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Poll

Does your R-05 capture audible artifacts when adjusting recording levels?

Yes, using Line In
1 (25%)
No, using Line In
3 (75%)
Yes, using Mic In (Low)
0 (0%)
No, using Mic In (Low)
0 (0%)
Yes, using Mic In (High)
0 (0%)
No, using Mic In (High)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Author Topic: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment  (Read 814 times)

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« on: February 23, 2017, 02:10:00 AM »
I ran through an initial test with my new Roland R-05 recently.  And I came across an issue:  running line-in (haven't tried mic-in), every click of the Rec Level button introduces an artifact into the recording -- a quiet, but clearly evident, 'click'.  Hmph.

I'm cranky about the artifact -- it essentially means I have to correctly guess my rec levels pre-show, or suffer the consequences (artifacts) of adjusting rec levels during the recording.  I'm going to use the R-05 with a Naiant IPA with stepped gain of 0, +12, and +24, so I can't effectively 'trim' my levels using the preamp.

In my searches on TS, the only reference I've seen to rec level adjustments and artifacts is this one:

Unlike many other decks there is no audible artifact if you adjust the record level one step at a time so if you start out too loud or too quiet feel no reservations about resetting the gain as you move into the set.

The above suggests I may have a problem with my unit, but bombdiggity's and mine only represent two data points.  What say all you other R-05 owners?

Offline larrysellers

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 12:05:31 PM »
My R-05 does not seem to do this. This is a test recording using the line in and gradually increasing the gain on the R-05.

https://soundcloud.com/philataper/r-05-input-level-adjustment-test
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Offline spyder9

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 04:21:10 PM »
"Set it and forget it"  I do that on everything I record.  Then fix it in post.  Try it , Brian.

Offline jbell

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 06:19:47 PM »
The R09HR had the digi noise with gain adjustment.  I never heard it when I ran one, but I usually used it for loud music.  Maybe the R05 inherited that problem. 
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Offline robeti

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 06:20:50 PM »
"Set it and forget it"  I do that on everything I record.  Then fix it in post.  Try it , Brian.


me too. I don't even check levels. Never went wrong.
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2017, 12:16:30 AM »
"Set it and forget it"  I do that on everything I record.  Then fix it in post.  Try it , Brian.

me too. I don't even check levels. Never went wrong.

I typically do "set it and forget it".  I'm not a levels rider.  The issue, in this case, is the "set it" part.  I've always had the flexibility to guess levels in advance, and then make a quick, one-time adjustment (with no noise artifacts) at the start of the performance.  So how do you set your initial levels?  Just guesstimate pre-performance and don't adjust during the actual recording no matter how far off you are?

I record everything from ambient nature sounds to unamplified small group vocal performances to amplified acoustic music to painfully loud amplified club shows.  And, sometimes, there's no telling quite where on the loudness scale the volume may fall -- I've been to club shows where the talkers next to me overwhelm the music sound source, or an amplified acoustic show that makes me glad I have my earplugs.  This is one of the main issues:  unexpected variation in sound source volume.  The other is minimizing gear-related noise and avoiding clipping for unamplified performances with large dynamic range.

For a standard club show, I could be off as much as ~30 dB (for example, plan for a quiet show and end up having it much, much louder, or vice versa).  Obviously, I could always err on the side of caution, setting levels very conservatively.  For unamplified sources with large dynamic range, I could be off even more.

I suppose once I use my new gear enough, I'll be able to guess reasonably closely and adjust in post...all the while prepared to deal with exceptions on the fly, if absolutely necessary.


At any rate, if I have a defective recorder, I want it repaired or replaced under warranty either way.

Offline dallman

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 02:00:12 AM »
I have 2 R05's and had one I sold. I never had the issue on any of them. Like others I try to set and forget, but I often make an adjustment at the beginning of a show, and have never had any digi noise. I run mics to either Pipsqueak, Tinybox or CAUgly into line in on the R05. I have also used the R05 with my USB Pre2 either from the RCA or the 1/8 headphone out as a backup again into the line in.
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 11:29:51 AM »
I ran through an initial test with my new Roland R-05 recently.  And I came across an issue:  running line-in (haven't tried mic-in), every click of the Rec Level button introduces an artifact into the recording -- a quiet, but clearly evident, 'click'.  Hmph.

I'm cranky about the artifact -- it essentially means I have to correctly guess my rec levels pre-show, or suffer the consequences (artifacts) of adjusting rec levels during the recording.  I'm going to use the R-05 with a Naiant IPA with stepped gain of 0, +12, and +24, so I can't effectively 'trim' my levels using the preamp.

In my searches on TS, the only reference I've seen to rec level adjustments and artifacts is this one:

Unlike many other decks there is no audible artifact if you adjust the record level one step at a time so if you start out too loud or too quiet feel no reservations about resetting the gain as you move into the set.

The above suggests I may have a problem with my unit, but bombdiggity's and mine only represent two data points.  What say all you other R-05 owners?

I'd forgotten about that annoyance but as I said with mine if adjusted discretely one increment at a time it should not make noise.  If you suddenly realize it's way hot and mash the button to quickly adjust the levels you will hear an artifact.  Try both and see.  I'm sure I found mine behaved differently depending on which way I  tried to adjust. 

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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 01:34:02 PM »
I'd forgotten about that annoyance but as I said with mine if adjusted discretely one increment at a time it should not make noise.  If you suddenly realize it's way hot and mash the button to quickly adjust the levels you will hear an artifact.  Try both and see.  I'm sure I found mine behaved differently depending on which way I  tried to adjust.

Thanks, bd.  I tested rapid sequences of single-taps, 10 at a time, as well as holding down the button.  I'll try slower single taps to see if it's still audible.

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 04:20:20 PM »
I'd forgotten about that annoyance but as I said with mine if adjusted discretely one increment at a time it should not make noise.  If you suddenly realize it's way hot and mash the button to quickly adjust the levels you will hear an artifact.  Try both and see.  I'm sure I found mine behaved differently depending on which way I  tried to adjust.

Thanks, bd.  I tested rapid sequences of single-taps, 10 at a time, as well as holding down the button.  I'll try slower single taps to see if it's still audible.

I'd be surprised but suppose anything is possible.  It may be how the feature was implemented if it is audible regardless.  I don't think I noticed it when adjusting slowly though I admit I mostly practice set it and forget it.  Izoptope RX works wonders for an occasional clip if that's the result.  it might also fix your artifacts if that's the conclusion... 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline robeti

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2017, 07:55:30 PM »
"Set it and forget it"  I do that on everything I record.  Then fix it in post.  Try it , Brian.

me too. I don't even check levels. Never went wrong.


I typically do "set it and forget it".  I'm not a levels rider.  The issue, in this case, is the "set it" part.  I've always had the flexibility to guess levels in advance, and then make a quick, one-time adjustment (with no noise artifacts) at the start of the performance.  So how do you set your initial levels?  Just guesstimate pre-performance and don't adjust during the actual recording no matter how far off you are?

"

I'm aware that I don't tape as much different types of sounds / shows as you do but maybe it will help you a bit nevertheless:


I mainly stealth loud pop/rock/metal shows in bars/clubs/arenas/stadiums
In those kinda situations I typically use a setup like this:

mics (at-u853's / jb mod nak's / church audio) > church audio battery box > r-05


- I always set the R-05 at recording level 40. Check levels maybe once during a loud song and then forget about it.


« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 07:57:10 PM by robeti »
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Offline Jerseyboy

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Re: Roland R-05 rec levels and noise artifacts during adjustment
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2017, 10:30:35 AM »
I refer to those artifacts as mini mutes.  I have this problem with my R09hr using the LINE-IN.  When I look at the wav file in my digi-editor I see tiny gaps where I'm raising or lowering gain.  If you close the gain it usually doesn't affect the audio UNLESS it is when I hold down the record level toggle.

 

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