Topic: Help! Roland R-44 DROP-OUTS (Skipping)

[alexpschorsch]

Hi, I am new here and relatively new to sound recording although I have been involved in film and audio production for years I have never been "in charge" of recordings. I just bought a Roland R-44 and am looking forward to using it mainly for video/cinema production. Right out of the box my first recordings are showing 2 to 3 second drop-outs in the recording (skipping). I bought a relatively cheap and slow memory card SanDisk Ultra which is 15MB/s. maybe I should have bought a more sophisticated and faster memory card. Anybody know the reason for this sound-skipping? it couldn't be normal. I am assuming that the card is too slow.  I have been recording mainly in 24 bits - maybe that's the problem. In a 4 minute session I had about three drop-outs.Any help would be graeatly appreciated. Thanks, Alex.

[jbell]

Sounds like you need a faster card or have a bad card!  Get a class 6 or higher and you should be in good shape.

[datbrad]

I have several friends with R44s that run class 4 cards and they work just fine. 15 mb per sec means it can read as fast as 900 mb per min. When you are recording, the speed requirements of the card are far less. I think you might just have a bad card. Class 6 cards will make transfering the files off the card faster, but do not improve write speed, since even the top speed of a class 4 is not utilized while recording.

[alexpschorsch]

So do you guys agree that the problem is in the card . My card is a class 4. It couldn't be some other problem? Thanks for your feedback so far.

[rastasean]

were you recording analog or digital? can you re-create the issues with mics plugged in different channels? can you re-create the issue with a different card? How many channels were you recording?

[alexpschorsch]

I was recording both times with the built-in mics using the the analog setting at 24 bits. The first recording was very short - about 15 seconds and the second recording was about 4 minutos long. I don't have backup memory to test at the moment. I will try some more recordings with different settings. Maybe I should record at 16 bits - 24 bits may be overkill but we like to get the best quality possible.

[alexpschorsch]

I was using the two channels of the built in mics. I'm going to do a test with external mics and at 16 bits. Let's see if the skipping continues

[DSatz]

While you're testing, the sampling rate (which you didn't mention) can make much more of a difference than 16 vs. 24 bits.

In any case really I wouldn't "cheap out" on SD cards. You've already wasted more time on this problem than any possible savings is worth.

Not only is the ostensible class of the card a factor, but there are also counterfeit cards around, which makes whatever the label says worthless. Buy a well-known brand of card of appropriate specification from a well-known, reliable dealer and get on with your recording! Normally the R-44 is rock-solid reliable.

--best regards

[alexpschorsch]

Yeah, in my first tests I was using very high sampling ratem maybe 192 k Hz, now I'm using 48 k Hz - don't know a jack's ass about sampling rates but the manual recommends 48 k Hz for video, so now I'm using that,

[alexpschorsch]

not experiencing any more dropouts - maybe everything being brand new just put a jinx on the first recordings - maybe it was the 192 hz thing.  will keep testing and thanks to everyone

[hi and lo]

If you were using 192kHz, that's most likely the culprit when using a slower SD card. I would also never recommend 192kHz, period. Just read a great thread about the negatives of 192 vs 96 or lower. Most people tend to agree that 192 actually sounds worse because the converters are being pushed beyond their mechanical limits and actually become less accurate or introduce errors. I'm sure I'm not describing this very eloquently, but others can.

Read this post by mshilarious and the thread he links to. For video, you are good at 48, but 96 is probably optimal.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145636.msg1873562#msg1873562

[Erick del Valle]

Read this post by mshilarious and the thread he links to. For video, you are good at 48, but 96 is probably optimal.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145636.msg1873562#msg1873562

I have over 20 years working in audio for film/video and I have never used any other sample rate than 48k, could eventually need 24-bit

Saludos

Erick del Valle
Santiago de Chile

[alexpschorsch]

Looks like its better now - thanks for the input. It really helps to have a site like tapersection to help those of us who are just learning. Best regards to all.

[F.O.Bean]

im glad it worked out. it was def the 192khz tghing

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Don't know if you were running all 4 channels (the 2 internal mics and the other 2 channels "live"), but IIRC I think you can only use 2 channels on the R-44 if you're recording at 192kHz.  I will echo the sentiment of others here in that you should always use good, reputable SD cards.  Worth every penny and makes a big difference.

[JasonSobel]

I will echo the sentiment of others here in that you should always use good, reputable SD cards.  Worth every penny and makes a big difference.

indeed, the memory card is not a place to skimp.  that said, in the original post, he said that he was using a SanDisk Ultra.  SanDisk is one of the best companies making flash cards, and the Ultra line should be fine.  it's possible that he has a fake SanDisk card (particularly if he bought from ebay),  but the SanDisk Ultra cards are great cards.  and he says that they are relaitvely "slow" at 15 MB/s.

Two channels of 24/96 PCM audio is only 0.55 MB/s.  If you double that to two channels of 24/192 audio data, that is still only 1.1 MB/s.  heck, even if you double that again for 4 channels of 24/192 audio, you're only at 2.2 MB/s.  My point is that all of this is well below the stated spec of the SanDisk Ultra card of 15 MB/s.

Based on this, assuming it's a genuine SanDisk card (and assuming the card itself is not malfunctioning), I would guess that there was some other cause behind the drop-outs, and it's not a simple matter of the "card not being able to keep up".

[F.O.Bean]

Have you switched to 24/48 or 24/44 and had the same problems