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Author Topic: church audio preamp - do i need one?  (Read 9789 times)

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cberryh2o

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church audio preamp - do i need one?
« on: September 11, 2011, 12:18:12 AM »
Warning...relative newb here...

So I got a church audio preamp with my mics recently...just to be safe....and I've recorded probably 20 shows now without the preamp and never had a problem with just running the mics straight into the deck (and one of the shows was mind-bogglingly loud).  Can someone tell me why/where/when I might need this preamp?  I'm mostly recording rock music in clubs and occasionally stadiums/amphitheaters with church audio 11 mics and a sony pcm m10.  Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

Offline tedyun

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2011, 09:23:15 AM »
The preamp has two functions:

1) It provides the correct voltage to polarize the CA-11s. The mics require 9V to be properly polarized. The plug-in power of the M10 supplies 3V which appears to be enough voltage for the CA-11s to be functional in your recording situations, but to have the mics operating at their specs, they need 9V.

2) It supplies gain. Whether you prefer the M10 amp or the Church amp is up to you (ie., you can set the Church gain at 0, and do all the gain on the M10, or set the Church at the optimal gain). Many here (including myself) think the Church preamp provides clean, nice sounding gain. I've heard very good things about the M10, but I haven't seen any comparisons.

So bottom line is that to operate the mics at spec, you need to supply them with 9V from the preamp. If you want to reduce the bulk, it sounds like you can use a battery box to provide the correct voltage and get all the gain from the M10.


Warning...relative newb here...

So I got a church audio preamp with my mics recently...just to be safe....and I've recorded probably 20 shows now without the preamp and never had a problem with just running the mics straight into the deck (and one of the shows was mind-bogglingly loud).  Can someone tell me why/where/when I might need this preamp?  I'm mostly recording rock music in clubs and occasionally stadiums/amphitheaters with church audio 11 mics and a sony pcm m10.  Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2011, 09:58:47 AM »
So bottom line is that to operate the mics at spec, you need to supply them with 9V from the preamp. If you want to reduce the bulk, it sounds like you can use a battery box to provide the correct voltage and get all the gain from the M10.

According to illconditioned, who is extremely knowledgeable, the M10 will power CA-11's just fine without a battery box. Since you have made 20 recordings that way with no problems, I see no need to add a battery box to the chain.

If you ever start recording more quiet stuff, though, you might eventually want to add a Church Audio preamp to your arsenal.  And if you ever buy a more power hungry set of mics like CA-14's you'll want to get a battery box or a preamp.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 10:01:10 AM by fmaderjr »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

adrianf74

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 02:45:30 PM »
So bottom line is that to operate the mics at spec, you need to supply them with 9V from the preamp. If you want to reduce the bulk, it sounds like you can use a battery box to provide the correct voltage and get all the gain from the M10.

According to illconditioned, who is extremely knowledgeable, the M10 will power CA-11's just fine without a battery box. Since you have made 20 recordings that way with no problems, I see no need to add a battery box to the chain.

If you ever start recording more quiet stuff, though, you might eventually want to add a Church Audio preamp to your arsenal.  And if you ever buy a more power hungry set of mics like CA-14's you'll want to get a battery box or a preamp.
+1.  The CA-11's can be used without any power the source.  The CA-14's cannot.  Even though I have the option to use my CA-UBB over the preamp, I use my 9100 preamp 99% of the time because it's easier to adjust the levels via it (and set the deck at unity).   I also find the recordings much cleaner than my previous battery box/mic set up.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 06:39:03 PM »
Yeah, the CA-14's are sooo freakin awesome. I cannot believe how cheap they are. They sound like 1k mics :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2011, 12:43:41 PM »
Here is the deal all the CA mics were designed to run on 9v they can run on 5v too with little to no problems.. When you start running them on 1-4 volts it could be a problem or not. It depends on how loud the show is anything over 105 db with pounding bass you might have distortion ( with out a bb or a preamp ) ... So if you have the preamp use it. It will only bring your noise floor down and prevent any overloads due to a lack of voltage. Plain and simple unless you carry a db meter "some" people getting away with running with out a bb or a preamp is moot because we dont know and never will know what sound pressure levels were running at the time. One of the reasons why my gear does not overload is simple I tell ALL my customers to get a battery box or a preamp when they place the order with me. Why? So that I dont get any problems from any of my customers with distortion. I have never once in the 7 years I have been doing this ever had an issue with a customer having overload on my mics. Unless it was a weak battery or the crappy battery boxes that are out there that use the cheap coin cells going dead. That says it all.

So why take the risk I make a pretty dam small battery box and a preamp that is not much bigger than a 9 volt battery.. I am also making a new 9200 that will be the same size as the ugly preamp maybe smaller that is 0 db to 40 db of gain...

for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline Drgiggles1

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2011, 02:55:14 PM »
I've had no problems hooking up the ca-14 omni's straight in to mic in on the pcmm10 this summer. This week i finally received my ca9100 preamp and got to test it out @ B.B. King's in NYC. I can't say if I didn't have the preamp if the show would have came out fine or not, but the volume was really loud and sounded (too loud) to my ears. With the preamp I am impressed on how good the recording came out. I guess I'm saying if you have it, use it. You never know when the soundman is gonna crank the living hell out of the PA or if you are going to be @ a real acoustic show.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 06:41:16 PM by Drgiggles1 »
Mics: CA-14 (o,c,o)
Remote Power: CA-9100 pre-amp, CA-UBB battery box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2d
Cable/s: custom 6" GAKables Mini Starquad
Batteries: Maha 9.6V Imedion, Maha Powerex 2700 mAh
Chargers: Maha MH-C9000, MAHA MH-C490F 9 Volt

adrianf74

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2011, 04:02:32 PM »
I've had no problems hooking up the ca-14 omni's straight in to mic in on the pcmm10 this summer. This week i finally received my ca9100 preamp and got to test it out @ B.B. King's in NYC. I can't say if I didn't have the preamp if the show would have came out fine or not, but the volume was really loud and sounded (too loud) to my ears. With the preamp I am impressed on how good the recording came out. I guess I'm saying if you have it, use it. You never know when the soundman is gonna crank the living hell out of the PA.
As Chris just said, you can get lucky because the SPL was high but not high enough to distort your recording running straight into the mic preamp.   He's always recommended some sort of power supply for his mics to ensure they receive the correct voltage.  Preamps can sometimes be a bit harder to deal with in a tight spot so I also have one of his Ugly Battery Boxes (essentially a 9V battery terminal that has some compound covering all the components with a 1/8" input jack and a 1/8" male techflex cable on it).  It's ugly, yes, but it will power the mics properly and allow for high SPLs without distorting.  Nowadays, there's no reason not to be running power on the mics for anything amplified.

I know you can run GuySonic's DSM mics on the M10 without issue via plug-in-power but those are different capsules than what Chris offers (and another story altogether).

Offline tonebloke

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2011, 12:51:17 AM »
Why? So that I dont get any problems from any of my customers with distortion. I have never once in the 7 years I have been doing this ever had an issue with a customer having overload on my mics. Unless it was a weak battery or the crappy battery boxes that are out there that use the cheap coin cells going dead. That says it all.

So why take the risk I make a pretty dam small battery box and a preamp that is not much bigger than a 9 volt battery.

I have been using Chris's CA-11's + Bat2Box for about 8 months now and all recordings have come out fine compared to the dozen or so internal mic recordings that gave me a myriad of results - mostly bad.
Church Audio CA-11
Church Audio CAFS
Church Audio Bat2Box (X2)
Edirol R09-HR
Tascam DR2d

dorrcoq

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2011, 03:53:18 PM »
Since you already apparently have the preamp, you might as well use it.  No downside, and as others have said, might be necessary in certain situations.

Offline flipp022

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2013, 10:26:31 AM »
an mic with N-Channel Junction FET works with 1.5 volts very well , you need then not pre-amp or battery box , only power inplug on ,

the most recorder give more than 2 volts , is enough power for the mic , and it you give cleaner sound

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: church audio preamp - do i need one?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2013, 10:45:44 AM »
an mic with N-Channel Junction FET works with 1.5 volts very well , you need then not pre-amp or battery box , only power inplug on ,

the most recorder give more than 2 volts , is enough power for the mic , and it you give cleaner sound
LoL really hummmm I don't think so.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

 

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