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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: jhfinn on January 19, 2013, 08:30:36 PM

Title: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on January 19, 2013, 08:30:36 PM
Interesting. Virtually no info available. Femto looks sweet though.

http://www.audioroot.fr/shop/preamplis-micro-7/femto-43013.html
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: myke2241 on January 20, 2013, 10:02:30 PM
that does look pretty sweet! any word on how they sound?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Marshall7 on January 20, 2013, 10:39:58 PM
It better be sweet for the price
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on January 21, 2013, 11:56:22 AM
The femto had a price yesterday but now it's gone, I think it was under 600,00€. Femto looks like just an updated version of the UPre. I researched the UPre and found a couple location sound houses in France renting them but none for sale.
I'm really curious how these sound.
I'm going to email audioroot and inquire about the Femto. I'll post here whatever I find out.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: myke2241 on January 21, 2013, 06:16:41 PM
600,00€, What!!!!! Why? i could see that if it was also a two channel mixer.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Marshall7 on January 22, 2013, 01:06:44 AM
"The FEMTO will be available in late february 2013"

They probably removed the price because you can't purchase it yet.  I think it was 560 EURO's.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on January 27, 2013, 12:33:29 PM
Heard back from Antoine at audioroot. First couple units have gone into production. Like his website says he plans to have tech specs and price available by the end of next month.  He did say the femto will be less expensive than the upre, but cost still undetermined. I'm curious too hear how this French made preamp sounds. I like the specs of the upre just not the price hoping the femto will be more reasonable.
Regards,
Jim
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on February 22, 2013, 09:44:04 AM
Hey now,
I was contacted by audioroot and the femto preamp is now available. Web page has been updated with more info. Price $645 USD and that includes shipping to US or Canada.
Who wants to be the Guinee pig??
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on February 23, 2013, 10:30:27 AM
Hey now,
I was contacted by audioroot and the femto preamp is now available. Web page has been updated with more info. Price $645 USD and that includes shipping to US or Canada.
Who wants to be the Guinee pig??

I asked audioroot if the femto used input or output transformers in the design since their previous model, Upre, has input transformers. Since the femto has XLR input and runs on 2x9v their simply wasn't room. I'm probably going to pick one up and see how it performs.
Regards,
Jim
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: pohaku on February 23, 2013, 10:39:31 PM
Hmmm.  Kind of looks like a Little Box with more elaborate metering and slightly better cosmetics, and at twice the price.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: pohaku on February 24, 2013, 12:19:48 AM
Oh god.  Now I need to think about a metric conversion for naming conventions. :P. I actually didn't really look at the size, mostly the layout.  I suppose it is a mid priced unit in the scheme of things.  Less expensive than a V3 or a USBPre2 (but with no ADC) and more expensive than a Tiny Box or a CA9200.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on February 24, 2013, 02:19:59 PM
Oh god.  Now I need to think about a metric conversion for naming conventions. :P. I actually didn't really look at the size, mostly the layout.  I suppose it is a mid priced unit in the scheme of things.  Less expensive than a V3 or a USBPre2 (but with no ADC) and more expensive than a Tiny Box or a CA9200.

This is more geared towards the ENG market and the price/specs and build design reflect that. I think its appropriately priced. Certainly not cheap but cost about what a sound devices mp2 did. Every preamp has its own flavor and I guess until someone tries it for what we do, we will never know if it worth it's price:-)

Regards,
Jim
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: pohaku on February 24, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
It does have enough gain to drive ribbons and dynamic mics.  Actually, you are right.  $645 for two channels of high gain, low noise preamp is pretty decent.  One channel of a typical 500 format preamp generally runs about that or more.  Interesting.  It is very cool that people design and manufacture this kind of stuff for our niche market.  I am interested to hear a real word review.  Lord knows I don't own enough preamps. ;D
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: pohaku on February 24, 2013, 06:35:21 PM
Which is, of course, why everyone and his brother has jumped into the 500 format business.  Used to be there was just API and Aphex, and that was it.  John Hardy was modular, but not 500 form.  Now, I've lost count of the number of different manufacturers and models out there, with no end in sight.  I've got five of them, bought pretty early on, but haven't seen the need to buy more.  In addition, IMHO, the audible difference between many of them is negligible, despite advertising claims.  That said, if you have AC power access and the space, it is nice to have a full lunchbox of good pres to use for your front end if you are rolling open.  I do find the Femto, Church Audio and Little Box/Tiny Box gear very attractive because they are small and self contained.  Even less to schlep around and cart to a gig.  While there may be different design priorities at work with them, there seems to be no material down side if you take those into account when matching gear to the venue and artist.  Certainly the "studio" market is a bigger pond that the location recording/tapir market, but it is a lot more crowded too.  I'm glad you and Chris can make this niche market work for you.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: pohaku on February 24, 2013, 09:54:26 PM
Hah!  True that.  Especially these days.  The number of truly commercial studios has shrunk significantly.  As a hobbyist who has spent stupid money on gear, just because I can, it is interesting to watch the current recording market dynamics.  Outside of a drum room, most local musicians I know either record at home or at a home studio operated by another musician.  I loan out a lot of my gear to friends for their recording projects, simply because I have a much better day job and can afford gear to which they wouldn't otherwise have access.  I don't charge for it, it's my small contribution to the local music scene since I have more gear than talent myself.  So, as you so perceptively note,  cost isn't really a driving factor for me or them in choosing gear.  I certainly don't look at it from an ROI perspective.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: HazyShadeofWinter on March 02, 2013, 01:45:28 AM
It's more midbox sized though.  I kinda think the title is funny, because my naming convention would put midbox at milli, littlebox at micro, and tinybox at pico.  Femto ought to be smaller :D  It's very attractive though and the OLED screen is beautiful.

Keep in mind that I had a very different design philosophy.  Most portable pres are an attempt to run a studio-grade preamp off of batteries, so they have lots of gain (70dB for the Femto) and very low input noise (-129dBu).  Those specs always come at a cost; either input transformers ($, space, and weight) or power.  So Femto idles at 31mA, presumably at 18V (batteries in series, so they aren't hotswappable?), that's 558mW, vs. about 90mW for a tinybox.  The Femto is also spec'ed at 67mA (1.2W) with a pair of CMCs, those draw 4mA each, for 384mW.  So that's about 65% efficient on their phantom conversion circuit; tinybox actually exceeds that a bit, around 70%.

Thus, they end up with a six hour stated runtime for 2x 9V (11.3Wh--it should be longer at nine hours given 1.2W) with the CMCs.  tinybox would manage over eight hours with the same load--but tinybox also has a low-volt phantom option which can run CMCs for over twice as long.

So why spend the power?  Again, for high gain bandwidth and low noise.  That is of benefit if you are using quiet mics on quiet sources.  That's why I have a low-noise amp option on tinybox, which doesn't quite hit the Femto's noise spec; -129dBu is impressively quiet.

I feel embarrassed to ask this question given that you seem to be the person who makes and sells the tinybox, but would you say that for the lowest possible noise at high gain, the Femto seems like the better option?

I understand that one sacrifices size, battery life and initial cost, but from a purely sound engineering perspective, would you say the Femto excels?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: HazyShadeofWinter on March 05, 2013, 05:34:05 AM
Jon,

Thank you for the thorough explanation.

Adam
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on April 16, 2013, 04:37:08 PM
Cool thread. I'm dying to hear a LB/TB vs. femto comp :)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TSNéa on April 17, 2013, 01:12:11 AM
If you are recording very quiet sources with low sensitivity microphones (ribbons, moving-coil dynamics), you might select the Femto.
+1. I think Jon explains perfectly how useful / useless a high gain is, depending on your microphones.

I am not an expert with dBv, dBV, dBu, etc. but I can read the specs of a microphone and understand that a sensitivity of 1.5 to 2.5 mV / Pa is very low vs a sensitivity of 10-15 mV / Pa... The first ones are those of a ribbon resp. dynamic microphone, the last ones are common for a condenser one... (I do not consider bandwidth, max level and distortion which can be really important though).
If I use correctly my "Unit Convertor", the difference between 1.5 and 15 mv / Pa is 20 dB in the output level of the mic in the same conditions...

I own an old Beyerdynamic M160, a ribbon microphone that was made to be on top of a boom to record live dialogs in the movies industry, feeding the preamps of a Nagra III or IV: you really want 60 to 70 dB in some circumstances, without noise!

You can download Unit Convertor from here : http://www.sonelec-musique.com/logiciels_freewares_unitconvertor.html
Sorry: it's in French but the numbers are maths!  ;)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TSNéa on April 17, 2013, 08:39:07 AM
Jon,

Th
"without noise" was just a way to be short, I agree with you!  ;)
I knew that ribbon (and dynamic) microphones had a self nois but didn't thought it was so high...
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TSNéa on April 17, 2013, 09:12:03 AM
Sorry, my last reply was sent without permission while I was still writing!

Jon,

Thank you for your very precise answer, as usual.
"Without noise" was just a way to be short and conceal my ignorance!  ;)

I knew that ribbon (and dynamic) microphones had a self noise but I didn't know it was that high.
Anyway, I would not put my M160 in front of any PA system in a loud concert...

Jon, you're a kind of Lucky Luke of the electronics: you draw your logarithmic scale faster than your shadow...
http://s62.photobucket.com/user/crimson15_photos/media/lucky_luke_3.jpg.html
 ;D
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on October 04, 2013, 12:23:39 PM
Ok, I ordered a femto, jhfinn and I will be doing some testings.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jbell on October 04, 2013, 05:16:02 PM
What site did you order it from??

Ok, I ordered a femto, jhfinn and I will be doing some testings.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on October 04, 2013, 07:41:40 PM
What site did you order it from??

Ok, I ordered a femto, jhfinn and I will be doing some testings.

Direct from audioroot

Audioroot.fr
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on October 04, 2013, 09:57:39 PM
I am very interested in hearing that with some schoeps
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on November 26, 2013, 02:42:07 PM
Jim, anything to say about the femto with schoeps?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on November 27, 2013, 12:20:37 PM
Jim, anything to say about the femto with schoeps?

Ok guys I've had a chance to play with this pre for a couple shows now and here's my thoughts.
First show I taped was a wash....it was also the first time using a edirol r44 and the recording occasionally overloaded(had the smooth dials on the recorder set well below 12). Otherwise the recording was fine but I won't distribute it for that reason.
Second time was for Wsp in NYC. Ran two rigs on the same stand about 30-40ft from stage 9ft high DFC.
Dpa4021(ortf)> sonosax sxm2> r44(ch1+2)
Schoeps mk4(ortf)> kc5> cmc5> audioroot femto(l)> r44(ch3+4)

First observation is that the femto had a hotter output. I always run my sonosax set to "lo" which is supposed to have a +6db-40db gain range. Treys femto is the "L" version which is also supposed to have a minimum +6db minimum gain.  The sonosax dials were just below 12 and the femtos were at 9. The peaks were identical on the recorder. Could this be because of the different mics? Both preamps have similar gain range but 12/9 is a big difference...no?
Hard to compare the two recording since different mics were used but overall I prefer the schoeps>femto. Both sound good but the schoeps>femto has a nice balance of high and lows where the dpa sounds flat in comparison. The schoeps>femto is brighter and just better balanced. I'm liking what I hear from the femto. The bass is nice and smooth yet punchy. Sounds very similar to the eaa psp2 I owned years ago.
The build quality is excellent. All metal powder coated case similar to the sound devices preamps. The multicolor LCD is nice as it gives you battery level displayed in volts, and also shows your input levels. You should get just over 6hrs on standard alkaline 9vlts. You can run an external 12-18v battery as well.
My only gripe is the inputs/outputs are on the bottom on the pre which makes it hard to run in a bag without putting unwanted pressure on your cables. Wish it was setup more like a sonosax where the batteries insert on the bottom and input/outputs on the sides. I'd also be willing to give up the 12-18v battery option and have a unbalanced 1/8in output in its place. When talking to audioroot the designer said simply no room for a mini output:-(
This box belongs to trey and will be going back to him shortly.
I like it enough I ordered one for myself and will have it in a few weeks.
Thanks to trey for letting me take a test drive before I decided to purchase.

Regards,
Jim




Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: stevetoney on November 27, 2013, 04:23:20 PM
Nice feedback...especially the part about how it sounds like a PSP2.  If you still say that after using it 10 or 15 times, that will be quite an endorsement.  I've listened to your Panic recording quite a bit now.  It's only one data point and unfortunately, with the venue being MSG, makes it kinda difficult to make any detailed conclusions.  But even with that, you can hear that this preamp has got some mojo living inside of it.  I'm looking forward to hearing more of it, especially something up close in a small club with good direct sound.  Your sample really makes me want to hear what the Upre sounds like. 
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on November 28, 2013, 06:46:14 PM
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: flipp on November 28, 2013, 07:48:41 PM
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd like to audition this but not the best time for me. Details in a PM, so if anyone else is interested don't hesitate on my account.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on November 30, 2013, 11:09:45 PM
I, too, would LOVE to try it Trey! but I have no clue when my next show will be :( Ill send you a txt when I find out tho ;)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on December 08, 2013, 10:57:01 PM
Trey, just wondering, did you order the minimum gain version at +6db, or the stock version at +16db ???

I would think that if stock, +16db is a good amount of minimum gain IMO, and could lead to clipping at very loud shows. I know the m148 is +20db, and the v2/v3 are at +10db at minimum gain, but I was just curious!

WHEN I do order one of these, I'm going to be sure to get the +6db minimum gain Femto ;D 8)

And the uPre has Input Transformers, for some really clean gain, but probably best at micing acoustic stuff ;)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on December 10, 2013, 10:16:56 AM
I have the low gain version.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on December 10, 2013, 03:41:11 PM
I have the low gain version.

That's awesome!I f I record anytime soon, I'll hit you up. If I go with tonedeaf, we could do some nice comps!I. Could do mk41>KCY>LB and mk4>KCY>pfa>femto and he runs mk241>LB and/or m934b>VMS 8)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: yates7592 on December 20, 2013, 02:15:31 PM
I enquired about the uPRE which seemed to meet my needs better. Apparently it is discontinued. They have a new version coming out early 2014 with digi out to coax in - might suit perfectly. Price will be circa 900 EUR unfortunately.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: achalsey on January 01, 2014, 05:37:59 PM
Picture of the loaned Femto and a brief (uneducated) first impression of it.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=166016.0

Really dug my experience with it.  I would agree with Jim though, the ins/outs on the bottom are a bit annoying.  Right angle stubby XLRs would work just fine though.

I will say I did not ask to use it so apologize for that.  Also, forgot to ask whose this even was, but Trey if it was yours: Thanks for lending it out!  It does seem like a very nice little pre. 


Allyn


Edit: Now with source!  https://archive.org/details/RRE2013-12-31.CK63.Femto.flac16
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TaperBryan on January 02, 2014, 12:24:37 PM
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd be up for trying out out if it's available.  I'm 99.9% most likely planning to tape Rusted Root later this month (01/17) and would be curious to run it w/ my rig. 

Shoot me a PM and let me know if it may be available.

Thanks, Trey!

Bryan
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on January 02, 2014, 02:08:45 PM
Just a heads up for those interested in his pre....it has a balanced out only via xlr(5)> 2x xlr(3). I tried patching a sony m10 and sony d50 out of this box and it was too hot of a signal for both decks. I've used it with a dr680 and a r44 with no problem. Both trey and myself have the femto(L) which is the lower gain version. I asked audioroot to engrave my pre with "6db" on the back so if I ever sell it in the future the new owner will know which version it is....audioroot had no problem with my special request and didn't charge extra for the engraving which was really cool.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd be up for trying out out if it's available.  I'm 99.9% most likely planning to tape Rusted Root later this month (01/17) and would be curious to run it w/ my rig. 

Shoot me a PM and let me know if it may be available.

Thanks, Trey!

Bryan
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on January 02, 2014, 06:47:01 PM
Just a heads up for those interested in his pre....it has a balanced out only via xlr(5)> 2x xlr(3). I tried patching a sony m10 and sony d50 out of this box and it was too hot of a signal for both decks. I've used it with a dr680 and a r44 with no problem. Both trey and myself have the femto(L) which is the lower gain version. I asked audioroot to engrave my pre with "6db" on the back so if I ever sell it in the future the new owner will know which version it is....audioroot had no problem with my special request and didn't charge extra for the engraving which was really cool.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd be up for trying out out if it's available.  I'm 99.9% most likely planning to tape Rusted Root later this month (01/17) and would be curious to run it w/ my rig. 

Shoot me a PM and let me know if it may be available.

Thanks, Trey!

Bryan

You tried running an XLR>1/8" cable into an m10? That's a HUGE bummer it's too hot for the m10 as that's what recorder I planned on using with mine when I get mine :(
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on January 03, 2014, 08:41:57 AM
Correct had a brand new xlr>mini gakcable made and signal was too hot.
Just a heads up for those interested in his pre....it has a balanced out only via xlr(5)> 2x xlr(3). I tried patching a sony m10 and sony d50 out of this box and it was too hot of a signal for both decks. I've used it with a dr680 and a r44 with no problem. Both trey and myself have the femto(L) which is the lower gain version. I asked audioroot to engrave my pre with "6db" on the back so if I ever sell it in the future the new owner will know which version it is....audioroot had no problem with my special request and didn't charge extra for the engraving which was really cool.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd be up for trying out out if it's available.  I'm 99.9% most likely planning to tape Rusted Root later this month (01/17) and would be curious to run it w/ my rig. 

Shoot me a PM and let me know if it may be available.

Thanks, Trey!

Bryan

You tried running an XLR>1/8" cable into an m10? That's a HUGE bummer it's too hot for the m10 as that's what recorder I planned on using with mine when I get mine :(
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on January 03, 2014, 12:44:49 PM
This sucks for the owner too

Correct had a brand new xlr>mini gakcable made and signal was too hot.
Just a heads up for those interested in his pre....it has a balanced out only via xlr(5)> 2x xlr(3). I tried patching a sony m10 and sony d50 out of this box and it was too hot of a signal for both decks. I've used it with a dr680 and a r44 with no problem. Both trey and myself have the femto(L) which is the lower gain version. I asked audioroot to engrave my pre with "6db" on the back so if I ever sell it in the future the new owner will know which version it is....audioroot had no problem with my special request and didn't charge extra for the engraving which was really cool.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd be up for trying out out if it's available.  I'm 99.9% most likely planning to tape Rusted Root later this month (01/17) and would be curious to run it w/ my rig. 

Shoot me a PM and let me know if it may be available.

Thanks, Trey!

Bryan

You tried running an XLR>1/8" cable into an m10? That's a HUGE bummer it's too hot for the m10 as that's what recorder I planned on using with mine when I get mine :(
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on January 03, 2014, 12:51:38 PM

Really dug my experience with it.  I would agree with Jim though, the ins/outs on the bottom are a bit annoying.  Right angle stubby XLRs would work just fine though.

I will say I did not ask to use it so apologize for that.  Also, forgot to ask whose this even was, but Trey if it was yours: Thanks for lending it out!  It does seem like a very nice little pre. 

Allyn


It is mine. I really wanted to hear it but didn't have anything local (or that I was willing to travel for) anywhere near the close future so I thought I would allow others to use thus allowing me to hear what it sounded like.

You are welcome Allyn. Although the unit was was loaned to jbell, I have no issues with you using it.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: hi and lo on January 03, 2014, 01:02:07 PM
Can someone elaborate on "too hot" for the M10? Does this literally mean the dial was at 0 and still overloading? Lower than the commonly prescribed 3-4 setting?

Something about the numbers just doesn't sit right with me. +6dB gain is not a lot. The PSP-2 is close to +20dB and I've run it into the M10 at loud shows, but having to set the dial on the M10 around 1. Tape sounded great, but there wasn't much headroom for anything louder. If they're telling you the femto can be set to as low as +6dB, then something's not right.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on January 04, 2014, 01:07:44 AM
If the combo is too hot, you could always get an attenuator made that goes from XLR>attenuator>1/8" cable made! But I hope that was just a weird issue, because I intend to run femto>m10 when I get mine! And ill be getting the 6db low gain version too!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on January 06, 2014, 10:33:53 AM
Appologies...looks like my xlr>mini cable is what's causing the issue. I tried to use it with other gear and same problem.
I successfully used a pair of xlr>rca with mini adapter and signal was fine. Sorry for the bad info.
Regards,
Jim


Correct had a brand new xlr>mini gakcable made and signal was too hot.
Just a heads up for those interested in his pre....it has a balanced out only via xlr(5)> 2x xlr(3). I tried patching a sony m10 and sony d50 out of this box and it was too hot of a signal for both decks. I've used it with a dr680 and a r44 with no problem. Both trey and myself have the femto(L) which is the lower gain version. I asked audioroot to engrave my pre with "6db" on the back so if I ever sell it in the future the new owner will know which version it is....audioroot had no problem with my special request and didn't charge extra for the engraving which was really cool.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd be up for trying out out if it's available.  I'm 99.9% most likely planning to tape Rusted Root later this month (01/17) and would be curious to run it w/ my rig. 

Shoot me a PM and let me know if it may be available.

Thanks, Trey!

Bryan

You tried running an XLR>1/8" cable into an m10? That's a HUGE bummer it's too hot for the m10 as that's what recorder I planned on using with mine when I get mine :(
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on January 07, 2014, 12:04:06 AM
Appologies...looks like my xlr>mini cable is what's causing the issue. I tried to use it with other gear and same problem.
I successfully used a pair of xlr>rca with mini adapter and signal was fine. Sorry for the bad info.
Regards,
Jim


Correct had a brand new xlr>mini gakcable made and signal was too hot.
Just a heads up for those interested in his pre....it has a balanced out only via xlr(5)> 2x xlr(3). I tried patching a sony m10 and sony d50 out of this box and it was too hot of a signal for both decks. I've used it with a dr680 and a r44 with no problem. Both trey and myself have the femto(L) which is the lower gain version. I asked audioroot to engrave my pre with "6db" on the back so if I ever sell it in the future the new owner will know which version it is....audioroot had no problem with my special request and didn't charge extra for the engraving which was really cool.
Regards,
Jim
Thanks Jim. Anyone else want to borrow?

I'd be up for trying out out if it's available.  I'm 99.9% most likely planning to tape Rusted Root later this month (01/17) and would be curious to run it w/ my rig. 

Shoot me a PM and let me know if it may be available.

Thanks, Trey!

Bryan

You tried running an XLR>1/8" cable into an m10? That's a HUGE bummer it's too hot for the m10 as that's what recorder I planned on using with mine when I get mine :(

Phew, that's good to hear!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: full_gallop on January 13, 2014, 03:52:21 AM
Hi all.
I have a Femto-L in excellent condition for sale. I'm in the EU.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TaperBryan on January 16, 2014, 11:09:14 PM
What does the HP on/off on the unit mean?  What does it do?  Should I run on or off? 

Running Trey's tomorrow night for Rusted Root.  Source will be: 483>Femto>661 (oade warm mod). 

Thought about running it in front of the V3.  But, didn't set it up in the bag to do so when I got stuff ready tonight.  Though, I may rig it up between bands tomorrow night to do so. We'll see...


Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Phil Zone on January 16, 2014, 11:56:18 PM
What does the HP on/off on the unit mean?  What does it do?  Should I run on or off? 

Running Trey's tomorrow night for Rusted Root.  Source will be: 483>Femto>661 (oade warm mod). 

Thought about running it in front of the V3.  But, didn't set it up in the bag to do so when I got stuff ready tonight.  Though, I may rig it up between bands tomorrow night to do so. We'll see...

HP is a high pass filter. So it would reduce bass basically. I think it is at 75 hz that the frq  would slowly become less present. So leave it on the off position then if need be work in post. Good luck
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Marshall7 on January 17, 2014, 12:33:53 AM


Thought about running it in front of the V3.  .

Why? 
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TaperBryan on January 17, 2014, 11:08:43 AM


Thought about running it in front of the V3.  .

Why?

no real reason...Ha.  The chances of that happening are very slim to none. 
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: twoodruff on January 17, 2014, 02:04:20 PM


Thought about running it in front of the V3.  .

Why?

Use the a>d of the V3 instead of 661?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Marshall7 on January 17, 2014, 03:58:38 PM


Thought about running it in front of the V3.  .

Why?

Use the a>d of the V3 instead of 661?

I guess that's possible.  My first thought was "why does he want to run 2 preamps?" :)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: F.O.Bean on January 25, 2014, 05:11:12 AM
Since the 661 has the Oade mod, Id just run Femto>661!!! I cant frickin wait to run that sucka with my schoeps too, so I know how it sounds in venues I normally record at! As soon as I pay some bills, Im getting a PFA and saving up for a Femto. I should hopefully have it before summer 8) And Im also getting the Low Gain version like Treys is!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TaperBryan on January 27, 2014, 10:00:57 AM
Quote
Since the 661 has the Oade mod, Id just run Femto>661!!!

that's what i ended up running...
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: stevetoney on January 27, 2014, 07:33:40 PM
Quote
Since the 661 has the Oade mod, Id just run Femto>661!!!

that's what i ended up running...

Got a link to a sample?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: carlbeck on January 27, 2014, 08:40:50 PM
I'd like to hear this too.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: TaperBryan on January 28, 2014, 12:00:24 PM
I haven't had time to track the show, yet.  But, will be happy to provide samples once done.  I'm hoping I can focus on that this week...
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: carlbeck on February 02, 2014, 01:32:39 PM
I'm really trying to figure out what this thing sounds like. The samples I've heard all sound different to my ears so I haven't been able to put a name to what I hear, I.e. Warm, transparent, fat or clean. It's interesting that those of you who have run this don't seem to have any way to explain it either. I guess at this point I'll just have to wait until I get it from Trey. Looks like a nice unit but it's odd that there seems to be no definition to its "house sound" This might be the first time I have seen a pre that acts like a chameleon with what ever mic's it's paired with!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jbell on February 02, 2014, 01:37:00 PM
If you are planning on running AKG actives you might want to check out Allyn's RRE NYE recording.  Sounds really good

https://archive.org/details/RRE2013-12-31.CK63.Femto.flac16

I'm really trying to figure out what this thing sounds like. The samples I've heard all sound different to my ears so I haven't been able to put a name to what I hear, I.e. Warm, transparent, fat or clean. It's interesting that those of you who have run this don't seem to have any way to explain it either. I guess at this point I'll just have to wait until I get it from Trey. Looks like a nice unit but it's odd that there seems to be no definition to its "house sound" This might be the first time I have seen a pre that acts like a chameleon with what ever mic's it's paired with!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: carlbeck on February 02, 2014, 01:42:47 PM
I did check it out & it sounded great but it's not the typical stuff I record. I also listened to the WSP show from NYC with the Schoeps. I was at the show & while I didn't tape it the recording sounds better than what it actually sounded like. The Femto sounds good, I'm just surprised by its sound, while not exactly neutral it doesn't seem to lend much coloration into the signal chain. It's an odd duck for sure!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: adnivo on February 23, 2014, 06:06:33 AM
Hi
How much is your Femto? I'm in EU

Hi all.
I have a Femto-L in excellent condition for sale. I'm in the EU.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: carlbeck on February 24, 2014, 05:01:26 PM
I'll be running this for a set at Ratdog to compare against my Aerco. Any idea what thebattery meter voltage is when it runs out of juice? My newish 9 volts are registering17.8.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jhfinn on February 24, 2014, 06:37:55 PM
I'll be running this for a set at Ratdog to compare against my Aerco. Any idea what thebattery meter voltage is when it runs out of juice? My newish 9 volts are registering17.8.

The longest I've run it so far was with Duracell 9v for 4hrs and it was reading somewhere around 15v. You can expect to get 6+hrs with a set of new alkaline batteries so no worries. I think it needs a minimum of 12v.
Regards,
Jim
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: carlbeck on February 25, 2014, 12:59:34 PM
I ran the Femto for the first set of Ratdog last night & the Aerco for the second set. Both sound excellent with Aerco being a little fatter in the bottom end. I have to equalize volume on both sets & then I will post them up accordingly. I have another night of Ratdog tomorrow night in a different venue where I will be doing the same thing. Overall though the Femto is a sweet little unit, I really like the sound with the AKG's.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: axomxa on February 27, 2014, 09:51:45 PM
I ran the Femto for the first set of Ratdog last night & the Aerco for the second set. Both sound excellent with Aerco being a little fatter in the bottom end. I have to equalize volume on both sets & then I will post them up accordingly. I have another night of Ratdog tomorrow night in a different venue where I will be doing the same thing. Overall though the Femto is a sweet little unit, I really like the sound with the AKG's.
Sharp looking too  8)  Looking forward to the comp.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: yates7592 on March 17, 2014, 05:06:07 AM
Does anyone have any experience with the uPRE? With the attenuation possible it could be useful for me. Apart from Femto's nice metering, are there any sonic differences that would suggest Femto is better than uPRE?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: flipp on March 17, 2014, 06:34:49 AM
The uPRE is out of production and it's replacement - the uPRE-MKII - won't be available til the end of the month at the earliest. From some email correspondence: "final assembly of the initial batch should start this week* and if all goes well first units should ship at the end of the month. Price will be announced once the product is ready for shipping."


* actual email said a "couple of weeks" and that was on March 4
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: yates7592 on March 17, 2014, 07:47:43 AM
^ Yes I also got that reply. uPRE MkII will have digital out and cost around EUR 800 plus tax.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: tgakidis on March 17, 2014, 11:00:09 AM
Does anyone know the power requirements (voltage ) and power connector tip size?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: carlbeck on March 17, 2014, 12:20:40 PM
Ted, I have Trey's unit, I believe it's a hirose connector but if you want to get together sometime we should before he sells it.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: tgakidis on March 17, 2014, 01:57:08 PM
Does anyone know the power requirements (voltage ) and power connector tip size?

Audioroot Femto / 12-18v / 4-pin Hirose Male connector / pin 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: flipp on October 28, 2014, 11:01:16 AM
Does anyone know the power requirements (voltage ) and power connector tip size?

Audioroot Femto / 12-18v / 4-pin Hirose Male connector / pin 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-)

Audioroot uPRE-MKII  /  9-18v  /  Hirose 4 pin male power plug 10A-7P-4P   /   pin 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on June 10, 2015, 10:03:36 PM
Appologies...looks like my xlr>mini cable is what's causing the issue. I tried to use it with other gear and same problem.
I successfully used a pair of xlr>rca with mini adapter and signal was fine. Sorry for the bad info.
Regards,
Jim



where you using the included cable and then a xlr > mini or did ted make a 5 pin xlr > mini?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jbell on June 10, 2015, 10:09:05 PM
Appologies...looks like my xlr>mini cable is what's causing the issue. I tried to use it with other gear and same problem.
I successfully used a pair of xlr>rca with mini adapter and signal was fine. Sorry for the bad info.
Regards,
Jim





where you using the included cable and then a xlr > mini or did ted make a 5 pin xlr > mini?

5pin XLR > 1/8 mini
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: dactylus on March 09, 2016, 06:19:38 AM
Does anyone know the power requirements (voltage ) and power connector tip size?

Audioroot Femto / 12-18v / 4-pin Hirose Male connector / pin 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-)

Audioroot uPRE-MKII  /  9-18v  /  Hirose 4 pin male power plug 10A-7P-4P   /   pin 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: phatdats on July 06, 2016, 12:46:02 AM
Tracking...
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: ccage on July 19, 2016, 08:08:53 PM
here's some recent pulls w femto and schoeps mk4 if folks want to check it out.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=587752
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=587312
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: AdamHuston on July 19, 2016, 08:19:20 PM
Thanks!   ;D
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: beatkilla on August 21, 2016, 09:48:11 PM
So are there any decided opinions on the flavor of the pre?

Transparent? Warm?
Any size comparison pics against the Sony PCM-M10?

Seems like no more discussion means the pre is no good for concert taping.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: flipp on August 22, 2016, 01:29:28 AM
So are there any decided opinions on the flavor of the pre?
Transparent? Warm?

Whick pre are you asking about, the FEMTO, or the uPRE?

Any size comparison pics against the Sony PCM-M10?
a couple scattered around ts; the uPRE thread ( http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=169341.0 ) and for the FEMTO - http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=166016.msg2072904#msg2072904 also one on audioroot's site of both a uPRE and an M10 which sometimes doesn't show up

Seems like no more discussion means the pre is no good for concert taping.

I wouldn't say that. My current usual setup is mics (Beyer803s, Neumann AK150s or MG270s) >uPRE, AES out >Oade W-mod FR2 AES in. I can't tell any difference in sound with the uPRE in the chain from when it's not. I leave it in because level adjustment is easier with the uPRE and is currently my only pre with AES out.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: if_then_else on August 22, 2016, 04:53:28 AM
Any size comparison pics against the Sony PCM-M10?

On-stage rig (incl. Femto + M10):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsxlin054sdtqmv/IMGP2602.JPG?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsxlin054sdtqmv/IMGP2602.JPG?dl=0)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dhuxdy5dgzrkeu/IMGP2600.JPG?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dhuxdy5dgzrkeu/IMGP2600.JPG?dl=0)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: beatkilla on August 22, 2016, 07:12:01 AM
Thanks for the pics.
I was talking about the Femto.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on February 08, 2017, 12:05:48 PM
anyone run the Femto with ak40's?  also looks like only one version now with min gain 10db.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jbell on February 08, 2017, 04:58:21 PM
You should be able to request the version the goes down to zero when you order one!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: if_then_else on February 09, 2017, 03:07:59 AM
anyone run the Femto with ak40's?  also looks like only one version now with min gain 10db

I run mine with Line Audio or MBHO mics and it's a great little preamp - but, yes, there's only one version with min gain 10dB, now.
Please see below for the reply to my initial enquiry that I got from Antoine Malnati.

Quote
* Si j'ai bien vu, la mixette "Femto" peut être alimentée par une prise Hirose-4P comme la SD mixpre-d. Est-ce correct?
Le FEMTO est livré en standard avec une fiche d'alimentation Hirose comme la mixpre-d
* Comment est-ce que la "Femto" réussit dans la comparaison directe avec la mixpre-d concernant le bruit propre de la mixette?
Le bruit ramené à l'entrée (EIN) du FEMTO est de 129 dbU @ gain max. Cette valeur est comparable à la mixpre-d.
 * J'ai lu sur le site taperssection.com qu'il y aurait au moins deux versions de la "Femto", une nommée "L" ("low gain") à une amplification minimale de 6dB et une autre version à 18dB. Par contre, sur votre site web, j'ai seulement trouvé une spécification qui parle de +10 à + 64dB. Est-ce que l'amplification minimale est customisable ou est-ce qu'il y en a effectivement plusieurs versions de la "Femto"?
Il n'existe plus qu'une seule version avec un gain min de 10dB.
 * Avec la mixpre-d j'ai dû utiliser un atténuateur de -15dB pour ne pas saturer le prámpli avec les micros externes (lors de mes enregistrements des concerts rock). Est-ce que l'emploi des atténuateurs externes serait nécessaire aussi avec la "Femto"? En ce cas, quel niveau d'atténuation serait recommandable?
Pour l'enregistrement de concerts rock un atténuateur sera indispensable. Une atténuation de -20dB est une bonne valeur.
  * J'ai lu que la "Femto" a une sortie symétrique sur XLR 5 broches. Est-ce que le câble de sortie ligne stéréo symétrique XLR5 -> 2 x TA3F qui accompagne la mixette est un câble standard (à remplacer facilement dans le cas d'un oubli ou une panne éventuelle) ou une version spéciale fabriquée par Audioroot?
Il s'agit d'un câble standard.
  * Est-ce que vous vendez aussi des câbles XLR5 -> 1/8" / 3.5 mm jack stéreo? En ce cas: quel serait le prix d'un tel câble?
Nous pouvons fournir ce type de câble au prix de 39 EUR (hors taxes)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on February 09, 2017, 10:05:38 AM
Thanks for the info!  I can't imagine 10db being too much gain.  Hell lots of the pre's are 20db fixed.

One thing that worries me ordering from France

Quote
International Shipping - items may be subject to customs processing depending on the item's declared value.
Sellers set the item's declared value and must comply with customs declaration laws.
 As the buyer, you should be aware of possible:
- delays from customs inspection.
- import duties and taxes which buyers must pay.
- brokerage fees payable at the point of delivery.


edit:  according to this site I won't have to pay anything extra but no idea how accurate it is.

https://www.dutycalculator.com

Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on March 13, 2017, 09:44:27 AM
My new Femto should be here Wed!!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: beatkilla on March 13, 2017, 04:25:45 PM
 :cheers:

Nice ,please post back here your thoughts when you have had a chance to run it.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on March 13, 2017, 04:42:44 PM
will do!   I plan to run it Saturday for a friends band but it's a horrible taping situation so I don't expect much.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: ccage on March 14, 2017, 12:04:39 PM
Welcome To Team Femto Datdork!!!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2017, 02:17:41 PM
so the femto landed and I can't use the thing!  the 5 pin xlr they included goes to mini xlr instead of standard.  :banging head:  I was planning on having ted make a better/smaller one anyway but now I can't even play with or use it this weekend.  Heading to guitar center to look for something to hold me over.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/datdork/2017-03-15%2012.07.56_zpsj8gflwds.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/datdork/media/2017-03-15%2012.07.56_zpsj8gflwds.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2017, 02:32:53 PM
edit:  nothing to see here.......
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: noahbickart on March 15, 2017, 03:12:30 PM
that's normal. mini xlr inputs tend to be male. Look at the SD recorders.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2017, 03:20:13 PM
Don't run an sd unit so had no idea.

Audioroot used to send the adapter with standard xlrs though.

edit:  I emailed them and they are sending the correct cable.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: yug du nord on March 15, 2017, 06:48:12 PM
^^It wouldn't to hard to chop off the mini-xlr's and replace them with full size XLR's.  If you don't want to do it, you might be able to find a local music/electronic repair shop that would do it for you.  Maybe even Guitar Center might do it??  Just make sure that you/they pay attention to the pin layout.
That might be your quickest option...
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2017, 07:03:56 PM
They are sending the correct cable.  It will be a back up anyway.  I need stubby right angle for my bag.  the straight one from them is 3.5 inches before the cable even moves.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on April 05, 2017, 12:33:50 PM
ak40 > nick mod lc3 > pfa > femto

https://archive.org/details/johnk2017-04-03.ak40.flac24


same but + SBD

https://archive.org/details/johnk2017-04-03.ak40.sbd.flac16
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on April 05, 2017, 08:19:28 PM
more femto

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181637.0
Title: Re: Audioroot femto
Post by: dactylus on April 06, 2017, 02:34:39 PM
My new Femto should be here Wed!!

Gordon did you order the Femto from France (eBay)?  Were there any customs fees?  Is there a USA distributor?

Did you power with 9V batteries or use an external battery for powering?
Title: Re: Audioroot femto
Post by: Gordon on April 06, 2017, 04:12:47 PM
My new Femto should be here Wed!!

Gordon did you order the Femto from France (eBay)?  Were there any customs fees?  Is there a USA distributor?

Did you power with 9V batteries or use an external battery for powering?

Ordered it directly from them via ebay.  Paid the $30 for FedEx International and had it in 9 days.  No custom fees at all.  My understanding is there is now an $800 threshold so it was well under that.

So far just using 9v's.  See my post here

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175100.60

Tested some new ones at home yesterday and got 9 hours!
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: dactylus on April 08, 2017, 07:17:53 AM
^
Thanks for the info!

Title: Re: Audioroot femto + uPRE MKII
Post by: dactylus on April 13, 2017, 09:09:51 AM
^
Thanks for the info!

I ordered a Femto yesterday.  Looking forward to running this in a week or two...

I also inquired about the uPRE MKII.  The uPRE MKII is currently unavailable.  Antoine does not expect this pre to be back in stock for 6 to 8 weeks.
List price for the uPRE MKII is 795 EUR.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + uPRE MKII
Post by: pohaku on April 13, 2017, 09:54:14 AM
^
Thanks for the info!

I ordered a Femto yesterday.  Looking forward to running this in a week or two...

I also inquired about the uPRE MKII.  The uPRE MKII is currently unavailable.  Antoine does not expect this pre to be back in stock for 6 to 8 weeks.
List price for the uPRE MKII is 795 EUR.

Looks like you will be having quite the pre collection after the Pueblo lands as well.  I'd be interested in hearing your assessment after you have an opportunity to make comparisons.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + uPRE MKII
Post by: dactylus on April 13, 2017, 05:06:09 PM
^
Thanks for the info!

I ordered a Femto yesterday.  Looking forward to running this in a week or two...

I also inquired about the uPRE MKII.  The uPRE MKII is currently unavailable.  Antoine does not expect this pre to be back in stock for 6 to 8 weeks.
List price for the uPRE MKII is 795 EUR.

Looks like you will be having quite the pre collection after the Pueblo lands as well.  I'd be interested in hearing your assessment after you have an opportunity to make comparisons.

I do have a fondness for pre's.  I always have...

 :headphones:
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + uPRE MKII
Post by: perks on April 14, 2017, 02:20:11 PM
^
Thanks for the info!

I ordered a Femto yesterday.  Looking forward to running this in a week or two...

I also inquired about the uPRE MKII.  The uPRE MKII is currently unavailable.  Antoine does not expect this pre to be back in stock for 6 to 8 weeks.
List price for the uPRE MKII is 795 EUR.

Looks like you will be having quite the pre collection after the Pueblo lands as well.  I'd be interested in hearing your assessment after you have an opportunity to make comparisons.

I do have a fondness for pre's.  I always have...

 :headphones:

understatement of the century.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: yug du nord on April 14, 2017, 04:39:34 PM
^off the top of my head, my count is nearly double digits.   :clapping:
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: dactylus on April 21, 2017, 06:43:32 AM

Femto arrived yesterday.  Nice and compact!!  I hope to run it for the first time next week.

Now to have darktrain construct a few RA stubby XLR's for me as well as a RA 5 pin XLR for the output!

Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: jmitchell on April 24, 2017, 01:02:53 AM

Femto arrived yesterday.  Nice and compact!!  I hope to run it for the first time next week.

Now to have darktrain construct a few RA stubby XLR's for me as well as a RA 5 pin XLR for the output!

Funny, mine came on the 20th.  Waiting on cables as well.  I was able to get out that night and give it a spin.
Title: Re: Audioroot femto + Upre
Post by: Gordon on May 07, 2017, 04:23:48 PM
I found some rechargeable 9v that gave me 9 hours in home testing with the ak40s > nick mod lc3 > pfa!  Ran them at a show and voltage after 2 hours and 10 minutes lined right up with home testing.


info here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175100.msg2226331#msg2226331

link to battery's

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DZ8JVYE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

charger

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0184NF68A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1