Topic: Brickwalled audio using the audio-in jack on my new cam

[Tony B]

Picked up a Canon Optura 50, and tried to tape a concert here a few days ago (Magnolia Elec Co.), and the results were less than stunning. My setup includes the following:

Canon Optura 50
KM184's
V3

I ran my mics into my preamp, then to the Optura out of the V3's XLR outs (Two XLRs>single 1/8" mini stereo plug), as well as my JB3 (via the digital optical line). The audio on my recorder turned out great, but the audio on the camera was brickwalled...distorted and unlistenable.

Now, I used the manual audio level option on the camera, as well as the Mic Attenuater option, and during recording, the audio levels on the camera seemed ok. Upon playback, though...ugh.

So. Any ideas on how to remedy this situation? Could this be an issue where the gain on the V3 was too high for the cam's input? Anyone ever connect their full audio setup to a camera with good results?

Thank ya
TB

EDIT: Upon further reflection, do you think that a set of attenuators in the chain to the cam would do the trick? I'm thinking that the db levels I feed to the JB3 are perhaps too high for the cam's input. Rambling. Sorry.

[Kyle]

yea, it sounds like you blew the mic pres in the camera away

I wonder if anyone could do an mic-input stage mod for you

attenuators should work too

[Tony B]

yea, it sounds like you blew the mic pres in the camera away

I wonder if anyone could do an mic-input stage mod for you

attenuators should work too

Yep. I think that's the deal. Rather than digging into the guts of the cam, though, I think I might just try some attenuators, or even a straight -20db cable. Damn. More money to spend.

Enjoying the P1 still?

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Picked up a Canon Optura 50, and tried to tape a concert here a few days ago (Magnolia Elec Co.), and the results were less than stunning. My setup includes the following:

Canon Optura 50
KM184's
V3

I ran my mics into my preamp, then to the Optura out of the V3's XLR outs (Two XLRs>single 1/8" mini stereo plug), as well as my JB3 (via the digital optical line). The audio on my recorder turned out great, but the audio on the camera was brickwalled...distorted and unlistenable.

Now, I used the manual audio level option on the camera, as well as the Mic Attenuater option, and during recording, the audio levels on the camera seemed ok. Upon playback, though...ugh.

So. Any ideas on how to remedy this situation? Could this be an issue where the gain on the V3 was too high for the cam's input? Anyone ever connect their full audio setup to a camera with good results?

Thank ya
TB

EDIT: Upon further reflection, do you think that a set of attenuators in the chain to the cam would do the trick? I'm thinking that the db levels I feed to the JB3 are perhaps too high for the cam's input. Rambling. Sorry.

You could probably avoid spending money on att cables by using the jb3's headphone out. When I tape/film a show I'll use the headphone out of my M1 and set the volume level at 8-10 (out of 30). All you need to do to find out which volume level you need to use is setup at home and play something with the jb3, use the headphone out > mic input of the cam and record and see what level is low enough. I could probab;y get away with keeping the volume at 12 but I knock it down a few just to be safe. Basically your headphone out is acting as an active gain or adjustable attenuator.

Hope this helps... 

[Tony B]

Picked up a Canon Optura 50, and tried to tape a concert here a few days ago (Magnolia Elec Co.), and the results were less than stunning. My setup includes the following:

Canon Optura 50
KM184's
V3

I ran my mics into my preamp, then to the Optura out of the V3's XLR outs (Two XLRs>single 1/8" mini stereo plug), as well as my JB3 (via the digital optical line). The audio on my recorder turned out great, but the audio on the camera was brickwalled...distorted and unlistenable.

Now, I used the manual audio level option on the camera, as well as the Mic Attenuater option, and during recording, the audio levels on the camera seemed ok. Upon playback, though...ugh.

So. Any ideas on how to remedy this situation? Could this be an issue where the gain on the V3 was too high for the cam's input? Anyone ever connect their full audio setup to a camera with good results?

Thank ya
TB

EDIT: Upon further reflection, do you think that a set of attenuators in the chain to the cam would do the trick? I'm thinking that the db levels I feed to the JB3 are perhaps too high for the cam's input. Rambling. Sorry.

You could probably avoid spending money on att cables by using the jb3's headphone out. When I tape/film a show I'll use the headphone out of my M1 and set the volume level at 8-10 (out of 30). All you need to do to find out which volume level you need to use is setup at home and play something with the jb3, use the headphone out > mic input of the cam and record and see what level is low enough. I could probab;y get away with keeping the volume at 12 but I knock it down a few just to be safe. Basically your headphone out is acting as an active gain or adjustable attenuator.

Hope this helps... 

Wow. I think you just saved me some dough. Obviously, there are T's in your future.

THANK YOU. I'll try this tonight.

 

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Picked up a Canon Optura 50, and tried to tape a concert here a few days ago (Magnolia Elec Co.), and the results were less than stunning. My setup includes the following:

Canon Optura 50
KM184's
V3

I ran my mics into my preamp, then to the Optura out of the V3's XLR outs (Two XLRs>single 1/8" mini stereo plug), as well as my JB3 (via the digital optical line). The audio on my recorder turned out great, but the audio on the camera was brickwalled...distorted and unlistenable.

Now, I used the manual audio level option on the camera, as well as the Mic Attenuater option, and during recording, the audio levels on the camera seemed ok. Upon playback, though...ugh.

So. Any ideas on how to remedy this situation? Could this be an issue where the gain on the V3 was too high for the cam's input? Anyone ever connect their full audio setup to a camera with good results?

Thank ya
TB

EDIT: Upon further reflection, do you think that a set of attenuators in the chain to the cam would do the trick? I'm thinking that the db levels I feed to the JB3 are perhaps too high for the cam's input. Rambling. Sorry.

You could probably avoid spending money on att cables by using the jb3's headphone out. When I tape/film a show I'll use the headphone out of my M1 and set the volume level at 8-10 (out of 30). All you need to do to find out which volume level you need to use is setup at home and play something with the jb3, use the headphone out > mic input of the cam and record and see what level is low enough. I could probab;y get away with keeping the volume at 12 but I knock it down a few just to be safe. Basically your headphone out is acting as an active gain or adjustable attenuator.

Hope this helps... 

Wow. I think you just saved me some dough. Obviously, there are T's in your future.

THANK YOU. I'll try this tonight.

 

It's worked great for me (except the one time I forgot to plug the 1/8th cord into my deck)  . I know it's worked for friends with various cameras too. If you have any recorder with a headphone out it's the easiest and cheapest way to regulate the aud signal to a camera imo.

I hope it works out good for you. 

Give us an update if you film something... 

[bluegrass_brad]

You could also build that little DIY attenuator that someone posted the plans to a few days ago.  Small and cheap to build with variable control.
http://ca.geocities.com/dkleined@rogers.com/audio/PassiveAttenuatorBox.htm.
Im gonna build one just for the hell of it, Maybe add one of the led meter kits in it as well.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

You could also build that little DIY attenuator that someone posted the plans to a few days ago.  Small and cheap to build with variable control.
http://ca.geocities.com/dkleined@rogers.com/audio/PassiveAttenuatorBox.htm.
Im gonna build one just for the hell of it, Maybe add one of the led meter kits in it as well.

1 k up to ~21 dB

That's most likely still too hot and would brickwall a mic input of a camera. 

Looks like a nifty/handy contraption though.
 

[bluegrass_brad]

Just change the values of R2 until you have the attenuation you need.  being able to pad the signal 21db seems like it should be enough.  Thats alot of attenuation. Unless I'm reading that wrong.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Just change the values of R2 until you have the attenuation you need.  being able to pad the signal 21db seems like it should be enough.  Thats alot of attenuation. Unless I'm reading that wrong.

It might be enough, I'd just rather stick with a constant. I know if my levels are set, that the headphone out is always going to send out the same signal strength reguardless...

[bluegrass_brad]

Just change the values of R2 until you have the attenuation you need.  being able to pad the signal 21db seems like it should be enough.  Thats alot of attenuation. Unless I'm reading that wrong.

It might be enough, I'd just rather stick with a constant. I know if my levels are set, that the headphone out is always going to send out the same signal strength reguardless...

I can see that, as long as the headphone volume is always set the same.  The only problem I can see with it is that your adding another gain stage (and a noisy one).  So you have the original gainstage (V3) + JB3 headphone amp gainstage (noisy) + camera mic preamp gainstage (noisy).  The JB3's have a 1/8 line output as well as the headphone.  I wonder if that would work any better?

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Just change the values of R2 until you have the attenuation you need.  being able to pad the signal 21db seems like it should be enough.  Thats alot of attenuation. Unless I'm reading that wrong.

It might be enough, I'd just rather stick with a constant. I know if my levels are set, that the headphone out is always going to send out the same signal strength reguardless...

I can see that, as long as the headphone volume is always set the same.  The only problem I can see with it is that your adding another gain stage (and a noisy one).  So you have the original gainstage (V3) + JB3 headphone amp gainstage (noisy) + camera mic preamp gainstage (noisy).  The JB3's have a 1/8 line output as well as the headphone.  I wonder if that would work any better?

I'll persoanlly deal with the minimal inherent noise, afterall it's video as opposed to running an additional piece of gear. It would be nice to make one with led's that shows the threshold of the cameras input, but that's a whole project in itself. I'd venture to guess you'd have more inherent noise from such a device when compared to a headphone output.

[bluegrass_brad]

Yeah, the device in the link is passive, so it shouldnt add any noise.  But add the powered LED's and it's probably another ball game entirely.  I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous, but not enough to know shit .  +T on your avi.  When I was in college I loved coming home from class, firing one up and watching ol' Bob Ross. "Now let's put a happy little cloud right over here....just get a little bit of titanium white on your knife.  Ahhh that's it.  Happy little clouds"  Listening to him talk was so relaxing, next thing you know...naptime! Wish he hadnt passed away

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Yeah, the device in the link is passive, so it shouldnt add any noise.  But add the powered LED's and it's probably another ball game entirely.  I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous, but not enough to know shit .  +T on your avi.  When I was in college I loved coming home from class, firing one up and watching ol' Bob Ross. "Now let's put a happy little cloud right over here....just get a little bit of titanium white on your knife.  Ahhh that's it.  Happy little clouds"  Listening to him talk was so relaxing, next thing you know...naptime! Wish he hadnt passed away

good old Bob has risen from the grave and exists on MySpace.com...

Happy +T's to you too...

[Tony B]

Just change the values of R2 until you have the attenuation you need.  being able to pad the signal 21db seems like it should be enough.  Thats alot of attenuation. Unless I'm reading that wrong.

It might be enough, I'd just rather stick with a constant. I know if my levels are set, that the headphone out is always going to send out the same signal strength reguardless...

I can see that, as long as the headphone volume is always set the same.  The only problem I can see with it is that your adding another gain stage (and a noisy one).  So you have the original gainstage (V3) + JB3 headphone amp gainstage (noisy) + camera mic preamp gainstage (noisy).  The JB3's have a 1/8 line output as well as the headphone.  I wonder if that would work any better?

I'll persoanlly deal with the minimal inherent noise, afterall it's video as opposed to running an additional piece of gear. It would be nice to make one with led's that shows the threshold of the cameras input, but that's a whole project in itself. I'd venture to guess you'd have more inherent noise from such a device when compared to a headphone output.

This is my feeling as well. Anything is better, imo, than the built-in mic of the cam, and seeing as how I'm just starting out on this path, I think this might be the way to go for now. Plus, I already have the gear I need! 

I'll definitely let you guys know how this works.