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Offline Semayat

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Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« on: January 17, 2009, 03:41:25 PM »
Hi,

I've looking through the section but i've not found.
I am wondering if it is possible to modify a stock PS2 with xlr out into a single mini plug? I don't, like cutting the cable and solder a mini plug for example.
If anyone has a scheme to explain how to do, that would be helpful and fantastic!!
If not, well, i'll keep it like that  ;D

Tks in advance!!

Selling : SP CMC-2, SP SPSB-1

Taping rig :
Mics : SP CMC-4 (AT853's)
Preamp : CA9100 (V3.2)
Recorder : Ihp-120, H2

nameloc01

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2009, 09:45:16 PM »
Its totally possible, Soundpros actually sells a version of the ps2 already modded like this.
Or you could just get the dual female xlr>male miniplug cable.

Offline Semayat

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 06:36:52 AM »
Or you could just get the dual female xlr>male miniplug cable.

This is what i have, but i would love to avoid an additional cable.

Actually, i would like to know where to cut the cable and solder a mini plug, please.
Selling : SP CMC-2, SP SPSB-1

Taping rig :
Mics : SP CMC-4 (AT853's)
Preamp : CA9100 (V3.2)
Recorder : Ihp-120, H2

Offline Will_S

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 12:00:09 AM »
I'd recommend against hacking the cable.  The adapters may be clumsy, but (aside from adding transformers) there is no way of unbalancing the outputs that will work with every single mic.  You can do something that will work with most mics, but then not with others like Neumann 14x/18xs.

Of course, if you are confident you will only ever use one set of mics...

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 08:02:41 AM »
totally hack the cable.
I can tell you how.  PM me.

its not a one way deal, you can always go back to XLR if needed.

nameloc01

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 02:08:33 PM »
Right. Get hackin'.

Offline Semayat

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2009, 04:28:32 AM »
Pm sent Nick  ;)
Selling : SP CMC-2, SP SPSB-1

Taping rig :
Mics : SP CMC-4 (AT853's)
Preamp : CA9100 (V3.2)
Recorder : Ihp-120, H2

Offline rsimms3

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2009, 09:52:08 AM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,101196.0.html

I had this for sale for the longest time, it finally sold.  I think you asked me about it, but I can't recall, I know we talked about a set of mics you were interested in. 
FOR SALE - Check HERE

Offline Semayat

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 04:10:36 AM »
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,101196.0.html

I had this for sale for the longest time, it finally sold.  I think you asked me about it, but I can't recall, I know we talked about a set of mics you were interested in. 

Yes, but i've had a pair of AT853's for a very cheap price and then modified them while i've asked for that STC-11 mics...same case for a ps2 i've purchased for 70€ (w/ paypal+shipping) 
Selling : SP CMC-2, SP SPSB-1

Taping rig :
Mics : SP CMC-4 (AT853's)
Preamp : CA9100 (V3.2)
Recorder : Ihp-120, H2

Offline su6oxone

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2009, 11:11:49 AM »
You can do something that will work with most mics, but then not with others like Neumann 14x/18xs.

I have used the Neumann KM184s with the Sound Pro 1/8" output modded PS-2 without any problems.  Using Maha 9.6V rechargeables I was getting over 4hrs of juice as well.  ;D


Offline DSatz

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2009, 09:47:29 PM »
A stereo miniplug is UNbalanced, while phantom powering is for balanced microphones. You're not just wiring a mechanical adapter (like the difference between the two well-known types of stereo headphone plug, both of which have the same number of contacts but are different-sized). You're also converting the audio signals themselves from one format (two leads whose voltage is related only to one another, enclosed by a shield that's independent of either lead) to another format that works on a different principle (a single lead carrying a voltage that is referenced only to the shield that encloses it).

Different microphones have different types of balanced output circuits with different (in some cases diametrically opposite) requirements for how unbalancing has to be done. There is no standard for this, since standards are either professional or consumer, and professional standards are generally all balanced all the time, while consumer standards are all unbalanced all the time--so the translation between the two realms is like a blind spot in the standards. The approach you need to use depends on the output stage design in your particular microphones. Thus anyone who tries to tell you how this type of adapter should be wired (or to sell you one) without knowing the specifics of the microphones you'll be using it with, is basically proving that he doesn't know enough about the subject to be giving you advice on this topic.

The only "universal" method that will allow any and all known balanced microphones to drive unbalanced inputs is to use a suitable transformer at the unbalanced input. That effectively makes the input balanced as far as the microphone and the phantom power supply are concerned, so the problem basically goes away. Unfortunately, good audio transformers are neither cheap nor tiny. Other than that, you'd have to get advice from the manufacturer of your particular microphones, or see whether the manual for your microphones covers this situation (as Neumann's and Schoeps' manuals do).

There are four different possible hookups for balanced-to-unbalanced conversion without a transformer, and three of the possible four are needed by different microphones that people here often mention using. No matter which of these ways you wire the plugs coming out of the PS-2, it will simply not work correctly, or will not work at all, for many types of microphones. That's just the way things are; I'm sorry.

I wouldn't even go by someone else's word that they tried a certain wiring arrangement with your type of microphone and that it seemed to work, because there are numerous cases in which you will get a signal, but the microphone will have considerably lower headroom (ability to handle loud sound without distorting) than it would have if you wired things the right way. Check with the manufacturer and follow their instructions. Don't accept folklore as a substitute, even when it's coming from a friendly place such as the nice people on this board.

--best regards

P.S.: To be specific, the four ways are:

[1] Tie pin 3 of the mike to pin 1, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 2 as the hot lead.
[2] Tie pin 2 of the mike to pin 1, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 3 as the hot lead.
[3] Leave pin 2 unconnected completely, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 3 as the hot lead.
[4] Leave pin 3 unconnected completely, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 2 as the hot lead.

For example, a (transformerless) Schoeps phantom-powered microphone should use method [4] (it will distort if you use [1] or [2], and will have inverted signal polarity if you use [3]) while a Neumann KM 184 should use method [1] (it will produce no signal apart from a very small, noisy crosstalk voltage if you use another method) and a Neumann KM 140 should use method [2] (same remark, though unfortunately method [2] produces inverted signal polarity, which can't be avoided given this output stage design).

Note that the Neumann KM 140 and KM 184 are essentially the same microphone sonically, but one series is modular while the other isn't, and their output circuits are different enough that you can't unbalance their signals the same way. It's individual to that degree, depending on the particular model of microphone--it's not even necessarily consistent within the same brand of microphone.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2009, 09:51:18 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2009, 03:41:41 AM »
A stereo miniplug is UNbalanced, while phantom powering is for balanced microphones. You're not just wiring a mechanical adapter (like the difference between the two well-known types of stereo headphone plug, both of which have the same number of contacts but are different-sized). You're also converting the audio signals themselves from one format (two leads whose voltage is related only to one another, enclosed by a shield that's independent of either lead) to another format that works on a different principle (a single lead carrying a voltage that is referenced only to the shield that encloses it).

Different microphones have different types of balanced output circuits with different (in some cases diametrically opposite) requirements for how unbalancing has to be done. There is no standard for this, since standards are either professional or consumer, and professional standards are generally all balanced all the time, while consumer standards are all unbalanced all the time--so the translation between the two realms is like a blind spot in the standards. The approach you need to use depends on the output stage design in your particular microphones. Thus anyone who tries to tell you how this type of adapter should be wired (or to sell you one) without knowing the specifics of the microphones you'll be using it with, is basically proving that he doesn't know enough about the subject to be giving you advice on this topic.

The only "universal" method that will allow any and all known balanced microphones to drive unbalanced inputs is to use a suitable transformer at the unbalanced input. That effectively makes the input balanced as far as the microphone and the phantom power supply are concerned, so the problem basically goes away. Unfortunately, good audio transformers are neither cheap nor tiny. Other than that, you'd have to get advice from the manufacturer of your particular microphones, or see whether the manual for your microphones covers this situation (as Neumann's and Schoeps' manuals do).

There are four different possible hookups for balanced-to-unbalanced conversion without a transformer, and three of the possible four are needed by different microphones that people here often mention using. No matter which of these ways you wire the plugs coming out of the PS-2, it will simply not work correctly, or will not work at all, for many types of microphones. That's just the way things are; I'm sorry.

I wouldn't even go by someone else's word that they tried a certain wiring arrangement with your type of microphone and that it seemed to work, because there are numerous cases in which you will get a signal, but the microphone will have considerably lower headroom (ability to handle loud sound without distorting) than it would have if you wired things the right way. Check with the manufacturer and follow their instructions. Don't accept folklore as a substitute, even when it's coming from a friendly place such as the nice people on this board.

--best regards

P.S.: To be specific, the four ways are:

[1] Tie pin 3 of the mike to pin 1, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 2 as the hot lead.
[2] Tie pin 2 of the mike to pin 1, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 3 as the hot lead.
[3] Leave pin 2 unconnected completely, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 3 as the hot lead.
[4] Leave pin 3 unconnected completely, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 2 as the hot lead.

For example, a (transformerless) Schoeps phantom-powered microphone should use method [4] (it will distort if you use [1] or [2], and will have inverted signal polarity if you use [3]) while a Neumann KM 184 should use method [1] (it will produce no signal apart from a very small, noisy crosstalk voltage if you use another method) and a Neumann KM 140 should use method [2] (same remark, though unfortunately method [2] produces inverted signal polarity, which can't be avoided given this output stage design).

Note that the Neumann KM 140 and KM 184 are essentially the same microphone sonically, but one series is modular while the other isn't, and their output circuits are different enough that you can't unbalance their signals the same way. It's individual to that degree, depending on the particular model of microphone--it's not even necessarily consistent within the same brand of microphone.

Wow!
DSatz
you said it again - perfect!!!  ;D
I didn't know all that, but thank you for enlightening me and explaining it so well

very awesome response
-- Ian
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
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Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2009, 07:10:19 AM »
yup, thats good info.

the mods i've done to PS2 have typically been floating pin3 on the mic end, and then grounding it on the preamp end.
or, I ground pin3 on both ends.

Offline Justinasia

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2009, 11:57:06 AM »
A stereo miniplug is UNbalanced, while phantom powering is for balanced microphones. You're not just wiring a mechanical adapter (like the difference between the two well-known types of stereo headphone plug, both of which have the same number of contacts but are different-sized). You're also converting the audio signals themselves from one format (two leads whose voltage is related only to one another, enclosed by a shield that's independent of either lead) to another format that works on a different principle (a single lead carrying a voltage that is referenced only to the shield that encloses it).

Different microphones have different types of balanced output circuits with different (in some cases diametrically opposite) requirements for how unbalancing has to be done. There is no standard for this, since standards are either professional or consumer, and professional standards are generally all balanced all the time, while consumer standards are all unbalanced all the time--so the translation between the two realms is like a blind spot in the standards. The approach you need to use depends on the output stage design in your particular microphones. Thus anyone who tries to tell you how this type of adapter should be wired (or to sell you one) without knowing the specifics of the microphones you'll be using it with, is basically proving that he doesn't know enough about the subject to be giving you advice on this topic.

The only "universal" method that will allow any and all known balanced microphones to drive unbalanced inputs is to use a suitable transformer at the unbalanced input. That effectively makes the input balanced as far as the microphone and the phantom power supply are concerned, so the problem basically goes away. Unfortunately, good audio transformers are neither cheap nor tiny. Other than that, you'd have to get advice from the manufacturer of your particular microphones, or see whether the manual for your microphones covers this situation (as Neumann's and Schoeps' manuals do).

There are four different possible hookups for balanced-to-unbalanced conversion without a transformer, and three of the possible four are needed by different microphones that people here often mention using. No matter which of these ways you wire the plugs coming out of the PS-2, it will simply not work correctly, or will not work at all, for many types of microphones. That's just the way things are; I'm sorry.

I wouldn't even go by someone else's word that they tried a certain wiring arrangement with your type of microphone and that it seemed to work, because there are numerous cases in which you will get a signal, but the microphone will have considerably lower headroom (ability to handle loud sound without distorting) than it would have if you wired things the right way. Check with the manufacturer and follow their instructions. Don't accept folklore as a substitute, even when it's coming from a friendly place such as the nice people on this board.

--best regards

P.S.: To be specific, the four ways are:

[1] Tie pin 3 of the mike to pin 1, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 2 as the hot lead.
[2] Tie pin 2 of the mike to pin 1, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 3 as the hot lead.
[3] Leave pin 2 unconnected completely, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 3 as the hot lead.
[4] Leave pin 3 unconnected completely, use pin 1 as the ground and pin 2 as the hot lead.

For example, a (transformerless) Schoeps phantom-powered microphone should use method [4] (it will distort if you use [1] or [2], and will have inverted signal polarity if you use [3]) while a Neumann KM 184 should use method [1] (it will produce no signal apart from a very small, noisy crosstalk voltage if you use another method) and a Neumann KM 140 should use method [2] (same remark, though unfortunately method [2] produces inverted signal polarity, which can't be avoided given this output stage design).

Note that the Neumann KM 140 and KM 184 are essentially the same microphone sonically, but one series is modular while the other isn't, and their output circuits are different enough that you can't unbalance their signals the same way. It's individual to that degree, depending on the particular model of microphone--it's not even necessarily consistent within the same brand of microphone.

Hi Dsatz
I think I have read you speaking about this a few times through the archives. If I am reading you right, products like this Denecke will not work with all mics. Seems like they are not being honest about it?? Or am I missing something?
[edit - this one: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/DEN-PS2-MINI ]
Since this is quite confusing for me to understand which product does it the right way or the wrong way, would you mind to tell which units for sale are actually OK for using XLR phantom powered to connect to a 1/8th input of a recorder? The one I know is
SONY XLR-1
Are there others? (Apart from the ones which are also preamps).
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 07:17:33 AM by Justinasia »

Offline Will_S

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Re: Modify a PS2 : XLR out to mini plug
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2009, 10:06:43 PM »
I think I have read you speaking about this a few times through the archives. If I am reading you right, products like this Denecke will not work with all mics. Seems like they are not being honest about it?? Or am I missing something?

You are missing something - the Denecke is sold with XLR outputs.  They do not claim it is suited for unbalanced mic inputs.  Some folks choose to use it that way, and at least one company sells a version that they, not Denecke, modify.

 

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