Topic: The New Neumann KM-A mics w/ KK caps

[dactylus]

Though if you want the sound of the old KM 84 you will need to get the Gefell M300 

Please tell me more about the sound of the Gefell M300 emulating the old Neumann KM 84.  I have never heard that before your post.

 

[jazzgtrl4]

Though if you want the sound of the old KM 84 you will need to get the Gefell M300 

Please tell me more about the sound of the Gefell M300 emulating the old Neumann KM 84.  I have never heard that before your post.

 

ya me too!

[John Willett]

Though if you want the sound of the old KM 84 you will need to get the Gefell M300 

Please tell me more about the sound of the Gefell M300 emulating the old Neumann KM 84.  I have never heard that before your post.

 

ya me too!

I would not say it's an "emulation".

Gefell is the original company started by Georg Neumann in 1928 - you can read the complete history HERE.

During the war, Neumann moved the complete factory to Gefell to avoid the bombing and the factory got trapped in the east after the war.  Georg Neumann set up Neumann Berlin and the two factories had good contacts until the Berlin Wall went up in the early 1960s.

So Gefell is really the original Neumann.

Gefell is still owned by the Neumann family (Georg Neumann KG own Microtech Gefell as I understand it), Neumann Berlin is now owned by Sennheiser (though the Neumann part is still in Berlin and is made to traditional Neumann standards).

The original Neumann M7 capsule is only made at Gefell.

The Gefell M300, as many people say, is close to the KM84 in sound - much closer than the newer KM184.

I hope this helps.

[jbell]

Any one tried these?

[Chuck]

Though if you want the sound of the old KM 84 you will need to get the Gefell M300 

Please tell me more about the sound of the Gefell M300 emulating the old Neumann KM 84.  I have never heard that before your post.

 

ya me too!

I would not say it's an "emulation".

Gefell is the original company started by Georg Neumann in 1928 - you can read the complete history HERE.

During the war, Neumann moved the complete factory to Gefell to avoid the bombing and the factory got trapped in the east after the war.  Georg Neumann set up Neumann Berlin and the two factories had good contacts until the Berlin Wall went up in the early 1960s.

So Gefell is really the original Neumann.

Gefell is still owned by the Neumann family (Georg Neumann KG own Microtech Gefell as I understand it), Neumann Berlin is now owned by Sennheiser (though the Neumann part is still in Berlin and is made to traditional Neumann standards).

The original Neumann M7 capsule is only made at Gefell.

The Gefell M300, as many people say, is close to the KM84 in sound - much closer than the newer KM184.

I hope this helps.

John:

Great info. Thanks for sharing it here.

Do you know if the KM84's have the metal diffuser in front of the diaphragm, like the M300's do? That's the most unique difference between the M300's and most other mics I'm aware of. I've assumed that was the reason the M300's sound the way they do.

[hi and lo]

Any one tried these?

I'm not aware of anyone that has the newer version, but I've thinking about buying two kk184 capsules and a new LC4 cable to replace my current km140 active setup terminated to PFAs. I don't need Neumann bodies for any reason, so a kk/lc4 setup would come in around $1650. Not bad, IMO, for such a high quality setup and a safer option in terms of getting caps serviced long term. Time will tell if I decide to pull the trigger. Would probably help if another taper has experience with the kk series.

[John Willett]

Do you know if the KM84's have the metal diffuser in front of the diaphragm, like the M300's do? That's the most unique difference between the M300's and most other mics I'm aware of. I've assumed that was the reason the M300's sound the way they do.

The capsule of the M300 is actually very different from the KM184.

The M300 uses a ceramic capsule - as I understand it, this is hot-pressed ceramic with a thin coating of chromium to make the back-plate metallic.  This is then covered with a 1-micron layer of Teflon as an insulator.

The ceramic capsule is unique to Gefell as far as I am aware.

Each manufacture will damp the capsule so that it has the optimum frequency response curve they desire.

Hugh Robjohn's "Brief History of Microtech Gefell" penned in 1999 makes interesting reading - the PDF is here.

[John Willett]

Any one tried these?

I'm not aware of anyone that has the newer version, but I've thinking about buying two kk184 capsules and a new LC4 cable to replace my current km140 active setup terminated to PFAs. I don't need Neumann bodies for any reason, so a kk/lc4 setup would come in around $1650. Not bad, IMO, for such a high quality setup and a safer option in terms of getting caps serviced long term. Time will tell if I decide to pull the trigger. Would probably help if another taper has experience with the kk series.

The KK184 will only connect to a KM-A or KM-D body via the remote cable and not anything else.

So, if you get the KK184 you will definitely need a KM-A or KM-D as well.

I have a pair of the KM-D and a pair each of the KK183 and KK131.

[0vu]

Any one tried these?

I'm not aware of anyone that has the newer version,

I have three of the KM-A with KK133/SBK and KK143 capsules

[hi and lo]

Any one tried these?

I'm not aware of anyone that has the newer version, but I've thinking about buying two kk184 capsules and a new LC4 cable to replace my current km140 active setup terminated to PFAs. I don't need Neumann bodies for any reason, so a kk/lc4 setup would come in around $1650. Not bad, IMO, for such a high quality setup and a safer option in terms of getting caps serviced long term. Time will tell if I decide to pull the trigger. Would probably help if another taper has experience with the kk series.

The KK184 will only connect to a KM-A or KM-D body via the remote cable and not anything else.

So, if you get the KK184 you will definitely need a KM-A or KM-D as well.

I have a pair of the KM-D and a pair each of the KK183 and KK131.

It's certainly possible after modification.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=168746.0

[Since85]

These should sound exactly the same as the corresponding KM 100- or KM 180-series mikes. But the capsules are somewhat less expensive than the "active capsules" of the KM 100 series, because the Schoeps patent has run out, so Neumann (and parent company Sennheiser) are now free to build active accessories without having to put FET circuitry in the capsules any more to work around the patent.

There is no special resemblance to the older fet 80 microphones such as the KM 84--that's a total misimpression there, I'm afraid.

--best regards

Thanks for the info DSatz! Could you briefly explain the FET circuity? And this should have NO effect on the sound of the capsule/noise floor of the microphone, correct?

Thanks

[John Willett]

Any one tried these?

I'm not aware of anyone that has the newer version, but I've thinking about buying two kk184 capsules and a new LC4 cable to replace my current km140 active setup terminated to PFAs. I don't need Neumann bodies for any reason, so a kk/lc4 setup would come in around $1650. Not bad, IMO, for such a high quality setup and a safer option in terms of getting caps serviced long term. Time will tell if I decide to pull the trigger. Would probably help if another taper has experience with the kk series.

The KK184 will only connect to a KM-A or KM-D body via the remote cable and not anything else.

So, if you get the KK184 you will definitely need a KM-A or KM-D as well.

I have a pair of the KM-D and a pair each of the KK183 and KK131.

It's certainly possible after modification.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=168746.0

That refers to the old AK heads, not the new KK ones, which are quite different.

[hi and lo]

It's certainly possible after modification.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=168746.0

That refers to the old AK heads, not the new KK ones, which are quite different.

Specific to this application, the only difference is the location of the FET (in the cable vs. the capsule head).

You can't have a remote cable without first converting the impedance of the signal from the microphone capsule . If the powering requirements of the FET circuit are different (maybe they are, but I kind of doubt it), then it's simply a matter of making the proper measurements to design the proper PFA circuit.

[jbell]

Doesn't seem like anyone is carrying the LC4 cables state side!

Any one tried these?

I'm not aware of anyone that has the newer version, but I've thinking about buying two kk184 capsules and a new LC4 cable to replace my current km140 active setup terminated to PFAs. I don't need Neumann bodies for any reason, so a kk/lc4 setup would come in around $1650. Not bad, IMO, for such a high quality setup and a safer option in terms of getting caps serviced long term. Time will tell if I decide to pull the trigger. Would probably help if another taper has experience with the kk series.

[StuStu]

That's odd. Wonder why?

Doesn't seem like anyone is carrying the LC4 cables state side!

Any one tried these?

I'm not aware of anyone that has the newer version, but I've thinking about buying two kk184 capsules and a new LC4 cable to replace my current km140 active setup terminated to PFAs. I don't need Neumann bodies for any reason, so a kk/lc4 setup would come in around $1650. Not bad, IMO, for such a high quality setup and a safer option in terms of getting caps serviced long term. Time will tell if I decide to pull the trigger. Would probably help if another taper has experience with the kk series.