Topic: Nagra LINO

[carpa]

What John Willet is probably true, but maybe Nagra should specify things a little more, and not just  rely on "trust the name" . As I asked in my previous post, if this Lino had better AD, better mic pre, stronger 3,5 input than other handhelds which cost half the price, then it would be a very good unit and justify why some one should buy it at the same price of an Olympus ls-100 ( in Europe, at least).  It would be a choice of less flexibility ( no xlr, no phantom) vs. better quality.
If quality be the same as an Edirol R09hr or a Sony pcm m10 then there's no choice.

What makes me a bit suspicious is why Nagra sd, which apparently shares the same body with lino and it's said to share also the internal circuitry with the difference of plug-in dedicated mics, still costs three times more
regards

[noahbickart]

Looking at the specs, there doesn't seem to be any reason to use the 24bit setting going line in. If the noise floor is only 90db down, those last 8 bits are all noise. I tried for a while, but couldn't find a price or dealer for the AEQ unit online. Given this, the $300 more you spend on this rather than the m10 is *only* for the name Nagra on it.

This reminds be of Lexicon using a OEM Oppo DVD player (~$800) and putting it in a fancy aluminum case and charging $3000 for it.

I suspect the price is totally based on the name. If Nagra was actually using only the case and putting their own innards in it, why wouldn't they be more forthcoming?

I've e-mailed Nagra asking who the OEM is, we'll see if they write back.

[ghiromax]

I think the OEM for Nagra Lino is this company

sales@infomedia.com.cn
infomedia.com.cn

on their site there a version of the recorder named PAW-V, having different mics than the Nagra Lino and the AEQ L-300, but a couple od days ago I've found some pics of exactly he same looking as Lino/L-300 branded Infomedian(or Lotoo)  L-300. It was a Chinese page which I'm not able anymore to find ...

I've found two PAW-V reviews in Chinese where they seem to compare it to Sony D-50 which may be quite interesting, unfortunately the google translation leaves too many doubts on the correct interpretation of them :-( If any Chinese speaking wants to contribute these are the links

http://www.erji.net/simple/index.php?t1123256.html
http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/archiver/tid-183993.html

 

[noahbickart]

Well done! I'm on this!

I think the OEM for Nagra Lino is this company

sales@infomedia.com.cn
infomedia.com.cn

on their site there a version of the recorder named PAW-V, having different mics than the Nagra Lino and the AEQ L-300, but a couple od days ago I've found some pics of exactly he same looking as Lino/L-300 branded Infomedian(or Lotoo)  L-300. It was a Chinese page which I'm not able anymore to find ...

I've found two PAW-V reviews in Chinese where they seem to compare it to Sony D-50 which may be quite interesting, unfortunately the google translation leaves too many doubts on the correct interpretation of them :-( If any Chinese speaking wants to contribute these are the links

http://www.erji.net/simple/index.php?t1123256.html
http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/archiver/tid-183993.html

[George2]

Looking at the specs, there doesn't seem to be any reason to use the 24bit setting going line in. If the noise floor is only 90db down, those last 8 bits are all noise.

^^This is my feeling when using any palm-sized recorder.

I have the Nagra SD. Build quality is excellent.
When running unblanaced line in from a SD Mixpre-D, (XLR out unblanaced),
I turn on the -20dBsf slate tone on the Mixpre, and with the NagraSD line input turned all the way down, it's recording the tone at -18.89dBfs.. both channels. exactly the same.
I put the test tone in a DAW and that's what it comes in at.
Nagra peak light comes on at 0dBfs. There isn't any distortion that I can tell.
There isn't any limiter.

When using mic input the peak light comes on at 0dBfs or when you clip the internal mic preamp.

It's very easy to use.

Yes, noise floor not as quiet as other palm-sized recorders... but that's not the whole story about the quality of the sound.
My RO9-HR is a couple dB quieter, but the sound is slightly duller.

I did e-mail Nagra several times and asked these questions...

Can you make the noise floor quieter?.. answer was "yes, at the expense of battery life.. it's all about power... we could make it with a different chip, but battery life greatly reduced."
Does the line level input bypass the mic preamps?.... answer was "yes."

The review from this AEQ-L300 says it's different software than the Nagra.... but it looks the same.
One thing different.... the latest Nagra software the record button stays solid red while in record, and the AEQ blinks faster when in record.
This is how early version of the Nagra SD software was. Would be interesting to see if you could load the Nagra Lino Software.

[noahbickart]

AEQ is available here for ~$350:
http://www.scmsinc.com/shop-item/studio-products-telephone-interfaces-codecs/l300-aeq-l300-portable-hand-held-recorder/

You can run this off of a USB battery pack:
You can also supply power the AEQ L300 with the USB cable connecting it to a PC.
1 InserttheUSBcableintoUSBconnectorontheAEQL300 2 ConnecttheUSBcabletothePCUSBport.
3 Choose[Power]whendisplayprompts[USBWorkMod].
4 AEQL300isnowpoweredthroughtheUSBconnector.

AEQ Manual: http://www.aeq.es/sites/4ea1346a570d99455a0000c6/contents/content_instance/4eb12158570d99081700069f/files/L300_User_Manual_WWW.pdf

Compare with:

Nagra Lino Manual:
http://www.alt-1c.ru/userfiles/download_the_manual_in_a_professional_digital_recorder_nagra_lino.pdf

This sells for $500 at b and h: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/901495-REG/Nagra_LINO_Professional_Handheld.html

I believe, though I don't have any data to prove it, that:

 **these two units differ only in the name on the recorder and the firmware that happens to be loaded onto the chip.**

I'd love to load the Nagra firmware onto the AEQ to prove it.

[hi and lo]

Looking at the specs, there doesn't seem to be any reason to use the 24bit setting going line in. If the noise floor is only 90db down, those last 8 bits are all noise.

Sony PCM-M10 - 87dB or greater (1KHz IHF-A) when set to 24-bit
Tascam DR-100mkii - 92dB or more（XLR LINE 1 IN→LINE OUT, Fs44.1kHz, +24dBu input, JEITA）

[noahbickart]

Looking at the specs, there doesn't seem to be any reason to use the 24bit setting going line in. If the noise floor is only 90db down, those last 8 bits are all noise.

Sony PCM-M10 - 87dB or greater (1KHz IHF-A) when set to 24-bit
Tascam DR-100mkii - 92dB or more（XLR LINE 1 IN→LINE OUT, Fs44.1kHz, +24dBu input, JEITA）

True that. I only run @ 24bit because of my ego. 

The Tascam, in addition to the better specs, can take spdif.

The real irony in all of this is that if Nagra put out a little box like this which only had a spdif in and charged $350 for it, we'd all probably own one.

[runonce]

Might as well buy the OEM gear.

This is a Chinese unit, which seems to be used by AEQ as well.

http://www.aeq.eu/products/digital-portable-recorder

We should figure out which Chinese factory makes the thing and buy 100 of them, and get them branded as the TS.com DAR1000x. I bet we could get the price down to the m10 range, which, given the specs, seems just about right.

Maybe they should call it the NINO...

"Nagra In Name Only"

[F.O.Bean]

Might as well buy the OEM gear.

This is a Chinese unit, which seems to be used by AEQ as well.

http://www.aeq.eu/products/digital-portable-recorder

We should figure out which Chinese factory makes the thing and buy 100 of them, and get them branded as the TS.com DAR1000x. I bet we could get the price down to the m10 range, which, given the specs, seems just about right.

Maybe they should call it the NINO...

"Nagra In Name Only"

 

[Ozpeter]

The PAW-V mic configuration looks theoretically better than that on the Nagra version.

Nagra would do well to address concerns over this device's pedigree and relative cost.  In googling briefly I found a French forum where people we commenting on how these oem buy-in devices isn't what you expect from Nagra.

I have to say that if Nagra was able to get the electronics uprated, couldn't they have done something about the tacky finish of the case?  All that fake chrome does look a bit tasteless (now - back in the 1950's it would have been the height of fashion!)

[TSNéa]

Just to add some confusion, if needed...

http://web.archive.org/web/20090831193244/http://www.pawrecorder.com/downloads.php

http://web.archive.org/web/20110930080535/http://www.aeq.es/eng/recorder120.htm

 

I tried "Paw recorder Finland" in my search engine too...

http://futuvision.com/en/futuvision-technologies/professional-audio-equipment-and-software

http://publications.theseus.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/8502/Zeng,%20Qianqian.pdf?sequence=2

http://www.etradeasia.com/company_detail/175866/4553/Beijing_Lotoo_Digital_Technology_Co_Ltd_.html

    

On the Lotoo site, there is a link to their shop on taobao.com. Last item on the right side of the blue ribbon.
Two adaptable mics I did'nt see elsewhere.

I could not find how to switch the language to French. Or English. 
There used to be an englishtaobao.com that disappeared.

[DigiGal]

Might as well buy the OEM gear.

This is a Chinese unit, which seems to be used by AEQ as well.

http://www.aeq.eu/products/digital-portable-recorder

We should figure out which Chinese factory makes the thing and buy 100 of them, and get them branded as the TS.com DAR1000x. I bet we could get the price down to the m10 range, which, given the specs, seems just about right.

Maybe they should call it the NINO...

"Nagra In Name Only"

I'll play along...

LINO = Less Impressive Nagra Option

I'd rather Nagra stayed out of China altogether and never put their name on this.  Hopefully Sound Devices never stoops to this.

[noahbickart]

reminds me of this:

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/mutton_in_wolfs_clothing

"According to Lexicon, however, "We had our electrical and electronic engineering teams go through the audio and video circuitry in meticulous detail to make some performance improvements to both the analog audio and video circuitry. This, more than anything else, is where we made our biggest improvements to the end product. . . . The BD-30 is also customized with its own firmware, making it notably different than the Oppo in terms of upgrades. The BD-30 goes through final assembly at the Harman offices in Elkhart, Indiana.""

"But apparently Lexicon hadn't just based their design on the Oppo—it was an Oppo, to which had been added a hefty front panel and chassis and THX certification. As the photos accompanying the Audioholics report revealed, it looked as if the complete Oppo player had been dropped into a new chassis, with no other hardware changes made. Oh, dear!"

Nagra didn't even change the case!

Shanda.

[John Willett]

Nagra didn't even change the case!

The case is probably the reason Nagra chose it - it's far easier to re-design the electronics and change a PCB than it is to change the case.

And Nagra are sticklers for the quality of their ADC/DAC and analogue circuitry, so I am sure they would have gone over this thoroughly and not taken a stock unit.