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Author Topic: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)  (Read 13754 times)

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Offline pohaku

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2017, 12:57:15 PM »
I don't know for how long, but the F4 is on sale for $599 at Musicians Friend right now.... plus free ground shipping....

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder

Last I saw, it was until February 6, like the sale on the F8.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, pueblo pending
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Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, 788T SSD CL-8, lynx aurora 8


Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job!

Offline frank10

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #91 on: February 06, 2017, 08:26:46 AM »
In my F4, if I slide horizontally the finger on the top rear metal battery slot when F4 is powered from mains, without any cable connected apart mic, I get a little "current" feeling on the finger... it's a "feeling" of some current...
If i power from battery OR if I connect to USB it disappears!
Does it seem sort like not well shielded to GND?

Is it normal? Do you have this, too?

Offline frank10

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2017, 03:37:24 PM »
I have a serious problem with my unit, I will tell you after this test: I would like to know if it's only my unit or if it's a design flaw, so it could be an interesting test.

This is an empirically method to check the problem of my previous post:
Could you test this:

EDIT: test to be made with the unit powered by the transformer, without other cables connected.

get a multimeter, put at 20V AC, put black probe to connect the external metal hirose connector, and the red probe to the rear metal battery slot.
(Probably it's sufficient touching only with the black probe...)
What does it show the multimeter?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:31:52 PM by frank10 »

Kohakoo

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2017, 09:41:53 AM »
Hi, I have posted this in the Zoom F8 forum as well but the units are similar in operation I think. Can anyone tell me how to set up a Cardioid Mic and a Bidirectional Mic to do Mid-Side recording  with the F8.
I have tried different ways and have to end up editing in post to achieve this.
According to the manual, it appears as though you need a dedicated MS Mic to do this. I bought the F8 after reading it can decode Mid-Side.

Thank you Brian

Offline kleiner Rainer

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2017, 02:25:06 PM »
I have a serious problem with my unit, I will tell you after this test: I would like to know if it's only my unit or if it's a design flaw, so it could be an interesting test.

This is an empirically method to check the problem of my previous post:
Could you test this:

EDIT: test to be made with the unit powered by the transformer, without other cables connected.

get a multimeter, put at 20V AC, put black probe to connect the external metal hirose connector, and the red probe to the rear metal battery slot.
(Probably it's sufficient touching only with the black probe...)
What does it show the multimeter?

Simple answer: you are measuring the leakage current between protective earth and the output of the switchmode power supply (aka wall wart or transformer). Primary and secondary side of the Switchmode power supply are connected by a small safety capacitor for two reasons:

1) to pass the EMC test
2) to survive the required high voltage burst/surge test

The AC current you can feel is very low. IIRC the limit is 300microamps or so (depends on the local safety regulations and product class).

BTW digital multimeters with input resistances in the Megohm range will show nonsense in this case - I measured 100V AC on a wire that ran parallel to a mains wire. The voltage disappeared when I pulled out my old analog meter - its called capacitive coupling.

So - no worries. If you still worry, simply run the F4 on battery power, problem solved.

Greetings,

Rainer

doing electronic design and EMC stuff for a living for the last 30 years
recording steam trains since 1985

Offline frank10

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2017, 02:49:55 PM »
Thank you Kleiner Rainer, good explanation, anyway I knew that (I just learnt it a week ago). And if there is USB cable connected or i.e. other XLR main Out cable, those connections put it to GND and the measured Voltage disappears, so the test must be done without any cable connected.

Mine it's not a safety concern, after all the power switching is only 12V.
It's another *real* problem related to quality recording with mics. I really suspect this is correlated with problems I have -I will tell after someone test :) -  : in fact going to battery solves the problem!

So I would only to know if other owners of F4/F8 measure it (I know it's not a "real/correct" measure, but anyway it confirms there is/there isn't this leakage, as it's instead possible not to have it if the unit has some different design: after all, the most metal case of different units I touch don't have this, it means it's possible to avoid it; so it could be only my unit...).

« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 03:44:10 PM by frank10 »

Online Colin Liston

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2017, 09:36:47 AM »
I've read through this thread but I must have missed it, but can someone tell me if the F4 is the same as the F8 with the line level input can being achieved by using 1/4" vs xlr.

So xlr will be mic level and the 1/4" would be line level?   
Occasionally....music mics record

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #97 on: March 23, 2017, 11:45:30 AM »
I've read through this thread but I must have missed it, but can someone tell me if the F4 is the same as the F8 with the line level input can being achieved by using 1/4" vs xlr.

So xlr will be mic level and the 1/4" would be line level?

yes
MK22's / MK41's / MK41v's / MK4v's / MK4's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s
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Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #98 on: August 16, 2017, 11:18:13 PM »
I feel like an idiot asking this, but how do I use a pair of mini input mics (Countryman B3, CA14) with this?  I tried plugging them into the 5/6 input on the side, and got nothing.   ???
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2017, 04:25:24 AM »
^ Plug-in power turned on?

Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #100 on: August 17, 2017, 08:09:52 AM »
I tried it with PIP and with a battery box.  Still couldn't find how to set the levels of 5/6.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #101 on: August 17, 2017, 01:44:35 PM »
It's not immediately obvious how you set gain for 5/6 from the manual.  When you press the "Input 5/6" button, you see a screen with Input, level, fader, etc. Input turns 5/6 on or to RTN. If you go down to level, don'r you get a screen allowing for control of the level? Same for Fader, pan, etc.

The menus on the F8 are a lot more intuitive. It took me a while to figure out how to set the fader level for tracks on the F4 whereas its immediately obvious how to do it on the F8...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:46:29 PM by rippleish20 »
MK22's / MK41's / MK41v's / MK4v's / MK4's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s
KCY 250/5 and Nbob KCY (x2) > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox  / SP-SPSB-11 Battery Box
Zoom F8 / Sony M-10 / Mixpre-6 / Tascam DR-100mkIII

Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #102 on: August 17, 2017, 02:02:31 PM »
It's not immediately obvious how you set gain for 5/6 from the manual.  When you press the "Input 5/6" button, you see a screen with Input, level, fader, etc. Input turns 5/6 on or to RTN. If you go down to level, don'r you get a screen allowing for control of the level?
I don't have it in front of me right now, but if I remember correctly when I tried the "level" option it gave me two choices: -10 dBV or +4 dBu.

Edit: I went ahead and contacted Zoom to get an answer about this.  When using the 5/6 mini jack input the level can ONLY be set to -10 dBV or +4 dBu from that menu...there's no other adjustment for that 5/6 input.  Guess I should have gotten this clarification before buying it.  :facepalm: 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 02:39:53 PM by heathen »
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
Decks: Zoom F4 | Tascam DR-70D | Roland R-05

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #103 on: August 17, 2017, 03:01:31 PM »
That's quite strange.

As solutions, you could possibly:

1. add the dual XLR module, but then you would lose the PIP
2. It looks like you can control fader setting. Is so, you can reduce the L/R track to just 5 and 6 post fader and control gain via the fader.

MK22's / MK41's / MK41v's / MK4v's / MK4's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s
KCY 250/5 and Nbob KCY (x2) > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox  / SP-SPSB-11 Battery Box
Zoom F8 / Sony M-10 / Mixpre-6 / Tascam DR-100mkIII

Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #104 on: August 17, 2017, 03:09:39 PM »
2. It looks like you can control fader setting. Is so, you can reduce the L/R track to just 5 and 6 post fader and control gain via the fader.

Interesting, I'll give that a try.
Mics: Core Sound TetraMic | Countryman B3 | CA-14 omnis | AT853 cards | AKG 460/ck61 | Studio Projects CS5
Decks: Zoom F4 | Tascam DR-70D | Roland R-05

 

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