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Gear / Technical Help => Photo / Video Recording => Topic started by: Ringside on March 02, 2015, 11:06:09 PM
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Hello all,
I've been toying with the idea of upgrading my video camera. I record non stealth small shows at bars and clubs. Often with the bands prior approval.
I currently use a Sony camcorder, HDR CX260. It's okay but I'm looking for an alternative. I've been thinking about the Canon G20, but I can't find much in the way of concert samples that have been captures with that camcorder.
A lot of the better footage I see seems to have been captured with a DSLR. I have no experience using these, as I'm not too much into still photography. I'm wondering if there are any good mid priced options that are tried and tested as far as concert recording goes?
I like the idea of unofficial firmware updates to counter the 20 minute limit on some of them, this would probably be a must.
Thanks for reading!
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I think any canon dslr would be pleanty good. The important part is the lens, get one with a big max aperture and use manual focus if you can.
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I'm hoping people say "DSLR" when they actually mean "interchangeable lens system camera" because the best ILSC cameras for video are not Digital Single Lens Reflex design but are mirrorless. These include the Panasonic Lumix G series, Sony A7xx and A6000, and Samsung NX1 and NX500.
The biggest single issue against DSLRs is the limited shot length. Shooting a concert is a terrible time to have the camera stop at 20 or 30 minutes and require a restart. Whether it's file handling, sensor overheating, or simply a design choice, I know of no DSLR that will shoot until the card fills up or the battery runs out, while this capability is common in mirrorless cameras.
The big advantage of the Lumix cams is the smaller Micro 4/3 sensor. It's common to take the position that a bigger sensor is better, but like most things in life there are tradeoffs. A larger sensor gives a shallower depth of field for a given aperture which is great for portraits and dramatic shoots, but it makes the area in focus smaller and catching focus trickier. More importantly to me, the larger sensor requires larger heavier lenses for the same focal length and max aperture.
Fran
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I think any canon dslr would be pleanty good. The important part is the lens, get one with a big max aperture and use manual focus if you can.
Sounds about right. For the lens a 2.8 Sigma lens should do good for what you want. I haven't done much video with my Canon T3i, but I believe you only get 10 minutes of recording time in video mode.
I mostly do still photography with the DSLR which you can find here... https://www.flickr.com/photos/harmon712/sets
I just started doing video with a Canon VIXIA HF R500 clamped to my mic stand using a Manfrotto Superclamp and doing the best I can with iMovie to sync up the audio... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqH0PWZ7cSY
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I've been shooting concerts with a dSLR for 3 years now. I started with a Canon t3i. I personally like shooting with a nice zoom range so I ended up getting a Canon 18-200mm f/3.5 - 5.6 lens which gave a nice wide to zoomed in. The only issues I had with the lens was that manual zooming can sometimes stutter if you turned it too slowly. Also when you're using a zoom lens on a dSLR you always have to tweak your focus. The other problem is the aperture wasn't the best in low light. I tended to keep the aperture at f/5.6 so it was uniform no matter where I was no the zoom. I was able to get by with it in most nightclubs I shoot at. On the t3i ISO1600 is the limit quality wise. video on IS3200 is garbage. I got the 18-200mm lens for $500 used.
I have since upgraded to a Canon 70D and using ISO 3200 and ISO4000 for video is passable. I also have a Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 VC. This is my go to concert video shooting lens. Image stabilization, good for lower light venues, and good enough zoom range for shooting when your're within the first few rows of a venue. I also have a Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 VC which is a heavy mofo, but is good for shooting when you're a fair distance away from the stage. Unfortunately the two lenses are $1200 - $1300 each.
I have a Rode Stereo Videomic plugged into the camera for audio. It's mostly a backup if I screw up my main recordings I do with CA-11s going into an Edirol R-09HR
Continuous recording is definitely an issue on dSLRs, but I tend stop between songs to rest my arms since I shoot mostly hand held.
http://www.youtube.com/victoriabcmusicscene
http://www.youtube.com/magmazing
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Check out the Tamrons, their lenses are uber awesome: http://www.tamron-usa.com/lenses/prod/fast_zooms.php
I've been shooting concerts with a dSLR for 3 years now. I started with a Canon t3i. I personally like shooting with a nice zoom range so I ended up getting a Canon 18-200mm f/3.5 - 5.6 lens which gave a nice wide to zoomed in. The only issues I had with the lens was that manual zooming can sometimes stutter if you turned it too slowly. Also when you're using a zoom lens on a dSLR you always have to tweak your focus. The other problem is the aperture wasn't the best in low light. I tended to keep the aperture at f/5.6 so it was uniform no matter where I was no the zoom. I was able to get by with it in most nightclubs I shoot at. On the t3i ISO1600 is the limit quality wise. video on IS3200 is garbage. I got the 18-200mm lens for $500 used.
I have since upgraded to a Canon 70D and using ISO 3200 and ISO4000 for video is passable. I also have a Tamron 24-70mm f/2.8 VC. This is my go to concert video shooting lens. Image stabilization, good for lower light venues, and good enough zoom range for shooting when your're within the first few rows of a venue. I also have a Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8 VC which is a heavy mofo, but is good for shooting when you're a fair distance away from the stage. Unfortunately the two lenses are $1200 - $1300 each.
I have a Rode Stereo Videomic plugged into the camera for audio. It's mostly a backup if I screw up my main recordings I do with CA-11s going into an Edirol R-09HR
Continuous recording is definitely an issue on dSLRs, but I tend stop between songs to rest my arms since I shoot mostly hand held.
http://www.youtube.com/victoriabcmusicscene
http://www.youtube.com/magmazing
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Not sure what mid-priced means to you? Please specify price range.
A terrific all-around camera would be Panasonic GH4 (http://bit.ly/PanasGH4), which is very good for recording concerts as well as anything else. Due to M43 sensor, focusing is much easier than with, say, full-frame sensor of DSLRs like 5D.
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I've been toying with the idea of upgrading my video camera. I record non stealth small shows at bars and clubs. Often with the bands prior approval.
I currently use a Sony camcorder, HDR CX260. It's okay but I'm looking for an alternative. I've been thinking about the Canon G20, but I can't find much in the way of concert samples that have been captures with that camcorder.
My investigation of the G20/25 when they came out led me toward other cameras. One of the knocks on the G20 is poor low light response. Which I'm thinking you might actually need. If that's true, you'll probably get better results from a camera with a larger sensor. Bigger sensor -> bigger photosites -> better sensitivity -> better low light performance. In general.
A lot of the better footage I see seems to have been captured with a DSLR. I have no experience using these, as I'm not too much into still photography. I'm wondering if there are any good mid priced options that are tried and tested as far as concert recording goes?
I'm hoping you mean vidoe only. None of the DSLR-ish cameras have acceptable audio. Even the ones with a headphone jack (they spent an extra $1.25 (no, I don't know any exact number, but you get my point) for the jack, the DAC chip, the wiring, and the assembly) which might lead you to believe they are "serious" about audio. Don't believe them. They are not at all serious about audio. Well, they are serious about getting their cameras used for YouTube vids, and that's where it ends.
From a video standpoint, you want one that can run for the length of your concert without stopping. The fact that many DSLRs stop after 20-30 minutes of video isn't just about file system issues. It's also about heat issues.
I like the idea of unofficial firmware updates to counter the 20 minute limit on some of them, this would probably be a must.
Firmware updates will not help with mechanical heat dissipation. And the fact that some of these cameras may not have temperature sensors on the imaging chip can lead to a messy place. Best to find a camera that does what you need without requiring third party add ons. Just sayin'.
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...I'm hoping you mean vidoe only. None of the DSLR-ish cameras have acceptable audio...
You might be surprised by the audio capability of a Lumix GH4.
Fran
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You might be surprised by the audio capability of a Lumix GH4.
Fran
True. GH4 is way better than I'd expect it to be (in all ways actually...), including audio.
Now, some people report hum/buzz or whatever in their audio, but I get none. So I suppose there may be some variation between the copies.
Mine is great.
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You might be surprised by the audio capability of a Lumix GH4.
Fran
True. GH4 is way better than I'd expect it to be (in all ways actually...), including audio.
Now, some people report hum/buzz or whatever in their audio, but I get none. So I suppose there may be some variation between the copies.
Mine is great.
The buzz was fixed on the production line back in August 2014, go to DVXuser.com where someone has posted the serial number range. Earlier cameras can be tweaked by Panasonic service to eliminate the buzz as well. I've had both versions of the fix and the improvement was subtle but noticeable.
I shot a hula show a couple of weeks ago, had my PCM-D50 recording the board but the sound crew gave me a dreadful mix, then dropped the ball and killed my feed in several places, so I was very glad that camera audio was useable.
Fran
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Don't know how many are available, but there are some new Panasonic G6 bodies on eb-y for $288 or thereabouts. Grab a $20 lens converter and a 50mm f1.8 canon or Minolta lens and you could be recording some pretty decent video for say $400 with the flexibility of adding other lens later. Or look for a 28mm Vivitar or Minolta lens if you want a broader shot. The g6 has a mic in and focus peaking.
IMO, downside of G6 is it seems easy to hit the iso/wb wheel and knock your settings off while shooting stills if you have larger hands.
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...I'm hoping you mean video only. None of the DSLR-ish cameras have acceptable audio...
You might be surprised by the audio capability of a Lumix GH4.
Fran
I've heard it. For a DSLR-ish camera it's toward the top of the heap. But it's still in the heap, and that's the problem. The audio isn't nearly as nice as the video, which is just a reflection of where Panny spent its R&D yen. No surprise there.
You might be surprised by the audio capability of an SD MixPre-D driving line level to a Tascam DR-100mkII (which does bypass the crappy micpres in the DR100mkII). But I doubt it; this is Taperssection after all.
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You might be surprised by the audio capability of an SD MixPre-D driving line level to a Tascam DR-100mkII (which does bypass the crappy micpres in the DR100mkII).
Believe it or not, even cheap Tascam DR-07 has excellent line-in recording quality. (Mic pres are impossibly bad though...)
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I think any canon dslr would be pleanty good. The important part is the lens, get one with a big max aperture and use manual focus if you can.
Sounds about right. For the lens a 2.8 Sigma lens should do good for what you want. I haven't done much video with my Canon T3i, but I believe you only get 10 minutes of recording time in video mode.
I mostly do still photography with the DSLR which you can find here... https://www.flickr.com/photos/harmon712/sets
I just started doing video with a Canon VIXIA HF R500 clamped to my mic stand using a Manfrotto Superclamp and doing the best I can with iMovie to sync up the audio... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqH0PWZ7cSY
That video looks good..what editing program u using.