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Offline Andrea82

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DAT Tapes
« on: November 21, 2013, 08:14:01 AM »
Hi to all!
I would like to transfer some cassettes on DAT tapes with my Sony PCM-M1.
This will be 1st time I use the DAT machine. Which brand of tapes you prefer?
I've found on ebay this auction:
http://www.ebay.it/itm/230823829013?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
Maxell tapes are OK? Also Sony:
http://www.ebay.it/itm/370917283573?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I will set the DAT in SP Mode at 48 kHz to have the best quality possible, right?

Are there any other tips to know?
Thanks to all

runonce

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 08:21:54 AM »
HIGHLY recommend NOT using DAT as the archival medium. (unless there is a really good reason?)

If your M1 works - and you have no existing DATs to worry about transferring...sell that thing and get a newer recorder.

Im sure you could get enough for a working DAT deck to offset the purchase of an inexpensive digital recorder like some of Tascams handheld products.

A good PC soundcard is another option.

Most of us are worrying about getting our recordings OFF DAT - and into safer more reliable archival formats.


I see you have recorders - so why the urge to "DAT" stuff?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:25:17 AM by runonce »

Offline sacchini

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 08:54:14 AM »
HIGHLY recommend NOT using DAT as the archival medium. (unless there is a really good reason?)

If your M1 works - and you have no existing DATs to worry about transferring...sell that thing and get a newer recorder.

Im sure you could get enough for a working DAT deck to offset the purchase of an inexpensive digital recorder like some of Tascams handheld products.

A good PC soundcard is another option.

Most of us are worrying about getting our recordings OFF DAT - and into safer more reliable archival formats.


I see you have recorders - so why the urge to "DAT" stuff?
The same opinion.

I'm doing the reverse: from DAT to FLAC and I always need to keep my fingers crossed when tape is loading in my DAT deck (tape may break down, mostly if it's on the thinner side - 90meter I used to record 3hrs).

Moreover, I had the Sony PCM-M1 and it's better not to do "volume" on that portable deck (I'm using a TASCAM DA-30MKii for that work).

Offline Andrea82

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 03:08:53 PM »
HIGHLY recommend NOT using DAT as the archival medium. (unless there is a really good reason?)

If your M1 works - and you have no existing DATs to worry about transferring...sell that thing and get a newer recorder.

Im sure you could get enough for a working DAT deck to offset the purchase of an inexpensive digital recorder like some of Tascams handheld products.

A good PC soundcard is another option.

Most of us are worrying about getting our recordings OFF DAT - and into safer more reliable archival formats.


I see you have recorders - so why the urge to "DAT" stuff?

Why you don't recommend the DAT tapes? I was thinking it was the best way to archive a show in terms of quality and time durable.
I have three digital recorder, I can save the recording at 24-96, but then? I must burn in dvd-r , but I think the optical discs are less durable.

Offline fsulloway

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 04:09:44 PM »
HIGHLY recommend NOT using DAT as the archival medium. (unless there is a really good reason?)

If your M1 works - and you have no existing DATs to worry about transferring...sell that thing and get a newer recorder.

Im sure you could get enough for a working DAT deck to offset the purchase of an inexpensive digital recorder like some of Tascams handheld products.

A good PC soundcard is another option.

Most of us are worrying about getting our recordings OFF DAT - and into safer more reliable archival formats.


I see you have recorders - so why the urge to "DAT" stuff?

Why you don't recommend the DAT tapes? I was thinking it was the best way to archive a show in terms of quality and time durable.
I have three digital recorder, I can save the recording at 24-96, but then? I must burn in dvd-r , but I think the optical discs are less durable.

I think most of us are backing up files online and to hard drives. I still have some stuff on DVD-r as well. Most of my dats have held up extremely well but what will I do in 10-15 years when my dat decks no longer work? Also when it comes down to it dats are tapes and they are subject to breaking and or getting eaten by a deck. Besides, hard drive space is a lot more plentiful and cheaper than dats.
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Offline dnsacks

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2013, 04:11:51 PM »
plus, it's much easier to perform a "distributed archive" (i.e. share with friends and fans) when you've archived to a hard drive :)

Offline twatts (pants are so over-rated...)

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2013, 04:15:16 PM »
Best way to "archive" is to make FLACs of everything and save it in several different spots (HDD for everyday use, DVDR for storage, and the interwebz for redundancy)...

I just lost my entire Hendrix collection last month.  I have it all back now b/c a friend had a copy of the entire thing on his HDD.  I just copied it back over to my drive...

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

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Offline Andrea82

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2013, 04:24:40 PM »
HIGHLY recommend NOT using DAT as the archival medium. (unless there is a really good reason?)

If your M1 works - and you have no existing DATs to worry about transferring...sell that thing and get a newer recorder.

Im sure you could get enough for a working DAT deck to offset the purchase of an inexpensive digital recorder like some of Tascams handheld products.

A good PC soundcard is another option.

Most of us are worrying about getting our recordings OFF DAT - and into safer more reliable archival formats.


I see you have recorders - so why the urge to "DAT" stuff?

Why you don't recommend the DAT tapes? I was thinking it was the best way to archive a show in terms of quality and time durable.
I have three digital recorder, I can save the recording at 24-96, but then? I must burn in dvd-r , but I think the optical discs are less durable.

I think most of us are backing up files online and to hard drives. I still have some stuff on DVD-r as well. Most of my dats have held up extremely well but what will I do in 10-15 years when my dat decks no longer work? Also when it comes down to it dats are tapes and they are subject to breaking and or getting eaten by a deck. Besides, hard drive space is a lot more plentiful and cheaper than dats.


Thanks to you and all the other users for reply.
Yes, I have several external hdds and I save my concerts in FLAC format!
I can do a double copy for some important things  ;D

Online JimmieC

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2013, 12:54:04 AM »
I have not been so luck with some of my DAT tapes (12 to 18 years old) playing back without digital noise.  The CDs play just fine.  I was so happy to see some cheaper digital SD recorders when I got back it this.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2013, 08:30:11 AM »
DATs don't have good storage life and are pretty much the opposite of everything that an archival medium should be. Their design involves recording and playback via physical contact with the medium, plus data being recorded onto them at extremely high areal density which is compensated by the use of powerful error correction.

While DATs are being played back, error corrections are being applied at a considerably higher rate than, for example, with recordable CDs. This approach holds up OK as long as the tape keeps its physical integrity. But over time, and with temperature variations in storage, the physical tape warps and the oxide layer breaks down. The error correction rate then increases until it reaches the limit of its capacity. Beyond that the player is forced to interpolate samples or mute the signal (briefly and inaudibly at first but then for longer and longer intervals) whenever it encounters an area of the tape surface in which it can no longer read either the original data nor the (interleaved) error correction data.

This is also a problem with the older "pseudo-video" digital audio recorders such as the Sony PCM-F1 and even the professional PCM-1600 series which recorded on professional 3/4" U-Matic video tapes. I have several shelves of these old tapes and of DATs that I recorded in the 1980s and 90s. They're usually fine for a few years, and in theory one could preserve them by recopying them (digitally, during which error correction is applied and the data stream is renewed) but the tapes become "gappy" after a number of years and eventually the data becomes unrecoverable. So if you don't recopy your entire library every, say, three or four years, you will lose it all in 10 or 20 years, and any accidents in handling can cost you a valued recording.

CD-R (either audio, or better yet from an error correction standpoint, data recordings of uncompressed wave audio files) and DVD-R are much better choices for long storage life, particularly if you make multiple copies. Or if you want to use the recopying approach, dedicated hard drives give better value for the dollar spent, and it takes far less time to spin up a drive, recopy its contents and verify the results every few years. Of course the signal format for hard drives changes every few years, so you have to guess which types of drives will be readable in the future; SATA wasn't around years ago, and years from now will be replaced by something else that may well be incompatible, etc.

--best regards
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 08:43:52 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline bonghitwillie

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 04:49:34 PM »
hard drives are very cheap. just back up to 2 or 3 different drives. do not use dat!!!. it was great 15-20 years ago, but technology has moved on. I transferred all my old dats to hd a couple of years ago and it was a big pain in the butt.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2014, 09:36:00 AM »
Best way to "archive" is to make FLACs of everything and save it in several different spots (HDD for everyday use, DVDR for storage, and the interwebz for redundancy)...

I would use a 2nd HD for storage instead of DVDR. You could even back up to 2 hard drives if you really want to feel secure.
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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2014, 10:20:40 PM »
I, also, would NOT recommend transferring anything To DAT at this point. I'm still trying to archive my DAT collection before the tapes degenerate and before the decks quit working. These are fragile recorders, with many moving parts. Of my five DAT recorders, only two are still working. My Tascam DA-30 developed transport problems and ate a couple of tapes so I quit using it in 2010. My Sony 59 ES developed serious transport problems in 1999. It's been in a box in my closet ever since, because I just can't bring myself to discard it because it was my first DAT recorder. My Tascam DA-P1, which was a real workhorse over the years, finally broke down last year with motor, and or transport problems.

My D8 is still working, only because I only ever used it for live recording. My D7 works, but not reliably. (It had the annoying problem of mis-loading during recording on occasion, so I replaced it with the D8.)

I still remember spending about $350 to repair my Tascam DA-30 when it was STILL UNDER WARRANTY! I felt like I was taking a Ferrari in for an oil change. :( Before I found Pro Digital in PA, I took my DA-30 to the Tascam authorized service shop in Monterey. The tech, who I believe ripped me off with a lot of extraneous repairs, told me that the DAT tape transport is eight times as fragile and delicate as that of a VHS recorder. These machines were great when they were new. I'll never forget using my friend Gene's Sony D10 to record Grateful Dead shows starting in 1989. I felt like, 'Why the hell am I bothering to record on cassette?' I couldn't believe how the DATs sounded, with no analog tape hiss or narrow frequency response.

DAT was simply a means to an end. If I can get most of my DAT collection archived to FLAC on computer hard drives I will be happy. I switched last year to a Tascam DR-100mkii for recording live and I love it. True, you no longer have a physical piece of media to hold in your hand, but things are so much easier now that I can just hook the USB cable to it and download a show directly into my computer.

The problems with DAT are many. They have all the same problems of other tape drives; susceptibility to print-through, and stretching/breakage, not to mention the problems of a worn transport, PLUS the likelihood of digital problems like errors and digital dropouts.

Offline bonghitwillie

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Re: DAT Tapes
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 11:45:45 PM »
also the best dat machine I ever had (and still have) is a fostex d5. they were the cheapest model. do not ever buy a Tascam. they all stop working. I have never had any problems with the fostex except for head clogs. you take the cover off. put some iso alcohol on a tech wipe and spin the drum on the wipe and bingo it's clean. I have had problems with other hi end fostex modle, so stick with the d5.

 

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