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Author Topic: Sound Devices New MixPre Series  (Read 30013 times)

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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #120 on: April 26, 2017, 07:06:47 PM »

That conflicts with what Paul has posted on JWSound:
Quote
Folks - you can use channel knobs to adjust your ISO levels. To do this, you would select Custom mode and set Record to Advanced and leave Channel set to Basic. When Channel is set to Basic, ISO levels are post channel knob and when Record is set to Advanced, ISOs can be armed.

So which SD rep has the correct info? 

Hopefully Paul will chime in today and give us the straight goods.
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #121 on: April 26, 2017, 07:10:58 PM »

That conflicts with what Paul has posted on JWSound:
Quote
Folks - you can use channel knobs to adjust your ISO levels. To do this, you would select Custom mode and set Record to Advanced and leave Channel set to Basic. When Channel is set to Basic, ISO levels are post channel knob and when Record is set to Advanced, ISOs can be armed.

So which SD rep has the correct info? 

Hopefully Paul will chime in today and give us the straight goods.

I sent him a pm encouraging him to do so.
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Offline dactylus

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #122 on: April 26, 2017, 07:35:21 PM »

No gain control will be a non-starter for me too.  All set to cancel the MixPre-6 order immediately!

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Offline fobstl

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #123 on: April 26, 2017, 10:30:33 PM »
This video has a segment on the gain starting around 1:40 but the explanation after that doesn't really clear things up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7OofxvbJfM

Offline vwmule

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #124 on: April 26, 2017, 11:27:02 PM »
The befuddled look on the interviewer's face, from the start, says it all ...
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Offline Paul Isaacs

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #125 on: April 27, 2017, 02:51:51 AM »
Quote

Is it possible to attach one Mix-Pre-6 on top of another with the camera mount screws?

Thanks.

Yes

Offline Paul Isaacs

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #126 on: April 27, 2017, 02:54:20 AM »
Quote

Here's what I'm thinking: my recording is mostly podcast centered. I'm usually recording two, sometimes three, speakers. The MP-3 seems ideal for my general uses. Every once and a while I record four speakers and I've floated the idea of a panel conversation with five people for a couple of topics. I'd like to have each mic in that scenario record to its own track. Can I plug three mics into the MP-3's XLR inputs, then run two more via my MixPre into the 1/8" auxiliary input with mics 1 through 3 recording only to ISO tracks and only the auxiliary inputs routed to the stereo mix? In the end, I want each speaker on its own track (once the L/R stereo mix is split in my DAW)?

I have a feeling your answer will likely be, "look at the MP-6."


Look at the MP-6 :)

Offline Paul Isaacs

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #127 on: April 27, 2017, 03:00:18 AM »
Quote

I just got off the phone with sound devices and you cannot control gain with the knobs in advance mode, you have to go through the menu screen.  Game changer for me.  I'm cancelling my preorder.

You can control the ISO track gain with the channel knobs. This is achievable in Custom mode, not Advanced mode.

Offline tgakidis

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #128 on: April 27, 2017, 03:58:49 AM »
Quote

I just got off the phone with sound devices and you cannot control gain with the knobs in advance mode, you have to go through the menu screen.  Game changer for me.  I'm cancelling my preorder.

You can control the ISO track gain with the channel knobs. This is achievable in Custom mode, not Advanced mode.

Thanks for the clearing that up Paul!
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #129 on: April 27, 2017, 06:47:57 AM »
Quote

I just got off the phone with sound devices and you cannot control gain with the knobs in advance mode, you have to go through the menu screen.  Game changer for me.  I'm cancelling my preorder.

You can control the ISO track gain with the channel knobs. This is achievable in Custom mode, not Advanced mode.

Is that something you can set and forget? In other words, can you set it up so you just power it on and the channel knobs are immediately available to control the ISO track gain, or do you have to go through some menus and button pushes everytime?
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #130 on: April 27, 2017, 06:48:51 AM »
Quote

Is it possible to attach one Mix-Pre-6 on top of another with the camera mount screws?

Thanks.

Yes

Great! Thanks.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

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Offline willndmb

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #131 on: April 27, 2017, 09:20:27 AM »
Quote

I just got off the phone with sound devices and you cannot control gain with the knobs in advance mode, you have to go through the menu screen.  Game changer for me.  I'm cancelling my preorder.

You can control the ISO track gain with the channel knobs. This is achievable in Custom mode, not Advanced mode.
since I'm sure this will come up again...
"Folks - you can use channel knobs to adjust your ISO levels. To do this, you would select Custom mode and set Record to Advanced and leave Channel set to Basic. When Channel is set to Basic, ISO levels are post channel knob and when Record is set to Advanced, ISOs can be armed."
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Offline johnw

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #132 on: April 27, 2017, 10:02:57 AM »
But can this custom mode/settings be made the default at power on? I for one would inevitably screw this process up at some point where I'm setting up in a hurry if it can't be made the default when I turn on the recorder.
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Offline rippleish20

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #133 on: April 27, 2017, 10:46:56 AM »
All I can say is it will be interesting to see these things in action. The newest version of the manual is much improved but it still seems to conflict with some of what I'm reading in terms of Channel knobs & the ISOs.

--------------------------------------
SD support answered me with:

Hello Alan,

To access the gain, it will require you to be in either Advance Mode or Custom Mode (Custom with Advance Channel on) and you'll be able to access the gain by itself. To access the gain, pressing the channel knob down will put the user in the Input Channel Settings (much like how toggling the 6-Series PFL toggle). There, you'll be able to adjust the gain and the knob will become the fader.

Hope that has cleared it up for you!

Dennis Witt
Sound Devices, LLC

--------------------------------------
The manual now says in Custom mode Gain options : "Lets you access to (two-stage) Channel Gain controls, limiters and linking."

And under User Presets:

"Flexibility is the MixPre-6’s M.O. To make it easy for you to use the MixPre-6 in a wide variety of situations, we created a slick feature where you can store and recall snapshots of all of the MixPre-6’s settings. There are four internal Preset slots available. Also, the SD card can store virtually unlimited Presets."

http://cdn.sounddevices.com/download/guides/MixPre6-UG_en.pdf
« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 10:53:34 AM by rippleish20 »
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Offline DATBRAD

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Re: Sound Devices New MixPre Series
« Reply #134 on: April 27, 2017, 05:41:13 PM »
Here is how I imagine the workflow with the Mixpre-6, based on these recent clarifications:

    In Basic Mode, the unit operates like a true field mixer. The user, with headphone monitoring, can make a live matrix mix on the fly down to a 2 track stereo recording. The channel knobs control the gain for each channel, but the only thing recorded is the final stereo mix. If only one pair of mics or one pair of line input tracks are being recorded, then the unit works basically like any other stereo recorder. The control knobs work just like we are used to with other recorders, and there is the option to control gain by individual channel, or by linking them to one knob for gain, with the one next to it serving as a L/R pan control knob.

    In Advanced or Custom mode, the knobs still work as they do in Basic Mode, controlling each channel in relation to a mix down to stereo tracks. The difference here is that in addition to the mixing mode, the ISO tracks can be recorded separately, so a post mix version can be put together afterwards. Since these tracks are recorded "pre fader", it allows the user to play around with a live mix on the fly, while still having the individual tracks captured without being impacted by the user riding the faders for the stereo live mix.

    Gain for each channel can be adjusted separately, by pushing each channel knob individually to adjust the gain for one specific channel at a time. The limitation here is that you can't see on the display the relationships between tracks with all tracks peak levels displayed on the touchscreen at the same time. This is a clear departure in workflow from a 744T or an R44, where all the tracks are shown on the display and you can adjust one track while seeing a meter display of all the tracks at the same time. This situation explains the reason for the paragraph on page 20 of the user guide "A Little Bit About Gain". In a nutshell, the message calls for a change in thinking about the relationship of gain and how it impacts the final result. Trying to record an ideal level that is maximized to be as close to 0db on the meters as possible, something we all worked towards with 16bit recording in the past, is not necessary.

Sound Devices is proposing that since the preamps have such a huge range between the noise floor and the maximum input level, it's a waste of time trying to record the ISO tracks with perfect levels. Even if the ISO tracks are all recorded with maximum peaks only hitting -12 or -6 on the meters, there will be no issue with bumping the gain in post to -1 or 0 if desired. A practical example would go like this: Assume you are interested in recording a simple matrix, blending 2 mic channels with 2 soundboard channels. You can play around with delay on the mics to account for the distance from the stage, and use headphones to mix the 4 channels together and that mix will be recorded on the dedicated stereo tracks. Meanwhile, since headphones can be very misleading in a loud concert environment, the individual ISO tracks set to a moderate level with max peaks at -6db on the meters will serve as a backup, offering a second chance to create a mix later in post.

So, it's not perfect by any means, but when I think about it my initial skepticism I realize that it may be based on a perceived need that really doesn't exist anymore. In fact, it could be viewed as a benefit. With this unit you can be all over the map with the level adjustments for the live mix without worry, because if you screw up you still have an unaltered version of the ISO tracks preserved to try it again later in post. And, if you need to add gain to any of those tracks to lift them up in volume, they claim the difference between the tracks with bumped up levels in post vs. levels captured at the "ideal" maximized word length to begin with is no longer an issue worth worrying about.

I'm still not convinced this unit is what I would want for a multitrack recorder at the sub-$1k price point, but the ISO gain workflow is not a show stopper by any means. I'm still holding out hope that Marantz Pro will introduce that PMD-706. From looking closely at the banner for that 6 channel unit that was briefly shown on their website, I'm expecting the form factor to be more like the rest of the current lineup from Marantz, with the case being deeper than it is wide, similar to the Zoom H6 layout.



« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 05:45:07 PM by DATBRAD »
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