Topic: Apogee "BIG BEN" innitial thoughts

[Nick's Picks]

Hi all...

I've been fortunate enough to acquire a loaner BIG BEN....which is a master digital clock "re-synchronizer", for lack of better words.
This rack mounted piece of studio hardware fits right at home nestled between the digital output of my Toshiba 3960 (which I can't get to pass anything greater than 24/48 fwiw), and the digital input of my Sony 3000es.

I have to say that i'm completely impressed with it.  When I first introduced it to my system, we were listening to a new CD of Danna Krull or something like that.  Elvis Costello's wife...whatever her name is.

I was listening to the recording of the music more than the music itself.  Pretty impressed w/this jazzy disc.  Then I turned on Big Ben, and it sounded like an entirely different CD !
Very robust.  Lots of texture and weight was added.  Sonic images were more real.  Soundstage was even bigger.  Depth was even deeper.  It took all the good things in this recording and made them better.

Is it worth the $1500 ? 
Considering the fact that it took a $50 DVDP and made it sound like a $2500 one, i'd say yes.

[Jason B]

How can you "hear" a master clock? I just don't get it. I have used these in the studio everytime I have tracked and they are there for a simple reason, to lock all digital devices to a single master clock. I can understand wanting to run a master clock with a lot of digi signal present in a playback or HT system, but I don't see how there could be any audible differences with only two pieces of digital gear (really only one outputting a digital signal) in the chain?

[Nick's Picks]

perhaps its just that dramatic of an improvement on the PCM output of my DVP.
maybe its all in my head, and if so...then its a dramatic example of whatever kind of psycho-fooler that is.

[Tim]

would a master clock have any affect on jitter? Is that the difference you are hearing?

[Nick in Edinboro]

Yes, on the Big Ben site they mention how it would reduce / correct the stream of the transport -- making a poor signal much better.

Does that have a huge effect on the sound?  I have no frickin' clue

Adaptive Loop Filtering (ALF) maximizes Big Ben's clocking ability with an intelligent low pass filter. Because the C777 has made all incoming signals into data (1's and 0's) the unit is able to dynamically compensate for excessive jitter and even improve already acceptable clock signals to levels unattainable until now. No matter what the input looks like, ALF can adapt and overcome all obstacles to create a stable, reliable, low jitter clock source.

Additionally, SureLock ensures that even if the unit encounters the ultimate disturbance in clocking, a dropped signal, it will compensate by remaining locked on the last relevant frequency sent by the delinquent device. When the signal resumes, Big Ben will gradually, and smoothly re-synchronize without interruption. The unit also provides the option for real-time digital format conversion.

[Wiggler]

Related review of Big Ben.

http://www.stereotimes.com/comm042804.shtm

[Nick's Picks]

I know it reduces jitter and improves the signal over that of a cheap transport.  And I also know that you can certainly hear differences in audio due to the presence....or absence of...jitter.

what I can't figure out is what the hell you'd do with this in the studio.

I can honestly say that I hear a big difference.
                                                           
                                                             coax to sony 3000es digital input
                                                          /
Toshiba 3960 coax output > coax splitter
                                                         \
                                                            coax to Big ben > Sony 3000es

This allows me to do A-B switching via different sources of input on the reciever.
Yes, i'm using 3 different coax cables ranging from a very nice apogee, to RS's top of the line and a Hosa 1m cheapo.
There may be a difference in there, but i'm pretty certain its Big Ben that i'm hearing.

[Nick in Edinboro]

If it's not a pain, swap the cables around too and that would help somewhat rule out the cables to some effect.

[leegeddy]

what I can't figure out is what the hell you'd do with this in the studio.

nick;

word clocks in general are used to sync all connected digital devices to a single clock for ease of editing.

marc

[Jason B]

what I can't figure out is what the hell you'd do with this in the studio.

nick;

word clocks in general are used to sync all connected digital devices to a single clock for ease of editing.

marc

and to reduce jitter. When you have 5 to 10 pieces of digital gear, they all need to be locked to a master clock as opposed to them all running willy-nilly off their internal's. Nothing would lock up...

[leegeddy]

what I can't figure out is what the hell you'd do with this in the studio.

nick;

word clocks in general are used to sync all connected digital devices to a single clock for ease of editing.

marc

and to reduce jitter. When you have 5 to 10 pieces of digital gear, they all need to be locked to a master clock as opposed to them all running willy-nilly off their internal's. Nothing would lock up...

i do concur.

marc

[Nick's Picks]

what kinds of various digital devices would one be using at one time in the studio?
give me a real-world example of studio use of this?

thanks all.
interesting stuff.

[Jason B]

If you were tracking into Pro Tools as well as several ADAT's or DA-88's, every unit would need to be locked to a master clock. You never track without slaving every device to a single, master clock.

[jpschust]

btw fwiw, that big ben was not 1500, it was more like 1k.   nice review, and im excited to hear more of your thoughts after some more extended listening sessions.

[Nick's Picks]

1k new?
well shit, send me the link please.


I"ve seen them for that much used.

i'm waiting for a (used) DIP upsampler to come up for sale so that I can benchmark them.
there is a non-upsampling model, the DIP 2496, available on agon right now for $125 (someone should snag this for shits and giggles), ...which would be a more even comparrison as the Apogee doesnt' upsample or convert the signal at all.  I"m contemplating it because its such a deal.  It takes up to 24/96 input...would work well in front of the Sony.

But...I want the upsampling feature. 
I know there is no need for that w/the Big Ben, as it was not intended to be used in any way that would benefit from such digital processing, but if it did....it would be even more amazing.

[BobW]

I haven't met anyone who can hear digital cables and but a handful of people who can demonstrate that they can hear analog ones.
FWIW, I'm very skeptical on this issue.  I know a guy who runs short SPDIF patches on pro SBDs with a twisted pair.  (which is ~75 Ω, but unshielded)

I'd love to see it quantified with lost bits, or recovery algorithms being engaged on hardware, or something else quantifiable.

Interesting that you hear a clock.  I'd love to see an analyser on the two bitstreams to see  "what's happening."

[Nick's Picks]

trust me, anyone could hear the Big Ben in action.  it wasn't subtle.

speaking of...
I just got a Monarchy Audio DIP upsampler....
Yowza !!  Could very well be the best $200 I've ever spent on my stereo.  I have not done any A/B ing with it yet, but when I put it in the mix and starting listening to stuff that has been in current rotation, it added A LOT to the presentation.  Smoooooth sounding, yet very punchy at the same time.  More bass information.  better depth.  I really like it.