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Author Topic: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?  (Read 32027 times)

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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« on: November 10, 2007, 10:58:45 AM »
My friend wants me to go over to his house and record him playing his baby grand piano. I read a couple of articles for engineers but they don't offer much info for stero recording. I am thinking about using my pair of AKG 414XLS. Anyone care to give me some insight or if you have pics that you can post that would be awesome. Thank you in advance for your help.

Offline rokpunk

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2007, 11:31:15 AM »
put your 414's in omni, space the mics about 4" over the strings, put the piano on it's short stick, throw a sound blanket over top all of it, and give it a try. you might try moving the low end mic back a bit further than the high notes mic. whenever possible, omnis should be used on pianos. cards tend to give the recording too much seperation between highs and lows.
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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2007, 11:32:50 AM »
I have read the DPA literature but was wondering what other people have tried. Thanks for the recommendations. I will try a few different ways and will report back.

Offline bhtoque

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2007, 01:26:29 PM »
put your 414's in omni, space the mics about 4" over the strings, put the piano on it's short stick, throw a sound blanket over top all of it, and give it a try. you might try moving the low end mic back a bit further than the high notes mic. whenever possible, omnis should be used on pianos. cards tend to give the recording too much seperation between highs and lows.

I was just discussing this with the foh guy for the bad plus. He was using a pair of 414's set card, but basically as you described. 4-5 inches over strings, one for low end back from keys. Said he favors opening the piano up, but had it on the short stick for the shows I saw.

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Offline BayTaynt3d

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2007, 02:26:42 PM »
Depends on how ambient or how up front you want the sound. You can stick the mics inside real close, but you can also get an awesome recording by backing away a bit and running XY or DIN, etc. Use your ears for placement, and walk around listening while sticking a finger in one ear. Also, raising the pair up a bit can be worthwhile. There's a million different ways to mic a piano. Close in is a bit more pop, back a bit is a bit more classical. If you have four channels, you can do both and mix to preference in post.
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Offline rokpunk

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2007, 04:27:15 PM »
best way to mic a piano, bar none - http://www.earthworksaudio.com/77.html
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Offline John Willett

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 05:29:26 PM »
Piano recording is my speciality - this is what I do..........

If it's a grand you really need omnis - and that's real pressure microphone omnis, not an omni made up from back-to-back cardioids as used in a switchable mic.

The distance and position will vary from piano to piano, room to room and music to music, so don't get tied down to a specific set-up.

I tend to prefer 20cm spaced omnis at around shoulder height at a distance from the piano.  The distance will depend on the acoustics, the piano and the music.

Get the pianist to play and listen with your ears until you find the place where it sounds best to you - then stick the mics where your ears were - 9 times out of 10 this will be the best position.

My preferred mics are the Sennheiser MKH 20s, though my current project is being recorded with Neumann KM-D omnis (I have both 183 and 131 heads) and my new project in the spring will be with the new MKH 8020.



The picture shows the first recording session with both the MKH 20s and the KM 183-Ds - the CD will be with the KM 183-D.  The KM-D are vertical because the 183 is a diffuse field mic. and the recording is in the nearfield - vertical means they have a flat response at 90°.

I hope this helps.


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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2007, 12:35:56 AM »
My buddy Mike Morgan suggested this to me, and it was stunning..Ive used it ever since...

mics at the same height as the piano lid, angled down on the lid in such a way that they are in the exact plane/space as the lid..essentially removing the lid from the equation.(mike is in the DPA university section)

Omnis of course(Josephson c617 with Gefell Mk221 or DPA 4006s are my choice)


Offline Charlie Miller

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2007, 12:39:08 AM »
One time, just for fun, I mic'd the piano from underneath using a pair of Schoeps MK4's. Came out quite nice.
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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2007, 02:55:53 AM »
One time, just for fun, I mic'd the piano from underneath using a pair of Schoeps MK4's. Came out quite nice.

Recently went to an acoustic MMW show and they had one underneath and one inside.
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2007, 04:39:08 AM »
interesting techniques, thanks guys!

now the question, should I trade my 483's for 414 XLS's ??? could be useful if I ever got this kind of opportunity....
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Offline guysonic

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2007, 05:46:19 AM »
Obviously there are many ways to mic a piano, with each providing a 'piano sound' that sometimes sounds good, but actually getting the 'sound of the piano' as you heard takes more specific mic method and placement.

My 'favorite' mic method for piano is using HRTF baffled omni stereo-surround method.  Recordings done in this manner in many recordings with photos/equipment notes found on page: www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm

Several discussion threads on piano recording methods found in the FAQ section at: www.sonicstudios.com/page16.html 

It's a very long page with many piano recording mic method discussions that should be of interest if you love the true sound of the piano instrument and not just going for another 'piano sound' type of recording.
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Offline John Willett

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2007, 02:48:22 PM »
As has been said, there are many ways to mic. up a piano.

My method (described above) assumes a piano recital with solo piano in an acoustic space and the resulting recording is pretty well as the audience would hear it.

Some of the other methods mentioned are more suitable for recording in a studio situation where the piano is being used with other instruments.

And, yes, I have miked up underneath the piano with a pair of Neumann GFM 132 boundary mics. - came out superb, but I would not use this method for a recital recording of solo piano.

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2007, 03:32:18 PM »
Ah Guy, you are the king of Self Marketing. It was only a matter of time..what a coincidence that that page you pointed to isnt really a "forum", but more quotes (mainly from you) glorifying your products, and hand selecting quotes in which others Laud them. It would be ok if it were here and there, but forcing it down everyone's throats gets a bit annoying.

Mr. Willett, which ones above would work better for studio work?


Obviously there are many ways to mic a piano, with each providing a 'piano sound' that sometimes sounds good, but actually getting the 'sound of the piano' as you heard takes more specific mic method and placement.

My 'favorite' mic method for piano is using HRTF baffled omni stereo-surround method.  Recordings done in this manner in many recordings with photos/equipment notes found on page: www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm

Several discussion threads on piano recording methods found in the FAQ section at: www.sonicstudios.com/page16.html 

It's a very long page with many piano recording mic method discussions that should be of interest if you love the true sound of the piano instrument and not just going for another 'piano sound' type of recording.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 03:37:10 PM by Teddy »

Offline boojum

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Re: Microphone techniques for baby grand piano?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2007, 04:34:30 PM »
My friend wants me to go over to his house and record him playing his baby grand piano. I read a couple of articles for engineers but they don't offer much info for stero recording. I am thinking about using my pair of AKG 414XLS. Anyone care to give me some insight or if you have pics that you can post that would be awesome. Thank you in advance for your help.

You might want to read Michael William's article, too, on mic spacing in reference to the broadness of the soundfield.  He is referenced on this board.  If you cannot find his work, "Stereo Zoom" PM me and I will send it to you.  It is a good, simple cookbook approach.

Cheers
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