Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: dank on January 26, 2017, 02:39:49 PM
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Ok, I know I could search and probably find a million debates on this, but hoping someone can give me the broad strokes on a buying decision.
I currently run DPA 4021s and will continue to use these as my primary pair, but find myself recording in a less-than-ideal room (not bad, just not great) more often than not lately and want to see if hypers can help me out. I would likely still run the 4021s alongside the schoeps, because it's just hitting another button.
I've elected to look at Schoeps mics because I know they perform well and who knows, if the 4021s bite the dust, MK4's may be the replacement...
These will operate on a stand or in a hat, depending.
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I prefer the mk41v for two reasons:
1) They are a little less directional, that is, the patterns is a little wider in the low end.
2) They are much easier to run, both horizontally in a hat, and vertically on a bar.
They sound fantastic, BTW.
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41V if you are going to sometimes run a hat. I run 41s with DPA 4021s and really like the combo. I hope to trade up to the 41Vs at some point to easier run in a hat. I had 4Vs and they were awesome for the hat, unfortunately had to unload them.
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I prefer the mk41v for two reasons:
1) They are a little less directional, that is, the patterns is a little wider in the low end.
2) They are much easier to run, both horizontally in a hat, and vertically on a bar.
They sound fantastic, BTW.
Ditto all that.
I unloaded my 41s for 41vs for distance stea€6h work, and the hat form factor and because I just like the vertical sound a little better. I notice head movement less, and they're smoother to my ears.
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if this should go in a PM, that's cool - but i've often heard the V's are easier to run in a hat, but I'm having trouble picturing why?
once I get that resolved, and i'm sure I will, probably pull the trigger on a set this weekend
Thanks
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I see all the time here folks saying the 4Vs and 41Vs are much easier to run in a hat. I've always run 4s and 41s and I can't picture the advantage of the Vs in a hat either. If anyone can explain it (PM is fine), I would appreciate it as well. I doubt I'd change now since I have everything but I'd like to understand the advantage that the Vs offer.
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PM me your emails, I took pics for someone last week, I'll send them to whoever wants them.
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Personally I prefer the non-V caps
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Personally I prefer the non-V caps
I agree with H20 about this! The NON-Vertical caps sound more natural to me, as well as not having the HF Bump that the 4V has. I just like the small, front address caps, which have a flat response in the mk4 & mk41 and I have no reason to upgrade to the V's, to my ears. I've always thought that the 41V sounded a little drier and has a TAD less lowend, even though the actual capsule is bigger in the V series. It's really just a matter of preference in the end. You'll be happy with ANY Schoeps mics that you buy, so you can't go wrong either way ;) They both sound fantastic! I'd listen to some tapes and see which you prefer. If you do a lot of hat work, the V-Series is definitely appealing! MUCH easier to run in a hat IMO! I only open tape these days, so I have no reason to switch things up personally right now!
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I see all the time here folks saying the 4Vs and 41Vs are much easier to run in a hat. I've always run 4s and 41s and I can't picture the advantage of the Vs in a hat either. If anyone can explain it (PM is fine), I would appreciate it as well. I doubt I'd change now since I have everything but I'd like to understand the advantage that the Vs offer.
+1
It depends on the hat. The way I wear mine the V's won't work as well.
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Personally I prefer the non-V caps
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I too prefer the standard caps as I find the V's to be a little too bright for my taste.
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Reviving an old thread; as it seems to be the most relevant for this.
I just got a brand spanking new matched pair of MK41Vs; and plan to use them for the first time tomorrow night. I've been taping with MK41s for the last few years; 99% >:D in a kangaroo with the mics up in front facing forward.
From what I gather, with the Vs, I should have them sit horizontally with the red dot facing the sound source? So basically, do what I've been doing, except with the mics turned 90 degrees?
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Reviving an old thread; as it seems to be the most relevant for this.
I just got a brand spanking new matched pair of MK41Vs; and plan to use them for the first time tomorrow night. I've been taping with MK41s for the last few years; 99% >:D in a kangaroo with the mics up in front facing forward.
From what I gather, with the Vs, I should have them sit horizontally with the red dot facing the sound source? So basically, do what I've been doing, except with the mics turned 90 degrees?
From my understanding, some people use a din bar and mount the mics backwards with red dots facing forward.
Scott sells a kangol mount which I am probably going to buy next time they offer a discount code: https://www.shapeways.com/product/HUCSCEPET/dina-schoeps-mk41v-nbobs-hat-mount?optionId=64027722
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Scott sells a kangol mount
If the right side of the mount (as viewed in this image) is facing forward, it looks like the red dots would be facing away from the sound source. What am I missing?
(https://images3.sw-cdn.net/product/picture/710x528_21013793_11935468_1687490454_1_0.jpg)
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In the photo above the mics need to be rotated 180 degrees in the mount.
The red dots should face forward.
Similar thread, see the illustration in the first post- https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186491.0
Either of the orientations in that 1st post illustration will work, as the red dots face forward in both cases. Choice between one or the other is mostly about cable management and of course which way the mount is setup to work. Yours will be like the second illustration, which seems most common.
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In the photo above the mics need to be rotated 180 degrees in the mount.
The red dots should face forward.
Similar thread, see the illustration in the first post- https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186491.0
Either of the orientations in that 1st post illustration will work, as the red dots face forward in both cases. Choice between one or the other is mostly about cable management and of course which way the mount is setup to work. Yours will be like the second illustration, which seems most common.
Perfect! Thx Lee.
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Off topic, but somewhat relevant..
IMO, for either the 41 or 41V (or any super/hyper):
From my ear’s perspective.. I ‘think’ that to get the pattern’s full sound, the rear lobe of any super/hyper should not be blocked/baffled if possible. Although there might be situations where that is preferred if there is a lot of noise right behind you or rear reflections or something.
But that rear lobe of the 41’s is magic IMO.
YMMV as it all might be my ears or in my head.
A friend once ran 41V’s vertically, but backwards on a stand (red dots aiming wrong directions). I think that the recording was still listenable, but not what it could have been.
None the less, that’s a sweet mount!
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I ‘think’ that to get the pattern’s full sound, the rear lobe of any super/hyper should not be blocked/baffled
Anything in close proximity to the microphone can effect pattern and response, particularly if its near or blocks the front or rear vents. The larger the object is the greater its influence, and the closer the object is the greater its influence.
Ideally, unless intentionally using a baffle as part of the recording technique, one shouldn't have anything in close proximity to the microphones, but practically we need to mount them somehow, and when worn, a large object in close proximity is impossible to get away from. When head worn, the head may or may not be leveraged as an intentional baffle. It certainly is used intentionally for HRTF "dummy head" like setups. Worn in a hat as discussed above, the arrangement is no longer HTRF dummy head like (both mics are out in front of the baffle, rather than on either side of it), but the head still acts as a baffle to the rear which may provide some useful sensitivity attenuation for sounds arriving from directly behind. In any case, best to avoid blocking the sound path to both the front and rear vents as much as possible.
I've wondered how much of the sound of a supercard is related to the tightness of its pattern and how much is related to its small rear lobe. That would be a good comp to make with a higher-order ambisonic microphone. At a high enough order, one can retain a very similar front pattern to a first-order supercardioid but without any appreciable rear lobe. I'd very much like to hear that. It may be the collective front and back lobe in combination (with inverted polarity) that produces the sound of the supercard that we are familiar with, more than just the 1st order pattern shape.
A friend once ran 41V’s vertically, but backwards on a stand (red dots aiming wrong directions). I think that the recording was still listenable, but not what it could have been.
I run a pair of rear facing DPA supercards as a regular part of my multimicrophone array. Its really interesting to listen to that pair in isolation, and compare it to the isolated forward facing microphones. So much of the sound we end up recording is the diffuse/reverberant sound filling the room, that even intentionally using supercards in that way to maximally reduce the sensitivity of that pair to sound arriving from the front hemisphere doesn't do as much as one might think to "eliminate the sound arriving from the front".
Regardless of how the microphones are oriented, when listened to in isolation we end up getting more similar sounding content in each of them than many folks probably realize.
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I ‘think’ that to get the pattern’s full sound, the rear lobe of any super/hyper should not be blocked/baffled
Anything in close proximity to the microphone can effect pattern and response, particularly if its near or blocks the front or rear vents. The larger the object is the greater its influence, and the closer the object is the greater its influence.
Not any tapers, but lots of people nowadays could put the rear lobe pointing straight into their ears and they'd be just fine. :)
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^ Not sure your meaning there.
What I was attempting to say is that although both can produce an audible effect, blocking the vents (front or sides) will be considerably more egregious to sound quality than the presence of an object in close proximity behind the microphone.
Applied, that means don't worry about your head, but do concerned yourself with maintaining an open sound path to the vents as much as possible.
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^ Not sure your meaning there.
Many people's heads are filled with a vacuum...won't interfere with the rear lobes of mic capsules. I was joking...but maybe being semi-serious. ;)
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That's 14.7 psi worse than an being an airhead! At least around here at sea level.
"So a vacuum headed taper walks into a millibar and says, I'm feeling a bit pressured here.."
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That's 14.7 psi worse than an being an airhead! At least around here at sea level.
"So a vacuum headed taper walks into a millibar and says, I'm feeling a bit pressured here.."
Not related, but I heard a technical nerd joke today that I LOLed at.
The doctor tells a woman she only has six months to live. He advises her to marry a chemist and move to Toledo. She asks if that will help cure her illness. He answers, no but it'll make six months seem like eternity.
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PM me your emails, I took pics for someone last week, I'll send them to whoever wants them.
PM sent
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I see all the time here folks saying the 4Vs and 41Vs are much easier to run in a hat. I've always run 4s and 41s and I can't picture the advantage of the Vs in a hat either. If anyone can explain it (PM is fine), I would appreciate it as well. I doubt I'd change now since I have everything but I'd like to understand the advantage that the Vs offer.
+1
It depends on the hat. The way I wear mine the V's won't work as well.
Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion) just use mesh baseball cap, but would like to know mounting options, thank you
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
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I don't care wearing a Kangol.
I'm there to get the job done, not to look well dressed.
it's a concert, not a fashion show :)
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Will that Shapeways mount work for MK 41s if I spin my Kangol around backwards or is my head in the way then?
I have sewn elastic loops into the Kangol that work OK but it is never really a stereo configuration.
And, I am normally dressed like an odd duckling anyway. I recently went to a show to meet another taper I had never met and as soon as I saw the knobby Kangol I knew he was the right guy. LOL
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
I guess maybe what i meant those Kangols really make me sweat, they don't seem to breathe to well. I just sew elastic bands inside mesh baseball hat in what I hope is favorable configuration
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i was the dude
yes someone make a basic mount for 41
on the brim - i have elastic straps
they sometimes don’t hold 41 in place
thanks to the 3d printer that will make these 41 kangol mount for 41
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
I guess maybe what i meant those Kangols really make me sweat, they don't seem to breathe to well.
i use the breathable one it’s got great vents
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
I guess maybe what i meant those Kangols really make me sweat, they don't seem to breathe to well.
i use the breathable one it’s got great vents
I will have to revisit the Kangol, thank you
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
I guess maybe what i meant those Kangols really make me sweat, they don't seem to breathe to well.
i use the breathable one it’s got great vents
I will have to revisit the Kangol, thank you
Specifically look for the Ventair line.
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Specifically look for the Ventair line.
Pretty sure they come in baseball cap style too, for those that don't want to look like Leo Nocentelli. Those don't have as much room around the rim though.
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I don't care wearing a Kangol.
I'm there to get the job done, not to look well dressed.
it's a concert, not a fashion show :)
Not so much worried about fashion, however the Kangol at times especially in 100 degree weather can look out of place and I don't want to attract undo attention
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
My brother was wearing a Peaky Blinders (newsboy) style hat and I was wearing a Kangol at this show a few years ago. This was UFO's Phil Mogg's reaction to them:
https://youtu.be/dl-yeA332VE?t=3376
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
My brother was wearing a Peaky Blinders (newsboy) style hat and I was wearing a Kangol at this show a few years ago. This was UFO's Phil Mogg's reaction to them:
https://youtu.be/dl-yeA332VE?t=3376
Nice Vid, love his reaction.
do you use the mount for the mics that has recently been in this thread?
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
My brother was wearing a Peaky Blinders (newsboy) style hat and I was wearing a Kangol at this show a few years ago. This was UFO's Phil Mogg's reaction to them:
https://youtu.be/dl-yeA332VE?t=3376
The artist that laughed at me made the same Peaky Blinders reference.
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
My brother was wearing a Peaky Blinders (newsboy) style hat and I was wearing a Kangol at this show a few years ago. This was UFO's Phil Mogg's reaction to them:
https://youtu.be/dl-yeA332VE?t=3376
Nice Vid, love his reaction.
do you use the mount for the mics that has recently been in this thread?
Ordered one last week; estimated ship date Oct 23. Really looking forward to trying it out.
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
My brother was wearing a Peaky Blinders (newsboy) style hat and I was wearing a Kangol at this show a few years ago. This was UFO's Phil Mogg's reaction to them:
https://youtu.be/dl-yeA332VE?t=3376
Nice Vid, love his reaction.
do you use the mount for the mics that has recently been in this thread?
Ordered one last week; estimated ship date Oct 23. Really looking forward to trying it out.
I'd love to get your opinion on it once you try it out. I've gone back and forth on grabbing one.
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
My brother was wearing a Peaky Blinders (newsboy) style hat and I was wearing a Kangol at this show a few years ago. This was UFO's Phil Mogg's reaction to them:
https://youtu.be/dl-yeA332VE?t=3376
Nice Vid, love his reaction.
do you use the mount for the mics that has recently been in this thread?
Ordered one last week; estimated ship date Oct 23. Really looking forward to trying it out.
I'd love to get your opinion on it once you try it out. I've gone back and forth on grabbing one.
^It took a little getting used to, but after using it a half dozen times or, I have come around to really liking the Shapeways mount. The switch coincided with the change to MK41Vs, and I really like the results I'm getting. I can't say how much of the (perceived) improvement is due to the mics, and how much is due mounting them on the Shapeways.
One thing I really like is that I don't worry anymore about the mics moving around. I shoot video down in the front a lot, and thus move around a fair bit and also crane my head around with the camera to follow the action. As long as they are tightly seated in the Shapeways mounts, those 41Vs are locked in place and do not move at all. It's nice not have to worry about them shifting during the show.
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I wear my schoeps mics in a kangol hat.
I put them above my ears. Part of the side vents are blocked this way. Does this affect sound much?
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I wear my schoeps mics in a kangol hat.
I put them above my ears. Part of the side vents are blocked this way. Does this affect sound much?
I can't tell you how much it affects the sound, but that's exactly how I deployed my MK41s; although I tended to push them a little bit more toward the bill. So, they were situated above and a little in front of my ears.
I tended to get pretty good results deploying them this way, and this was in arenas, amphitheaters, big clubs, small clubs, etc.
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Yes, same. Results are really good. Sometimes I run them dina with the kangol backwards. That way the vents are not really blocked. I can't tell I hear a difference. Maybe I should try putting them in front of the hat pointed at stacks, instead of putting them above my ears.
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Yes, Kangol for some reason just looks out of place in florida ( just my opinion)
A Kangol looks out of place everywhere. You have to be willing to make a fashion statement. I had an artist laugh at me the first time he saw me in the hat (taper friendly artist in a non-friendly venue).
My brother was wearing a Peaky Blinders (newsboy) style hat and I was wearing a Kangol at this show a few years ago. This was UFO's Phil Mogg's reaction to them:
https://youtu.be/dl-yeA332VE?t=3376
Nice Vid, love his reaction.
do you use the mount for the mics that has recently been in this thread?
Ordered one last week; estimated ship date Oct 23. Really looking forward to trying it out.
I'd love to get your opinion on it once you try it out. I've gone back and forth on grabbing one.
^It took a little getting used to, but after using it a half dozen times or, I have come around to really liking the Shapeways mount. The switch coincided with the change to MK41Vs, and I really like the results I'm getting. I can't say how much of the (perceived) improvement is due to the mics, and how much is due mounting them on the Shapeways.
One thing I really like is that I don't worry anymore about the mics moving around. I shoot video down in the front a lot, and thus move around a fair bit and also crane my head around with the camera to follow the action. As long as they are tightly seated in the Shapeways mounts, those 41Vs are locked in place and do not move at all. It's nice not have to worry about them shifting during the show.
But with this mount you always wear them dina, right?