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Author Topic: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2  (Read 82820 times)

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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #240 on: November 28, 2018, 11:49:45 AM »
https://archive.org/details/cats2018-11-21.avantCA14mix

This is my first attempt at more than 2 channels, though I’m not sure it qualifies as OMT exactly, due to not going XY in the center.  Listening back to either stereo pair in isolation gives me a good idea of the benefits/detriments of spaces omnis vs near coincident and also how the combination of the two can sound *much* better. I feel confident saying this is my best recording to date.

I ran the CK1 cards in DIN to try out a different configuration in a venue I’ve run the hypers in DINa. Listening back there’s still a somewhat noticeable hole in the middle, though not as wide of one as with the spaces omnis alone. I may try an XY configuration for the CK1s next time in hopes of addressing that more fully. As it turns out the hypers in DINa sounded better then the cards in DIN, though I wasn’t running in the exact same spot and the few foot difference also placed my center mics right up against a sound deadening pad on the wall, whereas last time I was 1-2” off the wall.

Sadly I didn’t take a picture of the rig in the wild, but I ran the CA14s spread about a meter on this antenna apparatus that I found at the local salvage yard (Urban Ore in Berkeley for any of you Bay Area folks). It seems to be designed to be placed into a socket of an analog TV. There was a ribbon attached which I snipped off. I just taped the contraption to my stand with gaff tape. I need to find a more elegant solution, as this was a major hassle to take apart.
+T              running a crossed pair in the middle affords you a "safety pair" as well as gives some center imaging. When we run the hypers in the middle we have been going at about 50-60 degrees as opposed to a 90 or 110 (As recommended by Lee).
I listened to most of this recording at work on cheap speakers yesterday. It sounded very fine to my ears. Very "open" and crisp in the high end and not too much bass. good job and thanks for sharing!

quote from: ycoop
Quote
Can someone explain the exact idea of a “safety pair”?
It is covered in some of the detailed descriptions gutbucket has in these OMT threads; however, I use the term to mean having a "standard" coincident configuration of 90 or 110 degrees (typically in cardiod or hypercardiod) in the middle of a 4/6/8 channel OMT with spaced omnis on the outside. This way, you have a "safety" pair of mics to use/listen to in case you do not wish to add the omnis in the mix. Once you use a coincident configuration of less than 90 (in our case it's been 50-60 degrees) then when processing/ listening to the coincident pair by itself does not supply the typical/expected stereo imaging OR to do MS processing on the center pair.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 03:55:23 PM by rocksuitcase »
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Offline heathen

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #241 on: November 28, 2018, 11:55:17 AM »
Can someone explain the exact idea of a “safety pair”?

Let's say your split omnis don't come out right, for whatever reason.  Maybe one of the mics dies or something.  If your center pair is configured in such a way that it can make a good recording on its own, that center pair could be called your "safety pair."  Something like XY at 50-60* might not qualify as a safety pair (MIGHT...I'm not making blanket statements here) because on its own the recording may be too mono or narrow for some tastes.  If the center pair is XY at 90* or DIN/ORTF/etc it might stand up on its own better.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #242 on: November 28, 2018, 12:03:00 PM »
Can someone explain the exact idea of a “safety pair”?

Let's say your split omnis don't come out right, for whatever reason.  Maybe one of the mics dies or something.  If your center pair is configured in such a way that it can make a good recording on its own, that center pair could be called your "safety pair."  Something like XY at 50-60* might not qualify as a safety pair (MIGHT...I'm not making blanket statements here) because on its own the recording may be too mono or narrow for some tastes.  If the center pair is XY at 90* or DIN/ORTF/etc it might stand up on its own better.
The two words you use which I do not are the key: "Might" and "tastes". This is mainly about how your tastes of listening/mixing are; and any of these less than 90' coincident stereo pair "might" not "stand up on its own better". 
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Offline kuba e

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #243 on: November 28, 2018, 01:44:03 PM »
I noticed the hole when switching between omnis alone and both pairs. The hole narrows, but I can still hear it with the center pair included.
Yes, a hole in the center of the stereo image is probably in a wide spaced omni, but you filled it with a near spaced pair. This is one of the main Gutbucket instructions.

I never had disturbing hole in a recording of near spaced pair in FOB. When recording onstage, a wide stereo image can be created with a hole in the center. You can fill the center with e.g. vocals from sbd feed. I always enjoyed an onstage wide stereo image. It reminded me of some recordings from 60's. All instruments, including drums, were fully right or left and vocals in the middle. There is also a positive bleed between the instruments. These recordings sound very lively to me.

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #244 on: November 28, 2018, 07:37:28 PM »
As mentioned by the others, "safety pair" means just one microphone pair used in isolation without the others will produce an acceptable recording on its own.  There are two motivations behind that as I see it:  1) A way to salvage the recording if/when something goes wrong with the other channels.   2) Retaining a "known good" 2-channel microphone configuration reference setup for comparison with the "whole enchilada OMT arrangement" in order to make sure the OMT complications are worthwhile.  This second aspect can obviously be achieved with a second recording setup (two extra microphones and recording channels), but might also be a 2-channel subset of the OMT setup.

Usually "safety pair" in the first sense implies that pair is setup in a typical stereo-pair configuration.  But that needn't necessarily be the case.  How much insurance do you need to feel comfortable? Quite often I find that all pairs making up the OMT can be considered "safety pairs" in this way to different degrees, differing in how much work is needed afterwards to mold it into something listenable on its own, and what level of quality is acceptable for such a situation.  It's dependent on your tolerance for risk, your familiarity with the setup, how oddball you want to push things, the number of channels you want to run, and how comfortable you feel with the mixing side of things.  As the channel count increases, redundancy and post-manipulation possibilities also increase.  A 3' spaced omni pair can work fine on its own and of course an X/Y or M/S pair can too.  As for myself, I'd not hesitate to make a Mid/Side re-adjustment to "widen-up" a narrow-angled X/Y "safety-pair" in order to get it sounding as good as possible.  Yet as long as it was setup correctly with close coincidence, I have little concern over dialing in enough additional Side for a 50-degree PAS X/Y pair to sound as wide as a 90-degree X/Y pair.  The fact that the 50-degree pair was presumably Pointed At Stacks is an advantage which I suspect might result in better sound after such an adjustment (this would make for a very interesting comp!).  To my way of thinking, when recording from a distance directness is more primary and cannot be recovered, whereas width is easier to manipulate, less ephemeral, and carries somewhat less perceptual importance.  This is a set of compromise tradeoffs of a similar nature to the ones I'll mention below with regards to near-spaced configurations.

Actually I also consider center front-facing / rear-facing microphones as a "safety pair" in this sense, and have used them as such when I've had problems which rendered the other channels unusable.  That pushes this first aspect of "safety pair", but in this way even just a singular forward-facing center microphone serves as a "mono safety".  A mono recording may be preferable for some folks and some recordings, and the all important direct/reverberant balance can still be adjusted somewhat via the balance between the front and rear-facing microphones.  It's sort of like varying the polar pattern for a mono pickup from that of the forward-facing microphone through wider patterns to omni (and onward to increasingly rear-facing directionality until reaching the pattern of the rear-facing microphone if the level of the rear channel were to be brought up higher than the front - unlikely in practice, but entirely possible).  This variation of the center forward facing microphone pickup pattern is one way of thinking about what mixing in various amounts of a single rear-facing microphone does, and ignoring the spacing between front and back-facing microphones, is similar to how a dual diaphragm microphone with electrically switched patterns works.  But it doesn't have to be mono. We can do the Mid/Side stereoization trick of using the rear-facing channel as Side in a Mid/Side converter to derive a stereophonic quality, even if that doesn't incorporate left/right directional imaging but rather stereo width, spaciousness and depth. That avoids the odd Left/Right lopsided stereo output which would result from the front microphone channel routed left and the rear microphone routed right, which is typically how monitoring that pair directly sounds - although believe it or not I have a few recordings which actually work well that way.


The second, known-good setup "safety pair" for comparison thing is super valuable for making truthful assessments of what is working and what isn't.  And it's similarly valuable for confirming forward progress in determining which OMT variation is satisfactory, and whether that remains sufficient for you or if you want to push it further.  I've written a lot about this comparison aspect in these threads and don't want to repeat myself too much, but I will say that listening closely, hearing the differences for yourself, identifying what is working better and what isn't, and figuring out what to correctly attribute that to is key.  It's great if the "known good" 2-channel arrangement dovetails nicely with OMT so that you don't need to run redundant channels, but I caution folks from getting overly saddled with trying to "build up OMT" around a favorite near-spaced configuration.  One way of thinking about near-spaced 2-channel stereo configurations is that they work well partly because they represent various "best-compromises" between 2-channel coincident and 2-channel spaced configurations. I hear those compromises inherent in near-spaced configurations as very appropriate, good and necessary, yet neither subtle nor minor once exposed by their absence.  OMT is in effect a way of working around those compromises, and us most effective when it breaks free of them. 

Yes OMT introduces alternate compromises in increased channel interactions and phase relationships (and appropriate mixing requirements) and these can be as egregious as those of coincident, near-spaced or widely-spaced 2-channel configurations or even worse.  Yet when dealt with appropriately I find the compromises can be made to be considerably less significant, such that to my ear at least, a good OMT arrangement is often better suited to the recording and reproduction of live-performance music, which is in itself an oddball recording endeavour!

It is difficult to determine what is really most appropriate and what might be better than our current conception of good and best.  A lot of that comes from training one's ear as well as re-calibrating one's expectations over time.  As tapers, we've made and listened to years, decades-worth of live recordings.  We know what works well in a 2-microphone/2-channel paradigm, what sounds good to us, and our brains are trained to hear recordings which convey appropriate traits as good.  In this context we even hear necessary compromises as being good rather than inherent to 2-channel recording.  We can add a second pair of mics and it may sound better, yet we are judging that based on all our ingrained expectations.  It's hard to know what could be even better, and at the same time we are not well attuned to the new compromises our brains are less familiar with, which escape notice until we become familiar enough with the new paradigm to begin to recognize them. 

I can now listen to a recording and be completely satisfied with it in every way, a great recording, yet know that it could be still better (not necessarily made by me).  Center solidity and ambient envelopment are in this category for me.  We are so used to these things being a trade off against each other, sort of a balancing act, that we accept compromises in these things without even being aware of it.  Once the compromising constraints tying them together are eliminated and exploited we can recognize that it sounds sounds better, yet that still doesn't re-calibrate our brain to make that our "new normal" for a long time.  It's almost like we get surprised by how good it sounds when we do come across it again.  I aim to re-calibrate my unconscious expectations toward more "and's" between qualities and away from unstated "or's" - center solidity that surprises me in its solidity in combination with holographic directional stereo imaging, in combination with deep and wide envelopment along with the most appropriate direct/reverberant balance, timbre, and presence.  I want all that, even though I know I don't fully recognize what it can be if fully realized.

All this OMT stuff is just a method to try and get closer to that.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 07:59:18 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #245 on: November 29, 2018, 05:19:03 PM »
https://archive.org/details/cats2018-11-21.avantCA14mix

This is my first attempt at more than 2 channels, though I’m not sure it qualifies as OMT exactly, due to not going XY in the center.  Listening back to either stereo pair in isolation gives me a good idea of the benefits/detriments of spaces omnis vs near coincident and also how the combination of the two can sound *much* better. I feel confident saying this is my best recording to date.

I ran the CK1 cards in DIN to try out a different configuration in a venue I’ve run the hypers in DINa. Listening back there’s still a somewhat noticeable hole in the middle, though not as wide of one as with the spaces omnis alone. I may try an XY configuration for the CK1s next time in hopes of addressing that more fully.

I had a chance to listen to this a bit last night. Congrats on a quite nice sounding recording. Your reasoning is good on using X/Y to fill the center, solidly. The X/Y forte of sharp directional imaging with a rock solid center does exactly that.  Meanwhile the spaced omnis provide the open, spacious, natural sound and diffuse ambient pickup that X/Y cardioids tend to lack.  This gets to the heart of the "near-spaced compromise" I mention above.  A large part of the sonic attractiveness of near-spaced 2-channel configurations to my way of thinking is that they provide some degree of both those traits in a good, reasonable balance.  Yet when we record more than 2 channels with the full intent of using all of those channels together (interdependently), we can more fully optimize each pair for one or the other of those contradictory roles.  Each is then setup to provide the aspect it is best at, so that the combination ends up being less of a compromise than a single 2-channel configuration carefully designed to "split the differences" each way. 

What makes a setup truly "OMT" or not is a good question. In my opinion it has to do with exactly that trend- pushing each pair of microphones used in the OMT array towards specialization. Lots of folks run spaced omnis in combination with their prefered "main" 2-channel setup in the center. It would be presumptive to claim all those as OMT setups.  To me what unquestionably pushes a setup into OMT-land is when none of the microphone configurations which make up the entire array are "standard" anymore.  I consider it fully oddball once I move to setting up all of the microphones making up the array differently than I would have if the pairs were to be used on their own.  PAS X/Y pair narrower than I would have chosen for an X/Y pair on it's own, omnis wider than I'd probably want on their own, the front/rear-facing center-pair thing, etc.  Each pair shifted away from its "standard optimal setup" towards a particular specialization.  In so doing each component does it's thing better, and equally important to getting it right- stays out of the way of what the other is doing better.

In that way, to really take advantage of OMT it becomes necessary to move away from a traditional "safety pair" fully optimized for best stereo on its own as an integral part of the array.  Kyle talks about that here-

Lately, we have given up on the "safety pair" concept for two reasons:
1] We know what OMT will do for us and have determined the center channels, if coincident, at 50-60 degrees works best for the OMT mix but is NOT a safety pair at that point.
2] We typically run another set of mics and/or deck so that becomes our "safety recording".
That said, we have run 90' coincident crossed cards and hypers (AKG ck61, or ck3) several times as the middle pair of a 4chOMT setup and IMO this works a bit "better" mixing wise than the front/rear facing cards.
THAT said, I still prefer a "standard 4chOMT consisting of spaced omnis with front|rear cards or hypers. (Lately we have been doing the front mic a hyper (ck3) and rear a cardiod (ck61)
Finally, I have done exactly ZERO attempts at MS adjusting of any of our center channels; it's just not my thing.

^I've long thought about the conceptual beauty of an arrangement of 3 super/hypers that have nulls at 120 and 240 degrees off-axis, setup coincidentally such that the nulls of each microphone are aligned with the primary lobe of each of the other two microphones.  More specifically, a forward facing 120 degree wide X/Y pair plus a third facing directly rearward.  Conceptually, the way the primary lobes and nulls align, it's much like Blumlein 90-degree crossed figure-8s, but three channels instead of two.  Someone with a Mixpre3 wanting to run a very compact coincident setup should try this!

If 5 channel recorders were a thing, I'd be tempted to try it in the center between wide-spaced omnis from an optimal location.  But then I'd probably narrow the front pair angle to PAS for better "full array" optimization as mentioned above. 

Exactly why I use coincident XY for the center.  With all these channels, I've been experimenting with including wide PAS cards lately, to get the "sizzle" I sometimes need.

^
This!  More of the same.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #246 on: November 29, 2018, 05:19:26 PM »
Sadly I didn’t take a picture of the rig in the wild, but I ran the CA14s spread about a meter on this antenna apparatus that I found at the local salvage yard (Urban Ore in Berkeley for any of you Bay Area folks). It seems to be designed to be placed into a socket of an analog TV. There was a ribbon attached which I snipped off. I just taped the contraption to my stand with gaff tape. I need to find a more elegant solution, as this was a major hassle to take apart.

Try using a Wintech clamp.  The part of the antenna which fits into the TV socket will fit into the stud-receiver of the clamp (secured with the thumb-screw) and the clamp can be quickly and easily attached to the stand.  I know several tapers who use that exact setup.  Simple, compact, easy.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline heathen

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #247 on: November 29, 2018, 05:24:48 PM »
^I've long thought about the conceptual beauty of an arrangement of 3 super/hypers that have nulls at 120 and 240 degrees off-axis, setup coincidentally such that the nulls of each microphone are aligned with the primary lobe of each of the other two microphones.  More specifically, a forward facing 120 degree wide X/Y pair plus a third facing directly rearward. 

Can't we basically achieve this with ambisonic mics? 
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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #248 on: November 30, 2018, 09:20:58 AM »
^Yes, good point.  Once I reinstall Samplitude I should try that with a Tetramic recording to see how it works out.

It's partly a conceptual thing which arose from thinking about the optimal arrangement of just 3 channels.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #249 on: November 30, 2018, 06:17:59 PM »
Trying again, with another impromptu rigging.

Poway Symphony Orchestra
2018-11-18 sunday

DPA4060 pair as 16' spaced pair, with APE response balls, and mics forward @0º just emerging from the balls, with grids only exposed.
Line Audio CM3 pair as 0º forward and 180º rearward, from the stage lip, center.
Mics arranged along the stage lip edge.
Tas. DR70D 24.96

And, also Gude Head binaural stream_ R09HR 24.96 from 1st row DFC

these are shareable, and will be going to LMA

Thanks Mike!  I gave this a somewhat more in depth listen this afternoon while catching up at work, and was able to compare it with your Gude-head binaural recording. That clarinet solo piece is fantastic.

On first listen to your OMT4 mix (brief, distracted, just prior to leaving for Thanksgiving) I noted some instability of the stereo image, but didn't note that so much today even though I listened for it (less brief, still between work distractions, and a bit fatigued). As I recall, I heard that in two ways- Notes of different frequency ranges "shifting around" in their apparent positions in the solo clarinet piece; and a sort of "three spotlight" front image distribution, with no "hole in the middle" problem but rather strong left center and right positions with oh-so-slightly less-strong regions between them in the full orchestra pieces.  Not two holes so much as much as three perceptually highlighted regions which could us a tough more blending between them.  Both times I was listening through cheap Samsung phone headphones straight out of my work computer.

I intended to listen more specifically for that by contrasting your OMT4 mix against your Gude-head binaural recording today, and those imaging aspects while there seem comparatively less significant. What stood out more strongly was the difference in weight and timbre, with the OMT4 mix having increased weight, frequency extension top and bottom, clarity and presence, while the binaural sounds more midrange-centered and ambient, yet with a smooth, stable image.  I also liked the increased center/forward presence of the OMT mix which is especially apparent when the soloist speaks briefly before his piece.

I definitely notice the increased width of the the bass and ambience in the OMT mix, which is something I'm rather attuned to and like.   I suspect center-position X/Y imaging might distribute the image of the orchestral pieces more smoothly and keep the note locations during the clarinet solo from shifting about, aligning the low frequency width from the omnis with higher frequency direction imaging from the X/Y pair, and I'd be especially tempted to try that between the wide-spaced of the omnis.  Not sure if sacrificing the rear-facing channel to do X/Y center with the available four channels would be better or not, but I think so in this case.  Worth a try next time if you want to try a variation on this.

Really, this is just critiquing and picking nits in pursuit of perfection.  Your recording sounds great and I really enjoyed listening to it.  Let's just say that these imperfections of the recording itself are easily overshadowed by intonation issues in the string and horn sections (Don't tell the orchestra!)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2018, 06:27:27 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline kuba e

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #250 on: December 02, 2018, 07:37:18 AM »
Thanks Gut for your review of Mike's recording. It is always very helpful when somebody point at the area that deserves attention. When we know where and what to look for, everything is easier.

Let me make a small turn to yoga. One part of yoga teaches concentration on fine objects (e.g. elements and their properties). The more we are sensitive, then we can practice with the smoother objects. But to find these fine objects, somebody must point to it. We would not know where and what to look for. But when we find it, it's already simple.
I remember one of my recordings. It sounded average for me, I did not see anything totally wrong. Then somebody told me that bass resonates there. He was right, suddenly it was there. But before that it did not exist for me. I remember until now what a surprise was, and how I then clearly heard it. It helped me back in yoga, I realized how important it is to point to.

I am sorry for the turn, back to Mike's recording.

Notes of different frequency ranges "shifting around" in their apparent positions in the solo clarinet piece;
What causes it? Does that mean that clarinet sounds wide?

Really, this is just critiquing and picking nits in pursuit of perfection.  Your recording sounds great and I really enjoyed listening to it.  Let's just say that these imperfections of the recording itself are easily overshadowed by intonation issues in the string and horn sections (Don't tell the orchestra!)
Mike, do not worry. If you will ask yoga master or master of martial arts, how long he will practice, their answer is: Until I die.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 07:39:25 AM by kuba e »

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #251 on: December 02, 2018, 08:06:19 AM »
Thanks, Lee, Kuba.
The clarinetist stood in one place, but, waved his instrument from right to left in somewhat exaggerated fashion..  That is the intonation, in regard to the clarinetist. You can literally hear him swaying in the recording.
When he soloed, during his encore, he came out onto the stage, from conductors left side, to center stage, and out by 5' additionally.
I had a comment about the conductors voice wandering. He paces the entire width of the stage array in his preambles, and is caught at full width by the array. He is also speaking thru a vocal mic, via PA.

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #252 on: December 02, 2018, 11:42:09 AM »

I just realized after following along in the thread that I used to do a version of this quite often in this one particular room that sounded muddy. I ran Peluso subcards (usually 30cm or more and about 75 degree angle so just barely wider than the line array) with a single forward facing hyper in the center all lined up on a single bar. The hyper gave me the directionality that I was craving and the subcards gave a nice balanced tone but often had too much "room". Best of both worlds.

Every once in a while nowadays I'll run both pairs of mics I typically use - Schoeps hypers and MBHO wide cards in medium size venues if I'm close enough. I usually just decide which source I like best and go with that rather than try to mix the two - although I have done a low pass on the HOs and added in the bass since the more open pattern gives that subwoofer rumble... :headphones:
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

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"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #253 on: December 03, 2018, 02:35:57 PM »
^ Your setup with the wide/spaced subcards + hypercard in the middle is right in line with these techniques intended to "combine the best of both worlds".  Nothing particularly "new under the sun" with regards to each of the component techniques used to build these arrays.  It's more about thinking through well-reasoned combinations of ideas and managing things to prevent problems as the  interdependent variables increase.  And if a straight pair or combination of two standard setup pairs provides everything you want, no reason to do the unusual.  ~Rumble on!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

jcable77

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Re: Oddball microphone technique (OMT) - part 2
« Reply #254 on: December 04, 2018, 11:24:57 PM »
GB, i have an idea and am wondering your thoughts. Id like to run ms on stage with one Adk figure 8 as side, an akg 481 as mid, and maybe the other Adk in front of that in omni. Basically looking like the 481 is piggiebacking the adk8 with the capsule almost resting on the Adk,  with the omni directly in front of that. Ill also have hyprecards and board about 40ft back at the board. Is the omni overkill you think? And if folks by the stage are somewhat chatty is ms going to be overwhelmed by crowd noise? My first try at ms. Really interested at trying more blumlein and ms oddball setups.

 

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