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Author Topic: Dilema????  (Read 3513 times)

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Offline balou2

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Dilema????
« on: May 26, 2008, 03:16:46 AM »
So, I was one of the early adopter HD-DVD guys.  Well...not early adopter, but have the Toshiba HDX-A2 machine and 70 HD movies.  I'm buying HD movies left and right, as they're so damn cheap on a few very cool sites, but I'm ready to go Blu-Ray.

Any Blu-Ray owners out there?  I'm leaning toward the Panny BDP-30 player, but the other option is the PS3.  I am NOT a gamer AT ALL, but I've read on the AVS forums that PS3 is the only true "future-proof" Blu-Ray player since it can easily be upgraded based on the operating platform and processor.  Any opinions on this?

I've read AVS ad nauseum, but so many of those guys are snobs and it gets a little tough to read between bias and truth.
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 09:15:04 AM »
That is true about it being upgradable. I have only two issues with the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player:
1. You have limited audio output options.
2. You cannot use a universal remote with it.  You must use either the controller or the PS3 bluetooth remote.

I hate #2.  I have a Harmony remote and love it, and it makes no sense why the PS3 couldn't add a $1 part to add so much compatibility.  But the PS3 is a very good option for Blu-Ray playback as it is still the fastest and one of the cheaper Blu-Ray options out there.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 10:17:04 AM »
1. You have limited audio output options.

What do you mean by "limited".  It has SPDIF, HDMI and an analog mix-down pair.  What else do you need?
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 10:32:42 AM »
1. You have limited audio output options.

What do you mean by "limited".  It has SPDIF, HDMI and an analog mix-down pair.  What else do you need?

Analog outs and digital coax.  And if I recall correctly there are some formats that the PS3 will not pass digitally (I'll have to look up which ones, I don't remember).
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2008, 10:57:49 AM »
Analog outs and digital coax.  And if I recall correctly there are some formats that the PS3 will not pass digitally (I'll have to look up which ones, I don't remember).

So you want 8 channels of analog out? 

The coax I can understand but from sony's perspective the consumer interface is optical and SPDIF is useless for the new HD audio formats anyway.   

From what I've seen in our lab the PS3 will pass all supported formats digitally, it just won't pass them all decrypted.  Formats like DTS-HD and Dolby-HD will only be passed over HDMI using HDCP.  Part of it is a bandwidth issue and part of it is the studios want the lossless HD formats protected.  The PS3 will pass the lossy multichannel stream over SPDIF.  For the DTS-MA sources we have, the PS3 stripped and transmitted the DTS core stream out SPDIF.  None of the recievers I have tried will even look for DTS-MA on the SPDIF.  We authored a DTS-MA 2-channel 24/96 stream that had a bit rate well within the limits of SPDIF and none of the receivers would decode it when sent by SPDIF but they did detect and decode when we passed it through HDMI, even without HDCP turned on.  When the same stream was stripped to DTS core, the receivers would lock and decode the SPDIF data streams.

If you want to capture audio from the DTS-HD sources, you aren't going to do it except though the analog hole of a receiver or unless you buy a piece of production equipment (like buying a pro level DAT machine back in the day).
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2008, 11:36:33 AM »
^^ what lil kim said

in practical application, the only issue is that the stuff is sent as lpcm, and if it is 5.1, but you have a 7.1 setup, the ps3 sends 7 channels, but the last two (rears) are  muted. if you play mp3s, it is two channel, but if you have a 7.1 setup, your receiver reads it is getting 7.1 channels, but all but the front l and front r are muted. the issue is that this means alot of receivers cant post process the lpcm audio, 'cos most just pass the lpcm through. but everything works, it just gets streamed via hdmi as described above... there are other options and workarounds, but they involve tweaking the settings in the ps3, and that can be a burden when using  the unit for various apps everyday; my guess is that a future firmware will resolve some of this, like only streaming 2 channels of lpcm when playing stereo tracks (which would then allow users to play with their receiver's post processing settings)...

« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 11:39:48 AM by macdaddy »
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2008, 03:11:02 PM »
Analog outs and digital coax.  And if I recall correctly there are some formats that the PS3 will not pass digitally (I'll have to look up which ones, I don't remember).

So you want 8 channels of analog out? 

The coax I can understand but from sony's perspective the consumer interface is optical and SPDIF is useless for the new HD audio formats anyway.  

From what I've seen in our lab the PS3 will pass all supported formats digitally, it just won't pass them all decrypted.  Formats like DTS-HD and Dolby-HD will only be passed over HDMI using HDCP.  Part of it is a bandwidth issue and part of it is the studios want the lossless HD formats protected.  The PS3 will pass the lossy multichannel stream over SPDIF.  For the DTS-MA sources we have, the PS3 stripped and transmitted the DTS core stream out SPDIF.  None of the recievers I have tried will even look for DTS-MA on the SPDIF.  We authored a DTS-MA 2-channel 24/96 stream that had a bit rate well within the limits of SPDIF and none of the receivers would decode it when sent by SPDIF but they did detect and decode when we passed it through HDMI, even without HDCP turned on.  When the same stream was stripped to DTS core, the receivers would lock and decode the SPDIF data streams.

If you want to capture audio from the DTS-HD sources, you aren't going to do it except though the analog hole of a receiver or unless you buy a piece of production equipment (like buying a pro level DAT machine back in the day).

I don't necessarily want that stuff (I'm happy with my PS3), but those are the two complaints I hear about when using it as a BD player.  Lots of people on AVS use the analog outs.  Granted they're a bit of a niche demographic. ;)

The lack of IR does piss me off, though.  It's such a stupid oversight.  But apparently some guy is selling a USB IR receiver that works with the PS3, you just can't turn it on and off with it.  I'll probably end up with one of those just so I can use my Harmony remote for movie playback.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2008, 03:19:50 PM »

I completely understand wanting the 8 channels out.  One of the guys involved with our board has a Classe surround system and he really wants us to add the 8-ch analog ports but realistically it makes no sense for us because most people use a receiver and most new recievers have built in decoders.  He and I are definitely in the fringe of the market.

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Offline willndmb

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 12:46:02 PM »
if you have that many hd movies i would get a dual format player and try to dump the a2
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 07:29:42 PM »
john - you can hack the psp to run as a learning remote, and it does play nice with the ps3. no bluray player control via psp, yet, but that is just a matter of time...

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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 07:49:06 PM »
john - you can hack the psp to run as a learning remote, and it does play nice with the ps3. no bluray player control via psp, yet, but that is just a matter of time...



Now THAT is cool.  Got any links about this?
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Dilema????
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 01:21:50 AM »
john - you can hack the psp to run as a learning remote, and it does play nice with the ps3. no bluray player control via psp, yet, but that is just a matter of time...



Now THAT is cool.  Got any links about this?

yeah - i do it...
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