Topic: so..the mrs. wants a new digi camera for x-mass.....

[ellaguru]

....& ive got no idea what im looking for   

budget : $1000 or so....can go a couple hundred higher
most certainly digital and she tends to do alot of photography while im busy manning the recording gear @ shows.
all the #'s associated with lens descriptions mean nothing to me...i dont understand them at all, so any guidance would be mucho appreciated !!

thanks again!

chris

[spreetaper]

are u thinking DSLR or a P&S?

and you want to be able to do concert photography and general stuff as well ?

[ellaguru]

are u thinking DSLR or a P&S?

and you want to be able to do concert photography and general stuff as well ?

DSLR for sure...
yep..all kinds of photography but needs to be descent in low light situations...

chris

[spreetaper]

well first thing to decide is Canon or Nikon

 I prefer Canon but thats just me


your standard basic low light lense is the 50mm F1.8 (approx $50) - best value low light lense there is
so basically the lense is 50mm (fixed lense with no zoom) and the F stop is 1.8
you can go down to 1.2 and 1.4 but they are generally very pricey
you need to be relatively close to the stage with this lense though

another good lense for concert shooting from the tapers section at most shows is the
85mm f1.8 (approx $300) - also a fixed lense but you can be a little further back from the stage to FOB and your going to get good results.. this is also an excellent general use lense for the price range

as for the camera body - my advice is to just get that
dont buy a kit.. as the lense that comes with the kit is usually a waste of time

so basically your gonna be spending about 400-550 for the body
I run the Rebel XT which is 399 (8 megapixel) and I am very happy with it

i get all my gear at B&H here in NYC..
i can give you links for all the stuff if you want too..

one other thing you can do is go on a site like flickr.com and you can search for the camera and the lense and see picturs that people have taken with those setups...

[stirinthesauce]

are u thinking DSLR or a P&S?

and you want to be able to do concert photography and general stuff as well ?

DSLR for sure...
yep..all kinds of photography but needs to be descent in low light situations...

chris

kind of redundant as I tyed this before spreetaper did but here it is.

canon or nikon.  You decide.  I like canon, probably because I shoot with it both film and digital.

canon route, the rebel xti is a very nice one.  More on the pro side, the 40d is around that range (body only).  The xti will be a little cheaper.  As for lens, f2.8 is a must for a zoom lens for low light.  Fixed lens, f1.8 or better (lower).

My recs for around 1kish, a canon rebel xti (body only) and a sigma 24-70 ex dg f2.8.  The lens is a nice one (I own it, among others) but is half the price of the comparable f2.8 canon lens of same focal length.  Of course, if you want the shit    spend the dough on canon lens.  The reason I say 24-70mm focal length is because that will be a good walking around lens with that reach and good for the clubs.  If you want a lot of reach, the canon 70-200L series lenses are fantastic but spendy (1k+).  The 30d's, just now replaced by the 40d, is another route as the bodies can be had for great price at bhphoto as they still have some in stock.  The 40d is better, but will blow your 1k budget.


myself,  I shoot a 20d and a rebel xt as a backup.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

There is a lot to be said for costco's no-penalty 90 day return policy. Unfortunately I just let my membership lapse.

As a baseline, I'd strongly consider a d40+lens kit from costco for $500 + a supplemental lens or two. Maybe study up on that and then decide if there is a better choice within your price range. 

Can't link direct to the nikons but just search for nikon:

http://www.costco.com

[spreetaper]

i also agree that sigma lense is a great deal for concert use and general use (sigma 24-70 ex dg f2.8.)

Rebel XT - body only $399
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/371189-REG/Canon_0209B001_EOS_Digital_Rebel_XT.html

Rebel XTI - body only $544
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/457506-REG/Canon_1236B002_EOS_Digital_Rebel_XTi.html

Canon 50mm f1.8 $75
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-USA/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html

Canon 85mm f1.8 $315
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12182-USA/Canon_2519A003_85mm_f_1_8_USM_Autofocus.html

Sigma 24-70 ex dg f2.8 $429
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/350974-REG/Sigma_548110_24_70mm_f_2_8_EX_DG.html

[ellaguru]

this package doesnt seem too bad, since it does have a 2nd lens...opinions?

http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/SLR1160.htm

thanks again!

chris

[spreetaper]

hmm that cam is only 6.1 megapixels thats a bit low
plus the add doesnt tell u that F stop for the lenses.. my guess is they are atleast 3.5-5
neither of them would be good for low light...

[ellaguru]

hmm that cam is only 6.1 megapixels thats a bit low
plus the add doesnt tell u that F stop for the lenses.. my guess is they are atleast 3.5-5
neither of them would be good for low light...

i was concerned about the low # of mp's as well...ill keep looking...

thanks again for the guidance

chris

[spreetaper]

yeah generally you will be fine with an 8.. its not like you are going to be printing out poster size images ;-) 10 MP is nice too.. anymore than that is overkill in my book

apparently dell has a special right now as well for the Digital Rebel XT body $382

[it-goes-to-eleven]

yeah generally you will be fine with an 8.. its not like you are going to be printing out poster size images ;-)

Then what's the point of the new tech and all that cash?

My film based shots go poster size quite well.

[spreetaper]

yeah generally you will be fine with an 8.. its not like you are going to be printing out poster size images ;-)

Then what's the point of the new tech and all that cash?

My film based shots go poster size quite well.

check out this site.. that should help ya

http://www.design215.com/toolbox/megapixels.php

"You can make nice 8" x 10" prints with a 6 or 8 megapixel camera, but to make a true photo quality 16" x 20" print, you need between 24 and 30 megapixels"

[Frank in JC]

kind of redundant as I tyed this before spreetaper did but here it is.

canon or nikon.  You decide.  I like canon, probably because I shoot with it both film and digital.

canon route, the rebel xti is a very nice one.  More on the pro side, the 40d is around that range (body only).  The xti will be a little cheaper.  As for lens, f2.8 is a must for a zoom lens for low light.  Fixed lens, f1.8 or better (lower).

My recs for around 1kish, a canon rebel xti (body only) and a sigma 24-70 ex dg f2.8.  The lens is a nice one (I own it, among others) but is half the price of the comparable f2.8 canon lens of same focal length.  Of course, if you want the shit    spend the dough on canon lens.  The reason I say 24-70mm focal length is because that will be a good walking around lens with that reach and good for the clubs.  If you want a lot of reach, the canon 70-200L series lenses are fantastic but spendy (1k+).  The 30d's, just now replaced by the 40d, is another route as the bodies can be had for great price at bhphoto as they still have some in stock.  The 40d is better, but will blow your 1k budget.


myself,  I shoot a 20d and a rebel xt as a backup.

Good recommendation, but if you're talking Sigma on a DSLR, I would go for the 17-70 f/2.8, not the 24-70.  The latter is good if you're shooting film, but for digital, definitely the 17-70 (~$400).  Phanophish is a fan, I believe. 

If I was buying a DSLR for a woman, based on style considerations alone, I would probably get her a Canon.  I think the curves of the Canon bodies are more "feminine" than the traditionally harder lines of Nikon.  (No, that is absolutely not a dig on you Canon guys!)

[ellaguru]

she already had an ae-1 and a canon rebel so i think canon it is....that 10mp one from b&h is prob the way im headed....time to break out the credit card   

big thanks again for all the help here...im a total nOob when it comes to camears...

chris

[stirinthesauce]

yeah generally you will be fine with an 8.. its not like you are going to be printing out poster size images ;-)

Then what's the point of the new tech and all that cash?

My film based shots go poster size quite well.

check out this site.. that should help ya

http://www.design215.com/toolbox/megapixels.php

"You can make nice 8" x 10" prints with a 6 or 8 megapixel camera, but to make a true photo quality 16" x 20" print, you need between 24 and 30 megapixels"

Haven't tried the 16x20 prints yet but I'm getting tack sharp prints on 11x14's.  Zero pixalation.  Gonna send off for a 16x20 soon so I'll report.  The response I got this summer along these lines when I was in a class was that on the larger prints, any pixalation that might be noticeable, won't, since you won't be looking at it close enough to notice.  Of course, my hands on experience is nill, so take it with a grain of salt.  I find my 8.2mp 20d more than adequate, however, the 40d is on my real short list of jumps to make.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

yeah generally you will be fine with an 8.. its not like you are going to be printing out poster size images ;-)

Then what's the point of the new tech and all that cash?

My film based shots go poster size quite well.

check out this site.. that should help ya

http://www.design215.com/toolbox/megapixels.php

That site and table are misleading... It is a standard 300dpi conversion chart and he's trying to use the term "true photo quality" which is not defined.  We're not talking about producing magazine ads.  Many of those are still done with large format film cameras.

Small prints are typically viewed from short distances of 6" to 24", maybe 36".  Poster size prints aren't intended to be viewed that close. When you read the comments, many people challenge the guy's chart/claims and he backs down, saying stuff like "A consumer with a $200 4MP camera who has no idea how to use Photoshop, is not going to achieve the same results."

It is Very difficult to capture the quality of a good film image digitally with a scanner, especially 35mm. Just like with audio, an end-to-end analog process has advantages.

So anyway, for me, quality at poster print sizes is important. Good glass is also very important.

[spreetaper]

eh it may not be perfect but its a good starting point for newbies

and im talking straight prints...
anyone can edit the hell out of a pic in Photoshop to make it look better at larger sizes...

then again i have no idea what your concept of a good quality poster sized print is...
could be vastly different from mine.. oh well

[ellaguru]

thanks again for all the help...

found the canon XTi 10mp for ~$250 
and went with the stubby canon 50mm & the sigma 17-70 from b&h...

chris

[phanophish]

check out this site.. that should help ya

http://www.design215.com/toolbox/megapixels.php

"You can make nice 8" x 10" prints with a 6 or 8 megapixel camera, but to make a true photo quality 16" x 20" print, you need between 24 and 30 megapixels"

FWIW I do not agree with this statement.  I have a 20x30 image framed in my living room that was shot with an old 6 Megapixel Canon XT that I had it it looks as good as anything I have seen from film (35mm)ever.   It was a full frame image and if you begin to crop much having more than 6mp is nice for large (11x14+) images.  Anything up to 8x10 and any modern DSLR will serve you just fine.

More important things to watch out for in my opinion are (for my needs) high ISO performance, focusing performance, metering, ease of use.  Canon & Nikon both make great cameras.  Things I'd look out for on the Nikon D40 is it's lack of a focus motor.  It means you must buy lenses with built in focus motors or rely on manual focus.  I don't think Nikons 50/1.8 is available with the motor built in.  I'd steer you more towards finding a D80 or keep your eyes open for a D200 used.  It is an amazing camera and built like a tank.  I'm seeing them all the time for around $900-$1000 now that everyone is upgrading to the D3 or D300.  It all depends on how serious you are and what your goals are subject wise.

On the Canon Side, the Xt & XTi are both good options, my sister just bought a XT with the kit lens on my recommendation for $500.  She is shooting family stuff and not doing anything low light so the kit glass is fine.  You might also consider a used 20 or 30D.  Both should be available in your price range and are also a significant step up from the lower end models (XT/XTi).

Right now I think Nikon is just a bit behind Canon in the performance of their lower end (<$1000) bodies.  At the high end though, Nikon's new D300 and D3 are simply stunning and finally give Canon something to worry about.  I want a D3 so bad it's crazy, but I can't justify $5000 on a camera body right now.

As a general rule the big plus to the Nikon line is they tend to be more compatible with legacy equipment.  I can take a 50 year old Nikon lens and it will slap right on any of my Nikon bodies.  Canon does not tend to be as consistent as their products go from one generation to the next.  It may sound small, but if you already have a bunch of glass it can be a big deal.  Nikon also has a better speedlight system in everything from the D70 up than Canon.

Finally, someone else mentioned the Sigma 15-50/2.8 lens.  I have one and do really like it.  It's much less expensive than the Nikon/Canon version and 95% as good.  That and a 50/1.8 will make for a nice concert shooting rig, that will also do a great job in almost any situation.

If you have other questions just ask.

[phanophish]

thanks again for all the help...

found the canon XTi 10mp for ~$250 

chris

Where?  That is too cheap.  There are lots of shady camera stores on the web, that kind of price almost had to be from one of them.  Check anywhere you are thinking of purchasing electronics from online out one a site like http://www.resellerratings.com/rlist-s1-n2.html if they have a bad or no rating then they are almost always a scam. 

[phanophish]

One more thing....

Lenses, there are 2 numbers that are important on a lens.  Focal length, typically expressed in millimeters, and maximum aperture, expressed in "F" stops.  Usually you will see something like 50mm/f1.8.  this means the lens has a 50mm focal length.  Larger focal lengths mean more "zoom" while lower numbers mean wider angle for field of view.  Aperture is a measurement of the amount of light the lens allows to pass through, the lower the number the better.  With lenses more light is usually better and costs more as the actual glass elements must be larger to allow the light to pass and therefore cost more to produce because of their size. 

http://www.photoaxe.com/understanding-the-lens-focal-length-and-aperture/

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/fototech/apershutter/aperture.htm

http://www.best-family-photography-tips.com/camera-aperture.html

[ellaguru]

thanks again for all the help...

found the canon XTi 10mp for ~$250 

chris

Where?  That is too cheap.  There are lots of shady camera stores on the web, that kind of price almost had to be from one of them.  Check anywhere you are thinking of purchasing electronics from online out one a site like http://www.resellerratings.com/rlist-s1-n2.html if they have a bad or no rating then they are almost always a scam. 

sorry...ham handed typer here!  i meant i got it from b&h (the body) & the '$250' was for other stuff....ive been all goofed up on nyquil for a couple days...that shit is harsh!

[phanophish]

thanks again for all the help...

found the canon XTi 10mp for ~$250 

chris

Where?  That is too cheap.  There are lots of shady camera stores on the web, that kind of price almost had to be from one of them.  Check anywhere you are thinking of purchasing electronics from online out one a site like http://www.resellerratings.com/rlist-s1-n2.html if they have a bad or no rating then they are almost always a scam. 

sorry...ham handed typer here!  i meant i got it from b&h (the body) & the '$250' was for other stuff....ive been all goofed up on nyquil for a couple days...that shit is harsh!

Phew....  B&H is great.  I just didn't want to see you get ripped off.  Sounds like you will have a nice setup.  You will love the DSLR.  Makes photography fun again.  We'll all be anxious to see some images.

[ellaguru]

thanks for all the tips....

i was aware of 'resellerratings' and try to refer to them when using a new place (for me) to order off the net....

b&h is the place indeed!


chris

[stevetoney]

Buy her a new pair of AKG-414's or something and when she opens the package on Christmas morning tell her how great the spirit of Christmas giving makes you feel.

Then tell her that she can buy you a pair of mics for Christmas next year.

[ellaguru]

Buy her a new pair of AKG-414's or something and when she opens the package on Christmas morning tell her how great the spirit of Christmas giving makes you feel.

Then tell her that she can buy you a pair of mics for Christmas next year.

i was pondering a set of m70 caps for her   

im actually looking forward to a new digi camera myself, so it'll all work out just fine