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Author Topic: Tascam DR2d - part 2  (Read 58334 times)

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Offline Will_S

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2012, 05:07:17 PM »
I've read a number of posts that seem to suggest sending a soundboard feed to MIC IN and then connecting mics, via a pre-amp or battery box, to LINE IN for a 4ch recording. Can someone explain why you'd do it that way? Since the GAIN setting affects the MIC IN, what do you set it to for a board feed?

you can control the input level of MIC IN on the DR-2d while recording... usually set around 65 to 67
but do a soundcheck first if possible with the soundman
you cannot control the input level of LINE IN, so that's why you use a preamp

Except that you really can't usefully control the input on mic-in with a soundboard level feed either, since you will clip if the signal is too hot at 67 regardless of what the meters show when you turn it down further.  Beats me why people insist on running soundboards into the mic in just to get an illusion of control.

Offline darby

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2012, 05:35:58 PM »
dude won't you just give up trolling me
I have had no problems using my DR-2d so please move along
I've read a number of posts that seem to suggest sending a soundboard feed to MIC IN and then connecting mics, via a pre-amp or battery box, to LINE IN for a 4ch recording. Can someone explain why you'd do it that way? Since the GAIN setting affects the MIC IN, what do you set it to for a board feed?

you can control the input level of MIC IN on the DR-2d while recording... usually set around 65 to 67
but do a soundcheck first if possible with the soundman
you cannot control the input level of LINE IN, so that's why you use a preamp

Except that you really can't usefully control the input on mic-in with a soundboard level feed either, since you will clip if the signal is too hot at 67 regardless of what the meters show when you turn it down further.  Beats me why people insist on running soundboards into the mic in just to get an illusion of control.

Offline jbell

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2012, 06:04:43 PM »
I've run SBD mic in without any problems!!
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2012, 06:32:57 PM »
I've run SBD mic in without any problems!!

I haven't tried a soundboard in, so I can't comment on how well it would work.  I'd almost definitely use an attenuator between the board and the DR2d.  That way I could control the input level, and do so in practice due to the attenuator -- give a range of 65-100, not just set it and hope.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline darby

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2012, 06:50:48 PM »
I've run SBD mic in without any problems!!

I haven't tried a soundboard in, so I can't comment on how well it would work.  I'd almost definitely use an attenuator between the board and the DR2d.  That way I could control the input level, and do so in practice due to the attenuator -- give a range of 65-100, not just set it and hope.

I have for the past year and never had any problems except once when the SBD had a bad channel
and that was fixed by tossing that channel when post processing and duplicating the other channel
I just must have the benefit of having FOH guys who work with me beforehand... so there is no illusion of control for me  :lol:

Offline Will_S

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2012, 07:01:29 PM »
I've run SBD mic in without any problems!!

I haven't tried a soundboard in, so I can't comment on how well it would work.  I'd almost definitely use an attenuator between the board and the DR2d.  That way I could control the input level, and do so in practice due to the attenuator -- give a range of 65-100, not just set it and hope.

I have for the past year and never had any problems except once when the SBD had a bad channel
and that was fixed by tossing that channel when post processing and duplicating the other channel
I just must have the benefit of having FOH guys who work with me beforehand... so there is no illusion of control for me  :lol:

Get over yourself dude.  Todd is right ... IF you run an attenuator in front, you can usefully change the levels on the fly while recording SBD > mic in, so long as you don't need go below 67 or so to avoid clipping.  So with a (sufficient) attenuator, 67-100 is potentially useful if you want to adjust levels during the music.  Without an attenuator, you might be able to take a weak feed up to 70 something, but otherwise the level controls aren't doing you much good, and with a hot enough feed you will run into unavoidable overload sooner than you would with line in.

Since the poster asking about SBD>mic in made no mention of an attenuator, I just wanted him(?) to realize that the mic in wasn't giving him as much control as he might think.

Sorry you think explaining how the DR2D works to a new user is somehow trolling you.  I can honestly say I had no idea if we've discussed this in the past - I know I've brought it up before, I know some disagreed, but it never registered who.

Offline darby

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2012, 07:35:13 PM »
why is it you can't carry on a discussion without ridiculing my posts? plus you seem to chime in minutes after I do
what works for you works for you, but my points are also valid... GET OVER YOURSELF


Offline Todd R

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2012, 08:00:33 PM »
I've run SBD mic in without any problems!!

I haven't tried a soundboard in, so I can't comment on how well it would work.  I'd almost definitely use an attenuator between the board and the DR2d.  That way I could control the input level, and do so in practice due to the attenuator -- give a range of 65-100, not just set it and hope.

I have for the past year and never had any problems except once when the SBD had a bad channel
and that was fixed by tossing that channel when post processing and duplicating the other channel
I just must have the benefit of having FOH guys who work with me beforehand... so there is no illusion of control for me  :lol:

I don't want to get in the middle of someone else's pissing match, so please keep me out of it.

I'm just saying what I would do, and what I think is good practice. 

To run 4 channels into this recorder, 2 from an external mic preamp, and 2 from a soundboard, you will be running 2 sets of line level inputs into a recorder that only has 1 line level input and one mic level input.

The DR2d's mic level input can only take a -16 dbV input.  The nominal line level for consumer gear is -10 dbV and the nominal line level out for professional gear is +4 dbu. A soundboard is likely in the latter category, so a nominal output level of +4 dbu.

I think the person asking the original question should know this, thus my point of posting. If running without an attenuator is working for you, that's great. I'm just saying I wouldn't do it, and frankly, I wouldn't recommend it. But people can run their gear however they want, I just think itis useful to know some of the issues to consider.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline Will_S

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2012, 09:18:47 PM »
Since the GAIN setting affects the MIC IN, what do you set it to for a board feed?

Just realized no one answered this directly... LOW.  Be aware that if you have the gain set to low, and the recording level has to be set below 67 on the mic in, your recording will be clipped even if the levels look ok on the meters.  Minor clipping might not be too audible, but if you have to run <67 it would be best to use an attenuator, or switch to the line input if you can run your mic preamp with a low enough output such that they do not overload the mic-in, low, 67.

Edit to add:  A really hot board feed could overload even the line in, and on the line in you can clip without the meters showing it if you have to drop below the mid 90s.  So it's probably worth having an attenuator in your bag regardless.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 09:22:21 PM by Will_S »

Offline jbell

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2012, 10:37:24 AM »
Here is a 4 channel I did a few weekends ago!!  I ran Aud line in at 95 and SBD mic in 67.  I used an Attenuator cable on the mic in for the first set and didn't use it for the 2nd set since the SBD wasn't sending a hot signal.  I also didn't realize it would be okay to turn the mic in up past 67 while using the attenuator cable.  Most places I would have sound board access I can ask to have it turned down, but I will probably use an attenuator cable most of the time just to be safe.

http://archive.org/details/gsbg2012-03-31.gsbg2012-03-31
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Offline nigelsh

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2012, 04:36:40 PM »
Thanks to those of you who answered my questions. I've only just got my DR-2d and have previously used a Zoom H2 (line in) when I received board feeds. I've never used an attenuator cable before.  I assume that the attenuator is recommended to avoid overloading the MIC IN with a signal that would otherwise be too loud (because MIC IN is more sensitive than LINE IN) - correct?

Todd I appreciate your info about dbV & dbu, although I don't understand it!

Offline genesisoh

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2012, 01:22:50 PM »
Late , but checking in as well (I have a busy day job!)  Really enjoying parts of this discussion.  I plan on using two sets of mics with the DR-2D, one card one omni (both Church :-)  There is some GREAT information in part one of this thread that I actually cut and pasted portions of into a separate document (for future reference).

If I am recording in 24/48 and the source (concert) is extremely loud and I turn down the settings to 90 using LINE IN or 60 for MIC IN, will clipping still occur?  There are shows I go to sometimes where I am not certain I will  be able to check the settings in real time, so wanted to set them low enough so that clipping would be avoided (and can bring up in post).  Thanks!

Mics: CA-14 cards and omnis
Preamp: CA 9100 (not currently in use - wanna buy it???)
Recorder: TASCAM DR-2D
Video: Sony hx9v; Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS3 (old faithful)

Offline Drgiggles1

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2012, 06:18:10 PM »
Late , but checking in as well (I have a busy day job!)  Really enjoying parts of this discussion.  I plan on using two sets of mics with the DR-2D, one card one omni (both Church :-)  There is some GREAT information in part one of this thread that I actually cut and pasted portions of into a separate document (for future reference).

If I am recording in 24/48 and the source (concert) is extremely loud and I turn down the settings to 90 using LINE IN or 60 for MIC IN, will clipping still occur?  There are shows I go to sometimes where I am not certain I will  be able to check the settings in real time, so wanted to set them low enough so that clipping would be avoided (and can bring up in post).  Thanks!
As long as the sensitivity level is set to low you should be fine. The problem can occur in mid or high sensitivity settings even though the levels on the recording seem fine. I ran 2 cards / 2 omni's (CHURCH) from 16th row center for VH and I had the cards>BB>micin and omni's> ca9100 pre>line in with levels on both ports @ 100 with the pre @ 3 o'clock and peaked @ -6dB on both wav files.
Mics: CA-14 (o,c,o)
Remote Power: CA-9100 pre-amp, CA-UBB battery box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2d
Cable/s: custom 6" GAKables Mini Starquad
Batteries: Maha 9.6V Imedion, Maha Powerex 2700 mAh
Chargers: Maha MH-C9000, MAHA MH-C490F 9 Volt

Offline Ziggz

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2012, 06:38:47 PM »
Used mine for the first time last night and got some sort of write error using a class 10 16GB Kingston "Ultimate X" card during the opening set. However it ran fine for the 95min main set. I will try another card and see if it happens again, maybe a class 4 16BG Kingston? The tested media list on their site is from last June.

Other than that it seems ok, the line levels were near flatline though - acoustic gig, with input set to low. Mic in was marginally louder. Will try mid next week, another acoustic gig.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2012, 03:58:10 AM by Ziggz »

Offline Will_S

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Re: Tascam DR2d - part 2
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2012, 09:29:50 AM »
the line levels were near flatline though

What source did you have connected to the line-in and via what sort of cabling?

 

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