Topic: quetions again about line in and mic in for sony m10

[zoo440]

i wrote  a problem about line input with sony m10 before, volume is lower than normal  when i use sp-spsb-11 battery box / sp-cmc 8 mics with line in unity on sony m10
i'd like to know about what are different things between mic in and line in? sound quality? what's the best setting for battery box and sp-cmc 8 mics combination when i record live gigs? should i go mic in with them?  or line in with them? anyone tell me the answering would be welcom

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

If you're using a battery box you will use LINE IN.

Not sure what you mean by "unity" ...I think that is where you would set the levels on the M10 if you were using a mic pre-amp. Since your not I don't think you need to worry about that.

When I run my M10 with a battery box (and I use Countryman B3's with it), I set my M10 at roughly 5 to get good levels (depends on the show obviously).

For you it doesn't matter. If your levels are low, turn up the gain on the M10. If you're at 10 on the gain and can't get good levels, then you have a problem.

[goodcooker]

Use line in and turn up the gain until you get good levels.

If that's not sufficient use mic in at lower gain.

No one can really solve this problem for you, every situation is different, you just have to keep getting out there and doing it until you get it right.

I routinely add up to 20 dB to my recordings in post so I think you may be creating a problem when you actually don't have one. If your recordings sound good when you add gain in your software afterwards quit worrying about it.

[zoo440]

how do i turn up the gain on sony m10? you mean that adjusting rec level? i recorded at level 8, but volume is low, i'm gonna increase it to be more louder in post,
i want to have the recodings to be properly with setting,

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

The knob on the side is what increases your gain. You have it set to 8. I think it goes to 10. If 8 isn't enough...go higher.

I've found that if you're around -12db you can increase your levels in post without audible issues. I've actually been below that in the past and have been completely happy with the results after post processing.

Why not try BOTH at a show. Roll for a bit via LINE IN and then switch to MIC IN...maybe for the opener when you really don't want to keep the recording...or go to a local free show where you can learn your rig.

Personally I think that learning how your individual rig works is part of the fun.

[nulldogmas]

The difference between Mic In and Line In is that Mic In has plug-in power (which you aren't using if you use a battery box) and also more built-in gain. That's it.

If you're not getting enough gain from Line In, by all means switch to Mic In. So long as you're using the same battery box and mics, you should get the same quality, just more gain.

[Pittylabelle]

The difference between Mic In and Line In is that Mic In has plug-in power (which you aren't using if you use a battery box) and also more built-in gain. That's it.

If you're not getting enough gain from Line In, by all means switch to Mic In. So long as you're using the same battery box and mics, you should get the same quality, just more gain.

Hi all,

Question:
Is it possible that a connection via the Mic-In generally adds some "deep bass frequencies" to the recordings?
Scenario 1: Microphone -> Battery Box -> Mic-In -> Old Recorder (Plug-In power switched off)
These frequencies are sometimes so strong that the speakers cause to vibrate.
BTW, my old recorder has no "real" Line-In, just a combination of a Mic-Line-In.

In contrast to all my previous recordings via the Mic-In, I was amazed how "clean/basic" my last live music
recordings, connected via the Line-In jack, sounds.
Scenario 2: Microphone -> Battery Box -> Line-In -> New Recorder

Although the overall recording level is just near -12 dB, the sound quality of these new recordings are excellent.
BTW,  I have to push the level control to maximum, because obviously the adaptor don't provide more gain to
the Line-In of the recorder.

My new equipment so far:
Recorder: Olympus LS-12
Battery Box: Soundman A3 Adaptor (6 Volts)
Microphone: Soundman OKM Rock "Special Variant" (binaural)

Old Recorder: Tascam DR-05 V2

Please, excuse me for my bad English.

[Mike Stranks]

Is it possible that a connection via the Mic-In generally adds some "deep bass frequencies" to the recordings?

No

The only reason this will happen is if you have some settings in the recorder that are altering the sound as it's recorded. Check if you've got compressors or limiters set 'on' or any other 'processing' settings active.

It may be that you're hearing things that haven't been recorded properly/at all before. Quite often with live recordings you'll need to engage a hi-pass filter - typically at c.60 Hz or so. For all intents and purposes, what's going on down there is of no real interest and is only muddying your recordings to an extent.

and finally... is your listening environment good? If you have poor speakers in an acoustically untreated room then you may not be hearing a true representation.

[Pittylabelle]

No

The only reason this will happen is if you have some settings in the recorder that are altering the sound as it's recorded. Check if you've got compressors or limiters set 'on' or any other 'processing' settings active.

It may be that you're hearing things that haven't been recorded properly/at all before. Quite often with live recordings you'll need to engage a hi-pass filter - typically at c.60 Hz or so. For all intents and purposes, what's going on down there is of no real interest and is only muddying your recordings to an extent.

and finally... is your listening environment good? If you have poor speakers in an acoustically untreated room then you may not be hearing a true representation.

Thank you very much for your answer.

No, I never used/use compressors or limiters in my recordings - those things were/are definitely switched off.

I've tested my two recording scenarios even at home, in front of my stereo equipment: Senario 1 = deep frequencies, Scenario 2 = clean sound. Of course no different recorder settings were made. So, Im still worried about those recording methods.

Very often, I hear those deep muddying sounds in recordings from other tapers too.

Did you mean to engage a hi-pass filter during recording or afterwards?

Hmm, if I use a hi-pass filter in iZotope afterwards, these deep sounds are widely eliminated, but I have reservations to apply those to the recordings. BTW, in iZotope there's also another filter called "Remove all low energy" which also apply at about 60 Hz. Tested this too, but the effects are not that much.

Of course I've compared the differnet recordings in the same listening environment and, since I'm using binaural mics, via headphones too.

[nulldogmas]

You're not just comparing Line In to Mic In, you're comparing inputs on two different recorders? I'm not surprised you're getting different results, then. What's the old recorder?

[Pittylabelle]

You're not just comparing Line In to Mic In, you're comparing inputs on two different recorders? I'm not surprised you're getting different results, then. What's the old recorder?

As said before, the old recorder is a Tascam DR-05 V2.

Sorry I forgot to say, I also have compared the two inputs on my new recorder with the same result.

[beatkilla]

Pittilabelle,it seems as though your tascam has the low cut filter turned on in the menus most likely.

[nulldogmas]

Sorry I forgot to say, I also have compared the two inputs on my new recorder with the same result.

That's extremely weird. Could you post some samples?

[Pittylabelle]

That's extremely weird. Could you post some samples?

No problem, here are two samples:

Made in front of my home stereo equipment, with same settings and distance to the speaker.
No Low-cut filter, no compressors, no limiters or any other 'processing' settings active.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B6uqci5m7hradlUwdFVwYThIbzA?usp=sharing

01 OKM-Rock to A3 to Line-In (Olympus LS-12).wav --> this file sounds "flat"
02 OKM-Rock to A3 to Mic-In (Olympus LS-12).wav --> this file sounds "bassy"

Track sample: "Vulcan Worlds - Chick Corea"

[Mike Stranks]

More questions I'm afraid... 

Have you got all the settings on the A3 set to 'flat/off'?
Are you sure that you have no 'high pass/low roll-off' filters set on the recorder?
Have you checked that 'plug-in-power' is OFF on the recorder? (My suspicion is that this could well be the problem...)