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Author Topic: New taper starter gear questions...now all geared up!  (Read 13131 times)

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Offline nolamule

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New taper starter gear questions...now all geared up!
« on: November 25, 2015, 12:00:47 PM »
Greeting’s y’all! I am new to the taper world but an old hat in the live music scene. Recently I have been toying with the idea of getting a taping rig for a different show experience. I have been doing some extensive research and here is what I have come up with for my first rig. I don’t have a ton of cash to spend (~$1,500) but also don’t want to waste my time with lousy recordings. Please provide any comments on any of the selections I have made, comparisons between products, or better options. I will be primarily taping local concerts in small venues, arena shows, and outdoor festivals.

Mics: AKG C460b CK61
Mic Preamp / A2D Conversion: Apogee Mini-Me
Recorder: Roland R-09HR
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 11:20:23 PM by nolamule »

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 01:26:37 PM »
Welcome to TS!

I'm sure others can chime in with specific recommendations, but I'd swap out the MiniMe > R-09HR with a standalone record that acts as preamp, ADC, and recorder all in one.  I, for example, use a (quite outdated at this time, but still very functional) Fostex FR-2LE.

You should be able to pick up an all-in-one recorder for under $500 used, for sure, and probably new...though I'm not up to speed on current recorders.  That should leave you a good balance of budget to dedicate to mics.  And don't forget you'll blow ~$100-200 of the budget on accessories like mic cables, mic mounts, mic stand, etc.
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 01:42:48 PM »
Greeting’s y’all! I am new to the taper world but an old hat in the live music scene. Recently I have been toying with the idea of getting a taping rig for a different show experience. I have been doing some extensive research and here is what I have come up with for my first rig. I don’t have a ton of cash to spend (~$1,500) but also don’t want to waste my time with lousy recordings. Please provide any comments on any of the selections I have made, comparisons between products, or better options. I will be primarily taping local concerts in small venues, arena shows, and outdoor festivals.

Mics: AKG C460b CK61
Mic Preamp / A2D Conversion: Apogee Mini-Me
Recorder: Roland R-09HR

I don't think that recorder has a digital input. So you'd be left using the Roland's A/D section - that seems like a big compromise.

And - That's sort of a dated rig/approach - and harkens back to the (not too distant) days when it was hard to find small portable recorders with good front ends that could handle high SPLs well.

Starting around the Fostex FR2-LE - that began to change - and has really opened up with newer devices form Zoom and Tascam.

I'd be shooting for an all-in-one recorder - and ditch the preamp...as many have done.

Spend money on mics for best effect.

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 01:50:29 PM »

I don't think that recorder has a digital input. So you'd be left using the Roland's A/D section - that seems like a big compromise.

And - That's sort of a dated rig/approach - and harkens back to the (not too distant) days when it was hard to find small portable recorders with good front ends that could handle high SPLs well.

Starting around the Fostex FR2-LE - that began to change - and has really opened up with newer devices form Zoom and Tascam.

I'd be shooting for an all-in-one recorder - and ditch the preamp...as many have done.

Spend money on mics for best effect.

Like a Zoom H6? What if I could get my hands on a V2 as the preamp?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 02:01:32 PM by nolamule »

Offline JimmieC

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 02:38:18 PM »
^ I love my V2.  The preamps / phatom power in these days digital recorders are better than they used to be, at least compared to the DAT recorders I had.  I still love my V2 and almost allows run AKG 460 or Naiant couplers ~> V2 ~> digital recorder.
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Mic:AKG C460B(CK61)/HM1000(CK32/CK47), Naiant Couplings/PFA, ADK-TL; Preamp:Lunatec V2, Naiant Littlebox v1.5; Rec:Tascam DA-P1/DR-100mkii/DR-680; Cable:GAKcables; Bar:Shure A27M, Robb Bar 23-cm, it-goes-to-eleven DINa Active Bar, GAK 3' Bar; Mount:Shure A53M, Audix MC-MICRO; Clamp:AKG K&M 237, Photek Grip Clamp w/Manfrotto 042; Stand: Manfrotto Alu Master 3 Riser 12' AC Stand/122B, Lowel Full Pole; Battery:18000mah Universal Lithium Battery; Playback:laptop>Schiit Modi>Yamaha HTR5890>Klipsch Synergy F2. My recordings on LMA

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2015, 02:46:51 PM »
^ I love my V2.  The preamps / phatom power in these days digital recorders are better than they used to be, at least compared to the DAT recorders I had.  I still love my V2 and almost allows run AKG 460 or Naiant couplers ~> V2 ~> digital recorder.

V2 are hard to come by it seems. The one I was looking at sold.

Here is the new setup I am looking at:

Mics: AKG C460b CK61
Preamp/ADC = Sound Devices USBPre 2
Recorder = Marantz PMD660/661 (has digital input)


Offline JimmieC

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2015, 02:50:47 PM »
Additionally, you can use the USBPre2 as a DAC at home but I have not used one.  Others know better.
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Mic:AKG C460B(CK61)/HM1000(CK32/CK47), Naiant Couplings/PFA, ADK-TL; Preamp:Lunatec V2, Naiant Littlebox v1.5; Rec:Tascam DA-P1/DR-100mkii/DR-680; Cable:GAKcables; Bar:Shure A27M, Robb Bar 23-cm, it-goes-to-eleven DINa Active Bar, GAK 3' Bar; Mount:Shure A53M, Audix MC-MICRO; Clamp:AKG K&M 237, Photek Grip Clamp w/Manfrotto 042; Stand: Manfrotto Alu Master 3 Riser 12' AC Stand/122B, Lowel Full Pole; Battery:18000mah Universal Lithium Battery; Playback:laptop>Schiit Modi>Yamaha HTR5890>Klipsch Synergy F2. My recordings on LMA

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2015, 02:57:52 PM »
Spend money on mics for best effect.

Seconded. If I had a $1500 budget I'd probably put nearly $1000 towards the mics, if not more.

My rig (see signature) runs right around $1500 (used). Trouble is that it will be hard to find those mics and that preamp...but there are other similar options.

Off the top of my head...couple of other mic options in the $1000 range. Beyerdynamic MC930 (full body version of what I have), Neumann KM184, Milab VM-44, Peluso CEMC-6. I'm sure there are other options, but that is what comes off the top of my head.

Remember you can always upgrade things later (and you will). Mics will most certainly be where you'll hear the biggest difference.
||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 | DPA 4022 | DPA 4080 | Nevaton MCE400 | Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
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Offline hoppedup

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2015, 03:03:21 PM »
My primary rig in the last year has been mics straight into a Tascam DR-60D.

I was using Milab VM-44 links straight into the recorder. Now I am using AKG SE300b CK91 in the same way. I borrowed a V2 for a few shows and found I preferred the sound of my recordings with no preamp in the chain. I bought the milabs for $1200 used. If you could find a deal like that and put it with a $200 recorder (DR-60D or 60DmkII), IMO you'd have a solid rig

I'd run mics straight into one of the newer recorders. You can always buy a preamp later if you feel you need to.

Don't forget you're also going to want to pick up mounts, cables, clamps, stand, bag and other accessories. It adds up.
AKG SE300B CK91
JB Mod NAK 300 CP1 - CP2

Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-22WL, Marantz PMD-706
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Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2015, 03:33:08 PM »
Noted guys: spend the money on mics upfront because everything can (and will) be upgraded later.

I have a line on some used AKG C460b and C480b both with CK61. Any preference on these or better options at the $1000/set price point?

As for the Preamp/ADC/Recorder I think I like the Tascam DR-680MKII because it has digital input in case I add a preamp/adc later.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 03:42:42 PM by nolamule »

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2015, 11:27:36 PM »

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2015, 09:40:01 AM »
I love my 60D and haven't run a preamp since I got it. No need and it sounds great. And you can sell the soundforge license of you don't have any need for it, saving even more.
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2015, 02:18:14 PM »

I also run a Tascam DR60d and think the built in mic preamps sound just fine for concert taping.

If I had 1500 bucks and I was putting together my first taping rig I would go with an all in one recorder of some sort (like the DR60d) or a modified one like this Tascam HDP2 with the Busman mod here http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175477.0. Or I would go with a separate preamp and recorder setup like a SD MP2>Sony M10 If you don't mind managing extra cables and batteries,

For mics I would go with
AKG 460/ck61/63
Neumann KM184
ADK TL (large diaphragm multipattern mics that are big and heavy but sound great and are cheap)
Peluso CEMC6 with all capsule patterns can be had brand new for around a grand, sound very Neumannish

Leave enough in your budget for cables, batteries, stand and whatnot. If you have been in live sound for a while you may have that stuff already sitting around or can roll your own....if not there is a thread in the Retail Space section with a link to community cable makers that can hook you up. I recommend Ted Gakidis. His cables are quality work and reasonably priced.

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Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

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Offline acidjack

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2015, 02:07:15 PM »
Dump the Apogee. Sounds good, but way outdated. Dump the R-09 -- outdated and no reason to run 2 boxes.

Get the AKGs and run them into a Roland R-26. One four channel box does it all. Outboard Preamps are a waste of time and money for the most part. I own some, but I've also got straight into my decks hundreds of times, and honestly, the difference is negligible these days. I've run just about everything at this point, FWIW.

I'd avoid anything branded Tascam even if the alternative was 2-3X the price. Just check any thread around here and read about the litany of issues.

I would have said the same about Zoom, but the F8 seems rock-solid, and that may be the case for the H6 as well (haven't used it).
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

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Offline swordfish

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2015, 04:16:09 AM »
..I am considereing to spare the below

AKG CK61, 62 ,63
Naiant actives
Naiant Tinybox lately modified by Jon with the new battry type and a belt clip
3 mic bars made to fit the Naiant actives....

note that I joint the Schoeps club and could use the money to buy more Schoeps gear...

IMO that will make a prefect starter set for open and  >:D taping


Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2015, 09:06:08 AM »
I think adorama just had or has the 60dii for $125.  I think it has the same preamps on the xlrs as the 680mkii.  If you don't mind the block of butter size case, my 60d has given reliable service.  That leaves a huge chunk of the budget for mics.

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2015, 10:28:36 AM »
Thanks for all the info and opinions, my head is spinning with options.

Here is what I am thinking now (wife says I can spend a little more):

Option A: AKG C460 w/ C61 > SD USBPre2 > Sony M10

Option B: AKG C460 w/ C61 > Zoom F8

Price is about the same for either option. 

Or do I wait and save some more money and look for a used SD 702 (one sold for $1,150 recently)?
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 10:47:50 AM by nolamule »

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2015, 11:18:45 AM »
Thanks for all the info and opinions, my head is spinning with options.

Here is what I am thinking now (wife says I can spend a little more):

Option A: AKG C460 w/ C61 > SD USBPre2 > Sony M10

Option B: AKG C460 w/ C61 > Zoom F8

Price is about the same for either option. 

Or do I wait and save some more money and look for a used SD 702 (one sold for $1,150 recently)?

If you add the 702 as a third option, I think that any of those options would give you a great rig.  I'd rate them fairly evenly and differentiate based on how you think you'll go from here.  If you prefer the USBPre2 for it's standalone capabilities, it rates higher.  If you think you'll be expanding your rig later, the Zoom F8 rates higher because it has more channels and timecode.  If you want the highest quality, proven dependable for the long haul, the 702 rates higher.  I personally think these three choices are about the best options of those presented so far. 

Note also that those saying $100 to $200 for extras...I don't know how anyone could possibly spend $100 and get everything you need.  I'd personally be hard pressed to come in under $200.  A good mic stand alone is going to run you $70 minimum and PLEASE don't waste your money on a cheap one.  You'll only end up throwing it out and buying a better one anyway, so save yourself the wasted $30 or $40 up front, unless you can find a good one used.

Here ya go:

Stand 70
XLR cables 40
Mic Mounts 40
Wind Screens 40
Clamp 20
TBar 20
Gear Bag 40
Flashlight 20
Bungies/Cable ties/Velcro ties  15
Rechargeable Batteries 50-100
Cable to go between battery and recorder 40
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 11:22:40 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2015, 11:30:17 AM »
..I am considereing to spare the below

AKG CK61, 62 ,63
Naiant actives
Naiant Tinybox lately modified by Jon with the new battry type and a belt clip
3 mic bars made to fit the Naiant actives....

note that I joint the Schoeps club and could use the money to buy more Schoeps gear...

IMO that will make a prefect starter set for open and  >:D taping

I PM'd you to get some more info on your setup.

Anyone have any opinions on the Naiant actives > Tinybox compared to my previous selections?

Offline willndmb

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2015, 12:14:32 PM »
POW! $179...leaves plenty for mics!!!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/929347-REG/tascam_dr_60d_4_ch_track_linear_pcm.html
$125 after rebate in the retail section

love the naiant actives too
unless you need/want the zoom functions, you are going to pay a lot for it. I say go with the sd > m10 and/or d60
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 12:17:22 PM by willndmb »
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2015, 12:52:18 PM »
POW! $179...leaves plenty for mics!!!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/929347-REG/tascam_dr_60d_4_ch_track_linear_pcm.html
$125 after rebate in the retail section

love the naiant actives too
unless you need/want the zoom functions, you are going to pay a lot for it. I say go with the sd > m10 and/or d60

I'm also firmly in the cheaper recorder camp...its so little to invest for...essentially...the same end result/product as you'd get with ZOOM F8.

Except you'll being doing it with better mics...

If you get to point where you start wanting more than 4 channels - you can probably get most of your investment back in re-sale. A used DR-60Dmkii is going to be worth 100 bucks for a while...

Offline acidjack

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2015, 02:25:10 PM »
The USBPre2 is a very nice piece of gear; I owned and used it for several years. However, its main benefit is that it can be USB powered and that it connects digitally to recorders, which it cannot do with an M10. So that plus an M10 is not a good match; if anything, that plus a used D50 is the smarter move.

It is true that recorders lose their value more than other equipment; that's why I ultimately went with a Zoom F8 and not a $5500 Sonosax SX-R4+. But I wouldn't just take any piece of junk at the most cut-rate price and go with that. Most of the cut-rate junk, like virtually every offering by Tascam, costs that little for a reason. If you look at the threads, you'll see lots of "little quirks" and problems that add up to a big pain. Again, I'm not just making that up; I've owed at least three Tascam units.

Personally, I also prefer an all-in-one solution, rather than multiple different failure points in the chain. Decks like the Roland R-26 ($500) are excellent as all-in-one boxes, plus that deck also has two extra channels you can use for an SBD or with an outboard pre. The F8 is, so far, a very nice piece of equipment, robust in build, with lots of options, and it can be controlled remotely by an app on an iPhone, which to me is a huge benefit. However, it might also be more than you "need." I'd also look for a used Edirol R-44, which can be had for about $550. That thing is a rock-solid piece of equipment that is easy to operate, sounds good, and works correctly every time.

 I guess if you go to only shows with a lot of other tapers, it doesn't really matter if your gear fails from time to time. With most of mine, if I screw up, there won't be a tape of it, so I prefer reliability and certainty of execution over all things.

Also, further back it seemed you were considering Schoeps. If you are (and you don't necessarily need to; the AKGs are great mics) I would not buy some AKGs as an "interim step." You'll just end up basically making the Schoeps you actually want more expensive by buying an incremental upgrade that you're going to change out later.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

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Offline cybergaloot

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2015, 03:03:40 PM »
I just checked the Roland R-26 (I need another recorder like a hole in the head) and they are down to $400. I love my R-44 and wont part with it for anything.
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Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2015, 11:30:25 AM »
What's a good price for gently used AKG c480 pair w/ ck61?

Offline darby

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2015, 11:45:27 AM »
What's a good price for gently used AKG c480 pair w/ ck61?

around here... $800
ebay... not that low  :-\

I sold a pair of 480 bodies earlier this year for $450, ck61 capsules typically go anywhere from $300 to $350 around here

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2015, 01:29:02 PM »
What's a good price for gently used AKG c480 pair w/ ck61?

around here... $800
ebay... not that low  :-\

I sold a pair of 480 bodies earlier this year for $450, ck61 capsules typically go anywhere from $300 to $350 around here

What about a single CK69 shotgun?

Offline carlbeck

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2015, 01:50:06 PM »
My thoughts are to spend the bulk of your budget on quality mics. While admittedly being a preamp whore in the past with today's current multi channel decks you get pretty solid preamps so at the end of the day the difference for what we do is negligible & with some subtle eq almost not worth carrying around the extra preamp, cables & battery. The microphones will impart the most of the sonic signature of your recording anyway so it makes the most sense (to me at least) to spend most of your budget there.

The AKG's are an excellent choice but make sure you save up for some hypers if you buy the cards (61's) first. I prefer the warmth of the 460's over the 480's personally after having multiple pairs of each but you can't go wrong either way. You can tape for years with AKG's & make great tapes but if your considering moving towards Schoeps you'll probably be better off just buying them. If your budget won't allow that in a feasible time, in other words you want to buy something sooner rather than later then go AKG's. What we do is funny, I've pretty much always owned multiple mics with at least one set being AKG, paying for Schoeps isn't a gaurentee of superior recordings, either set of mics will sound great if the location & technique is there. The flavor between various mics is the difference using the same technique, sure obviously some mics or more specifically patterns will have an edge over the other but any of the top quality microphones we use around here will have similar results all things being equal. Buy what you like, tape for yourself & your own ears. It's much more fun & rewarding working on your technique than spending money. In the end you have a lot of choices, don't be overwhelmed, there's a lot of knowledge around here to help you make an educated buying decision. Good luck & have fun!
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2015, 09:35:11 AM »
Anyone have any input on the moded recorders from Oade?

http://www.oade.com/

I think I have settled on the AKG 480s but still trying to figure out what to do about a preamp, ADC, & recorder.

Offline carlbeck

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2015, 09:39:11 AM »
I've had a few Oade modded item's in the past & highly recommend them. Doug is one of the greats & pioneer's in what we do. Have no fear dealing with him.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2015, 09:45:51 AM »
I've had a few Oade modded item's in the past & highly recommend them. Doug is one of the greats & pioneer's in what we do. Have no fear dealing with him.

Trying to figure out if a Oade moded 661MKII or R44e stand up to a SD702. What do you think?

Also right now in YS, I can get a SD USBPre2>R44 or a SD702 for about the same price. I like both these options.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 09:49:42 AM by nolamule »

Offline carlbeck

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2015, 09:54:49 AM »
It will surpass the 702 in sound quality IMO but the build quality is pretty stout on the SD products. I'm a fan of warm preamps & found my 702 was rather neutral. If you want neutral & clean then just get the 702 but if you want some flavor then go Oade.

Slightly off topic but while the 702 is stellar, it is showing it's age at this point. I personally wouldn't buy one new for the asking price since as a hobbyist I am comfortable with the durability & dependability of newer other prosumer gear. The new Zoom F8 sounds better to me with 8 channel's vs the 2 channel's from the 702 at a little more than half the cost.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2015, 10:01:20 AM »
I am only looking at used equipment at this point, unless I go Oade.

Offline carlbeck

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2015, 10:04:44 AM »
Gotcha but how much is a used 702? Still around 1k? There are some better choices IMO for that money.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2015, 10:06:06 AM »
Yes, right at $1k

Offline willndmb

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2015, 12:16:59 PM »
Does oade still do work?
I thought I read a couple yrs ago he wasn't doing stuff anymore

I too think you can get just as good quality for much cheaper then the sd 7xx in today's world
Build quality is prob still the best though
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 12:18:36 PM by willndmb »
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2015, 03:08:33 PM »
Here it is...I think I have made up my mind!

AKG C480b CK61 > Roland R-44 (w/ Oade concert mod)

I will add CK63 & CK69 down the road. Any objections?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 11:32:07 AM by nolamule »

Offline caymanreview

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2015, 05:00:20 PM »
i just mailed my 671 to oade a few months ago. he was backlogged a couple weeks. so he is still doing something

Offline caymanreview

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2015, 05:06:27 PM »
nola i think that is a fine setup. im a huge akg fan. highly reccomend the ck63 hypers. where i live most venues are horrible at best that i frequent, and i almost always run hypers.

i think the deal with oade a few years ago was that he was having serious back problems or something and took some time off. if i remember correctly


Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2015, 10:48:57 PM »
Still can't shake the 702. R-44 vs 702 what do y'all think?

Offline acidjack

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2015, 12:31:47 AM »
Still can't shake the 702. R-44 vs 702 what do y'all think?

That's an apples to oranges comparison. The 702 is an elite, tank-like pro 2-channel deck. The R-44 is a "prosumer," very reliable, easy-to-use, 4-channel deck. The 702 is obviously going to spec out better; it costs 2X or more as much, and it's built for true pro use. However, that does not mean it's better for your purposes, especially if that purpose is recording loud rock.

As someone who had the choice, I ran USBPre2>R-44, which gives you the Sound Devices preamp sound with the ease, convenience and price of the R-44. I had the "Oade Mod" and since have been borrowing a non-modded R-44. Honestly I'm not sure there's that much difference.

But anyone who tells you an R-44 is "the same as" a 702 is kidding themselves. Sound Devices products are top of the line. The real question is what that top of the line gets you. My R-44 never failed through hundreds of shows, and that has been a consistent result for most people. But is an SD744 (the better comparison) "better"? Of course it is.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2015, 11:31:22 AM »
Alright guys I found my rig! Going with the AKG 480s with CK61 (getting a single CK69 too!) > SD 702 (Thought I had the 702 but counted my chicks before they hatched)

The guy I am buying the mics from is throwing in some high quality XLR cables.

Here is what I am looking at to complete the rig:

Manfrotto 1004BAC Master Stand
K&M 23510 Microphone Bar
Sony MDR7506 Professional Large Diaphragm Headphone
AKG SA 60 Stand Adapter (2)



« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 12:01:24 PM by nolamule »

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2015, 11:56:37 AM »
I think Audio Technica ath-m50 headphones are a better value or use earbuds for noise isolation and for being much easier to transport.  Shure SE215s IEMs might still be on sale for $89 at various places. 

SD702 is a quality piece of gear. 

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2015, 12:02:34 PM »
I think Audio Technica ath-m50 headphones are a better value or use earbuds for noise isolation and for being much easier to transport.  Shure SE215s IEMs might still be on sale for $89 at various places. 

SD702 is a quality piece of gear.

Didn't even think about using earbuds. I have two nice sets...money saved! Thanks!

Offline acidjack

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2015, 03:19:38 PM »
I think Audio Technica ath-m50 headphones are a better value or use earbuds for noise isolation and for being much easier to transport.  Shure SE215s IEMs might still be on sale for $89 at various places. 

SD702 is a quality piece of gear.

Didn't even think about using earbuds. I have two nice sets...money saved! Thanks!

Yeah, for monitoring at shows, I don't know why people use full size headphones. Some decent IEMs will do the trick, for sure.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline hi and lo

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2015, 04:33:59 PM »
I think Audio Technica ath-m50 headphones are a better value or use earbuds for noise isolation and for being much easier to transport.  Shure SE215s IEMs might still be on sale for $89 at various places. 

SD702 is a quality piece of gear.

Didn't even think about using earbuds. I have two nice sets...money saved! Thanks!

Yeah, for monitoring at shows, I don't know why people use full size headphones. Some decent IEMs will do the trick, for sure.

Not using IEM's is outright dangerous. Closed-back headphones typically provide only 10-15 dB of noise isolation while IEMs can provide 30-40dB with the right tips. In order to hear the monitor mix over the PA when using closed-back headphones, there's no choice but to crank the volume to dangerously high levels.

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2015, 04:15:00 PM »
I think Audio Technica ath-m50 headphones are a better value or use earbuds for noise isolation and for being much easier to transport.  Shure SE215s IEMs might still be on sale for $89 at various places. 

SD702 is a quality piece of gear.

Didn't even think about using earbuds. I have two nice sets...money saved! Thanks!

Another vote here for IEMs. The Shure SE215 set is hard to beat for the price. They have great isolation and they are much easier to pack than headphones. Really all you are listening for is that you have a clean signal on all your channels and that you aren't picking up something unwanted like HVAC noise. No need to monitor the entire show.

Yeah, for monitoring at shows, I don't know why people use full size headphones. Some decent IEMs will do the trick, for sure.
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #46 on: December 05, 2015, 04:24:37 PM »
In agreement with acidjack and hi and lo regarding monitoring your mix at shows: IEMs or even earbuds are the way to go.  I used to cart a full-sized set of closed-back cans to shows and, aside from the large and unnecessary amount of space they took up in my gearbag, they didn't isolate nearly as well as IEM's.  hi and lo's point about having to crank headphones up to dangerous levels just to hear your mix is a valid one. 

acidjack also posted some excellent comments comparing the R-44 to the SD decks.  While I've never owned an SD recorder, I do have a few of their preamps and their gear is built tough.  Then again, I've also had an R-44 for the past 7+ years that has given me completely reliable service in all that time.  Works every time as it should and, were I to suddenly find myself having to replace it for one reason or another, would buy another one again in a heartbeat. 

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #47 on: December 05, 2015, 09:15:52 PM »
Thanks for all the input guys! It has been so much fun researching and shopping, y'all's input/pinions are priceless to help me sway myself one way or another. Keep them coming!

At this point I think I have everything ordered except a preamp/adc/recorder. Still waiting for the right quality vs. quantity deal!

I hope to record my first shows after NYE or maybe Anders in NOLA in a couple weeks if I can pull it all together!
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 09:30:13 PM by nolamule »

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2015, 12:50:28 AM »
Can anyone recommend a good mic mount? Should I go with a shock mount? Currently I am looking at the AKG SA 60 for my 480s.

Also is the K&M 23510 Mic Bar a good option?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 12:53:07 AM by nolamule »

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2015, 02:51:11 PM »
^  The topic of mounting microphones has been/is covered ad nauseam here on these boards, but the quick rundown:

- If you're clamping to balcony or hand rails, basically to anything except a stand, shock mounts are a necessity.  You only need one ADHD case banging away on the railing you're clamped on to ruin your recording.  After trying out a multitude of solutions the Rycote InVision mounts (the INV-7 model is very versatile) are, to me, hands down, the best.  The price you pay up front (~$65 per mount; you'll need one for each mic) is a pittance for the quality product you buy.  Lightweight, nearly indestructible, and very good at isolating your microphones, it's a no-brainer, IMHO.  Be sure to use the cable clips on them to limit vibrations coming though the cables themselves. 

- As far as using shock mounts when mounting mics on a stand, some tapers swear that they've never had issues when using just regular microphone clips (like the AKG SA 60) and that logic seems sound in that the stand itself could possibly attenuate some vibrations.  That's all fine and dandy until some drunken fool or wook stumbling through the crowd grabs your stand to keep from falling or decides to shake it in time to the music. 

Personally, I always use shock mounts.  To me, it's cheap insurance. 

The K&M 23510 is a fine mic bar; the K&M 23550 is even simpler.  You can spend hundreds on more sophisticated solutions but either of those bars will work just fine for a stereo pair.

Offline steve4134

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2015, 04:15:22 PM »
I may have AT 84510's. Let me know if they would work for your application.

Steve
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Offline acidjack

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2015, 05:27:15 PM »
^  The topic of mounting microphones has been/is covered ad nauseam here on these boards, but the quick rundown:

- If you're clamping to balcony or hand rails, basically to anything except a stand, shock mounts are a necessity.  You only need one ADHD case banging away on the railing you're clamped on to ruin your recording.  After trying out a multitude of solutions the Rycote InVision mounts (the INV-7 model is very versatile) are, to me, hands down, the best.  The price you pay up front (~$65 per mount; you'll need one for each mic) is a pittance for the quality product you buy.  Lightweight, nearly indestructible, and very good at isolating your microphones, it's a no-brainer, IMHO.  Be sure to use the cable clips on them to limit vibrations coming though the cables themselves. 

- As far as using shock mounts when mounting mics on a stand, some tapers swear that they've never had issues when using just regular microphone clips (like the AKG SA 60) and that logic seems sound in that the stand itself could possibly attenuate some vibrations.  That's all fine and dandy until some drunken fool or wook stumbling through the crowd grabs your stand to keep from falling or decides to shake it in time to the music. 

Personally, I always use shock mounts.  To me, it's cheap insurance. 

The K&M 23510 is a fine mic bar; the K&M 23550 is even simpler.  You can spend hundreds on more sophisticated solutions but either of those bars will work just fine for a stereo pair.

I would take this advice. I also prefer the K&M 23550. And definitely use the Rycote mounts. Sturdy and good.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline nolamule

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Re: New taper starter gear questions
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2016, 09:56:57 PM »
Well things changed quickly for me. After making several recording with my 481s I decided I needed hypers and wanted to go with a ligther/smaller active setup. So instead of waiting to procure 63 caps and akg active, I jumped ship to Schoeps! I am waiting for everything to come in but in the VERY near future I will be the proud new owner of a supa' sweet mk41>kcy>pfa setup!

Appreciate all the questions answered over the past few months TS community! Looking forward to putting this gear to good use.

 

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