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Author Topic: Sony PCM-D100 Part2  (Read 29731 times)

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Offline H₂O

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2015, 06:23:02 PM »
Korg audiogate gives you basic editing functions

- changing levels
- tracking
- copying between channels

Pyramix is the main program
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stevetoney

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2015, 09:00:20 AM »
Some of the discussion in this thread had me thinking, so I did a personal comp last night.  I took my favorite DSD recorded song from a recent Lotus show and saved it in 24/196 and 24/48 using Audiogate to do the conversion.  Then I transferred the DSD, 24/196, and 24/48 files to both my D100 and my Fiio X3 to have a listen.

After converting to 24/196, the PCM file is a larger file than the DSD file by about 50%.  Even after I FLACed the file, it was still larger than the DSD file.

My listening setup was my headphone rig...the D100 or Fiio X3 headphone jack >  PanAm tube-based headphone amp > Sennheiser HD700 headphones.  Not the best, but certainly a higher end sound reproduction system.

I didn't spend much time comping the sound produced from the two devices.  They both sound outstanding and were really close, but if I had to choose I thought the X3 sounded just slightly better than the D100.

I was a little surprised by how much better the DSD and 24/196 sound over the 24/48 files.  Of course, the result is expected, but given all of the discussion over the years here on ts.com about how you don't get much from higher sample rates, I didn't expect to hear as much of a difference as I heard.  Better overall clarity and depth is heard in the higher resolution files, especially in the lows. 

The DSD and 24/196 files are close, but the DSD file is the fairly clear winner over the 24/196 PCM file.  The DSD file has a cleaner presentation and overall more 'I'm back at the show' feel to it.  The soundstage and overall air you hear is better on the DSD files. 

One of these days, I'll do a similar comp, except change the sample rates at capture.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:08:42 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline H₂O

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2015, 08:12:33 PM »
I think it has to do with transient response - based the fact the when sound is generate from many sources at many points in space all wave forms of sound begin at different points in time and the brain can subtily sense this based on the complexities of the structure of the ear - and the fact you have 2 ears
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 07:43:46 PM by H₂O »
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Offline Jonmac

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2015, 09:43:40 AM »
I saw a news report the other day saying that Sony are considering dropping the manufacture of many of their products to concentrate on their Film and Play Station divisions.

This could mean that they no longer produce audio recorders, so look after your kit.
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2015, 07:20:40 PM »
On the one hand, Sony released the D100 with DSD ability and they've also recently announced some pricey audio memory card.  I'd be surprised if Sony discontinued these products.  If anything, I'd say Sony may be trying to gain some ground for its DSD format by releasing the D100. 

Except for Audiogate, looks like DSD capable editing software is rather pricey.  Between the recorder, software and a DSD capable player, you could spend quite a bit.   

Offline Jonmac

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2015, 11:37:17 AM »
Sonys position in the market seems very strange to me, they produce very high end Camcorders and video cameras, used by many TV companies, but they don't make a truly professional audio recorder, (XLR inputs, Time code etc).

The D100 and M10 only appear on the Sony professional web site so it would appear that they are aimed at that market, but they are not really suitable for use as anything other than a backup recorder.

As for DSD, no one seems sure what to do with it, the pro video people don't use it, as their editing software cant handle it, ( I speak from experience ) and video sound ends up as 16 or 24 bit/48k anyway.
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Offline birdboy01

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2015, 12:32:48 PM »
Hopefully we are still on topic with D100:)  Actually this would apply to most all consumer digital audio products.  I tried recording digi in to the D100 from my oppo bdp-100 blu ray with the hope of upsampling with the Sony.
:((  That crummy scms / prevented the copy.
I'm wondering if it would still defeat a copy if a macbook was the source. Im going to pick up a dual 3.5mm toslink and see what happens...any experiences?

stevetoney

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2015, 12:41:15 PM »

:((  That crummy scms / prevented the copy.


Are you sure it was SCMS bit that is incompatible and not the SPDIF 'word' format that is the issue?  I have a D100 but I don't intend to use its digital input capabilities, but back when I wanted to use the digi-input on the D50, it was only compatible with the more restrictive SPDIF standard, so it wouldn't play nicely with most of the digital devices on the market at the time the D50 was released.  This issue comes up every now and then on taperssection and I can never remember the specific explanation, but a search of history would provide the necessary details.

Offline birdboy01

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2015, 12:53:34 PM »
thanks tone deaf I'll check previous threads. The d100  meters display the dig signal, however the unit remains locked in rec/pause mode with "no digital".

stevetoney

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2015, 12:58:20 PM »
As for DSD, no one seems sure what to do with it, the pro video people don't use it, as their editing software cant handle it, ( I speak from experience ) and video sound ends up as 16 or 24 bit/48k anyway.

I never knew how to spell DSD before I bought a D100 in November, so my knowledge is limited, but in my brief period of research, I'm independently reaching the same conclusion...that the future of DSD is uncertain at best.  Even as a hobbyist, I unwilling to commit to it as the root of my recording medium going forward.
 
That said, I'm more than happy to enjoy the format through playback of super excellent quality recordings I'm getting in DSD format.  I'll keep doing it and saving my DSD sources alongside 24/196 PCM masters that are immediately achievable for free with Audiogate. 

The most amazing thing to me is being able to put these highest possible quality recordings onto micro SD card and play them back natively in a pocket unit (via Fiio X3 or X5) through a pair of $400 Sennheiser IEMs that I can take with me anywhere I go!  That alone is worth the commitment to DSD for my music loving dollar, but then I've spent a large percentage of my life jonesing for a high-end audiophile system and I've resigned myself that this might be the closest I'll ever come.  Given what I'm hearing on my system and the fact that I'd need to move out before my wife would let me play audiophile gear at the volumes I'd want to play, I'm OK with that.

stevetoney

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2015, 01:12:23 PM »
thanks tone deaf I'll check previous threads. The d100  meters display the dig signal, however the unit remains locked in rec/pause mode with "no digital".

Sounds like that might be your issue.  If you search back in the D50's history in the recorders forum, I think the technical explanation is somewhere back there.  It has something to do with that when the SPDIF standard was first developed by Sony/Phillips (the 's' and the 'p' in S/PDIF), the standard implemented throughout the industry was a little bit different than the strict compliance with the standard as defined by Sony/Phillips.  So when Sony created a device with a digital input (e.g. the D50) and then designed the device with the stricter definition, that immediately meant that the D50 wasn't going to be able to 'talk' to those older devices.  So for example, I bought a D50 thinking I'd use the digi input on the D50 from the optical output of an opti-mod mini-me, but they aren't compatible with each other.  V3's are only compatible if they've had a mod in which they install a new chip.  Apparently, some newer devices are now compatible with the Sony, but it's never a given that the Sony will be compatible with the standard installed in the newer digital device.  Sony COULD resolve this situation for customers if they'd stop designing their recorders with the more restrictive standard, but apparently they won't do that.  Thanks alot Sony!

Offline birdboy01

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2015, 01:54:04 PM »
agreed .. thanks Tone!

Offline birdboy01

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2015, 10:55:36 AM »
Im looking to sell my Sony PCM-D100. Is it ok to post here?
I didn't see a classified section..

thanks
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2015, 11:21:39 AM »
There's a Yard Sale at the bottom of the page where you can sell it.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2015, 12:10:37 PM »

As for DSD, no one seems sure what to do with it

As well as making really great live recordings, it's a good archiving format for analog tapes. I've read that some users think of DSD like you would an analog master tape of a final mix: next step is analog out.

play them back natively in a pocket unit (via Fiio X3 or X5)

I think that those units, the Fiio X3 and the X5, have to convert the DSD to PCM for playback. But the new X3 2nd generation will play DSD natively (including .iso files).

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