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Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: ChadC on August 03, 2019, 03:37:33 PM

Title: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: ChadC on August 03, 2019, 03:37:33 PM
I am wondering if there may be an updated and easier to follow guide for mixing SBD and AUD recordings to make a matrix. I tried following the guide linked below but it is beyond my comprehension. Thanks

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=103031.msg1373822#msg1373822 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=103031.msg1373822#msg1373822)
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: hoserama on August 03, 2019, 09:10:02 PM
Do they need to be time aligned? Or were they recorded onto the same recorder?
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: ChadC on August 03, 2019, 11:30:52 PM
Do they need to be time aligned? Or were they recorded onto the same recorder?

Different recorders so they need to be time aligned. I managed to align them in Audacity but they become more out of sync as time progressed. Is there a quick way to snap them into sync throughout the whole recording?
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: ycoop on August 04, 2019, 12:17:05 AM
Do they need to be time aligned? Or were they recorded onto the same recorder?

Different recorders so they need to be time aligned. I managed to align them in Audacity but they become more out of sync as time progressed. Is there a quick way to snap them into sync throughout the whole recording?

The different recordings also have different clocks, which differ enough from one another that you can audibly hear the difference. This difference becomes more pronounced over time, as the one clock  gains more and more ground on the other.

The method posted above is the only way I know of to fix this. Essentially you’re taking the two tracks of slightly different length and squishing/stretching  one to make it the same length as the other. This involves determining the % difference in total samples (which correlates with time of the recorders were sampling  at the same rate) and adjusting the length of one track by that difference to keep them aligned through the entire duration of the two recordings. I hope that explanation helps, maybe the process outlined above will make more sense to you.
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: hoserama on August 04, 2019, 04:09:12 AM
https://youtu.be/MOz2GUdL_vw

I did a Youtube tutorial on time alignment using Adobe Audition 3.0/CC. If you're doing an AUD/SBD, you may not have to be as precise as I was in the video (multiple IEM sources). But it'll still get you through the process. Most challenging part will be finding the best sync points.
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: rippleish20 on August 04, 2019, 10:57:23 AM
Even if they are recorded on the same device they have to be time aligned (if the microphones were on stage the tiime difference may be small but I often see minor time differences in this scenario). If they were recorded on differences devices, you may have to stretch one of them to match the other.

I use Reaper and the process is super easy in it's most basic form. I sometimes split all the tracks and spend more timing panning and setting levels, but at worst you just drag each stereo recoding into Reaper and then time align them by looking at the audio and aligning them by looking for part of the waveform where you can match the two recordings.  There is a nudge tool and you nudge one of them relative to the other. If the microphones were in the audience its roughly a millisecond per foot (from the stage)
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: nulldogmas on August 04, 2019, 12:03:53 PM
If that step-by-step instruction above seems too complicated, the basic principle is: Mark the same two points in the show in both recordings, measure the time distance between them, divide one length by the other to get the ratio of the two, then either slow the recording that's shorter or speed up the one that's longer by that ratio to get them to match.

The trickiest part is finding the exact spots to use as markers: a snare hit is usually good since it's a nice sharp peak, but it could be anything that's easy to identify in both recordings. After that it's just simple math and the use of whatever pitch/tempo tool your editing software offers. (If you're not sure whether you should be multiplying or dividing by the ratio of the two, just try one or the other and see if the distance between the two markers ends up the same in both recordings — if not, go back and do it the other way instead.)
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: morst on August 04, 2019, 12:10:52 PM
I have a public spreadsheet on google docs that does the math for you, once you have located the two sync points, and know either the length of both sections, or the length of one and the difference in lengths. I suggest marking the start of each file after you find Sync 1, then marking them again after you establish Sync 2, to make it easy to find the difference in lengths. (look for stick clicks counting in a song, and magnify the tiny waves!)


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pQGfYwPgBFFzcY5m6aRj-Zbu9HsRumLy-tJB1d8Eufg/edit#gid=583050244


Download it so you can save to it.


I have posted detailed instructions on this website but don't have the link handy...
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: ChadC on August 07, 2019, 05:11:52 PM
Would anyone be interested in doing the mixes for me? I would be glad to compensate you for your time. I can send dropbox links to the files. The sets are already one big file. I just need them mixed then I can track them out.
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: beatkilla on August 07, 2019, 06:01:54 PM
Would anyone be interested in doing the mixes for me? I would be glad to compensate you for your time. I can send dropbox links to the files. The sets are already one big file. I just need them mixed then I can track them out.

I might what bands are these?
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: ChadC on August 07, 2019, 06:36:09 PM
Would anyone be interested in doing the mixes for me? I would be glad to compensate you for your time. I can send dropbox links to the files. The sets are already one big file. I just need them mixed then I can track them out.

I might what bands are these?

There are 3 shows I would like done.

Glass - 2002-08-09
https://archive.org/details/glass2002-08-09.flacf (https://archive.org/details/glass2002-08-09.flacf)

Phil Lesh and Friends - 2001-04-20
https://archive.org/details/2001-04-20.paf.neumann-bry.buford.4059.sbeok.flacf (https://archive.org/details/2001-04-20.paf.neumann-bry.buford.4059.sbeok.flacf)

Furthur - 2011-07-29
https://archive.org/details/Further2011-07-29.Further2011-07-29 (https://archive.org/details/Further2011-07-29.Further2011-07-29)
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: tim in jersey on August 27, 2019, 11:35:01 PM
If they were recorded on differences devices, you may have to stretch one of them to match the other.


RE: mixing SBD/AUD on two different devices...

Maybe I'm being a bit nit-picky, but shrinking the longer of the two tracks as opposed to stretching the shorter sounds better to my ears. I can live with tossing a few 1's and 0's in the dumpster as long as the end product sounds better.
Title: Re: How to mix SBD and AUD recordings?
Post by: morst on August 28, 2019, 03:22:15 AM
Maybe I'm being a bit nit-picky, but shrinking the longer of the two tracks as opposed to stretching the shorter sounds better to my ears. I can live with tossing a few 1's and 0's in the dumpster as long as the end product sounds better.
I've always felt that logically, I'd rather throw out some bits, than have the software make bits up out of its (undoubtedly well-intentioned) best guess!


I can't hear a difference though.