Topic: Sony M10 and Sonic Studios DSM-6S/L set

[markbalogh]

I'm hoping someone may be able to shed some light or offer up some thoughts here.

I have recently bought a set of the Sonic Studio DSM-6S/L mics and also just got a Sony M10 recorder as I read the Sony is a perfect powering match for the DSM mics. I recorded several hard rock shows in a combination or clubs and amphitheaters recently w/ this setup and have had some mixed results. It seems the recordings are very bass heavy and at times I seem to hear a slight distortion on the captures. I started out with the recording level dial in the 3 to 3.5 range on the Sony an after hearing the distortion (not total killing the recording but I hear it) I dialed down to as low as 1.5 to 2 on the dial and even though the results sound decent on a pair of quality headphones when listened back on the Sony I still get the bass and slight distortion when I amplify the recordings in post.

I have used another set of Sonics (same model DSM-6S/L) along with the single-AA battery pack from Sonic w/ a Tascam DR-2d deck in the past and never had an issue so I have two thoughts running through my mind. First, is the Sony a much higher resolution recorder so that is why I am capturing more bass with that as opposed to the Tascam and secondly, is the fact that I am not using the Sonic battery pack (box) causing issues? I was under the impression I did not need the battery pack if I used the Sony M10 because it was spec'd to power the mics alone. I followed all instructions on Sonic site for this setup but I am stumped here.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I used to much more knowledgeable back in the days of using my DAT deck w/ some Core Sounds and got some outstanding results.

Thanks,
Mark

[bombdiggity]

My suspicion is that you need a battery box or preamp given you record very loud music.  Plug in power (direct from the recorder's mic in) and the mic in circuit typically don't handle the volume from something really loud.  The distortion will show in the low end first. 

[markbalogh]

Thanks for the reply and I can certainly buy what you are saying if the Sonic site doesn't swear up and down (if you can understand the site that is! LOL) that the mics are spec'd for the Sony M10 deck and it supplies the proper power needed for the mics. You are correct that the slight the distortion is showing in the low end. It doesn't completely kill the recording but it's there for sure.

[bombdiggity]

^ I don't know about all that but I do know that most manufacturers say that using a battery box adds 10 to 20 dB more headroom before they max out...  It may be that they power fine but you may need the extra component to have the headroom for what you record. 

The other answer/s would be that the shows are just too loud for the mics, so the shows are actually exceeding the mics' max SPL (with or without batt box) or that the mics are fried. 

If that model worked fine before with a batt box the next step would be to try with one. 

The PCM-M10 is a nice recorder either way. 

[markbalogh]

What you are saying does make sense to me and I think the next step is to borrow the battery box from for the Sonics that I had from a friend when I used his mics of the same model in the past and see if that corrects my issue. The model of Sonics I have say they are rated for 129 db's according to the Sonics site. Like I said, when I used the same model mics with the battery box and Tascam DR-2d and recorded the same types of shows I never had an issue with show being too loud for the mics. Thanks for your replies.

[backwhereubelong]

I think bombiggity is on the same wavelength as we are (Marks my buddy and we have been discussing this issue).  Bombdiggity did mention one thing that has me thinking ... I wonder if the mics were fried when they were sold on eBay?  A sure fire way of testing them would be to send them to Guy Sonic and let him evaluate the mics.  Maybe resident mic guru, Chris Church, wouldn't mind looking at other peoples mics.  I mentioned to Mark he should borrow his friends battery box/pack, and use it with his mics.  If the problem is still there, then we know it’s the mics.  Go to a show that he don’t mind f’n up just to test the mics with the box.  Worst case scenario is the mics are fried.  We could either get Guy Sonic to fix them or see if Chris would.

[acidjack]

I'd add only that "bass heavy" and "distortion" are two different things.. "bass heavy" I'd expect given that Sonics are very nice-sounding and accurate omnidirectional mics recording an amplified rock PA system. Distortion I would not.

Bombdiggity already hit most of the nails on the head, but you are right that SS's web site advertises certain SS models to power perfectly with the M10. I would wonder I suppose (1) which SS models they are and (2) whether your particular model was rated for the SPL of the particular show(s) you had distortion on. There seems to be a dizzying array of models, and some are from the pre-M10 era. The guys I know who used to run SS for loud rock always ran it with the PA6LC3 battery box from SS, and I think those guys bought the least-sensitive version of the mics. I believe there are versions that are less sensitive than the -L version, but I'll let SS experts chime in here.

[Cobiwan]

One quick question I have is, are all the settings on the M-10 where they should be? Is mic sensitivity on high or low? Recording levels on manual? What about the internal settings?  PIP power on? Etc. Just making sure the M-10 is set how it should be.

[beatkilla]

They will distort close to stack i only use mine outdoors and move back a bit,aound great though.Also the battery box sonics sell mostly all have some bass roll off,with no flat option,so there is your extra bass.

[beatkilla]

If  have an extra sonics battery box if your interested with 3 bass roll off settings,45hz,85,170 or something like that not in front of me,ill sell it cheap if you want it.

[jlykos]

I ran these mics with a Sony D50 for a while. The problem is that the mics cannot handle high SPLs and distort pretty easily when driven hard. I'm not even talking about stack taping; a regular "loud" rock concert from 30 feet away from the stacks will do it. When the mics are recording lower volumes, they sound fantastic. I ended up selling mine and getting some dpa 4061 mics that have never distorted.

I found the issue to be with the mics, not with the recorder or its internal preamplifier.

[OhioHead]

A new M-10 owner here, let say you are open taping Widespread Panic or Tedeschi Trucks w/ Church preamp & C-14's, what setting would you chose for the mic sensitivity?

Cobiwan just listened to AQU SBD from 97 @ Ripley's on Panicstream, nice recording & fun show!  Where were you living in 97 (just wondering if we knew some common tapers from that era)?

One quick question I have is, are all the settings on the M-10 where they should be? Is mic sensitivity on high or low? Recording levels on manual? What about the internal settings?  PIP power on? Etc. Just making sure the M-10 is set how it should be.

[markbalogh]

One quick question I have is, are all the settings on the M-10 where they should be? Is mic sensitivity on high or low? Recording levels on manual? What about the internal settings?  PIP power on? Etc. Just making sure the M-10 is set how it should be.

Yes, all settings are where they should be and according to Sonics site for the Sony.

[markbalogh]

I ran these mics with a Sony D50 for a while. The problem is that the mics cannot handle high SPLs and distort pretty easily when driven hard. I'm not even talking about stack taping; a regular "loud" rock concert from 30 feet away from the stacks will do it. When the mics are recording lower volumes, they sound fantastic. I ended up selling mine and getting some dpa 4061 mics that have never distorted.

I found the issue to be with the mics, not with the recorder or its internal preamplifier.

Did you have the DSM-6S/L (Low) model? I used the same model mics before (borrowed from a friend) for plenty of hard rock and metal shows in small clubs and close to PA and never had issue w/ distortion like I am having now.

[Cobiwan]

A new M-10 owner here, let say you are open taping Widespread Panic or Tedeschi Trucks w/ Church preamp & C-14's, what setting would you chose for the mic sensitivity?

Cobiwan just listened to AQU SBD from 97 @ Ripley's on Panicstream, nice recording & fun show!  Where were you living in 97 (just wondering if we knew some common tapers from that era)?

One quick question I have is, are all the settings on the M-10 where they should be? Is mic sensitivity on high or low? Recording levels on manual? What about the internal settings?  PIP power on? Etc. Just making sure the M-10 is set how it should be.

I was living in Cincinnati from '90-'02. I was archivist for Ripleys and the Barrelhouse.