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Offline 108 Ohms

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Shinola
« on: December 07, 2016, 09:55:07 PM »
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 10:47:38 PM »
I love the retro Empire/Rek o Kut look. I also love their business model.

Offline Moke

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 11:47:20 PM »
Run it into a Schitt phono preamp, and you got Schitt and Shinola.
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Offline heesu

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 09:09:45 PM »
They sell the dumbest, most overpriced shit I've ever seen. 

Example: https://www.shinola.com/power-supply-5-port-usb.html

Offline jefflester

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 09:34:13 PM »
They sell the dumbest, most overpriced shit I've ever seen. 

Example: https://www.shinola.com/power-supply-5-port-usb.html
But it has a "custom 45-degree wall plug" !!
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 11:34:46 PM »
USA built products.  A lot of products built in Detroit, which needs some love...  what's the problem??
$6.50 for a tin of mink oil...  I bet it makes a leather baseball mitt feel like a baby's butt!
Nice looking turn table too. 
When I'm willing to plop a few bills down, there is a nice lookin' Shinola wrist watch under the Filson brand that has my eye.

.....I had no idea that they were so "diversified" with their products... all over the place..
I do agree that the extention cords are crazy spendy...  I hope that they're providing good jobs to the folks in Detroit though.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline heesu

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 11:48:41 PM »
It's mostly fraud / bait and switch. 

I've heard their quality sucks from friends who have owned their stuff.

Just research them.

Offline 108 Ohms

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 05:10:20 AM »
It's mostly fraud / bait and switch. 

I've heard their quality sucks from friends who have owned their stuff.

Just research them.

Please provide any fact
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 06:01:35 PM »
I'm all for supporting U.S.-made products, and do so as often as I can, but has anyone come across an in-depth review of their turntable that cites hard, real-world measurements? 
If I were to drop $2k+ on a TT, I'd probably be more apt to spend it on one of raymonda's gorgeous builds.

Offline 108 Ohms

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 06:44:24 PM »
I'm all for supporting U.S.-made products, and do so as often as I can, but has anyone come across an in-depth review of their turntable that cites hard, real-world measurements? 
If I were to drop $2k+ on a TT, I'd probably be more apt to spend it on one of raymonda's gorgeous builds.

Interesting, with due respect, are measurements made on the customs?
Wow & Flutter, tracking angles, tracking consistency, pressure consistency, frequency response, dynamic range, etc.
I'm not Julian Hirsch, so I'm not sure how to stack rank these, or which are important, or what else is relevant.
I appreciate that there is an aesthetic component to a beautiful TT that cannot be denied.
However, I am not truly impressed by vinyl, even though it was all that I listened to for 20 years.

Fundamentally, I'm a numbers guy when it comes to audio components.
Instead of forcing my brain and ears to compensate to deviations from baseline, flat response, I prefer to begin with it and keep my ears attuned to on a reproducible standard.
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 07:00:14 PM »
Didn't mean any offense, 108, but other than some articles about the company and how nice the table looks, I haven't come across any reviews about how well it actually, y'know, sounds and reproduces music. :)  Honest inquiry as $2000 $2500 is a sizable investment. 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 11:25:01 AM by Fried Chicken Boy »

Offline Moke

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 07:04:34 PM »
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Offline Moke

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 07:07:10 PM »
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 07:45:56 PM »
This is a table made mostly by OEM VPI parts, which is a very good thing. It is priced right for what is in it and most likely will last a lifetime. Whether I would buy it is questionable. There are other tables I would choose. But it is sure pretty and most likely, given its pedigree, sounds good, too.

Fremer had some issue with QC but I would think that what he had issues with are easily correctable.

Now, if the table came without arm and without phono section......I would be interested. I think they hit the nail on the head with looks.

Shameless plug.......if you like the retro looks my Hot Rod TD 150 is up for sale for $2500.

Offline jlykos

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2017, 08:57:58 AM »
Fremer wrote a review of this turntable. Reading between the lines, it has a ways to go before it can be considered a finished product. I wonder if Shinola picked that up from VPI as well.

That company straight sucks. Overpriced, mediocre garbage. It's trying to build a "heritage" where none existed. The owners bought Filson, which is a tragedy, because Filson actually has some nice stuff. They are a couple of venture capitalists whose focus is creating quality "brands" instead of products. I'm not in the least interested in their brand. Can they produce a turntable that offers value to the customer? Judging from Fremer's review, the answer is a resounding no.
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Offline 108 Ohms

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 06:31:08 PM »
Didn't mean any offense, 108, but other than some articles about the company and how nice the table looks, I haven't come across any reviews about how well it actually, y'know, sounds and reproduces music. :)  Honest inquiry as $2000 is a sizable investment.

Totally not offended, and sorry if it came off that way.
I was born in NYC, and tend to be brusk, and thick-skinned.  (thick-headed, too?!)

I really like the numbers, and as I've always said, listen to and enjoy what your ears find pleasing.
My theory is keep it clean and neutral and my brain will adjust best.
I would be the first to agree that "one size does not fit all" with most things audio.
Of course, cryro cables and other deep-end stuff does leave me shaking me head at the absurdity and big lack of science.
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Offline heesu

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 06:40:21 PM »
At the very least, shinola is selling their "brand" with this.  Why pay that mark up for something that they're not even behind?


Offline capnhook

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2017, 08:23:45 PM »
I guess most of their marks don't know shit from Shinola..
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 12:12:12 AM »
I think folks are being too hard on Shinola. I don't know the micro details but, in regards to the macro, I like what they are doing. They've done more for Detroit than most and they are not putting out crap, banging gangs or selling heroin.

As for their table, for what it is, it is a good all in one product. Guess what. VPI doesn't make their product either. Most of the actual manufacturing is sourced out. Their employees assemble the tables. I know, at least they design them. Well, remember, in the beginning they didn't design either but rather used mostly OEM parts. That's not to say that is what Shinola is going to do but there is nothing wrong with that. VPI never did and never will make their motors. Hurst does. But then again most companies don't make motors. They buy stock, off the shelf motors.

Many tables you see are actually OEM parts sourced out. Many arms were or are made by Jelco. Many tables are OEM ProJect parts. Would you rather have this done over seas or here in the states, with actual quality placed on it, jobs made and taxes collected.

Ask Detroit whether they like Shinola. I think the answer is obvious.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 12:22:35 AM by raymonda »

Offline heesu

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 04:29:10 AM »
I always get a kick out of people defending companies?  Why?  You love that they exploit a city's name with shitty, overpriced bullshit?


Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2017, 07:31:17 AM »
I always get a kick out of people defending companies?  Why?  You love that they exploit a city's name with shitty, overpriced bullshit?

Break down the turntable and explain how it is a shitty product and over price bullshit. I just don't see it and I'll call a spade a spade when I see it.

Offline heesu

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2017, 08:45:18 AM »
I was speaking in more general terms, not just the turntable.  Seriously, look through their website and try not to laugh.

Still don't see how buying a faux luxury brand's first attempt at a product is going to be the best product at whatever price point it's being sold at.

Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2017, 09:41:48 AM »
(Still don't see how buying a faux luxury brand's first attempt at a product is going to be the best product at whatever price point it's being sold at.)

Luxury brand is relative. Their prices are on the extremely low, low end of the cost of a luxury item. I've looked at their products and I don't find their prices to be out of line. Waterford is a U.S. based company that makes top of the line steel bike frame, with a long wait time. They are their OEM manufacturer for their bikes. That is top quality and Shinola prices their product accordingly and some would say on the low side. Again, the same goes for their turntable. They use very good OEM manufacturers for parts. They same can't be said for many other labels out there.

To disparage them whole cloth because you don't like their branding or business model compromises your argument and lends one to conclude that you don't know shit from Shinola. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Offline heesu

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2017, 10:13:14 AM »
(Still don't see how buying a faux luxury brand's first attempt at a product is going to be the best product at whatever price point it's being sold at.)

Luxury brand is relative. Their prices are on the extremely low, low end of the cost of a luxury item. I've looked at their products and I don't find their prices to be out of line. Waterford is a U.S. based company that makes top of the line steel bike frame, with a long wait time. They are their OEM manufacturer for their bikes. That is top quality and Shinola prices their product accordingly and some would say on the low side. Again, the same goes for their turntable. They use very good OEM manufacturers for parts. They same can't be said for many other labels out there.

To disparage them whole cloth because you don't like their branding or business model compromises your argument and lends one to conclude that you don't know shit from Shinola. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Enjoy your $185 extension cord, I guess.

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2017, 11:12:33 AM »
(Still don't see how buying a faux luxury brand's first attempt at a product is going to be the best product at whatever price point it's being sold at.)

Luxury brand is relative. Their prices are on the extremely low, low end of the cost of a luxury item. I've looked at their products and I don't find their prices to be out of line. Waterford is a U.S. based company that makes top of the line steel bike frame, with a long wait time. They are their OEM manufacturer for their bikes. That is top quality and Shinola prices their product accordingly and some would say on the low side. Again, the same goes for their turntable. They use very good OEM manufacturers for parts. They same can't be said for many other labels out there.

To disparage them whole cloth because you don't like their branding or business model compromises your argument and lends one to conclude that you don't know shit from Shinola. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Enjoy your $185 extension cord, I guess.

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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2017, 12:16:09 PM »
Whether you would buy it, you can't deny that it is made with quality. I've seen much more outrageous things in audio. This ain't one of them.

Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2017, 12:50:32 PM »
(Enjoy your $185 extension cord, I guess.)

The basic extension cord is $75.00 not $185.00

The $185 is a 6 outlet with 2 usb hubs, which is not an extention cord. (Never let the truth get in the way of a good story) Anyway, everything looks to be of decent to very good quality. DIY would cost at least $45 to $90 plus time. That's not much of a mark up. I guess you could go to Lowes and buys one made in China for $25.00 and of much less quality

Offline acidjack

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2017, 05:47:57 PM »
I'm all for supporting U.S.-made products, and do so as often as I can, but has anyone come across an in-depth review of their turntable that cites hard, real-world measurements? 
If I were to drop $2k+ on a TT, I'd probably be more apt to spend it on one of raymonda's gorgeous builds.

Also, I love my Ortofon Blue cartridge, but a TT that's $2500 with one is some hipster bullshit. 2nd on Raymonda.
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2017, 08:52:26 PM »
Gosh guys. Thanks for the nice compliment.

Offline acidjack

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2017, 10:59:39 AM »
(Enjoy your $185 extension cord, I guess.)

The basic extension cord is $75.00 not $185.00

The $185 is a 6 outlet with 2 usb hubs, which is not an extention cord. (Never let the truth get in the way of a good story) Anyway, everything looks to be of decent to very good quality. DIY would cost at least $45 to $90 plus time. That's not much of a mark up. I guess you could go to Lowes and buys one made in China for $25.00 and of much less quality

You do make some fair points here. Also (not to take this to the PZ) the fact that their products are made in America and also kind of expensive relative to stuff made in, say, China, is not an accident. If you want people paid a fair wage to make stuff, it tends to cost more.

The better comparison is to other U.S.-made stuff. I'm not knowledgeable enough about U.S. turntables to make a judgement, but $2500 is about the same price as a mid-range table from Clearaudio or Rega, whose products are (AFAIK) made in Europe, where labor is even more expensive. So it's hard for me to think $2500 is a "good deal" or a fair deal unless the TT is really, really good, and that cartridge, while a nice mid-entry level cartridge, doesn't feel like it's appropriate for a TT at that price. Is that fair?
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2017, 08:23:55 AM »
I'm not saying this is the table to buy. I have no idea how it sounds other than what some reviews have said about it. Rather, it is rurnkey and ready to plaY, it has sourced parts from VPI and appears to be of good quality. Whether Rega, Clear Audio or any other manufactures makes a better table at this price, well, I don't know. But, they do not offer a package. This table comes with a phono preamp and cartridge, so you could say that the table is around $1800 and the others add to the cost, for better or worse. In today market, that price is about what is expected for what you get here.

Really, there are a ton of other tables out there that are way more expensive and a much, much less value. The price of this table has become a tempest in the teapot.

IMO Rega make a great arm and value oriented table......but it is mostly injection molded plastic and mdf. Their success is in how they were able to exploit the virtues of their arm in a budget and inexpensive table, which kept them viable during lean years.  When you buy a Rega 3 or lower you are eventually on an upgrade path that, in the end, will eliminate all but the arm. But that is another story and doesn't take away the good value, right out of the box, that Rega's are.

Offline perks

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2017, 10:08:24 PM »
There's a Shinola store on my block. I went in once to check out the merch. From what I can tell beardos with skinny jeans love this stuff.  :laugh:
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Offline vwmule

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2017, 03:57:44 PM »
Raymonda, do you have recommendations for tables that are in the range of $800-$1,500? I mean ready to go, not something you'd assemble.
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2017, 05:23:52 PM »
Raymonda, do you have recommendations for tables that are in the range of $800-$1,500? I mean ready to go, not something you'd assemble.

I haven't tried a ton of turntable's, but I just picked up one of these. Very happy. $800.

https://www.turntablelab.com/products/pro-ject-debut-carbon-dc-esprit-sb-turntable-ttl-upgrade

Upgraded from a Pro-ject RPM 1.3 (http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=rpm13). Totally worth it. Easy to hear the difference between the two.

I thought the RPM 1.3 was okay. It always had a very slight hum when playing the record. The Debut Carbon is pretty close to silent with the extra noise.

The only thing I needed to do with the Debut was put it together and follow the easy to understand directions to set up the counter weight.
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2017, 12:44:55 AM »
There are a lot of tables in the price range of 800 to 1500. I would go with something used, as that would give you the best value.

Rega p2
Rega p3
Technics sl1200 mkii or sp15
Aristion RD11
Kenwood kd500, 550, 600 or 650
Linn basic
AR the table or es1
Thorens 125
Thorens 126
VPI hw 19 Mikiv
VPI hw 19jr
VPI Scout master
Linn LP12

Further, Acoustic Sounds, ClearAudio, Basis, Mitchell, Nottingham, Well Tempered, ProJect all make great tables and worth looking into.

The best value is a used Rega p2 for around 250. Couple it with a Denon 103 modded for another 250 and a new preamp that Sutherland is coming out with in the 800 price range and you are good to go.

I was just communicating with Ron and he gave me a early look at this new budget model and it looks great. No I haven't heard it but Ron has never made a bad sounding phono stage and this one should be the new gold standard for budget pres. that leaves you with a 250 under 1500. Use that on some Tangospinner upgrades to the Rega. Then sit back and enjoy.



« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 12:47:11 AM by raymonda »

Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2017, 12:51:00 AM »
The tables in the list I made have varying degrees of set up. The Rega is the easiest to use.

Offline vwmule

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2017, 11:41:49 AM »
Thanks for the advice. I've also been eyeing a Scout Jr. ... worth it or is your route better?
Mics: DPA 4023 / AKG C426B / AKG ck61 ck62
Recorders: Zoom F8 / Tascam DR-70D / Sony M-10
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Shinola
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2017, 12:44:55 PM »
The scout jr. is a fine table but new at 1300 not as good a value. It has a gimbled arm and not their better unipivot. You can find it used at around 750 or so but even at that price you are better off with a used HW 19 mkiv with a JMW memorial arm. They come up at around 900, used. That will keep you happy well into the twilight years.

That said you will still need a cartridge and preamp if you don't have one, adding to your budget.

Honestly, I think the Rega 250 or 300 arm is one of the best values in hifi, which Is why I recommended it. Plus it is turnkey, too. And, used at 250 to 300 the best value today. With after market tweaks you can push it even further, while keeping it simple.

The HW 19 mkiv. Is buy it and forget it. It is great the way it is.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 10:33:30 PM by raymonda »

 

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