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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: shpy on April 04, 2016, 09:10:16 AM

Title: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on April 04, 2016, 09:10:16 AM
Hy tapers, Please, can someone explain me, what portable recorder i need for decent sound while recording live shows :)

Now i have zoom h4n recorder and  http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-2  mics.. I use 4CH and use both mics.. internal and external for different sounds and later i mix them.  Zoom has a lot of features that i dont need. (i dont like zooms auto level, because it just reduce sound to -6db but not raise when i need. Sometimes in record one guitar has noticeable lower level, while camcorder records that sound better)  Can someone suggest recorder with xlr and 4 tracks mode oriented to loud sound source for better quality ?  Maybe in rock, metal live recording DR-40 would be better? or i just have to play with all settings i have in zoom
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: rocksuitcase on April 04, 2016, 12:33:52 PM
I'm not advocating for any gear or providing rec's, but many times this has been covered here, for 4 channels these are the typical lower price point ones used here:
Tascam DR 70D discussed here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175623.0
Roland R-44: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=153957.0
Tascam Dr680 mkII: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=171565.0

I own a 680 and have liked it so far after about 5 shows I have used it at. It is more expensive new than the DR 70D, The r-44 is about same price point as the 680, maybe a bit more.

Also, if you are using only 2 mics, and are doing loud PA rock n roll, let us know what will you use the other 2 channels for?

And welcome to TS.com. Keep looking in the Yard sale and make sure you are strong- easy to get addicted to this hobby    8) >:D

Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: lsd2525 on April 04, 2016, 02:27:46 PM
Don't overlook the DR60 if you don't need two sets of XLR's. (records 4 channels, 2 XLR w/phantom, 2 1/8" stereo w/PIP if you need it).

Rock solid, good price point. I've got a set of mics with XLR's that don't need phantom; simple 2 XLR > 1/8" stereo cable works like a champ. Same deal if you snag a SBD.
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: pdastoor on April 04, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
 I don't know if the DR100-MKII does 4 track recording but it is pretty good. You may also want to use a external preamp, i would recommend sound devices mm1
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on April 05, 2016, 03:42:02 AM
thanks guys.. i will look into these recorders.. :)


Record i did lately in small club with 4 mics.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clh5OJHFoB4 
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on April 05, 2016, 05:34:29 AM
earlier when i didint have recorder.. i used mics directly to camera using:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-SPSB-10.jpg
and
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/mas_assets/full/SP-ATEN-1.jpg

and when i have it.. i don't feel big difference in sound. Maybe its was not worth it :)
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on February 04, 2018, 04:48:48 PM
Hello again. :) i need advice what  budget recoder i should get  for concerts. Maybe roland r-05?  I want buy something used for under 100$. Please advice.
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: heathen on February 04, 2018, 05:01:34 PM
I think you may have a hard time finding an R-05 for $100.  Maybe after the R-07 is released, but there are still some unanswered questions about the R-07 that may or may not take it out of the running for live concert recording using external mics.
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on February 05, 2018, 01:15:49 AM
I found roland r-5 for 80$ but  again there was discution that it cant take hot signals. I gave battery box and attenuator cable. I see that best recorder was in deep past :D and know there are no a lot of choices :)
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on February 05, 2018, 01:52:49 AM
So i think there are three options for looking?

Roland-R09
Roland-R09HR   (best option? good "hoot signal")
Roland-R05
Olympus LS- 10,11,12 

Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on February 05, 2018, 12:47:27 PM
Nobody will help? :(
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: rocksuitcase on February 05, 2018, 12:53:12 PM
I don't think the Olympus will do 4 channels as you mention in your OP. Also, they are more than $100 new. I have a buddy who loves his LS-10 for internal recordings, but he is typically part of the crew and has very close to the stage access.
Never used any of those Roland products.
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on February 05, 2018, 01:10:57 PM
I used  4 channels.. but nothing changed. So now i want recorder without XLR. With input line
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: heathen on February 05, 2018, 02:42:32 PM
You might want to post your questions in the Team Metal thread. 

I don't have any experience with some of the things you posted, so I can't really say much that would be useful about them. 

I will say that I have recorded several metal shows with a Roland R-05, though always with external mics and a battery box or preamp.  I haven't had any problems with the R-05, so I'm not sure what you mean about it not being able to handle a hot signal. 

One thing that's not clear to me is what, if anything, is wrong with your H4n?  You said it has a lot of features you don't need...but is that really an issue worth buying a different recorder over?  Unless there's something wrong with your H4n, it doesn't seem like a wise use of your budget to buy a different recorder  :shrug:
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: shpy on February 06, 2018, 01:33:15 AM
I sold zoom h4n long time ago :) its big and find things i didint like. I didint find good deal for roland so i will try olympus ls-12.
Title: Re: ROCK / METAL loud live recording
Post by: earmonger on February 25, 2018, 09:53:17 PM
You may not need a new recorder--just a battery module to deal with the hot signal.

If you are trying to record mics directly into Mic-in, that could be your problem. At metal volumes, the mics themselves can overload--and I expect that most internal mics would as well. Then mic-in goes through an internal pre-amp that amplifies the signal more, another chance to overload.

An attenuator cuts down the signal after it comes out of the mic, which makes things easier for the Mic-in preamp. But if the mic has already overloaded for lack of power, it can't fix that.

I record most amplified music, including metal, with mics (CA-11) into a 12-volt BATTERY MODULE into Line-In. Extra power from the module to the mics lets them handle louder sounds. And there's no preamp behind Line-in., but the battery module supplies enough power to get a nice clear signal recorded. 

Read the Soundpros page for the CMC-4 and it talks about power options. https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U  The SoundPros SP-SPSB-10 is probably fine, or use their online chat to doublecheck what would work best with your mics and recorder.