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Author Topic: master md's>analog out>24 bit???  (Read 10145 times)

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Offline GroundHog420

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #60 on: March 01, 2010, 05:13:38 PM »
I never stated that you didn't know what you were talking about. You were referring to a unit that I was not familiar with (the RH-1), and I was talking about a unit which I apparently forgot to mention the model name of in my first post (the RH MZ-910). We were both right, inasmuch as the RH-1 can transfer via USB, and the RH MZ-910 will not allow that method of transfer. That does not imply that you don't know what you're talking about, just that we were talking about two different things.

Yes, you were rude, unless telling someone to get their head out their ass is your way of trying to demonstrate to someone how smart you are. Apparently, because I forgot to specify which deck I had tried, that gave you license to insult me. Thanks for your offer, I guess, but I've found out what I need to know, and will happily spend whatever I need to, to get a deck that will serve my purposes. Besides, after all this nonsense, there's no way in hell I would entrust my masters with a guy who had a chance to present himself as an intelligent, knowledgeable person, but instead chose to willingly present himself as a complete fucking jerk.

As for being an expert that I am not but as one of the few people who use and love the minidisc format I have learned quite a bit over the years.

The RH1 is the last MD unit that Sony produced and after years of a great teachnology going to waste they finally got it right. It is the only unit that supports USB 2.0 and the uploading of HIMD, NetMD, and legacy ATRAC recordings. The RH1 has been discontinued but the M200 can still be purchased new and is the identical model with 2 exceptions. 1) The Mac os is supported but only with PCM recordings 2) It comes with a worthless $50 microphone.

I wasn't rude to you. You told me that I didn't know what I was talking about.  I only mention that I was knowledgeable in the subject because there are so few of us on here who know much, if anything, about minidisc.

If you're looking for straight digial uploads in 16bit then I'm sure you could find someone to do the transfer for you. I would help you out but I'm a truck driver and come home once a month at the most  and I couldn't get it done for you in a timely fashion.  However if you can't find someone else to do the transfers for you and are on no hurry to get them back I would be happy to transfer you discs to whatever medium you wish.
Hey man, that common sense shit won't fly around here, we're from Portland, we're edgy & different or something  ???
she kept playing with the balls for around 2 years after i thought i had seen it all from them.

Offline GroundHog420

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2010, 05:15:28 PM »
Ummm... yes, I quite understand that. To my awareness, we are not debating anything here.

"Pining"? Hardly. Like I said, I'm happy to discover that I can transfer these in the format they're in, without losing anything else.

My comment was simply an acknowledgment of not having a better understanding of the format back when I recorded those shows. To my ears, and most others who have heard many of these recordings, they sound just fine. I was simply remarking in the sense that if I knew more about MD back then, I would have used a different recording medium.

I've been recording shows for something like 35 years, and it's always a learning curve. When I was a kid, I didn't get how using a better brand of cassette, or a better microphone, would vastly improve the sound quality. Learning things like that along the way is what turned it from a casual hobby into a more serious archiving endeavor in my adult years.

My original question had to do with finding out what other people thought, particularly given the previous discussion about the possibility of 20-bit AD conversion, etc. It all sounded like a lot of speculation, and I since some of those questions had not been answered yet, I wondered if there was any empiric data to substantiate anyone's claims. I stated at the beginning that I personally didn't think it mattered whether it went to 24-bit or not. So, ummm.... I wonder why you seem to be stuck on that point, when I pretty much agreed with you a while ago.

This has got to be the strangest thread on TS I have ever set my foot in. Sorry to have bothered you folks - you seem like you would prefer to be left alone with each other, so I will gladly leave you to it. Enjoy yourselves.

Quote
Sadly, they will still be lossy recordings, because like a lot of folks who jumped on that technology in the early days of MD, I didn't understand the limitations of ATRAC. Still, it's great to discover that there is hope for transferring all these old shows as data in their original state.

Look - they will ALWAYS be lossy...no matter what you do. That loss is built in to ATRAC. Not coming back. Its like going mp3 > wav. The data is thrown out for good.

Dont take this the wrong way - But I think pining over the virtues of 24 bit when you are remastering a lossy source via a portable deck's headphone output is bit ridiculous.

The best you can hope for is the most direct ATRAC > WAV conversion.

A. Hi-MD > Computer

B. Standalone > Microtack (via spdif)

I think - for the most part - these can be considered equivalent processes.(probably some quibble room here)

I think the jury is still out as to the virtue of reconstructing the wav as a 24bit file. If there was any archival advantage...obviously that would be great. But you'd still want 16bits if you need to go to CD.

Another MD user and member here had a standalone MD that had the spdif output set at 24 bit as default. (according to the manual). So - thats why I wonder. Sony made it an option...before there were any real 24 bit devices available (for the most part). Why bother unless it made a difference?

I know I've owned Sony standalones with 20 bit ADs - so some confusion there for sure.
Hey man, that common sense shit won't fly around here, we're from Portland, we're edgy & different or something  ???
she kept playing with the balls for around 2 years after i thought i had seen it all from them.

runonce

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2010, 07:50:07 PM »
Good Luck!

 ::)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 07:51:45 PM by runonce »

Offline dunebug81

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2010, 08:11:04 PM »
Good Luck!

 ::)

wow, even when he agrees he still argues with you. It's too bad that some people can't just say "I didn't know that thanks for the info." such is life.

Since this is a Minidisc thread I have a question, I'm sure the answer to this is no but I'll ask it anyway.

 Have any of you that use a HI-MD and the sonic stage software been able to install, run, and upload a recording on windows 7?  I have not seen any info on if it will run or not. I would like to buy a new laptop but everything comes with windows 7 and having a computer that won't run Sonic Stage does me no good.   
Greg
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adrianf74

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2010, 02:30:27 PM »
So, I just posted a similar question in a new thread before finding this one.

My situation is similar.  I've got an Edriol R-09 (no digital input) so the question I ask is the same... I've got a portable unit a friend's loaning me and I've got a slew of shows (mainly recorded in MDLP on a Sharp MT-877 from 2002 through 2005).  I want to transfer these from MD (because my friend's going back overseas) and use his deck analog out to my Edirol (which I know isn't the most optimal situation).

Is it worth going 24/48 or should I just stick with 16/44.1?  I'm leaning towards the latter because of ATRAC and the source material but I know some people will swear up and down that 24/48 is the "best way to go."  I just want to do this project one time and one time only.

Thanks again.

Offline twatts (that "Pants" thing is so lame...)

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2010, 07:29:37 PM »

Is it worth going 24/48?


Sure, why not...  Its a simple procedure to go 16/44 from either 16/48 or 24/48...  Why not do the best with what you got until you can do it better???

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
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Offline boojum

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2010, 05:48:37 AM »
So, I just posted a similar question in a new thread before finding this one.

My situation is similar.  I've got an Edriol R-09 (no digital input) so the question I ask is the same... I've got a portable unit a friend's loaning me and I've got a slew of shows (mainly recorded in MDLP on a Sharp MT-877 from 2002 through 2005).  I want to transfer these from MD (because my friend's going back overseas) and use his deck analog out to my Edirol (which I know isn't the most optimal situation).

Is it worth going 24/48 or should I just stick with 16/44.1?  I'm leaning towards the latter because of ATRAC and the source material but I know some people will swear up and down that 24/48 is the "best way to go."  I just want to do this project one time and one time only.

Thanks again.

If it were possible to copy it at 24/192 it would not make any difference.  You cannot improve the quality of what you are copying from by copying at high sampling rates.  It will never be better than the original.  16/44.1 will be more than adequate for ATRAC files.  It is no different than copying MP3 files to WAV files.  They will not be improved in quality.   
« Last Edit: May 23, 2010, 04:33:50 PM by boojum »
Nov schmoz kapop.

Offline sunjan

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #67 on: May 24, 2010, 07:35:24 AM »
Boojum is right, from a mathematical point of view.
Original ATRAC3 (also known as ATRAC-LP or LP2 mode) = 132 kbit/s
Standard 16-bit audio CD = 1,411.2 kbit/s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kbit/s#Examples


That said, let your ears judge. Transfer one track in various bit rates and verify if you hear any difference. If you don't, it's pretty safe to say that 16-bit gives you sufficient headroom.
If you've read previous threads, I shouldn't have to point out that your transfer method involves an extra DA>AD step, which you could avoid by using other equipment. YMMV...
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adrianf74

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #68 on: May 24, 2010, 09:29:52 AM »
Boojum is right, from a mathematical point of view.
Original ATRAC3 (also known as ATRAC-LP or LP2 mode) = 132 kbit/s
Standard 16-bit audio CD = 1,411.2 kbit/s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kbit/s#Examples


That said, let your ears judge. Transfer one track in various bit rates and verify if you hear any difference. If you don't, it's pretty safe to say that 16-bit gives you sufficient headroom.
If you've read previous threads, I shouldn't have to point out that your transfer method involves an extra DA>AD step, which you could avoid by using other equipment. YMMV...

Thanks everyone.  I honestly doubt I'd "hear" anything differently between the sample rates.  I know 44/16 is still overkill based on ATRAC3 but wanted to know what others thought.

I know that there's an extra DA>AD step in there.  My computer does not have optical in (nor does my Edirol for that matter) so I'm kinda stuck doing it this way.  I don't know when I'll have access to another MD player so I'd rather do this while I have the chance - my friend with the MD player goes back overseas in a few weeks.

Offline lukpac

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2016, 12:27:33 PM »
Thats the part where your losing us - the point is, some HiMD decks CAN transfer legacy, non-HiMD discs...you're saying it didnt work? It IS possible. So we need to debug your process.

Is there a list of what Hi-MD decks can transfer/upload non-Hi-MD recordings?

I have a bunch of standard MiniDiscs that I recorded before getting flash based recorders. I made analog dubs of them years ago, but would really like to archive digital copies of all of them. I've seen a lot of conflicting information about the ability to transfer legacy recordings using Hi-MD machines. Wikipedia suggests the MZ-RH1 was the first machine to allow such transfers, but was that a change in the machine, or a change in SonicStage?

The MZ-RH1 still commands quite a bit of money, certainly far more than I'd care to spend on a machine that would only be used to transfer existing recordings. There are other, less expensive Hi-MD machines with USB connections, but it isn't clear if they support such transfers or not.

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2016, 02:20:00 PM »
Thats the part where your losing us - the point is, some HiMD decks CAN transfer legacy, non-HiMD discs...you're saying it didnt work? It IS possible. So we need to debug your process.

Is there a list of what Hi-MD decks can transfer/upload non-Hi-MD recordings?

I have a bunch of standard MiniDiscs that I recorded before getting flash based recorders. I made analog dubs of them years ago, but would really like to archive digital copies of all of them. I've seen a lot of conflicting information about the ability to transfer legacy recordings using Hi-MD machines. Wikipedia suggests the MZ-RH1 was the first machine to allow such transfers, but was that a change in the machine, or a change in SonicStage?

The MZ-RH1 still commands quite a bit of money, certainly far more than I'd care to spend on a machine that would only be used to transfer existing recordings. There are other, less expensive Hi-MD machines with USB connections, but it isn't clear if they support such transfers or not.

I have a MD player that does 16/44 digital output...  I may be able to transfer your MDs for you...  See my sig for the model number...  You'll have to research yourself to see if it will work...

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

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Offline EarlyMorningRain

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Re: master md's>analog out>24 bit???
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2016, 11:31:53 AM »
I have a MD player that does 16/44 digital output...  I may be able to transfer your MDs for you...  See my sig for the model number...  You'll have to research yourself to see if it will work...
Terry

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