Topic: Recording on Stage

[Gutbucket]

Might check local availability of Sanken microphones.  They are a well respected Japanese manufacturer-
http://www.sanken-mic.com/en/

[2manyrocks]

A card is useful when recording in rooms where the acoustics of the room are less than ideal.  Omni pattern mics are nice in rooms where the room acoustics are good. 

Gutbucket made an amazing jazz trio recording at this link.  You will find it interesting. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=1625.msg2037866#msg2037866

[Raoul_Duke]

Sounds great, Gutbucket! The guitarist is tearing it up, too.

Have to admit, though, that the description of how you actually performed the recording lost me. While I hope one day to be able to understand and use all of the shorthand I read, my head was/is swimming in a sea of acronyms and model numbers.

If I want to keep it simple for now, and I'm performing mostly in rooms with good acoustics, is there a decent, larger omni mic that's not going to break the bank? Will keep a lookout for Sanken mics, too, Gutbucket.

I apologise again for dumbing the conversation down.

[Gutbucket]

Audio Technica makes good quality mics that aren't overly expensive, not just the small 943 and 853 series, but 'normal' full-body small diaphragm condensers (SDCs).  They might be your best bet.   Sanken also makes 'normal' cardioids and an omni but they are less common with music recordists here at Taper's Section and I don't have an idea of their cost.  I do know their miniature omni lav (COS11) is about the same cost as the DPA 4060 series, which is more costly than the miniature AT microphones.

Thanks for the comments, I had forgotten about those samples.  Keeping things simple, you're probably best advised to try the more typical 2-channel stereo recording setups most people use around here and ignore that stuff for now.  I tend to use some odd recording setups, and enjoy figuring out what might work better, when and why.  I like sharing what I've learned doing those kind of things here, and I think what is most important is not so much outlining specific ways of doing things, but exploring the ideas behind what works, and good ways to think about the problems.

It's not dumbing down, its starting with the most important practical questions to get started, then maybe getting more sophisticated from there if that interests you and you want to keep improving your recording techniques.

[ScoobieKW]

There are a pair of Busman BSC1 microphones in the yardsale right now.

$400 USD with interchangeable capsule 3 different pickup patterns, Omni, Hyper and Cardioid.

Cheaper than buying a quality omni and cardioid set separately.

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Steve%20Kennedy-Williams

here's a 4 track of onstage BSC1 + sbd with a touch of aud
http://archive.org/details/nm2014-06-14.scoobiensnax

here's omni onstage
https://archive.org/details/ata2012-12-29 (listed as Avantone CK1 - busman mod, this is the prototype version of the BSC1)

[Gutbucket]

Scoobie makes smokin' recordings with his Busmans.  You've need to get them shipped from the US to you in Japan, but those are a great value well and respected around here.

[achalsey]

The only problem with that is he'll need a preamp then too.  I assume there are affordable japanese preamps that are not generally popular around here, but still will add to the cost.  Then add in mounts, cables, stand....

I don't want to speak for OP but seems like he's trying to keep it on a budget.  Not to say the Busmans aren't a great choice, but then you're getting into like a $5-600 (without recorder) investment.

[Gutbucket]

Gotcha. Yet he did request something larger than lav mics for stage mic'ing, which pushes things towards phantom power, at least at reasonable cost.  For that, medium sized standard-size phantom-powered mics with a more substantial construction may be more appropriately 'robust' and less fragile for that application than miniatures.   If ultimate small size and potentially wearing the microphones is important, the miniature low-voltage mics and associated gear would be a better choice.  Those are more real-world practicality concerns which are probably more important than subtle questions of quality. Either is capable of making quality recordings from on-stage.

[achalsey]

True, but I get the feeling OP doesn't know much of what he wants or how it all works.  (I mean that with no offense.  I was in the same boat starting out.)

OP, Anthony?, a ball park figure, or maybe limit of what you're willing to spend would help the discussion a bit I think.

That said, some good advice that I certainly didn't follow starting out, is to get the mics you want first.  If you do continue on down the path its much more cost effective to make a larger one time purchase of the mics you ultimately want than to buy cheap now and slowly upgrade over time.  If you can splurge and buy a lasting rig now that would be ideal.  Though, depending on how involved you'll be in it, I'm sure some AT, Naiant or Church miniature mics would be just fine too.

Is there any kind of used market in Japan?  I would think you could find some pretty cheap AT mics somewhere in country, but have no basis to actually back that up.

[ScoobieKW]

Scoobie makes smokin' recordings with his Busmans.  You've need to get them shipped from the US to you in Japan, but those are a great value well and respected around here.

Back to a simpler option Audio Technica makes the 8010 omni, that will run off Battery Power or Phantom.

Not as versatile, but to get into a small recorder, they'll do fine.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

Scoobie makes smokin' recordings with his Busmans.

He does indeed! Those sound fantastic. Really like the Hammond stuff. The Busmans seem like the perfect choice–but maybe out of my price range with the preamps etc. Guess I'm looking to spend $300 (under if possible) on top of the recorder itself.

I don't know a lot about the used market here for audio products, but a cursory check suggests there isn't much going on–until, of course, things achieve "vintage" status.

The 8010 was sold in Japan as the ATM10a but looks to have been discontinued. Don't seem to be any floating around the new or second-hand market.

Are there any other simple options that will work in an M-10–a cheaper version of something like a BSC1 perhaps?

[bryonsos]

Countryman B3 (x2) > battery box > M10

Low-profile, affordable, and they blow more expensive mics out of the water IMHO. The B3s come unterminated, but you shouldn't have any trouble finding somebody to solder them into a stereo miniplug for you.