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Author Topic: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?  (Read 16091 times)

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Offline DancyGeorgia

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Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« on: March 25, 2016, 02:26:54 AM »
Looks like the Sony PCM-M10 has been discontinued. Adorama Camera still has a few units in all colors, but a number of other places I checked were completely out.

Sony has a new hi-res audio recorder being sold in Asia and maybe Europe, the Sony ICD SX-2000. It does not seem to be available yet in the USA, although one can buy it directly from Japan on eBay. Specs are here:

http://www.sony-asia.com/support/product/icd-sx2000

Note that the built-in mics on the ICD SX-2000 are Zoom wide stereo XY rather than the Omnis on the PCM-M10. The SX-2000 also has 16 GB of internal memory vs. 4 GB on the PCM-M10. The ICD SX-2000 is also about 1/2 the thickness of the PCM-M10. The ICD SX-2000 has a hold button, but I do not see a mic sensitivity control. I really like the mic sensitivity control on the PCM-M10 for loud concerts, so I'm wondering why they left it off.

Has anyone tried the new Sony ICD SX-2000? How does it compare to the PCM-M10 in recording quality, both using the internal mics and using external mics and battery box?

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 04:19:55 AM »
Where did you see it was discontinued? I still see it here:

https://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/cat-audio/cat-recorders/product-PCMM10%2FB/
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Offline DancyGeorgia

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2016, 04:48:44 AM »
The PCM-M10 is no longer on the following Sony site:

http://www.sony.com/

And the Pro Sony Asia site actually says "DISCONTINUED":

http://pro.sony-asia.com/pro/lang/en/hk/product/broadcast-products-professional-audio-portable/pcm-m10/overview/

And a number of vendors that used to sell the PCM-M10 are no longer selling it, e.g. Sound Professionals and Sweetwater. The official cases have also been discontinued according to several vendors.

It may be that the PCM-M10 is currently only discontinued in Asia with a new model introduced in Asia. But given that a number of the US vendors are no longer carrying the PCM-M10, I suspect that it will soon also be discontinued and the new model eventually available in the US.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 05:03:55 AM by DancyGeorgia »

Offline voltronic

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2016, 07:18:42 AM »
The SX2000 is the successor to the SX1000, and both are from Sony's voice recorder line.  I don't think it's meant to replace the M10.  It looks interesting though, with Bluetooth remote control as a new feature.  No line in, only a mic in jack.  They mention auto gain control, but I would hope it can be deactivated in software.

http://republicaradio.com/sony-icd-sx2000/
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Offline Sebastian

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2016, 07:27:15 AM »
The ICD SX-2000 indeed looks promising. From browsing the manuals, these points are interesting IMHO:
  • Apparently the directivity of the built-in mics can be changed (not that I'll ever use them anyway).
  • I couldn't find any specs on the mic input or the available gain, other than the fact that is has a minimum input level of 1.5mV (which is somewhere in the middle of the M10's line and mic inputs).
  • There's a remote control app for it (which I find pretty cool).
  • It has an internal rechargeable battery with run times over 15 hours, chargeable via USB.
  • It supports FLAC files. ;D
  • 16 GB of internal memory plus microSD card slot.
  • Street price is around 200 GBP in the UK / 280 EUR in Euroland.

Oh, and the app seems to have a frequency analyser. How cool is that?


Call me a slut, but I think I want one! :D

The SX2000 is the successor to the SX1000, and both are from Sony's voice recorder line.  I don't think it's meant to replace the M10.  It looks interesting though, with Bluetooth remote control as a new feature.  No line in, only a mic in jack.  They mention auto gain control, but I would hope it can be deactivated in software.

If you do a google image search for it, you'll find quite a few promo photos of the unit set up for recording music. The "Hi-Res Audio" logo (whatever that stands for) is placed very prominently on the unit and Sony DE's site. Also, judging from how the app looks, I don't think it's targeted exclusively at voice recording.
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Offline swordfish

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 07:49:43 AM »
The ICD SX-2000 indeed looks promising. From browsing the manuals, these points are interesting IMHO:
  • Apparently the directivity of the built-in mics can be changed (not that I'll ever use them anyway).
  • I couldn't find any specs on the mic input or the available gain, other than the fact that is has a minimum input level of 1.5mV (which is somewhere in the middle of the M10's line and mic inputs).
  • There's a remote control app for it (which I find pretty cool).
  • It has an internal rechargeable battery with run times over 15 hours, chargeable via USB.
  • It supports FLAC files. ;D
  • 16 GB of internal memory plus microSD card slot.
  • Street price is around 200 GBP in the UK / 280 EUR in Euroland.

Oh, and the app seems to have a frequency analyser. How cool is that?


Call me a slut, but I think I want one! :D

The SX2000 is the successor to the SX1000, and both are from Sony's voice recorder line.  I don't think it's meant to replace the M10.  It looks interesting though, with Bluetooth remote control as a new feature.  No line in, only a mic in jack.  They mention auto gain control, but I would hope it can be deactivated in software.

If you do a google image search for it, you'll find quite a few promo photos of the unit set up for recording music. The "Hi-Res Audio" logo (whatever that stands for) is placed very prominently on the unit and Sony DE's site. Also, judging from how the app looks, I don't think it's targeted exclusively at voice recording.

Will it record in 24bit 48khz and will you be able to change levels when the recordder is locked?

Offline Sebastian

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 08:09:12 AM »
Will it record in 24bit 48khz

Looks like it.

and will you be able to change levels when the recordder is locked?

I have no idea.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 09:01:42 AM »
The "Hi-Res Audio" logo (whatever that stands for) is placed very prominently on the unit and Sony DE's site.

It stands for "Sony's all-in marketing ploy based on a specious premise"!  It has featured prominently in the advertising for most of their recent audio products...

Offline Sebastian

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2016, 09:02:10 AM »
The available recording formats listed in the manual are a bit disappointing:



That would pretty much kill it for me.

However, many more sampling rates are listed in the specs:

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Offline voltronic

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2016, 10:16:29 AM »
I'm pretty sure that all of those other sampling rates up to 192kHz are for playback only; not recording.  If it can only record 44.1 and 96, and not even do that rate with the external memory, then I think this recorder is not a great choice for what we do here, compared to what other choices are out there.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2016, 10:22:00 AM by voltronic »
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2016, 12:01:17 PM »
Apparently you can move files internally in the machine between built-in memory and external microSD card. That way, you could record up to 6.5 hours at 24/96 in the internal memory, move them over to the external card, erase the internal, and record another 6.5 hours at 24/96.

Not ideal, but a work-around if the machine sounds good enough to bother about.
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Offline ilduclo

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2016, 12:13:01 PM »
yeah, 44/24 is my preferred recording settings. Sounds like 24 bit not available unless you go 96?

Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2016, 12:20:51 PM »
I'm pretty sure that all of those other sampling rates up to 192kHz are for playback only; not recording.  If it can only record 44.1 and 96, and not even do that rate with the external memory, then I think this recorder is not a great choice for what we do here, compared to what other choices are out there.

It makes sense from an engineers point of view, especially in the light of the DR70D media hulabaloo, to use internal memory for high bit-rate recording. It's a known bandwidth/performance device. Take the variable away so it just works. With the price of memory dropping, I'm hopeful that this trend continues.

In pro video you can see the variable argument in the approaches of Blackmagic Design and AJA video recorders. Both use large removable media. The Hyperlink from BM uses commodity SSD drives, but with a recommended list. AJA sells their own drives, now 1TB SSD with USB3. Guess which product I've heard stories about involving hard to reproduce record errors?

Also, guess which company has the better warranty policy. Which is rarely needed. (Overnighted replacement after the first phone call with knowledgeable engineer, just send problematic unit back. Out of warranty? They attempt to fix it for free, and apologize for charging you shipping.)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 02:33:36 PM by ScoobieKW »
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Offline earmonger

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2016, 01:47:27 PM »
PCM-M10 is still available at Amazon and B&H.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 discontinued? replaced by Sony ICD SX-2000?
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2016, 02:21:42 PM »
Didn't we just go through this rumor a year or so ago?

 

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