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Gear / Technical Help => Remote Power => Topic started by: coloartist on September 17, 2012, 01:23:36 PM
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I was recording set #2 at Mule on Friday. My battery light started flashing on my 788t. I touched my Tekkeon and it was hot. I unplugged the Tekkeon battery cable and plugged it back in. The 788t battery light became stable. After that set I put a new battery in the 788t and ran without the Tekkeon. I examined the battery and the main battery was melted.
I emailed Tekkeon and they said they would replace it but he wanted my specs from my 788t. I told him I ran it at 12v. Here is what he said:
I noticed the specs you provided says the audio recorder can be powered externally from 10-18V and a minimum of 4A. You may want to consider possibly using a higher voltage than 12V to lower the amp draw since it seems the device uses a minimum of 4A. The lower the voltage, the higher amps generally are required and if you use a higher voltage, lower amps are required. The more amps used, the hotter the components get.
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2d736b3127ccef1767c423e9800000030O09YasmzNqD28-Ag/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2d736b3127ccef177cfc55e9200000030O09YasmzNqD28-Ag/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/)
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Damn! That must have been a blistering Mule set!
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Ouch! Thanks for sharing the info. Is Tekkeon replacing the battery outside of warranty for you or was it still under time limit?
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I just bought it at the end of February.
I also recorded a show on Saturday with my other set of Tekkeon's with no issues.
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Just checked battery university. It says that the more discharged a battery gets, the higher the internal resistance. It also suggests that if there's one weak cell in a pack, the internal resistance in that cell can be limiting. Might provide some keys to what happened to your tekkeon. (e.g. You mentioned recording another show with the tekkeons...where the batteries at or near being depleted?)
Nevertheless, throughout the battery university site, it discusses issues occurring when batteries are under heavy load. I'm wondering if you need to get a battery with a higher amp rating than the Tekkeon to power your 788.
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I recorded the other show with another set of Tekkeons. Both sets were fully charged when I started the night. The set that had the melting issue was more then half full on charge when the melting happened. I know many people that use the Tekkeons for the 788t. I have used them for 6 months with no issues. I haven't been taping as much as usual, though.
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I hear ya man. Just runing thru some possibilities for what happened.
Do your tekkeons have separate cables? Could it be possible you have a shorted cable? a couple of overheating events i've had in the past were cable related.
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Damn! That must have been a blistering Mule set!
that comment reminded me of the 10/11/02 Mule show at the Beacon where they were so good they brought the roof down
(heavy rain caused a leak and part of the ceiling fell down in the upper balcony)
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I hear ya man. Just runing thru some possibilities for what happened.
Do your tekkeons have separate cables? Could it be possible you have a shorted cable? a couple of overheating events i've had in the past were cable related.
I only have one cable. I used it the next night with my other battery set. I thought the same thing and was wondering if my other battery would melt the next night, but it was all good.
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All the pics I've seen of the Tekkeon with the extended battery pack have the extend-a-pack on the bottom. As you have yours configured how do you set the voltage and determine the remaining charge with the display/voltage selector covered?
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I assumed the front meters worked for both. You have to connect them that way because the connectors are on that side.
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I was curious, don't have a 3450i or the extend-a-pack, just a 3450. I didn't realize there was a front meter option. I figured since Tekkeon showed the batt on top of the extend-a-pack that was the only way to run it. Looking at the brackets on the accessory page I see either unit could go in either position. Whatever the cause I hope Chris and the folks at Tekkeon replace it even if it is out of warranty. Bottom line is batteries shouldn't melt/explode/catch fire.
http://www.tekkeon.com/productcart/pc/catalog/mp3450i_r2_bundle_1773_detail.jpg
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If the top and bottom batteries were switched from the way pictured by tekkeon could that have caused your burn out melting the case?
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The batteries only connect on the one side, but you can stack either one on top I believe
I re-read your other question flipp, and I had only answered half of it.
I always put the main unit on top because I would assume that one controls the added batteries voltage.
The voltage on the model that melted is set with jumpers on the main unit. You don't have to plug the power cord in and pick the voltage. A far superior system then my other pair.
Again I assume the unit with the jumpers controls the other batteries voltage.
If it has to be stacked a certain way, Tekkeon should mention that. It would be a huge design flaw. Also Chris @ Tekkeon didn't mention that is was stacked wrong in the pictures.
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DAMN Bro, luckily the 788t wasnt damaged :( I ran 7.2v RC Batts w/ my old 722 and at Phish Hampton 2009 3 night run, the 3rd night they searched my bag and roughed it up pretty good. I went to plug in my battery and get ready for the show and mine started melting as well :( I went to the bathroom and set it in there in case it kept melting. I didnt want to leave it in the OTS to ruin someone elses gear :(
Luckily, my buddy Mark had an extra 7xx battery and I ran the internal one just fine. But after that, I swore off external batteries unless at a festival :)
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4amps huh... I just checked mine and it registers as four amps is the max draw for the battery, I actually thought it would be less than that. My i unit has gotten hot before with an expansion bay (using it with my 722), so I wonder if it is a combination of the excessive draw related to your 788 and the heat dissipation with having it in a sequestered bag.
Dunno, but that sucks eitherway.
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Funny thing is that my bag was wide open and it was maybe 45-55 degrees out. We were outside in Vail, CO. (well in the pavillion of The Gerald Ford Ampitheatre)
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Bottom line is batteries shouldn't melt/explode/catch fire.
i'm not saying its the case here, but if the battery is used incorrectly, that's neither the battery or the manufacturers fault. Just sayin that theres some operator responsibility involved.
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Funny thing is that my bag was wide open and it was maybe 45-55 degrees out. We were outside in Vail, CO. (well in the pavillion of The Gerald Ford Ampitheatre)
dunno, I bring nothing to the table then. You might ask SD if increasing voltage will reduce draw, but I don't think it does for the older 7xx units.
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Definitely a current issue draw issue here and an overheating of the DC-DC converter portion of the battery - you may want to set the battery voltage as high as the 788 can take as it should reduce the over all current required (if it is a DC-DC converter - which I know the other 7xx series use).
Some batteries will shutdown if the current draw is too high - found this out the hard way couldn't run my hs-p82 off one of my electrovaya batterys.
It's unfortunate the Tekkeon doesn't have this function but Tonedeaf is probably right in the sense that proabably a cell was failing or the overall life time of the battery hit a certain point.
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Also note that the harder you drive your cells the less time they will last. Especially true with SLA's and Poly-LiOn - solution is to run many cells in parallel.
I am currently running my hs-p82 off a 12Ah 12V SLA due to the problem I ran into but someday I will migrate to a LiOn solution (either my own using batteryspace parts, a battery space built one, or the one Louie/Stu are running).
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Perhaps NP1 type external batteries would make a better choice for powering 788t's than tekkeon.
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Power:
Power supply (batteries): operating cell, removable 7.2 V (nominal) Sony L-type Li-ion, operational from 6.5–8.5 V, time code battery, internal 3.6 Li–ion
Power supply (external): 10–18 V, 1000 mA minimum, via locking 4-pin Hirose connector, use Hirose #HR10-7P-4P (DigiKey# HR100-ND) for locking mating DC connector; pin-1 (-), pin-4 (+).
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XL-NPH Adapter for NP-Type Batteries (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/xlnph/)
Power Adaptor
NP-type battery cup with 24-inch cable terminated in a Hirose 4-pin locking DC connector (HR10-7P-4P) at the equipment end. For use with Sound Devices MixPre (s/n >0506), 302, 442 (sn >0303), and 7-Series recorders.
Note: Not for use with Sony L or M mount rechargeable batteries which mount directly on 7-Series recorders.
Key Features
Accepts NP-type batteries
24-inch cord to Hirose 4-pin connector for direct mixer or recorder interconnection
(http://www.sounddevices.com/images/products/xlnph-lg.jpg)
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Going to have to pick one of those up. I never have seen that.
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Also note that the harder you drive your cells the less time they will last. Especially true with SLA's and Poly-LiOn - solution is to run many cells in parallel.
I am currently running my hs-p82 off a 12Ah 12V SLA due to the problem I ran into but someday I will migrate to a LiOn solution (either my own using batteryspace parts, a battery space built one, or the one Louie/Stu are running).
Richard...this is probably a topic for another thread, but your point is well taken. As time has progressed we've come to expect lighter batteries with better power density, but our gear is also more power hungry. Seems there might be a tipping point there somewhere that colorartist and other 788 owners (and other high current draw gear) may need to be cognizant of.
Personally, I still prefer SLAs because of their low cost, but moreso because I like having oodles of spare power on-hand. In addition, pig-tailing my power cables allows for parallel battery connections. I had originally done this to maximize my run-times between battery changes, but your comment points out that the pigtails might also have helped to address potential battery loading issues.
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I am a little confused by that SD battery sled.
(http://www.sounddevices.com/images/products/xlnph-lg.jpg)
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/xlnph/ (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/xlnph/)
NP-type battery cup with 24-inch cable terminated in a Hirose 4-pin locking DC connector (HR10-7P-4P) at the equipment end. For use with Sound Devices MixPre (s/n >0506), 302, 442 (sn >0303), and 7-Series recorders.
Note: Not for use with Sony L or M mount rechargeable batteries which mount directly on 7-Series recorders.
I thought NP batteries were L series batteries? When you look at batteries on the B and H website the batteries all say NP-xxx L-series battery.
They also mount directly on the 7-series recorders.
I just don't want to end up with a battery sled that doesn't work.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=L-Series&ci=4949&N=4267396449 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=L-Series&ci=4949&N=4267396449)
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I am a little confused by that SD battery sled.
(http://www.sounddevices.com/images/products/xlnph-lg.jpg)
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/xlnph/ (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/xlnph/)
NP-type battery cup with 24-inch cable terminated in a Hirose 4-pin locking DC connector (HR10-7P-4P) at the equipment end. For use with Sound Devices MixPre (s/n >0506), 302, 442 (sn >0303), and 7-Series recorders.
Note: Not for use with Sony L or M mount rechargeable batteries which mount directly on 7-Series recorders.
I thought NP batteries were L series batteries? When you look at batteries on the B and H website the batteries all say NP-xxx L-series battery.
They also mount directly on the 7-series recorders.
I just don't want to end up with a battery sled that doesn't work.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=L-Series&ci=4949&N=4267396449 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=L-Series&ci=4949&N=4267396449)
I think that sled uses np-1 style batteries. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=np-1+style+battery&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search= (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=np-1+style+battery&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=)
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Oh. bummer. It seems like it would be the perfect solution to just reuse your your onboard batteries for externals. Then you wouldn't need two types of batteries.
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NP1 type batteries are pretty much a universal standard, hence my initial suggestion that they could make a better external powering option than tekkeon's. I personally use NP1-SB's or a tekkeon MP3450 for my MixPre-D but considering your meltdown you may want to consider switching over to NP1 style batteries for your 788t.
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I am just going to run at 14v for now. I have 2 pairs and an extra battery to add to the mix too. I think it was a bad battery.
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NP-1 batteries have been around for over 20 years at least - one of the first portable dat's used them (Sony PCM-2000)
Also the hhb portadat used them and my hs-p82 can use them (but due to there size on li- on np-1's only last upto 1 hr 30 min or so)
The are lion and NnMhd versions ( I bet the originals where nicad)
Also there are AA battery sleds in NP-1
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Brand new Tekkeon arrived today. Used my other set twice last weekend with no issues at 14v.
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Great news best of luck with the replacement. Stay away from this girl an be cautious of PA summers ; )
(http://www.lukesurl.com/comics/2010-03-15-melting.png) (http://www.lukesurl.com/archives/1258)
(http://www.wendyswizardofoz.com/bish19.gif)
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Has anyone seen this?
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10744.html
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Has anyone seen this?
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml10/10744.html
It's been discussed here on ts in the past but it never hurts to remind folks that some of these batts had problems.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=107694.msg1783208#msg1783208
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I am almost positive I figured out the problem with my Tekkeon. The cable I had made had a short in it. I figured that out by slightly melting another Tekkeon. It doesn't look near as bad as the other, but doesn't work with the cable I had redone . My other Tekkeon set works great with the new cable.
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I am almost positive I figured out the problem with my Tekkeon. The cable I had made had a short in it. I figured that out by slightly melting another Tekkeon. It doesn't look near as bad as the other, but doesn't work with the cable I had redone . My other Tekkeon set works great with the new cable.
Did you make the cable using the stock cable that came with the unit? I just found out the stock cable I was using (re-terminated to a 4-pin mini xlr) had a bad solder joint on one of the grounds. Made a new cable and the problem is solved.
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I don't know. Ted made it. definitely not the stock cable.
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I had this happen with sax cables a few months ago battery didn't burn like that but got hot.
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I had this happen with sax cables a few months ago battery didn't burn like that but got hot.
yeah mine got super hot once in about that spot, I figured out it was a short as well. I could gently push it in one direction to prevent it from happening. I was using a right angle cable and I'm not sure that was helping maintain appropriate contact.
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It was working on and off. Then I saw it coming apart, but it was too late unfortunately. I don't know what to tell Tekkeon this time. :(
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Use AC? I just don't get the battery love here. Haven't really ran on them in 5 years.
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Use AC? I just don't get the battery love here. Haven't really ran on them in 5 years.
Some of us do not have access to AC power. Of the five venues I record in most only one has AC power available and the location of the power point is less than ideal and using an extension cord is not possible. Thus my "love" of battery power.
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Use AC? I just don't get the battery love here. Haven't really ran on them in 5 years.
LOL. I would love to get an AC plug and free wifi. These things happen rarely.