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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: RobS on September 19, 2016, 08:18:21 PM

Title: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 19, 2016, 08:18:21 PM
Just checking, is it possible to connect two DPA 4060s (microdot) to a Sound Professional battery module or preamp?

I contacted Sound Professionals, but they're not giving any suggestions.

Apart from a CA9200 with microdot connectors or something like a MixPre with adapter, are there any others options?

The battery module or preamp will connect to a PCM-M10.

Thanks.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: audBall on September 20, 2016, 10:03:33 AM
You can purchase one of these cables (I purchased a 2 footer):

http://www.cdint.com/catalog/category/Cables/10-32+female/to+10-32+female/RG174

And have it sent to TS member darktrain (contact prior), who will cut it in half to make a y-cable with an 1/8" connector attached, which will insert to a Sound Professionals battery box.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: ilduclo on September 20, 2016, 10:24:23 AM
sheesh! that's complicated! Why not just have the microdots cut off and terminate in a single 1/8" stereo mini?
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: audBall on September 20, 2016, 10:52:11 AM
You could certainly do that. My suggestion allows for the original cables to remain intact.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: Gutbucket on September 20, 2016, 12:09:59 PM
Also, for those who prefer to make their own microdot>stereo-miniplug adapter rather than having someone like Darktrain make one for them, the CDINT female microdot terminated cable Horus posted a linked to above is far easier to solder than the super-fine center conductor in the DPA mic cable.  Cutting and re-terminating the DPA mic cables directly is a pretty finicky soldering job more commonly prone to premature failure, cutting and re-terminating the CDINT cable is not.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: dactylus on September 27, 2016, 05:12:26 AM
You can purchase one of these cables (I purchased a 2 footer):

http://www.cdint.com/catalog/category/Cables/10-32+female/to+10-32+female/RG174

And have it sent to TS member darktrain (contact prior), who will cut it in half to make a y-cable with an 1/8" connector attached, which will insert to a Sound Professionals battery box.

^
Thank you for the link!
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 27, 2016, 09:52:18 AM
Thanks all. I opted to try the t.bone L-Pack/2xDAD6017.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: aaronji on September 27, 2016, 11:01:14 AM
^ Are you sure that will work?  The way I read it, the DAD6017 is just an adapter (microdot to mini-XLR) for wireless systems and the t.bone L-pack is a P48 supply.  Maybe I am missing something, but, if I am not, it might fry the mics to do it this way.  Also, what comes out of the L-pack?  The website says it is balanced output; I don't think you can get balanced stereo output on a single 3-pin XLR.  That also jibes with the data sheet, which says, "Connect up to two suitable microphones to the microphone inputs. The signals from both inputs are mixed together in the device."

I would definitely place a call to Thomann and inquire about this...
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: Gutbucket on September 27, 2016, 11:17:03 AM
Aaron is correct.  That device will sum the two microphones to a single balanced output.  For it to work for stereo recording you'd need two of them, with one mic (and mini-xlr adapter) plugged into each.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 27, 2016, 02:07:58 PM
In fact Thomann recommended the set-up, but I just emailed them about it with both your comments.

Thanks.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 27, 2016, 02:32:02 PM
This is the out cable Thomann recommended
https://www.thomann.de/de/cae_20035_kamerakabel.htm

One of the reviews:

Solidly built cable, we bought one as a band because we use a DI box and wanted to emulate how it would sound out of a set of speakers. Worked an absolute charm, easy to plug in and works in stero too, which means you get both L and R signals. Definitely worth it
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: Gutbucket on September 27, 2016, 02:49:15 PM
It is possible that the L-Pack output could be switched from the standard configuration with a balanced mono output consisting of the two microphone signals summed within the device, to an unbalanced stereo out with separate microphone signals.  The same 3-conductor XLR out can be used for either configuration.  However, that functionality is not apparent from the photos nor Thomann's very limited description of it.  Unfortunately there is no link to a user manual, and a google search turned up nothing.

The cable you linked would work.  The issue isn't the cable but if the L-pack can output an unbalanced stereo signal instead of a balanced mono signal.

That cable can transmit either two unbalanced signals (stereo), or one balanced signal (mono).  Either way there are three conductors.  In balanced mode the three are designated: shield, signal +, and signal -.  In unbalanced mode the three are designated: shared signal ground, channel 1 signal +, and channel 2 signal +.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 28, 2016, 03:28:19 AM
Thomann said

"So you could not make an Stereo recording when you have an only one 3,5 mm Mic Input Mono!. The Signal what will send from the L-Pack is only mono not stereo!"

I don't get it. How can I get a stereo recording from the two DPA 4060s into the Sony-M10?

Does the CDINT cable into the SP battery box way do that?

From Sound Professionals:

If you would prefer to use the adapters available from the manufacturer, you would need two of them with miniplugs and you would instead select a battery module that has two single inputs, like this:

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-8-MKII

So I'd need two Microdot to miniplug adapters...
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 28, 2016, 08:51:07 AM
Would this set-up work?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/390976-REG/DPA_Microphones_DAD6034_DAD6034_MicroDot_to_Locking.html

The set-up would be

2 x DPA 4060 > 2 x DAD6034 adapter > SP-SPSB-8-MKII > Sony PCM-M10.

That would give me a stereo recording into the Sony PCM-M10, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: aaronji on September 28, 2016, 09:05:49 AM
^ That looks like it would work, so long as you get the battery box with the two mono inputs.

I am curious why you aren't interested in the Y-cable option mentioned by audBall a few posts back.  The cost of the cable, plus the work, will likely be a lot less than even one of those DAD6034s and you'll be able to use it with a wide range of battery boxes (or pres) and the M10.   
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: Gutbucket on September 28, 2016, 09:41:00 AM
Aaron just answered while I was typing, basically saying the same thing..

Yes, that will work (although DPA DAD3050 "Microdot to a Mini-Jack" will be the prefered adapters), assuming you order the SoundPros battery box with two mono mini-jack inputs instead of a single stereo minijack input.

That setup does have the advantage of using all "off the shelf" components without the need for any cable modification. 

Yet there are some downsides.  First, this is a more costly way of achieving the goal. The DPA adapters are not inexpensive.  Making, or having someone make for you a 2 X female microdot to stereo mini-jack adapter cable as mentioned at the start of the thread will not only be less costly, it will also be somewhat more compact / less bulky, and more universal, allowing you to use in place of the dual mono input SoundPros box, any battery box, low voltage preamp, or recorder (with sufficient PIP power) which has a stereo mini jack input.  And devices with that input are considerably more common than those with dual mono mini-jack inputs.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 28, 2016, 10:41:08 AM
Thanks. I was wondering about the DAD3050 adapter.

It's just easier to get hold of the DPA adapters.

I don't live in the US. I'm in Singapore, so I don't know how I could get the cable to darktrain.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: aaronji on September 28, 2016, 11:02:55 AM
^ You can probably have the cable shipped directly from CD Int'l to darktrain, have him do the work, and then send it to you in Singapore.  As the finished cable will fit into a small, padded envelope, it will probably escape the notice of customs, too (if it is even of high enough value to warrant an import tax)...
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 28, 2016, 11:26:38 AM
Usually shipping and billing addresses have to be same, but I suppose I could check with CDINT.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: aaronji on September 28, 2016, 11:58:59 AM
^ Funny you should say that!  I have been meaning to get one of these Y-cables for ages, and this thread spurred me to look into it further.  Since I live in the Netherlands, I would also have to deal with the international aspect, so I have already mailed CD Int'l:

Quote from: CD Int'l
We can certainly do that, and it is something we do for our customers
quite often.  You can order online, and specify the shipping address
yourself, and the shipping cost will be calculated accordingly.

But, please let us know if you would prefer to order via email, and I
will send you the Paypay payment request for secure payment
afterwards.

I am going to send a PM to darktrain and ask him about if from his end.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 28, 2016, 12:21:14 PM
Yes, I just called CDINT. Shipping address can be different from the billing address.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on September 29, 2016, 01:18:49 PM
Anyone know if darktrain still provides the cable cutting service? I sent a PM but haven't received a reply.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: audBall on September 29, 2016, 02:09:07 PM
He did mine about 2-3 months ago. I'm pretty sure he'll get back to you either way.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: RobS on October 01, 2016, 11:44:19 AM
So, I just decided to have the CDINT Microdot 2-foot cable shipped directly to Sound Professionals, who will cut the cable in half and add the mini jack connectors for $30. Then they'll ship the 2 x mono input SP-SPSB-8-MKII battery module and Microdot cables to me.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: ilduclo on October 01, 2016, 01:26:58 PM
Soundpros is a good company to deal with :bigsmile:
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: benwah on January 31, 2017, 04:28:22 PM
Would the cdint+darktrain cable work well to connect 2x dpa 4060 into a tascam dr-100 mk3 directly?
While providing correct powering?

(2 X female microdot to stereo mini-jack adapter)

I can't believe how expensive the microdot to xlr adapters are, and it would be great to have the reduced bulk of this alternative cable.

I am an ignorant newb so if this question is missing something obvious please don't laugh too hard
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: Gutbucket on January 31, 2017, 04:44:59 PM
That will make the correct connection to the DR100mk3's minijack input, but the recorder will not provide sufficient voltage to properly power the microphones.  You'll either need to use a battery box plus a stereo-mini to stereo-mini patch cable between battery box and the DR100, or use phantom power adapters into the DR100's XLR inputs.  I'm happy using Naiant PFA phantom power adapters.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: benwah on February 01, 2017, 12:36:46 PM
I called DPA and they said to use DAD6001 adapters, which I was trying to avoid for high cost reasons ($230 for pair).

I contacted Naiant about PFA, and they also said I should just go with DAD6001, smaller and cost diff not so great.

If I get a DPA 4060 pair kit, the kit comes with 2 dad6001 included so I guess I'll go that route.
Thank you for help, might PM for further advice later.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: Gutbucket on February 01, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Maybe the cost of the Naiant PFAs went up, they used to cost significantly less than a pair of DAD6001.  The aren't larger, mine are almost exactly the same size, but in actual use they are significantly more compact.  I'll explain-

The DAD6001 has the advantage of having a female microdot connector input, so a stock, standard male microdot-terminated 4060 will attach to it directly.  But that's also a disadvantage, in that the microdot connector is at the end of the adapter opposite the XLR output, and when plugged directly into the input of the recorder the adapter leaves the rather delicate microdot connection and mic cable sticking out vulnerably.  The microdot connection and mic cable strain-relief require around an additional 2" of well-protected clearance.  That problem can be remedied by using a short 1' long XLR-RA patch cable between the recorder input and adapter, so the adapter is no longer rigidly mounted to the recorder.

The Naiant PFA has it's input on a short cable.  For stereo use, typically a pair of PFAs are wired to a single stereo input connector (usually mini-jack or mini-XLR). I've made a slight cut in the rubber strain reliefs of each of my PFAs which serves to form a protected side cable entry.  The cable turns 90 degrees before it exits the strain relief and nests into the cut.  When the PFA is plugged directly into the recorder, the end of the rubber strain relief then acts as a rubber bumper against the inside of the recording bag, rather than the thin mic cable and delicate microdot connection getting crushed.  The disadvantage is that the non-microdot input connection either requires re-termination of the mic cables, or requires female-microdot>mini-jack or mini-XLR adapters. 

One additional detail to note.  Jon can build the PFA to be either signal polarity inverting or non-inverting.  His standard for low voltage mics is inverting, which corrects the typically inverted polarity output of most small electret microphones.  The DPA miniature microphones produce a non-inverted output signal, so if you go the PFA route, ask for them to be non-inverting.  The DAD6001 is non-inverting as it was designed to work with DPA mics.  The signal polarity issue is probably only an issue if you are mixing multi-channel sources.  You can always invert polarity of the track in your editor of course, but this avoids the need to do that, and allows for internal mixing in multichannel recorders which do not provide signal polarity switching.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: ~Jon Stoppable on February 01, 2017, 10:18:48 PM
The problem is microdots are just extremely expensive connectors, so it's like $80 for a microdot input PFA vs. $115 for the DAD6001.  Also, the 4060 is low output impedance, so the buffer amp in the PFA is redundant.  Thus I discourage that solution.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: CTjazzfanatic on September 12, 2017, 11:18:41 AM
Quick question for anyone using the Y cable into a sound professional battery box and a PCM-M10, do you suggest going mic in, or line in to the recorder?
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: aaronji on September 12, 2017, 07:16:28 PM
^ It depends a lot on the SPL. From your signature, I think you have 4061s, which are not all that sensitive (6 mV/Pa compared to 20 mV/Pa for 4060s). For quiet sources, I would probably use the mic input. For moderate to loud sources, the line input might be better. You can kind of guess-timate from the specs...
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: CTjazzfanatic on September 12, 2017, 08:37:55 PM
^ It depends a lot on the SPL. From your signature, I think you have 4061s, which are not all that sensitive (6 mV/Pa compared to 20 mV/Pa for 4060s). For quiet sources, I would probably use the mic input. For moderate to loud sources, the line input might be better. You can kind of guess-timate from the specs...

Oh, I was actually asking with respect to DPA 4060s, which I just purchased along with a Y cable from darktrain to connect to the SP battery box. Recording jazz exclusively - usually in smaller venues - sometimes unamplified. Guess I will do a little trial and error and see what happens. Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: aaronji on September 13, 2017, 02:30:54 PM
The 4060s will give you nearly 10.5 dB of gain compared to the 4061s, so you will probably be able to record line-in much of the time.  I also record a lot of jazz, generally in smaller venues and sometimes unamplified, and have had pretty good luck running 4060 > BB into either input.  You will generally know in advance if it will be towards one extreme of loudness or the other; for most of the stuff in the middle, you can use either input...
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: CTjazzfanatic on September 13, 2017, 10:41:54 PM
The 4060s will give you nearly 10.5 dB of gain compared to the 4061s, so you will probably be able to record line-in much of the time.  I also record a lot of jazz, generally in smaller venues and sometimes unamplified, and have had pretty good luck running 4060 > BB into either input.  You will generally know in advance if it will be towards one extreme of loudness or the other; for most of the stuff in the middle, you can use either input...

Thanks again. That is very helpful.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: Gutbucket on September 15, 2017, 11:25:39 AM
I use four 4060's, recording into both mic and line inputs of a DR2d simultaneously.   You just need to manage your preamp gain so as to stay within the known-good input range of each input on the recorder.
Title: Re: How to connect DPA 4060s to Sound Professional battery module or preamp?
Post by: obsidian on September 18, 2017, 10:10:47 PM
^ That looks like it would work, so long as you get the battery box with the two mono inputs.

I am curious why you aren't interested in the Y-cable option mentioned by audBall a few posts back.  The cost of the cable, plus the work, will likely be a lot less than even one of those DAD6034s and you'll be able to use it with a wide range of battery boxes (or pres) and the M10.

+1 to the audBall solution.