Topic: Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder

[UnknownVT]

Hi I'm new here  -

Tascam/Teac VR-10 Digital Recorder


I can be considered a noob - but I used to make casual live recordings years ago - initially with a Sony D7 DAT recorder - then various Sony MiniDisc recorders - took part in TapeHeads and DATheads newsgroups - and even built my own microphones from some well rated Panasonic capsules, that got published on the web.

But I haven't done any live recordings for years - until I noticed a friend with what appeared to be a pocket recorder set on a table recording - then it dawned on me that if photography and even videography had gone digital solid-state - ie: flash - don't know why I didn't realize or think of them before - so must audio recording equipment.

So did some minimal research and found portable digital recorders were easily available and reasonably priced.

First saw ConsumerSearch.com in their section "Professional Recorders" - this gave me a start -
using Amazon lists then gave me a better idea of what was out there and being sold -
then google searches found various reviews, comparisons, and here at TapersSection.com for more detailed discussion on them.

It didn't take me long to find out the Zoom H4n seemed to be most popular/coveted and highly rated portable recorder, but doing some searching including Amazon - found other popular recorders such as the Zoom H2n, H1 and Tascam DR-05, DR-07MkII.

But in the end I found a Tascam/Teac VR-10 on Amazon that was priced at $26.69, at the time, brand new so I bought it.

One of the main reasons and grateful to - was I heard a terrific live recording by member cd2go linked in Reply #13 - from April 02, 2011 in the thread New Tascam DR-03 competes with zoom H1

In the meantime - obviously I was looking at what would consider to be almost "ideal" - but obviously more expensive recorder - and saw the one I had targeted ($120 lowest price) - at $59 +$7 shipping, used - so I had to snap that up.

First live music recording with the Teac VR-10 was very good in parts, but I also got horrible distortion - this was because the AGC/ALC (auto record level control) could not handle the loud volumes even when set to low sensitivity.

So learned to use manual level control - and most of the time the record levels were down in 0-3 - right near the bottom - distortion problem solved.

One of my early tests was to use a larger microSDHC card fully charge up some eneloop AAA batteries and set the VR-10 on record with 24-bit 48kHz to see how long the battery would last since I had read complaints of short battery life - my one test managed 5hours 19mins worth of recorded files with any single max file size of 2GB (=2hr 4m at 24b48k)

The first VR-10 I got had problems of freezing/locking up if any buttons were pressed during recording.  This may not seem to be much of a problem - but this would include adjusting recording levels during recording, also the VR-10 is supposed to be able to manually create a new file during recording at any time - by pressing the REC key during recording create a new file and continue recording. This is very useful for recording each song to a separate file without stopping and restarting the recording.  BUT doing these could eventually cause the VR-10 to freeze up - and the only recourse is to pull out the battery.

Amazon were very good about replacing the recorder.

However the replacement I got had a much older version of the firmware, and had the same freezing problem.

Tascam USA website lists this item as discontinued and does NOT have any supporting downloads.  Contacting customer service gets only an auto e-mail acknowledgment with ref code (3PEC0QA2) - but NO actual response or help - so could not get latest firmware.

Teac/Tascam EU has downloads for manuals, but no firmware.

Teac.co.jp the Japanese site did have the firmware (http://www.teac.jp/product/vr-10/downloads/), but there were two versions - and release notes was in Japanese only - so I could not figure out which firmware to use, and more to the point how to do the firmware update.  Flashing firmware updates is critical and should not be done by guesswork as it can render the recorder inoperable.

I wrote Teac.co.jp (in English) to ask about the firmware update - they did respond within 24 hours  and the e-mail parts in English did point out which firmware to use (vr-10-40_103.zip, do NOT use the version with the "e" suffix - that is not for "English" but for another model in Japan that actually has the "e" designation) - but no instructions, or location of release Notes and instructions in English.

However I figured out 3 current Tascam models (DR-03, PR-10, DR-08) were based on the Teac VR-10/VR-20 series (again thanks to TapersSection from the above thread and TEAC VR-10/VR-20 = Tascam DR-08 in Japan), and the Tascam DR-08 had a firmware update and pdf release notes/instructions. 

No intention of using DR-08 firmware - but DR-08 release notes/instructions gave the changes/fixes and instructions on how to do the update - I cross-checked with the actual Japanese version of the pdf VR-10 release notes/instructions - by manually copying each paragraph and running the Japanese characters through google translate - to know with pretty good confidence that the notes/instruction were basically the same.

So I was able to do the firmware update successfully.

BUT guess what? the recorder even on the latest firmware that may have addressed this issue -
still Freezes eventually, if any buttons are pressed during recording.

Still, because of the very good sound quality (matches the Tascam DR-07MkII also at 24bit 48k), very small and handy form factor, and low price, I have decided to keep it despite the fatal flaw - as I will just record straight through and do the file splitting, post - inconvenient - but I can just about live with it to gain this very neat small recorder that records very good sound quality.

[LikeASong]

A 24 bit recorder for $26.69 - ow yeah. Give it to me any day - with or without freezing problems!

[UnknownVT]

A 24 bit recorder for $26.69 - ow yeah. Give it to me any day - with or without freezing problems!

Thanks for the encouragement -
yeah, that's the way I felt -
I was simply amazed at how cheap it was -
(of course the price(s) have climbed back up to the $60's)
but the Tascam PR-10 'clone' can still be found for $49 shipped from Sweetwater.

Thanks

[LikeASong]

So you're keeping this as a back-up unit, or are you going to use as your main recorder?

[UnknownVT]

So you're keeping this as a back-up unit, or are you going to use as your main recorder?

OK remember I am still a neophyte -
I consider the Tascam DR-07MkII as my main (or serious  ) recorder -
but I have recorded two separate 2+ hours shows with both recorders literally side-by-side and both @ 24bit 48k -
other than volume differences - I did not notice any significant difference in sound quality. 
I listened with Sony MDR-V6 monitor headphones, as well as the Philips SHE3580 IEMs.  Listening not on the recorders, but on my PC.

But it seems that I am using this Teac VR-10 more often simply because it is small handy and not really intrusive/noticeable -
plus it was so cheap that if I lost it I would not cry (much, anyway  )

Thanks again.

[LikeASong]

So you're keeping this as a back-up unit, or are you going to use as your main recorder?

OK remember I am still a neophyte -
I consider the Tascam DR-07MkII as my main (or serious  ) recorder -
but I have recorded two separate 2+ hours shows with both recorders literally side-by-side and both @ 24bit 48k -
other than volume differences - I did not notice any significant difference in sound quality. 
I listened with Sony MDR-V6 monitor headphones, as well as the Philips SHE3580 IEMs.  Listening not on the recorders, but on my PC.

But it seems that I am using this Teac VR-10 more often simply because it is small handy and not really intrusive/noticeable -
plus it was so cheap that if I lost it I would not cry (much, anyway  )

Thanks again.

No fears and no worries acknowledging you're a neophite - that's perfectly fine, everyone has to start somewhere

Ok, the DR-07MkII is a great recorder, although I understand what you mean when you say you end up using the VR10 more often. Comfort and handiness is an important point of being alright when taping so carrying the less intrusive recorder is of course a big improvement - even more when the sound quality is so similar!

The internal microphones of many/most handheld recorders aren't as bad as most experienced tapers say. Of course, external mics are the way to go if you're a bit more serious about your recordings and want to expect a higher quality, but a pair of internal mics, if thehy're ideally placed and under not too high SPLs, will perform very good too and get you listenable recordings. Have you considered getting an unexpensive pair of external mics?

[UnknownVT]

The internal microphones of many/most handheld recorders aren't as bad as most experienced tapers say. Of course, external mics are the way to go if you're a bit more serious about your recordings and want to expect a higher quality, but a pair of internal mics, if thehy're ideally placed and under not too high SPLs, will perform very good too and get you listenable recordings. Have you considered getting an unexpensive pair of external mics?

I actually still have those homemade mics with circuit based on those Panasonic capsules -
I remember they made some impressive sounding recordings on those older digital recorders
I'll dig them out and see if they give any improvements over the built-in mics.

However I have been impressed with the sound quality so far from the internal mics.
I feel that placement has a lot to do with the overall sound quality - although I was very pleasantly surprised at how good one of my recordings was when this VR10 was placed literally off the side of the stage - the balance was far better than I had any right to expect - of course the stereo imaging left something to be desire - but it was nevertheless still acceptable - I guess I could mono it and just make L-R the same.

I just got back tonight from a gig where I thought I saw the meters hitting max - even though I had the manual record level down to 0 minimum - but pulling that recording into Audacity  - only showed two points of clipping both on the right channel only - expanding/zooming in on the waveforms the clipping remained a thin red linear line - and listening carefully I could not hear the clip - - the DR-07MkII may have possibly done better, but I'm not too sure

Not only that surprisingly the recording sounded better with clarity that was better than the actual live event, where I thought the sound was close to abysmal. So I remain impressed again with this cheapie VR10 and their internal mics.

Thanks,

[UnknownVT]

I can't get over how tiny this VR-10 is:

compared to the Tascam DR-07MkII, which is already considered compact,
and that's an AA battery included for size comparison.

[LikeASong]

Not only that surprisingly the recording sounded better with clarity that was better than the actual live event,

That's one of the things that surprised me when I started to tape shows. Sometimes, depending on the venue, the conditions, your gear and of course your placement, you can achieve a far better sound quality in your recording than what your ears get when you're there. In my experience this is rare and most times happens the opposite (recording sounds a bit worse than the live sound), but it can definitely happen. Glad you have experienced it too

Could you share some samples recorded with its internals? I've seen it going for 42€ in an online store and I might get it as a backup recorder if I like its internals enough.

And yes, its size is amazing given its quality. I assume the line/microphone inputs are on the upper side and the headphones output on the left side?

[UnknownVT]

Could you share some samples recorded with its internals? I've seen it going for 42€ in an online store and I might get it as a backup recorder if I like its internals enough.

Perhaps instead try a recording done by someone more experienced than me?

Terrific live recording by member cd2go using the VR-10 internals
linked in Reply #13 - from April 02, 2011 in thread New Tascam DR-03 competes with zoom H1
- cd2go's link to Archive.org (so it's free and legal)
http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

This was the recording that convinced me.

I assume the line/microphone inputs are on the upper side and the headphones output on the left side?

A picture may help - I used the stock pics of the white colored VR-10, as that shows better:

[F.O.Bean]

That's a damn fine recording!

[UnknownVT]

That's a damn fine recording!

Yes, I couldn't agree more - internals too -
that recording by cd2go absolutely convinced me of the quality of the VR-10 and internals -
it's funny I'm listening to it right now.

This is why I'm even posting here on TS -
because of the great info I had been reading
and that recording on the VR-10 using internals.

Another thing I have found, is to do a search on Archive.org by the recorder name
and often one can find recordings from almost any recorder we're interested in.

[F.O.Bean]

Yes, I label all of my recordings on the lma

[UnknownVT]

Yes, I label all of my recordings on the lma

That is so cool to be able to hear the SQ of any prospective recorder by experienced tapers.

And thank you for the corroboration about cd2go's recording -
it has so much more credibility coming from more experienced TS members

[LikeASong]

Damn, that sounds amazing. Defined and wide sound, zero distortion. Obviously very little stereo separation, but then again it's to be expected with L&R mics positioned that close. Stereo separation is not something I consider precisely "essential" so I can def. live with it. The recorder must have been mounted in an ideal place, although there is enough (in amount and close distance) audience sound to assume it wasn't much above the taper's head I think. Also, Irving Plaza is a standing-only venue so no chance of the taper being seated - he must have been among the audience or back at the sound desk.

Anyway, I simply have SERIOUS problems believing that recording to have been made with only those tiny internals. It sounds just too good for a $30 recorder. Even with ideal location and good moderate PA levels & SPL, I think it's just too good.

I might just get this. It's such small money that I've got not much to lose, and judging by that recordings, an awful lot to win. Thanks

[UnknownVT]

Damn, that sounds amazing. Defined and wide sound, zero distortion. Obviously very little stereo separation, but then again it's to be expected with L&R mics positioned that close. Stereo separation is not something I consider precisely "essential" so I can def. live with it. The recorder must have been mounted in an ideal place, although there is enough (in amount and close distance) audience sound to assume it wasn't much above the taper's head I think. Also, Irving Plaza is a standing-only venue so no chance of the taper being seated - he must have been among the audience or back at the sound desk.

Anyway, I simply have SERIOUS problems believing that recording to have been made with only those tiny internals. It sounds just too good for a $30 recorder. Even with ideal location and good moderate PA levels & SPL, I think it's just too good.

Hopefully you do mean unbelievable as in unbelievably good and not about any doubts whether those were the internals on the VR-10.

cd2go actually also recorded the next night -
from his post (reply #13 in that thread)

The PR-10/VR-10 are actually omnis, though it would be nice if they were cards. I picked up the Teac model for the rare times that I stealth thinking I would match it with some small externals, but then I made a few recordings with it and I must say I was impressed with the internals, especially for under $100:

http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

Now I could never say that this could be a substitute for my DPAs, but for the couple times a year when it's time to go under-cover, the ease of getting this into a venue (it's been wanded with no problem), setting up with one button push and no wires to hassle with and resting it on a balcony ledge or sticking it in a hat is what I'll be doing for now. I'm curious as to how the omnis compare to the DR-08 cards. I just don't like the bling/added size/flimsyness of the mickey-mouse ears.

Hopefully cd2go may take part in this thread -
so we can benefit from his experience of this recorder

[LikeASong]

Hopefully you do mean unbelievable as in unbelievably good and not about any doubts whether those were the internals on the VR-10.

Not serious doubts, I believe the taper, but I think there's something we must be missing. Maybe the guy had access to the soundboard zone or he used a stand to make a stack recording, or something along that lines. I'm quite reluctant to believe that a guy standing in the middle of the crowd with *only* that tiny recorder got that recording.

[UnknownVT]

Not serious doubts, I believe the taper, but I think there's something we must be missing. Maybe the guy had access to the soundboard zone or he used a stand to make a stack recording, or something along that lines. I'm quite reluctant to believe that a guy standing in the middle of the crowd with *only* that tiny recorder got that recording.

I can only go by what cd2go posted.
Hopefully he can clarify things.

There are other recording on the LMA using the VR-10 - some also sound pretty darned good (to me)

[F.O.Bean]

I believe him likeasong. Go for it and buy one and test for yourself!

[LikeASong]

Sure, I DO BELIEVE him as well! I myself have done quite impressive recordings with just a Zoom Q3HD internals, and I'm not as livid as many experienced tapers when it comes to discredit internal mics' ability to produce decent recordings. It's just that recording sounds much, much better than the recorder's price tag would lead you to believe in... I will get one just for the sake of it, and will make some direct comparisons between external mics and the VR-10 ones! I'm sure it will beat anything up considering its price!

[dallman]

This is a little off topic, but here is a recording I made while traveling, using the Tascam DR-08 and Church CAFS. Just regular "mic in" jack. I thought the recording was good enough that at the time I didn't want to post how I recorded it, as I figured Tascam DR08>CAFS would discourage people. Thanks to Texas hospitality, I had my rig atop a stand where OFOTD was running a much higher end rig. However if you hunt down his recording the 2 are remarkably similar. I am always amazed at this recording.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=548206

[LikeASong]

This is a little off topic, but here is a recording I made while traveling, using the Tascam DR-08 and Church CAFS. Just regular "mic in" jack. I thought the recording was good enough that at the time I didn't want to post how I recorded it, as I figured Tascam DR08>CAFS would discourage people. Thanks to Texas hospitality, I had my rig atop a stand where OFOTD was running a much higher end rig. However if you hunt down his recording the 2 are remarkably similar. I am always amazed at this recording.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=548206

I have done CAFS > Tascam DR-05 extensively during the past months and it's the most stealth rig available, and sounds great. In fact, it's the setup I'm going to compare to the VR-10 when I get it!

[UnknownVT]

Literally from earlier tonight -
Teac VR-10 internals
24bit 48kHz original -
split in Audacity -
AudioConverter to VBR MP3 -
ReplayGain (default 89db) added with MP3gain.

Download 4.28MB

The VR-10 was just laid on a taper's table on my homemade carry-bag (a sock ) on its flip out stand

Manual record level set on first number (hence the ReplayGain) and recorder was left unattended.

The reason why it was unattended was because I do photography at musical events - such as this -

actually taken during the posted song.

[LikeASong]

As expected, the venue, its sound and the location of the recorder are obviously the main factors (as in every taping situation I'd say). This doesn't sound as brilliant as the Irving Plaza recording, but the venue being a bar and the recorder lying loosely on a table don't help much to avoid that "muddy" feeling it has. Anyway, still pretty brilliant for a $30 thing that fits in the smallest pocket

[UnknownVT]

As expected, the venue, its sound and the location of the recorder are obviously the main factors (as in every taping situation I'd say). This doesn't sound as brilliant as the Irving Plaza recording, but the venue being a bar and the recorder lying loosely on a table don't help much to avoid that "muddy" feeling it has.

Thanks, point taken.

If anyone wants to judge potential quality of the VR-10
it should be based on a more experienced and attentive taper -
and not from an inexperienced and casual taper (ie: me)
where there may be the possibility for noob errors.

One should really judge the quality by cd2go's recording  -
as it shows potentially in the right hands and venue conditions etc -
how good the VR-10 even on the internals can be.

Having said that I think the recording was pretty good, "all things considered"
especially since it took virtually zero effort from me.

The taper that was there was "madtaper" so hopefully we'll see/hear his better recording on LMA.
Didn't note his gear - but if it is of any help/relevance his most recent LMA recording
Donna the Buffalo Live at The Shakori Hills GrassRoots Festival of Music & Dance on 2012-10-07
had these:
Source: Schoeps 4VCMC6s > Lunatec V3 > Sony M1
Lineage: PCM R500 > Tascam CDRW900 - direct digital transfer
Taped by: madtaper
Transferred by: madtaper

I do realize gear especially mics may change due to the venue.

[LikeASong]

I didn't mean to sound harsh or something - I stand by my last sentence instead It's a really nice recording specially taking into account that it was made with a $30 recorder and zero effort! These factors are important to me too. I mean, I have never pulled out a super-brilliant recording, but I have never spent more than $200 on any piece of gear either. Taking everything into account (money paid, efforts made, time spent) I am very happy with my results so far.

On a VR-10 -more-related news, I just missed one on eBay; there's another one but it's priced at 50€ plus 25€ shipping, so it's 75€ ($95 approx). Not as nice as $26 haha... Let's see if I can get it on the cheap anywhere.

[UnknownVT]

I didn't mean to sound harsh or something - I stand by my last sentence instead It's a really nice recording specially taking into account that it was made with a $30 recorder and zero effort! These factors are important to me too.

Thank you for your kindness -
please don't worry it was not taken as harshness -
I'm here to learn as much as I can and have to understand when critique is needed.

Anyway hopefully we now can acknowledge that the Teac VR-10 is capable of making almost unbelievably good recording ala cd2go brilliant recordings of Grace Potter.

Not that I am anywhere in that league - but here are a few more samples of casual recording in different and what I would consider perhaps difficult venues.

These are all
Teac VR-10 internals
24bit 48kHz original -
split in Audacity -
AudioConverter to VBR MP3 -
ReplayGain (default 89db) added with MP3gain.

121201 -

a gutted out shop space - the VR-10 was on top of the edge of an equipment cover that was leaning against the right wall about 12 ft from stage front -

Download 7.49MB

this is a big sound and very interesting band called the 4th Ward Afro-Klezmer Orchestra

121206 last night -

I think this jazz room sounds good - the entire performance was improvised - no set tunes.

this is a very nice flugelhorn solo by the guy in the picture - I think the tone is great.

Download 4.54MB

the next clip was the single exception where they went from one tune improvising/segue-waying into an almost anthem tune there, named after a great drummer - one can hear the overlap and change here

Download 10.19MB

The reason why I included this last clip even though some of it may sound a little off musically (to me) - it didn't matter a hoot to me because of the spirit of the thing (I realize it might be a case of "have to be there" - but I think the recording manages to convey that spirit) -
But technically because the beginning is very quiet/low acoustic piano - this ought to show the noise floor of the VR-10 on internal mics - then there are parts where the it goes loud with pretty sharp attacks - so ought to show the dynamics -

I should mention the interjecting phrases the trumpet player was standing right behind the recorder in the mid-back of the room -


I think it sounds pretty good, again - "all things considered", the VR-10 was set on a table front center about 6 feet away from the stage - next on the left of the table in the main stage picture (next to a Tascam DR-07MkII that was also recording......) while I was taking photos.

[UnknownVT]

Here's a SQ test I just thought of - playing a known CD on my home sound system - so at least a known source and reproducible (for me) - it's only budget-Fi but I took care choosing the components and think it sounds pretty good.  I used my CD test track as Sting's the Lazarus Heart from the Nothing Like the Sun.

The track was played at loud'ish volume - high enough to know it was loud - but not so loud to be uncomfortable -

The vr10 was set on a coffee table slightly to the left but pointing toward the middle between the two speakers - I do have a sub-woofer - which is on a separate channel on my amp.

I recorded less than 2 minutes so hopefully it is not viewed as deliberately infringing copyright -
there is 2 secs worth of "silence" at the beginning - but my room is far from really silent.

Download 2.43MB

Teac VR-10 internals
24bit 48kHz original -
split in Audacity -
foobar2000 to VBR MP3 -
ReplayGain (default 89db) added with MP3gain.

[cd2go]

Not serious doubts, I believe the taper, but I think there's something we must be missing. Maybe the guy had access to the soundboard zone or he used a stand to make a stack recording, or something along that lines. I'm quite reluctant to believe that a guy standing in the middle of the crowd with *only* that tiny recorder got that recording.

Hey guys, wow--who would have thought that of all my recordings, this one is getting the most attention, guess I can sell my DPAs now    Anyway, this was definitely recorded with the Teac's internals. As the info file states I placed it on the left balcony ledge which is in line with the left stack. This is a great example of how location trumps all. And luck helps too--I think the PA levels, mix, mic location, etc. all lined up for this one. Even when comparing with the next night in the same spot, this one sounds better to me. In less than ideal conditions (higher dB setting, farther back (these are omnis), more bass), I wouldn't expect the mics to perform quite as well. I'm glad I have it--I usually carry it to every show as a backup in case I don't get in with my full rig, at least I know I can make a listenable recording regardless 

Below is another GPN show with the Teac; I was FOB, deck in my hat, and this one has much more prominent (though not distorted) bass. Impressive that a recorder of this size and cost can handle these dBs:

http://archive.org/details/gpn2010-12-10.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

I've wondered how much better the Tascam DR-05 omni mics are, as I believe they are larger capsules and can handle 125dB; I have the DR-07 MKII (cardioids) and have been pleased with the results, definitely lacking some bottom end though.

Let me know if there is anything else I can add here...   

-james

[UnknownVT]

Hey guys, wow--who would have thought that of all my recordings, this one is getting the most attention, guess I can sell my DPAs now    Anyway, this was definitely recorded with the Teac's internals.
...
I have the DR-07 MKII (cardioids) and have been pleased with the results, definitely lacking some bottom end though.
...
Let me know if there is anything else I can add here...   

James -

Many thanks for participating in this thread -
as I posted earlier I am very grateful to you for that GPN recording -
as that showed me how good the recorder even on internals can be.

In my opening post I described that my two samples of the VR-10 had/have a fatal flaw - in that they would eventually lock/freeze up if buttons are pressed during recording - so I now studiously avoid touching any buttons during recording - so I cannot use the Rec button to split the recording to a new file without stopping the recording.  This is even on the latest firmware 1.03 build 0040.

The current (replacement) sample came with a much earlier version of the firmware 1.00 build 0031
and that also eventually froze up if buttons were pressed during recording.
(note: it's not normally the very first or just one press - but some later press.)
 
A controlled test I did of using the REC button to split/start a new file,
the 4th press froze the recorder -
I just did it again and this time it was on the 3rd press that froze,
one more time, and it was the 5th press that froze -
so it is not consistent
- when frozen - the only resort was to remove the battery to get the VR-10 to work again. 
If it's of any meaning the last file created is 0 bytes - which actually upsets the VR-10 if accessed.

Have you noticed this kind of behavior?

Now that I've accepted that - the VR-10 works fine - I have done battery life tests where I've left the VR-10 recording from fully charged eneloop AAA's and it recorded about 5hours 24mins straight through fine in 2x 2GB files (2hr 4m each) and the remainder in a third file (1.23GB=1hr 16m).

What I said about using the rec level buttons may not be right -
as I've just tried that to see if I could lock up the VR-10, and it seems fine on Rec level adjustment -
I pressed the |<<  and >>| buttons multiple times, including holding them so that the level was scrolled -
and I could not get the VR-10 to lock.

I'd like to take advantage of your experience of the VR-10 - of the good points,
and if possible avoiding or mitigating its weak points.

Ooops, sorry - Edit to Add -
my other recorder is the Tascam DR-07MkII as well - figured it was the recorder to eventually aim for -
but it came up used at a very advantageous price - so had to make a decision and bought it, even though I only just bought the VR-10 .....

Thanks

[LikeASong]

Thank you for your kindness -
please don't worry it was not taken as harshness -
I'm here to learn as much as I can and have to understand when critique is needed.

Anyway hopefully we now can acknowledge that the Teac VR-10 is capable of making almost unbelievably good recording ala cd2go brilliant recordings of Grace Potter.

(...)

I think it sounds pretty good, again - "all things considered", the VR-10 was set on a table front center about 6 feet away from the stage - next on the left of the table in the main stage picture (next to a Tascam DR-07MkII that was also recording......) while I was taking photos.

Nice recordings overall. Specially impressive is the second one, with the floor noise being almost imperceptible. I like how the recorder handled the trumpet dynamics, and although I'm not a fan of strong bass, this is just the good amount. Drums aren't lost either (congas are, though, and that's understandable). I guess a guitar would have been a bit lost if present, specially with the trumpet. Keyboard is there, also a bit drowned when all the instruments kick in, but it's understandable too.

My grandfather is a musician and producer and I was with him the night he had to tape a big band (2 trumpets, 2 saxophones, 1 tuba, 1 trombone and other stuff I can't remember, together with 2 guitars, 1 piano, bass, drums, etc) for an official release. He told me it was the most challenging taping he had ever done, since the brass dynamics used to overpower the rest of the instruments, but if they were lowered in the mix, they became too muddy and there was a lot of detail lost in their performances. He ended up mic-ing each instrument twice (with one cardioid and one omnidirectional mic each, and did different EQs and filterings for each) and the general stage sound with 4 omnis, and the overal mix was simply superb.
I myself have taped similar stage configs as yours, with one drumkit, one keyboard, one bass, one guitar and one sax or one trumpet many times, and I never achieved anything similar to your recording (that said, I haven't taped a show like that since 2011, my knowledge was smaller than it is today - but anyway).

I say all of this this just to tell you that I think I know what I'm talking about when I say you achieved a great recording with close-to-zero effort and with close-to-zero budget. And that, my friend, is something that not many people can say


PS. Good on you for choosing Sting for the sound test. I love him, and I love The Police. I've grown up with that music!

[LikeASong]

Hey guys, wow--who would have thought that of all my recordings, this one is getting the most attention, guess I can sell my DPAs now    Anyway, this was definitely recorded with the Teac's internals. As the info file states I placed it on the left balcony ledge which is in line with the left stack. This is a great example of how location trumps all. And luck helps too--I think the PA levels, mix, mic location, etc. all lined up for this one. Even when comparing with the next night in the same spot, this one sounds better to me. In less than ideal conditions (higher dB setting, farther back (these are omnis), more bass), I wouldn't expect the mics to perform quite as well. I'm glad I have it--I usually carry it to every show as a backup in case I don't get in with my full rig, at least I know I can make a listenable recording regardless 

Below is another GPN show with the Teac; I was FOB, deck in my hat, and this one has much more prominent (though not distorted) bass. Impressive that a recorder of this size and cost can handle these dBs:

http://archive.org/details/gpn2010-12-10.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

I've wondered how much better the Tascam DR-05 omni mics are, as I believe they are larger capsules and can handle 125dB; I have the DR-07 MKII (cardioids) and have been pleased with the results, definitely lacking some bottom end though.

Let me know if there is anything else I can add here...   

-james

Wow, James, thanks a lot for chiming in. First of all, congratulations for your recordings using this tiny thing we're discussing in this thread. They are impressive, specially if you take into account the cost of the recording and the effort/sacrifice needed to make such recordings.

I didn't know Irving Plaza has got balconies at all, but then again I haven't been there and I only know it because of watching some videos and stuff. Your Grace Potter recording there is truly superb and location, of course, is the key. Surely some of the other factors you mention (excellent PA equalization and levels, maybe even the crowd behaviour or the venue's condition that night) might have helped, but the thing is there. A bad gear with excellent conditions will *never* get you an excellent recording, IMO. So the gear is good You only have to get the best conditions and the good recording will happen eventually.

[UnknownVT]

Nice recordings overall. Specially impressive is the second one, with the floor noise being almost imperceptible. I like how the recorder handled the trumpet dynamics
...
My grandfather is a musician and producer and I was with him the night he had to tape a big band (2 trumpets, 2 saxophones, 1 tuba, 1 trombone and other stuff I can't remember, together with 2 guitars, 1 piano, bass, drums, etc) for an official release. He told me it was the most challenging taping he had ever done
...
I say all of this this just to tell you that I think I know what I'm talking about when I say you achieved a great recording with close-to-zero effort and with close-to-zero budget. And that, my friend, is something that not many people can say

WoW! thanks for your kind comments LikeASong, much appreciated.

Like you said it's kind of like real estate - location, location location.
I understand that as I've been a big music fan, photographer, reviewer and former casual taper for many years -
I also associate with a lot of local musicians and studio producers/engineers, so something probably has rubbed off on me.

I don't think I'll ever really graduate from being an inattentive casual taper -
as I do photography at gigs  -
but I am pretty impressed with the SQ of both my recorders this VR-10 and the Tascam DR-07MkII for the minimal effort demanded.

PS. Good on you for choosing Sting for the sound test. I love him, and I love The Police. I've grown up with that music!

OK overall take on that more "controlled" recording - I compared the recording against both my "live" sound system environment, and against the vbr MP3 ripped from the actual CD played on the computer.

To my ears the recording is overall more muffled - there is a slight increase in bass balance - but not necessarily to the good - the bass is less defined/crisp - and that goes for the upper frequencies - the whole reason I chose that track was for the cymbals sizzle - again it was less crisp.

Now having pointed out the shortcomings - I remain impressed with the recording - in isolation without any comparison - it sound pretty darned good - it was only after several repeated (almost to the point of nausea) continuous back to back comparisons that I could identify with confidence which was which (of course this may bring in the question of my listening/ears - but I think I have pretty good listening )

[UnknownVT]

A bad gear with excellent conditions will *never* get you an excellent recording, IMO. So the gear is good You only have to get the best conditions and the good recording will happen eventually.

Well put -
on any gear - one only has to get one single superb result to be able to say its performance is good
- as you pointed out, it's impossible for bad gear to do that.

I'll give the analogy in photography -
most understand the lens is one of the most critical components -
It doesn't need for every single photo to be superb to prove any lens' IQ (image quality)
- it only needs one really technically good photo to prove the IQ -
as it is impossible for a poor lens to do that.

So that's why I said that recording of Grace Potter by cd2go proves how good the VR-10 and internals can be -
(given the right circumstances and operator)

[F.O.Bean]

Now yinz know why I strive to be FOB/DFC at almost every show I record

[UnknownVT]

Direct comparison of Teac VR-10 to the Tascam DR07MkII -

from the jazz gig above -

the VR-10 was set on a table front center about 6 feet away from the stage - next on the left of the table in the main stage picture (next to a Tascam DR-07MkII that was also recording......)

recorded literally side-by-side.
both manual rec level
(Note: DR-07MkII had peak protection On - but I don't think it did anything except at the beginning while on pause of setting the initial rec level.)
If it's of any significance the VR-10 was on the right next to the DR-07MkII.

24bit 48kHz originals -
split in Audacity -
AudioConverter to VBR MP3 -
ReplayGain (default 89db) added with MP3gain.

Ali Solo -  flugelhorn solo -

VR-10 Download 4.54MB (same file as previously posted)

DR-07MkII Download 4.73MB


Kinah Boto - very quiet, then dynamic section -

VR-10 Download 10.19MB (same file as previously posted)

DR-07MkII Download 10.63MB

EDIT to ADD
Here's my controlled SQ test - Sting's Lazarus Heart from CD on my home sound system -
VR-10 recording is the same file as previously -
Tascam DR-07MkII literally recorded minutes ago:

VR-10 SQtest Download 2.43MB (same file as previously posted)

DR07MkII SQtest Download 2.55MB

[cd2go]

A controlled test I did of using the REC button to split/start a new file,
the 4th press froze the recorder -
I just did it again and this time it was on the 3rd press that froze,
one more time, and it was the 5th press that froze -
so it is not consistent
- when frozen - the only resort was to remove the battery to get the VR-10 to work again. 
If it's of any meaning the last file created is 0 bytes - which actually upsets the VR-10 if accessed.

Have you noticed this kind of behavior?

I'd like to take advantage of your experience of the VR-10 - of the good points,
and if possible avoiding or mitigating its weak points.

I have not noticed the deck freezing, but also I have never hit more than record and let it run. If it would help you I can certainly test mine to see if it is a widespread issue? Other than that I think the Teac speaks for itself: cheap, decent mics, easily concealable (have you seen the white colored model, that thing really looks like a cell phone), good battery life considering only 2AAAs. I would like to hear how the A/D stage is when feeding it a line signal, maybe I'll try that one day patching out of my MixPre. The best part of the VR-10? Well, the kickstand, of course 

-james

[UnknownVT]

I have not noticed the deck freezing, but also I have never hit more than record and let it run. If it would help you I can certainly test mine to see if it is a widespread issue?

Only if it's no trouble.

All I did was to start recording and about every 30 secs or so I pressed the Rec button to split the recording file - on both my samples eventually the recorder(s) would freeze where no buttons would respond in any meaningful way - and the recorder will not turn off - only recourse is to remove the battery.

Other than that I think the Teac speaks for itself: cheap, decent mics, easily concealable
...
good battery life considering only 2AAAs.
...
The best part of the VR-10? Well, the kickstand, of course 

Yep, I am very appreciative of the kick stand too.  I have use something to prop up the Tascam DR-07MkII.

My VR-10 lasts about 5hr 20mins on a pair of eneloop AAA

But the DR-07MkII is astonishing - lasting over 15hours on a pair of rechargeable LSD AAs
- both recording at 24-bit 48kHz

What do you consider the main SQ differences between the VR-10 and DR-07MkII?

I have posted direct comparison clips above for my 2 recorders.

Interesting what you said earlier about the mics on the DR-05 handling up to 125db SPL - that is impressive.
I am beginning to suspect that my first recording on the Teac VR-10 (the sample I returned for replacement) which had some horrible distortion - may have been mic overload -
I did use ALC and thought it may have been limitations in that - but I could not see any clipping on Audacity waveform display.

Thanks,

[UnknownVT]

A sample from a gig with difficulties -
acoustic instruments at an eatery - so lots of talking -
VR-10 set on table (on kick-stand) center - about 6ft away from band -

Teac VR-10 internals
24bit 48kHz original -
split in Audacity -
foobar2000 to VBR MP3 -
ReplayGain album gain to 85db added with MP3gain.

Download 3.1MB

[LikeASong]

Did they have any kind of amplification system at all or was it purely acoustic? The guitar at 1:20, where the violin stops, suggests it was all acoustic but you never know. Doesn't sound bad at all but obviously the abundant chatter makes it harder to appreciate. Catchy tune, by the way!

[UnknownVT]

Did they have any kind of amplification system at all or was it purely acoustic? The guitar at 1:20, where the violin stops, suggests it was all acoustic but you never know. Doesn't sound bad at all but obviously the abundant chatter makes it harder to appreciate. Catchy tune, by the way!

It's a jazz standard - Blue Skies - Irving Berlin -
"Blue skies smiling at me - Nothing but blue skies do I see ."

They had  pick-ups on the instruments, and tiny little amps, but I could also hear the instruments directly - especially the guitar, since its sound hole was somewhat facing in my/VR-10 direction.

I actually have tracks with people yelling - pity that such good performances get so little attention.

Sample this one:

Download 4.79MB
Swing 48 - a Django tune -
the guitarist Charles Williams is a world authority on Django Reinhardt

[UnknownVT]

Direct comparison of Teac VR-10 to the Tascam DR07MkII -
recorded literally side-by-side.
Ali Solo -  flugelhorn solo -
VR-10 Download 4.54MB (same file as previously posted)
DR-07MkII Download 4.73MB

Kinah Boto - very quiet, then dynamic section -
VR-10 Download 10.19MB (same file as previously posted)
DR-07MkII Download 10.63MB

Here's my controlled SQ test - Sting's Lazarus Heart from CD on my home sound system -
VR-10 SQtest Download 2.43MB (same file as previously posted)
DR07MkII SQtest Download 2.55MB

Listening to these I can tell the differences -

Controlled SQ test - although was not recorded side-by-side (and it would have been simple enough to do that) -
that was the whole point - other than perhaps setting the record levels - to me it is very reproducible/repeatable - since it is a CD played on my home sound system.

I am actually quite impressed by how close the recordings get to the CD ripped to the same vbr MP3 - even on close listening on good headphones - (well, at least for one of the recorders) -

Teac VR-10 in comparison is overall somewhat muffled, there is more bass emphasis and the treble is not as crisp - but overall it is still pretty good - especially considering there is the variable of my home sound system.

DR07MkII - now this was a revelation to me - it was overall a lot crisper/clearer sounding - but it lost some bass extension - it was so close that most of the time I would confuse the CD ripped to vbr MP3 (direct) to the DR-07MkII recording - now, taking into account that there is my home sound system intervening - this is quite remarkable, almost astonishing.

The two live tracks -
on both again the DR-07MkII was crisper with better clarity - but the bass although cleaner was not as good as the VR-10.
It seems I would prefer the DR-07MkII but wish it had more bass perhaps not that of the VR-10 because that seemed a little more muddled - BUT having made the comparison I think I would be happy with either recording.

Slightly Off Topic - since I had talked about the DR-07MkII - I recorded this last night of the same band from that noisy eatery -
this time in a better setting and better sound system with vocals - on the Tascam DR-07MkII

about 6ft away from stage, DFC -
DR-07MkII 24bit 48k original
internal mics set on A-B
split out in Audacity
foobar2000 converted to vbr MP3
ReplayGain (89db default) added with MP3Gain

Download 4.24MB

[UnknownVT]

I did this recording on the VR-10 on Thursday - and I thought it was pretty good 
- well, OK I am still a noob - so could do with constructive critiques, please.

This was an excerpt (last 5mins) of a tune from a suite at a jazz orchestra concert held in a church, with (to me) very good acoustics, and an attentive sound-person.

The VR-10 was set on the edge of a balcony slightly left of center (and soundboard) more or less from this viewpoint:


The excerpt has a quiet section then eventually goes into a full blown orchestral climax - simple to complex sound-wise and I think is a severe test and shows off the VR-10 capabilities (and shortcomings).

VR-10 internal mics
24bit 48k original
split in Audacity
foolbar2000 convert to vbr MP3
ReplayGain (89db default) added with MP3Gain)

Download 6.18MB

Please let me know what you think?

Thanks.

[LikeASong]

I think that the main focus in this matter should be the performance of this device DIRECTLY COMPARED to its price, size and usability. Of course the Tascam DR-07MkII will perform better many many times, but that's only to be expected for a device that costs and weighs 3 times as much (if not more) than the VR-10. A Sony PCM-D50 will perform much better than the Tascam DR-07mkII too, but it costs 500 bucks. It's all relative. I am more than convinced that the TEAC VR-10 is a gem for its price and I will be getting one as soon as I find an intersting enough deal inc- shipping costs.

By the way, I agree with your comparisons. The TEAC sounds a bit more muffled overall, but the Tascam lacks a bit of depth. It's all a matter of taste - but both sound very good for their price, that's not to be discussed at all

[UnknownVT]

I think that the main focus in this matter should be the performance of this device DIRECTLY COMPARED to its price, size and usability.

You are right and I agree with you!

This is the main reason why despite me liking the overall sound of the Tascam DR-07MkII more - that I actually deliberately use the Teac VR-10 considerably more - it is smaller more portable and discreet and the cheap price makes me less hesitant in taking it out more.

But to say it's only good for its price - is kind of like "damning with faint praise" -
I am not for a moment claiming it is the bestest in the world -
but the VR-10 sounds pretty darned good
punching way above its weight class - evidence?
please don't go by my noob recordings -
but please listen to cd2go's recording of GPN -
http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

By the way, I agree with your comparisons. The TEAC sounds a bit more muffled overall, but the Tascam lacks a bit of depth. It's all a matter of taste - but both sound very good for their price, that's not to be discussed at all

Again in agreement - for the price they are amazing - even not counting the price - they are still quite amazing - like I said I'd be happy with recordings from either - well, actually I am as evidenced by my recording count -
and I know potentially when all the stars line up I could get as a good a recording on the VR-10 as cd2go's brilliant one of GPN.  Although with the last jazz orchestra recording I think I may be getting there - it's funny that the position was similar left of center from the balcony.

From doing all those comparisons - I feel the VR-10 probably would do better in venues where the sounds can be too bright, or too lively/reflective - so its slightly muffled characteristic could help compensate for the overly bright environment.

The DR-07MkII may be more suitable for those gigs with more or heavier bass - as its slight lack of bass may help tone/tame the overly bass heavy venues (that's a lot of gigs) - and for acoustic gigs - where the crisper recording could help. 

Thanks again for you comments.

[UnknownVT]

I like this recording -
but would welcome some constructive critiques please:

VR-10 internal mics
24bit 48k original
trimmed in Audacity
foobar200 converted to vbr MP3
ReplayGain (89db default) added with MP3Gain -

Download 6.28MB

[F.O.Bean]

Sounds good. Decent soundstage and good overall balance!

[UnknownVT]

Sounds good. Decent soundstage and good overall balance!

Thank you so much for your comments, very much appreciated
 - more details in a bit,  thanks.

In the meantime - a couple more clips, literally from last night -


Download 6.51MB

Download 5.96MB

Comments welcome please -
especially any sonic/SQ  differences

[F.O.Bean]

They sound pretty similar to me. The 2nd track sounds like it has better vocals

[UnknownVT]

They sound pretty similar to me. The 2nd track sounds like it has better vocals

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Your comments are so useful/helpful to me -
I am extremely grateful for your quick response.

Details were in the MP3 tag -
both were:

VR-10 internal mics (no surprise)
24bit 48k original
split out in Audacity
foobar2000 converted to vbr MP3
ReplayGain (89db default) added with MP3Gain

They were recorded in the same continuous file only about 5 minutes apart (one other song in between) .

The second has a different person singing -
actually IMHO the singer - Larry Keel - has a great voice.


I think it may well have been my listening -
at first I thought the second had more and boomy/muddy bass compared to the first -
but this shouldn't have been - due to the exact same recording conditions -
my only mitigating excuse is that the first track started without the bass and on acoustic banjo (with pick up and amp) so sounded clearer/cleaner, before the bass came in - whereas the second track had more or less the full band from the start - being bigger sound may have fooled my ears into thinking the track as bassier. 

I have nothing against good bass, and it was an exceedingly good bassist - Oteil Burbridge (Allman Brothers) - that's why there was the comment at the end of the first track "we never could afford a band like this"!

Back to that other earlier track 01 tune1.mp3 -

Sounds good. Decent soundstage and good overall balance!

thank you also for the kind comment -
this was one of those recordings that turned out much better than it had any possible right to.
the VR-10 was set on its kick stand on a divider - about bar height,  to the right of stage -
more or less from this viewpoint:


I was really surprised by how good this sounded -
again I know I can be influenced by the song/performance -
and really needed more experienced ears and clearer/more objective head to give a more impartial judgement.
(although I also took into account that you probably are being kind too  )

Thank you.

[F.O.Bean]

Man upon listening, I'm actually really impressed with your most recent samples. They have good air to each instrument, good drums in the mix, overall good balance, and a soundstage I def didn't expect to hear from this little recorder. Might have to pick one up myself it's not schoeps good, but def sounds almost as good as the ca14s, at least IMO

[UnknownVT]

Man upon listening, I'm actually really impressed with your most recent samples. They have good air to each instrument, good drums in the mix, overall good balance, and a soundstage I def didn't expect to hear from this little recorder. Might have to pick one up myself it's not schoeps good, but def sounds almost as good as the ca14s, at least IMO

WoW! thank you so much for your genereous comments -
this is way beyond my expectations.

I kind of knew the Teac VR-10 was good - simply from that brilliant recording by cd2go -
but all mine were really only casual and unattended recordings -
and a few have actually been from far less than ideal conditions/positions.

I really liked the jazz orchestra concert in the church (First Congregational Church, Atlanta)
- I don't know if you'd include that:
recorded from approx this photo's position - vr-10 set on balcony - left of center and soundboard.

anyway I put up the full length of that excerpted piece -
which I think shows even better the dynamic range, and even air ...

Download 16.83MB

The most recent recordings - from Sunday Dec/16 were from a larger venue - the Variety Playhouse in Atlanta - to my ears the room tends to be a bit boomy - and the VR-10 was set way back right of the lighting console, which was to the right of the soundboard - but there were 2 tapers with tall mic stands set up about half way along the hall (ie: the VR-10 was about twice that distance away - with a back wall at about 6ft.)  this photo was the actual act on stage (minus the sax player) and taken more or less from the VR-10's position as was the previous shot where one can just about make out those mic stands (in front of the 4th person in from the left)


Thanks again - very much appreciated.

[F.O.Bean]

The jazzy tape sounds too distant, but that's likely for hat kind of music in that type of venue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not selling my schoeps anytime soon but for the $$, that's hard to beat! I would like to hear a comparison vs. a pair of ca14s!!!

[UnknownVT]

The jazzy tape sounds too distant, but that's likely for hat kind of music in that type of venue. Don't get me wrong, I'm not selling my schoeps anytime soon but for the $$, that's hard to beat! I would like to hear a comparison vs. a pair of ca14s!!!

Many thanks for your valuable comments.

I can hear what you are saying -
but I think that is why I liked the recording -
it seems to sound like the space/church and where it was recorded  -
when I first listened to it, I thought it was pretty faithful.

The piano was a bit low, and perhaps distant - but unfortunately that's how it was.

Thank you, it is always helpful to hear other and more experienced viewpoints.

[cd2go]

Update time. I made another recording (ironically also GPN) with the Teac VR-10 internals that I think builds on the case study here of how impressive the mics can be with this machine. So many "internal mic" threads get serious haters (no stereo separation, spend a little more to get CA-14s, etc.) so it's nice to see a positive discussion for once.

For this one, I was 25' from the flying left stack and about 20' from 4 double 15" or 18" bass cabinets, so this is the hardest I have pushed the mics in terms of dBs--with the recording level at 0, I peaked at -0.7dB on the deck! So it is definitely possible to go over with this, but it would have to be a very loud situation, but it is a consideration. I should test it out and see if it clips "gracefully" or not. I also forgot to mention something important, I use the "bass boost" setting when recording--I feel without it, the sound can be too thin.

Below are links to 3 sources from the show, the first 2 are mine and the last is JT/NY's for comparison. Unfortunately they are all from different locations, but I feel the Teac's sound speaks for itself, let me know what you think:

http://archive.org/details/gpn2013-02-06.dpa4022.mixpre.dr40.cd2go.flac24

http://archive.org/details/gpn2013-02-06.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

http://archive.org/details/GPN2013-02-06.AlbanyNY

As a side note, I did a battery run-time test with my home stereo. Off of regular Energizers I got 2 hours 20 minutes on 24/48 and with Energizer Ultimate Lithiums just over 7 hours. I see that these units are now discontinued (they are still selling the cardioid version DR-08). Amazon still has the black model for $85 and the white for $59 right now and I'm seriously considering grabbing one for when mine craps out. I would also love to hear the DR-05 mics side by side, as they are larger capsules and designed for louder input. Like I said I don't  tape much anymore but I always have this as a backup in case I do want to, or even if I can't run my full rig for some reason. The ease of sticking this in a shirt pocket or hat and not fussing with any wires sometimes can be very tempting; If my DPA source failed or if I was feeling lazy and didn't even want to bring my rig, I would have no problems coming home with the Teac source, YMMV.

-james

[F.O.Bean]

I like the Naks the most to be 100% honest. The Teacs are a close 2nd tho

[UnknownVT]

Update time. I made another recording (ironically also GPN) with the Teac VR-10 internals that I think builds on the case study here of how impressive the mics can be with this machine. So many "internal mic" threads get serious haters (no stereo separation, spend a little more to get CA-14s, etc.) so it's nice to see a positive discussion for once.

Thank you James for the follow up, and for providing us with another recording.

I did literal back to back comparisons with your stunning recording from Irving Plaza 03/09/2011 - http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24
I used two common tracks: "Ah Mary" and "Paris (Ooh La La)" -

to my ears the earlier Irving Plaza recording sounded clearer, brighter and with more definition - without seeming to give up any in the bass.
The more recent Kitty Carlisle Hart Theatre VR-10 recording sounds in comparison to be more recessed and slightly muffled - again this is with back to back comparison -

(I also compared back to back the two other recording using Ah Mary only
the other two were not that much better -
to my ears I think the Nak recording may better on the vocals  than the other two recordings of the same date -
but not as good as the VR-10 Irving Plaza, and overall it is still recessed compared to the VR-10 Irving Plaza.
Strange that your other recording seems to be biased toward the left channel.)

Please don't get me wrong - I think I'd be happy with such a good recording -
but if I made the stunning Irving Plaza recording I'd be ecstatic
and probably would really be crowing about it.

[flintstone]

The VR10 was replaced in Tascam's lineup in 2010 by the DR-08. 

The DR-08 adds cardioid mics in movable mounts, and the ability to record at 24/96.  Being able to point the mics can be useful.  For example, you can strap the recorder to a vertical pole and aim the mics forward.

Anyone here have experience taping with the DR-08?  I didn't find much via the search function.

[UnknownVT]

I see that these units are now discontinued (they are still selling the cardioid version DR-08). Amazon still has the black model for $85 and the white for $59 right now and I'm seriously considering grabbing one for when mine craps out. I would also love to hear the DR-05 mics side by side, as they are larger capsules and designed for louder input.

If it's of any interest at the Amazon listing they have used versions of both the black and white VR-10, in "very good" and "like new" conditions for around $32 shipped - that's a real bargain price for such a good and compact recorder

[dallman]

The VR10 was replaced in Tascam's lineup in 2010 by the DR-08. 

The DR-08 adds cardioid mics in movable mounts, and the ability to record at 24/96.  Being able to point the mics can be useful.  For example, you can strap the recorder to a vertical pole and aim the mics forward.

Anyone here have experience taping with the DR-08?  I didn't find much via the search function.

I have a DR-08 and really like it but I do not use it that much. Because it is so small, I keep it in my work briefcase so it is around for emergencies. This is the only show I ever posted made CAFS>Tascam DR-08. I couldnt be more pleased with how it turned out. http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=548206

[UnknownVT]

Slightly OT -
I don't monitor recordings with the Teac VR-10 (and/or my Tascam DR-07MkII)
- but usually during the break I like to hear what I've recorded -
for sometime I kept forgetting to bring along headphones......

Well those small IEM (In Ear Monitor) earphone are small and compact enough -
but a lot of the inexpensive are pretty poor -

However there are some pretty good sounding ones that are inexpensive -
a good reference is -
Multi-IEM Review - 271 IEMs compared at Head-Fi.org

One of the really outstanding ones is -
Philips SHE3580 IEM review--how can something sound so good for $10???

I now have multiple pairs of the Philips SHE3580 and they are astonishing and every bit as good as the numerous enthusiastic posts
- and at one time they could be found as low as <$6 shipped.

Unfortunately the Philips SHE3580 has recently been discontinued (for its replacement the SHE3590 - although it is said to be the same - feedback seems to suggest the original SHE 3580 may be "better")
there are some places that seem to be selling the SHE3580 at a premium -

I just found them at fleaBay for $6.95 shipped they claim to have more than 10+
and in black, blue, pink, and purple... ie: SHE3580, 3582, 3583, 3584 respectively

NOTE: from the item description -

New other (see details)
“OPEN BOX NEW, ITEM IS LIKE NEW! Original packaging was damaged and removed, item has been resealed in a poly bag. Show below. Item has been tested and sanitized if necessary.”

FWIW - I ordered a pair just before posting this - and according to eBay the item is already marked as shipped with a tracking number - now that is astonishingly fast!

Hope that helps.

[UnknownVT]

Back again with a couple more sample recordings from this cheapo Teac VR-10 using internal mics.

The first I think is quite extraordinary - considering the circumstances
venue was a museum atrium - not exactly known for good acoustics -
in fact it was pretty awful -


Recorder placement was on the table in front of the band - I moved the tip jar forward - so the VR-10 was pointing toward the band unhindered.


Original 24bit 48kHz LPCM converted to 44.1kHz MP3 vbr3 MP3Gain added:

Download 5.04MB

Can still hear the very echo-y room - but I think it does not detract too much.
Listening more carefully I can hear when the vocalist backs off the mic -
then her voice is not as reverb-y -
I think this was more a function of recording her voice more directly - rather than from the pa speakers.

I feel the recording was successful because of the close placement of the recorder/mics which recorded both the pa and a lot directly
so perhaps avoiding the very echo-y room acoustics.....

I am obviously not claiming this to be anywhere near great SQ - but it is extraordinary for the circumstances -
please let me know what you think?

Last night - different venue crowded club -


I think this is relatively successful  because I perched the VR-10 on top of the lighting control box which was just above head height -
notice the main pa speakers up just above that level in the picture.

I liked the performance especially the guitar playing -
but also notice the bass great tone and playing......


Same processing of the file as above:

Download 7.47MB

[UnknownVT]

I know this is now an olde thread.... but I thought I'd share something I recorded -
any and all my recordings can only be regarded as casual and unattended -
this was the Teac VR-10 off the internal mics
set on a counter across the room from the band in the corner of the room....

Recorder was behind where this shot was taken:


Original 24bit 48kHz LPCM converted to 44.1kHz MP3 vbr3 MP3Gain added

Download (12.11MB)

Enjoy!

[LikeASong]

Sooooooooooo I bought one of this things (the Tascam, not the VR - so more expensive being the same device - the VR just seemed to be nowhere available in Spain) a few months ago and I am VEERRYYY happy with the results. it's smaller than my smartphone and works a treat. Both with internal mics and with any external mix i've thrown at it (CA14s+UBB, AT943's+SPSB3 bbox, CAFS+UBB, and all of those mics just with plug in power), it works a treat!!! Best piece of gear I've ever bought for 60€.

[UnknownVT]

Sooooooooooo I bought one of this things (the Tascam, not the VR - so more expensive being the same device - the VR just seemed to be nowhere available in Spain) a few months ago and I am VEERRYYY happy with the results. it's smaller than my smartphone and works a treat. Both with internal mics and with any external mix i've thrown at it (CA14s+UBB, AT943's+SPSB3 bbox, CAFS+UBB, and all of those mics just with plug in power), it works a treat!!! Best piece of gear I've ever bought for 60€.

Cool!

Do you mean the Tascam PR-10?


Through your earlier encouragement I am using my Teac VR-10 at almost every gig -
more than my "better" Tascam DR-07 mkII
Just because of the tiny size and portability.

It's an amazing recorder for the size and price.

[LikeASong]

Nope, a Tascam DR-08:




I'm using it in less taper-friendly enviroments than you I'm afraid (aka bigger venues -arenas and even stadiums from far away- with less than optimal placement) but still I'm very happy with the results I'm getting. I've also used it as a backup recorder (the main rig being a pair of mics > bb > Roland R-05) and the recordings ended up being almost as good as the main one, so I can say I am happy, happy, happy with this purchase. I highly encourage everyone to get one, if only for the small price and size. You won't be disappointed!!

[UnknownVT]

Nope, a Tascam DR-08:

I'm using it in less taper-friendly enviroments than you I'm afraid (aka bigger venues -arenas and even stadiums from far away- with less than optimal placement) but still I'm very happy with the results I'm getting. I've also used it as a backup recorder (the main rig being a pair of mics > bb > Roland R-05) and the recordings ended up being almost as good as the main one, so I can say I am happy, happy, happy with this purchase. I highly encourage everyone to get one, if only for the small price and size. You won't be disappointed!!

Excellent - I considered the Teac VR-20

because I thought I liked the versatility of the rabbit ears microphone configuration
(which is BTW why I bought the Tascam DR-07mkII)

But as it was I am glad I got what I got because I have versatility of the mics on the DR-07mkII, and the smaller less fragile portability of the Teac VR-10.

Glad you like the Tascam DR-08

EDIT to ADD -

Only just noticed - the Tascam DR-08 can record at 96kHz vs. 48kHz of the Teac VR-10 or 20.
Is the 96kHz ability a real practical or just a theoretical advantage?

[LikeASong]

The "rabbit mics" has saved some of my recordings where I had to tie the recorder somewhere not stage-oriented. Then I swapped one of the mics so it was facing the PA and... vòila! A good recording. Of course the channel that didn't face the PA sounds a bit muffled, but some post proccessing took care of that no prob.


Regarding your last question......... Well, there's a looooot of discussion regarding 44/48/96 kHz and everyone seems to be right while telling that everyone else is wrong. I am not an audiophile and I convert my recordings to MP3 a lot of times (saving the originals of course) just for convenience - therefore I don't care. I use to record at 44 kHz and 16 bits (sometimes 24), but others will tell you that 48/24 is the way to go, others that 96/16, etc etc. Never ending debate. You can read further in some of this topics:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=94980.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=163073.msg2045130#msg2045130
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157049.msg1981989#msg1981989

(You can find plenty more with the search function. As I said it's a recurrent debate )

[UnknownVT]

Regarding your last question......... Well, there's a looooot of discussion regarding 44/48/96 kHz and everyone seems to be right while telling that everyone else is wrong. I am not an audiophile and I convert my recordings to MP3 a lot of times (saving the originals of course) just for convenience - therefore I don't care. I use to record at 44 kHz and 16 bits (sometimes 24), but others will tell you that 48/24 is the way to go, others that 96/16, etc etc. Never ending debate.

Thanks for the comments - I have recorded where the VR-10 was not in front facing the stage -
from the side (eg: Download 6.28MB)
and once when I found someone had moved my VR-10 and had it sideways to the stage - I tried to hear when that occurred, but could not find it.....
I think it might be because the mics on the VR-10 are omnidirectional? 
But I am (pleasantly) surprised by the sound stage.

I did a lot of (re)searching here on TapersSection before I bought my VR-10 and followed the advice to record at 24/48 -
I also convert them to flac8 (still 24/48) to archive -
but convert to MP3 vb3 (16/44.1) for home listening
(vbr6 for portable mp3 players)

[LikeASong]

1) I would be so PISSED if I found that someone had been messing with my recording gear, the gear I adore and I have fought and paid big money to get.

2) I'm surprised that you can't hear the difference in the recording, even with omnidirectional mics there's a noticeable difference if they're directly facing or not the PA. What distance from the spearkers was the recording at?

[UnknownVT]

1) I would be so PISSED if I found that someone had been messing with my recording gear, the gear I adore and I have fought and paid big money to get.

2) I'm surprised that you can't hear the difference in the recording, even with omnidirectional mics there's a noticeable difference if they're directly facing or not the PA. What distance from the spearkers was the recording at?

I agree I was shocked and miffed when I found my VR-10 sideways -
it was the recording I posted in « Reply #61 on: March 03, 2013, 03:45:06 PM » (Download 7.47MB)
probably not the tune where the VR-10 was moved.

The position was about 4 ft behind where I took this shot:

at just about top of the head height - it was on the top of a light control box set on a wide pillar.

I may well have missed the turn or perhaps I was just lucky that it was moved only at the end....
and that it wasn't stolen.

Of course - I am at gigs mainly to photograph
that's why my recordings are "casual" and why they are unattended
but staying pissed doesn't help any or remedy anything......

Thanks

[LikeASong]

Yeah, I would have been worried for it to get stolen - although it's such a cheap piece of gear that you can easily replace it The sound ain't bad at all, not the best recording made with this recorder, but still very nice for a casual recording.

[UnknownVT]

Yeah, I would have been worried for it to get stolen - although it's such a cheap piece of gear that you can easily replace it The sound ain't bad at all, not the best recording made with this recorder, but still very nice for a casual recording.

Being stolen is always a possibility, for the way I record unattended -
but the rewards far outweigh any anxiety -
and I learnt to just stop worrying about it -
of course, I still glance over at where I left my VR-10......

Anyway another recording from that same venue above from the same position - Saturday
the volume was loud enough, so record level "0" was almost perfect (almost 0 Replay Gain when converting with Flac FrontEnd)

Download (20.93MB)

[UnknownVT]

Recording from Saturday Sept/28/2013 turned out better than my already optimistic expectations
- it was an all acoustic set tribute to Dave Brubeck in a church.


can just see the Teac VR-10 through back gap on the third from left seat.

Download folder

VR-10 24bit 48kHz >Flac8 >vbr3 with resample to 44.1kHz +MP3Gain

[LikeASong]

Holy shit, that sounds nifty 

Amazing Blue Rondo by the way, what an amazing piece it is.


EVERYONE should visit this thread and listen to some of that recordings, it would help a lot to change the general assumption that internal mics are always, invariably, shit.

[UnknownVT]

Holy shit, that sounds nifty 
...
EVERYONE should visit this thread and listen to some of that recordings, it would help a lot to change the general assumption that internal mics are always, invariably, shit.

Thanks LikeASong - for your kind words - they were also better than my expectations.
I did recognize that as a "good" recording - but obviously I am biased, and influenced by the performance.

Just a bit more detail on my recording - it was as one would expect - unattended and casual.
Being that close and somewhat paranoid about distortion - I started with the manual record levels at 0 -
that hardly moved the level meter when I finally checked  (my recordings are unattended because I am there primarily to take photos).
So between songs I tapped up the levels to 4 which I thought still would still be safe....

The results - I split the file where I had changed the recording levels with Audacity -
then used Foobar2000 to apply RG (replay gain) to the two separated parts but as Album Gain (to the safe standard 89db ) -

first part with recording level = 0
Track gain : +18.09 dB
Track peak : 0.209270
Album gain : +18.09 dB
Album peak : 0.209270

That is massively low

The rest of the concert was at level = 4
Track gain : +11.86 dB
Track peak : 0.398529
Album gain : +11.86 dB
Album peak : 0.398529

That is still very low - but kind of acceptable - mainly because it was safe, and I was recording with 24 bit and that would have better/wider dynamic range than the standard 16 bits that I eventually convert to -
Both the sample tracks from the Download folder were from this part of the recording.

It bears repeating what convinced me about the Teac VR-10 was the recording by member cd2go:

Terrific live recording by member cd2go using the VR-10 internals
linked in Reply #13 - from April 02, 2011 in thread New Tascam DR-03 competes with zoom H1
- cd2go's link to Archive.org (so it's free and legal)
http://www.archive.org/details/gpn2011-03-09.teacvr10.cd2go.flac24

My logic on this was it only take one single great recording to prove the worth of any equipment -
any other inferior recording can then be put down to user error, circumstances, environment etc -
as it is not the equipment's fault - since it just proved itself by that one recording -
it would be impossible to make a good recording with truly poor equipment.

So on the evidence of cd2go's recording above -
is proof that the Teac VR-10 on internal mics is more than capable of making great recordings.

I realize there will be some who would say "happy accident" -
but if equipment was truly inadequate -
then even if all the stars aligned -
the recording would still be "inadequate" -
listen to the good recordings cited in this thread in particular that of cd2go
and decide for oneself.

Thanks

[UnknownVT]

Like the proverbial bad penny I keep coming back.....
I am grateful for the advice and encouragement I receive from this forum -
you guys have helped me a lot in learning and understanding.

I made a recording yesterday that is too good not to share -
the performances are just unbelievable :

Downloads -

01 Hotter than That.mp3 (4.95MB)  - like the title says....

05 Stardust.mp3  (9.41MB) - beautiful rendition

07 So is the Day.mp3  (8.75MB) - this is killer - leave it for last.....

vr-10 internal mics 24bit 48kHz > vbr3 + MP3Gain





enjoy!

[UnknownVT]

First time at this theatre (with good acoustics)


Download (8.82MB)

Casual unattended recording - recorder set on theatre seat arm rest one seat away to the left of where I took the above pic.

Teac VR-10 internal mics - 24bit 48kHz L-PCM original > 44.1kHz vbr3 + MP3Gain

[F.O.Bean]

Like the proverbial bad penny I keep coming back.....
I am grateful for the advice and encouragement I receive from this forum -
you guys have helped me a lot in learning and understanding.

I made a recording yesterday that is too good not to share -
the performances are just unbelievable :

Downloads -

01 Hotter than That.mp3 (4.95MB)  - like the title says....

05 Stardust.mp3  (9.41MB) - beautiful rendition

07 So is the Day.mp3  (8.75MB) - this is killer - leave it for last.....

vr-10 internal mics 24bit 48kHz > vbr3 + MP3Gain





enjoy!

This recording is very good. You can tell it was super intimate!

[LikeASong]

I've recorded some more shows with this device lately in venues where I just COULD NOT get any external mics/powering (strong frisking at the gates) and seriously, this sounds f***g awesome for a <$50 thing. I've gotten clearer recordings with this than any of my CA-14 pulls - although conditions (location and PA sound) were marginally better for the Teac/Tascam recordings.

[F.O.Bean]

I also don't see a ring on that HOT blondes finger either! so you're telling me there's a chance

[UnknownVT]

I also don't see a ring on that HOT blondes finger either! so you're telling me there's a chance

BriaSkonberg.com

Bria Skonberg's Blog

[F.O.Bean]

I also don't see a ring on that HOT blondes finger either! so you're telling me there's a chance

BriaSkonberg.com

Bria Skonberg's Blog

Thank you

[UnknownVT]

Here's another recording from the same venue -
same recorder placement -


Download (5.28MB)

Teac VR-10 internal mics 24bit 48KHz original > 44.1kHz vbr3 +MP3Gain

There's a very subtle bit -
during the quieter vocal passages, there's what almost sounds like cellos -
there were no cellos -
it was the Dobro player using the slide on bass strings, creating a cello/drone like sound

[F.O.Bean]

Sounds pretty darn good bro

Ummm, you HAVE TO check out those Sony PCM-D100 internal samples some guy made in Japan His 2 samples of him recording a piano BLEW ME AWAY!!!! I realize its WAY more $$ compared to what you paid for your Teac, but it really amazed me how good those D100 internals sounded in a 110* angle. I have NEVER liked many intermal mic recordings, but the D1000s are in a LEAGUE OF THEIR OWN IMO

Heres a link to those, IMO, AMAZING internal mics recordings from the new D100!!!

http://saburo-ubukata.com/stereo/D100/rd.html

[UnknownVT]

Sounds pretty darn good bro

Heres a link to those, IMO, AMAZING internal mics recordings from the new D100!!!

http://saburo-ubukata.com/stereo/D100/rd.html

yes, they do sound very good.

Just as a "silly" test - I placed my 2 recorders in front of my home sound system
and played an extract from the Pascal Roge CD of the Erik Satie's Gymnopedies -

not my image - off the web re-sized and re-hosted.

VR-10 - Download (1.99MB)

DR-07MkII - Download (2.1MB)

My room is not really silent - so I recorded 5 seconds of silence before and after the piece.

Teac VR-10 and Tascam DR-07 Mk II

both 24bit 48KHz originals > 44.1kHz vbr3 +MP3Gain

EDIT to ADD

Just so there is a reference - this is the excerpt direct CD rip > vbr3 + MP3Gain

Download reference (1.85MB)

[jagraham]

Anyone notice that this recorder looks just like the DR-03 and DR-08, with the exception of the internals? The DR-03 internals were horrible so it seems like this is a similar unit with better mics. The reason I'm bringing this up is to inquire if there's really any difference in the VR-10 and the DR-03. For that matter, is there a difference in the DR-03 and the DR-08? The DR-03 goes for much cheaper than the other two. While I like something newer, as I see it the DR-03 would be just as sufficient and much cheaper than the other two for those not considering using the internals. Any opinions?

[cd2go]

Anyone notice that this recorder looks just like the DR-03 and DR-08, with the exception of the internals? The DR-03 internals were horrible so it seems like this is a similar unit with better mics. The reason I'm bringing this up is to inquire if there's really any difference in the VR-10 and the DR-03. For that matter, is there a difference in the DR-03 and the DR-08? The DR-03 goes for much cheaper than the other two. While I like something newer, as I see it the DR-03 would be just as sufficient and much cheaper than the other two for those not considering using the internals. Any opinions?

AFAIK, the Teac VR-10 and the Tascam PR-10 were the original versions of these tiny recorders, identical save for name. Then the Tascam put out the DR-03 which has the extruding mics at an angle. I assume the capsules are the same as the original version, with just a facelift; All three of these are omnidirectional and have been discontinued. The DR-08 has swiveling cardioid mics and is still available.

The Tascam DR-07 MKII (cardioid) and DR-05 (omni) are the larger, updated versions of their handheld recorders. I have the MKII and it's okay in a pinch; I'm curious how the omni version sounds.

[UnknownVT]

Happy New Year everyone!

Recording from last night -


the sound is much bigger than I expected......

Download (4.83MB)

Teac vr-10, internal mics, 24bit 48kHz original > 44.1k vbr3 + ReplayGain

Recorder position more or less from where I took that shot above -
ie: close.

[F.O.Bean]

WOWZA!!! I am ALWAYS impressed with that cheap lil recorder. Sounds like a great recording with external mics and preamp! Id take that any day of the week!

[UnknownVT]

WOWZA!!! I am ALWAYS impressed with that cheap lil recorder. Sounds like a great recording with external mics and preamp! Id take that any day of the week!

Thank you so much -
I find it hard sometimes to be objective -
especially on a great performance -
Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

[F.O.Bean]

WOWZA!!! I am ALWAYS impressed with that cheap lil recorder. Sounds like a great recording with external mics and preamp! Id take that any day of the week!

Thank you so much -
I find it hard sometimes to be objective -
especially on a great performance -
Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

Hey, I just say it like it is!

[UnknownVT]

Hey, I just say it like it is!

Many thanks.

Try these:


Download (6MB)



Download (6.9MB)
(listen in particular to the piano solo)

Both Teac VR-10 internal mics 24bit 48kHz original > 44.1kHz vbr3 + MP3Gain

[Jonmac]

Here's a recording I did with my Tascam DR-05 and internal mics. The mics are omni, so the stereo separation isn't too wide.

The recorder was lying on a table about 10 feet in front of the band, and I'm quite happy with the result. It shows that internal mics
CAN do a reasonable job.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/70230944/Yankee%20Doodle%20Dandy.mp3

[cd2go]

Thanks for the updates Vincent, sound nice.

Here's a recording I did with my Tascam DR-05 and internal mics. The mics are omni, so the stereo separation isn't too wide.
The recorder was lying on a table about 10 feet in front of the band, and I'm quite happy with the result. It shows that internal mics
CAN do a reasonable job.

Thanks for posting this, I've been waiting to hear a sample from the DR-05. The cymbals have a very nice air and decay to them, not smeary at all! I do have to say, there seems to be a lack of low end which is surprising for omnis--do you think this is from the mic's response or was there a lack of bass from the performance itself (and the mics just replicated that)?

-james

[F.O.Bean]

all of those samples sound good IMO! Crazy that a low priced recorder can handle such detail and tone!

[Jonmac]

[/quote]

Thanks for posting this, I've been waiting to hear a sample from the DR-05. The cymbals have a very nice air and decay to them, not smeary at all! I do have to say, there seems to be a lack of low end which is surprising for omnis--do you think this is from the mic's response or was there a lack of bass from the performance itself (and the mics just replicated that)?

-james
[/quote]

The band is quite light on the Bass, there is a Bass guitarist right at the back of the band, but he isn't very loud.

Jon

[UnknownVT]

OK.... here's an interesting A/B Test -



recording of the exact same section only 1:03 mins - 44.1kHz MP3 vbr3
I tried to equal/level the replay volumes the best I could with MP3Gain to the standard 89db

Download A

Download B

small files only about 1.3MB each.

Please compare (and if necessary level the replay volume)
and let us know which you prefer and why?

[fguidry]

I'm not sure how to compare them, one seems to be a board recording and the other a room mic capture.

Fran

[UnknownVT]

I'm not sure how to compare them, one seems to be a board recording and the other a room mic capture.

Thanks Fran - full marks.

Indeed board recording - probably the most obvious is the lack of audience noise.

But did you have any preference to overall sound?

or notice any obvious defects?

Thanks,

[UnknownVT]

It's bluegrass  -
pretty astonishing stuff -


2 short pieces -

banjo solo Download (1.77MB)

ad-hoc duet Download (2.66MB)

Willie Duncan Download (4.52MB)

vr-10 internal mics 24bit 48kHz originals > 44.1kHz vbr3 + MP3Gain
recorder positioned just to the left of where I took the above photo (ie: close)

Enjoy!

[UnknownVT]

Too good not to share -
from last night -




Another Brick - Download (19.24MB)

Hurt - Download (12.02MB)

vr-10 internal mics 24bit 48kHz original > 44.1k vbr3 (no replay gain)

Please enjoy!

[UnknownVT]

Really BIG sound



Try these -

Download (10.89MB)

Download (8.75MB)

Download (6.87MB)

If you like these enough the whole set is at:

Download Folder (48.13MB Total)

Teac VR-10 internal mics 24bit 48kHz L-PCM original > 44.1kHz vbr3 MP3 + MP3Gain

Position behind where I took this shot about 6ft high next to soundboard.

[UnknownVT]

Look what came in the mail today -



It's a Tascam DR-03 - said by some to be the same as the Teac VR-10 - the specs do look identical -
yet others say the DR-03 internal mics are "crappy".

So I had to to do a side-by-side test -
I put on a CD that I had been using for SQ test for years -
"The Lazarus Heart" by Sting from the CD "...Nothing Like the Sun"

Set this Tascam DR-03 and my well used Teac VR-10 side-by-side in front of my home audio system - set the volume so that it was just loud - but not uncomfortable
set the manual record levels to the same - so that it was moving the meter - but safely under the peak.

Started both recorders and then started the CD a few seconds later so that there would be a few seconds of the "silence" of my room.
and recorded less than 2 mins of the beginning of track.

I had done a similar test back in Post #27
but I re-did the VR-10 so that it was literally recording side-by-side.

Teac VR-10 Test sample Download (2.57MB)

Tascam DR-03 Test sample Download (2.54MB)

I leave it for you to judge for yourselves


Both Internal mics -  24bit 48kHz L-PCM originals > flac8 >44.1kHz vbr3 +MP3gain.

[UnknownVT]

Tascam DR-03 - said by some to be the same as the Teac VR-10 - the specs do look identical -

A live recording from the Tascam DR-03 -
outdoor concert - vocals in front of an 19 piece jazz orchestra -
absolutely fabulous performance that got a standing ovation



- hope the recording does it justice.

06 Fair.mp3 - Download (13.43MB)

Tascam DR-03 24bit 48kHz L-PCM original > 44.1k vbr3 (-4.5db basscut) +MP3Gain

Enjoy!

[UnknownVT]

Music - simply put -

don't suck in this town.

That's why I'm out almost every single night of the week doing photography.

So a little over a year and a half ago I got a pocket digital recorder the Teac VR-10 -
just so that I could capture what I heard.

First a BIG caveat - there is no way I am claiming my recordings are as good as ones captured by professional live recordings -
BUT they are pretty darned good - and not just "for what it is" -
they are much better than I have any right to expect -
as some of the posted recordings in this thread will attest.

As indicated a few months ago I bought a back-up to my Teac VR-10, the Tascam DR-03.

By all accounts - the Tascam DR-03 is likely a re-badged and cosmetically different version of the VR-10
and over 100 recordings later - in my estimate it is basically the same recorder - I can use them interchangeably and be happy with the results.

Now back to the music -

Last night - a Wednesday - local club -
on stage were 2 Grammy winners and a nominee -
and the son of the legendary Blue Note guitarist Grant Green.....


Like I said - the music didn't suck -

2.02 Watermelon Man.mp3 - Download (14.92MB)

2.03 Les Brers in A Minor.mp3 - Download (7.87MB)

Tascam DR-03 24bit 48kHz L-PCM original> 44.1k vbr3

Enjoy!

[UnknownVT]

WARNING - this might not be for everyone, it is experimental/improvisational/avant-garde  -
but if you're into this - it is some truly inspired stuff -



02 Improv 2.mp3 - Download (25.9MB)

This was from Tuesday - 3 nights ago -
it is very unusual as Deantoni Parks normally plays solo -
but with two musicians - Kebbi Williams (sax/flute - 2 times Garmmy winner w. Tedsechi-Trucks Band) and Kevin Scott (bass - ex-Col Bruce Hampton)
he not only used samples off recordings, but actually sampled the live musicians!

Tascam DR-03 - 24-bit 48kHz L-PCM original >44.1k vbr3 +RG

Enjoy!

[rastasean]

Nice photography, Vincent! I like how you're capturing the musicians and a song they are playing.

[UnknownVT]

Nice photography, Vincent! I like how you're capturing the musicians and a song they are playing.

Thank you kindly.

Although the focus (pun) here is on the audio recordings - my prime purpose at gig is photography -
it's a passion verging on obsession - as I go to as many as 3-4 gigs/night - I am hearing a lot of very good music -
as I've said the music don't suck in this town - and I don't stay if the music is no good - much less take photos -
so in that way they are almost always good gigs.

This is the reason why I investigated pocket digital recorders -
with the understanding they were not going to be as good as professional set ups -
but these tiny recorders even on their humble internal mics surprised me (I think astounded may be closer)
and produced sound quality much better than I had any right to expect.

Mostly I place the recorders pretty close - so it is almost always on the lowest record level setting
(only backing away if the band is loud enough to cause clipping/distortion) -
I think it's the closeness that seems to give the recording better "punch"/dynamics.

Thanks,

[LikeASong]

Just to keep this thread alive for the non-believers 

So... My Tascam DR-08 died not long ago (see this thread) And I'm replacing it with a DR-03 I found on the cheap over at eBay ($44 plus shipping... http://www.ebay.com/itm/111487209564 ) ... Let's see how they compare to each other. I've loved the DR08 for its price, size and usability, and if the DR03 is somewhere near its quality/price relation, I'll be more than happy with it.

[UnknownVT]

Just to keep this thread alive for the non-believers 

So... My Tascam DR-08 died not long ago (see this thread) And I'm replacing it with a DR-03 I found on the cheap over at eBay ($44 plus shipping... http://www.ebay.com/itm/111487209564 ) ... Let's see how they compare to each other. I've loved the DR08 for its price, size and usability, and if the DR03 is somewhere near its quality/price relation, I'll be more than happy with it.

Thanks LikeASong.

I use the Tascam DR-03 (which I also got off eBay cheap! ) and the Teac VR-10 more or less interchangeably.

Off side-by-side recordings of CDs played on my home system I think I can just about tell the difference -
BUT I probably would fail an ABX test, and definitely I would not be able to tell the difference in isolation.

As most know gig to gig with different venues and even different sound systems/persons - the difference are far more significant -
and sometimes even fractionally different positions.....

In comparison any difference between the DR-03 and the VR-10 would be insignificant -
so practically speaking they are interchangeable (for me).

Here's that more critical test I did when I first got the DR-03 -
from this thread -
in Reply #103

and a more comprehensive one of all my portable recorders -
in:  Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate  « Reply #12

better acoustic guitar comparison -
in:  Re: Tascam DR-05 - Low price and Rebate  « Reply #31


Here's a little Big Band recording I did last night on the Teac VR-10 placed on a dining table (clothed) - about 10ft from the front of stage (my) right of center -



The Shadow of Your Smile.mp3 - Download (6.67MB)

Teac VR-10 24bit 48kHz WAV original > 44.1k vbr3+RB

I was particularly taken with the harmonies of this arrangement - especially the twin flugelhorns then the twin alto saxes....

[Ekib]

I scrolled through all the 8 pages of this topic , and also the manual . However I can't figure out how you don't get brickwall ( distortion ) when using mic input and external mic's when recording a loud concert ? This recorder doesn't seem to have a -20 DB setting like the Sony PCM M10 does .
I was thinking getting this recorder as a back up , or to record a gig using two different type of mic's . ( I have a PCM M10 already )