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Author Topic: What (if anything) would you do to this recording?  (Read 2508 times)

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Offline acidjack

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What (if anything) would you do to this recording?
« on: July 17, 2009, 10:58:35 AM »
I'm trying to get smarter on how I do EQ - I understand the principles in a very general way and have read the stickies, but I am looking for more targeted advice.  I also want to avoid the instinct to post-process things that don't need it, as every playback system is different.

Nice long sample here: www.acidjack.com/dwsample.mp3

Equipment used: AT U853 cardiods>SPSB-10>R-09HR.  Recorded FOB center about 30' from the stage.  I won't get into details but suffice it to say I was not using a stand and the mics were at about 6'4".  The room is somewhat challenging - it's a very tall (3-level) room that holds maybe 3000 people, and the stacks are basically at eye-level with the second level, curving downward toward the floor.  I find that as a result, the venue tends to yield a muddier sound, and often bassy recordings.  I've tried with hypers (and DPA omnis) as well, and I think this result is actually the best of the three - the hypers don't really help with the muddiness, and although the DPAs produced DPA-quality results, they reproduced the room too much.

Technique and mic choice aside, I want to think about how to post-process, or whether this recording even would benefit from it, other than a normal amplification.  The bass response doesn't strike me as overwhelming, especially on a decent playback system, though again, I am wondering if there is a specific low frequency I could trim to make it a touch less muddy.  I'm also indecisive about the treble.

Anyway, I know there is no silver bullet ever, but if you have specific suggestions of what you think this recording could use, I'd be interested to hear them.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline boojum

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Re: What (if anything) would you do to this recording?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 12:35:58 PM »
I am pretty new at this, too.  What I have learned is the best way to get good sounds is put the mics in the best possible place.  Second is have good mics.  You've got a lousy spot.  It is impossible to fix a bad room.  You can take some of the pain out, but it will always be a bad room.
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Offline GroundHog420

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Re: What (if anything) would you do to this recording?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 09:26:50 PM »
Hey, I just stumbled across this thread (can you call two posts a thread?), and saw no one had gotten back to you about it. I'm checking out your sample, and I would like to get back to you after I listen to the sample a bit and think about what you say you're interests are.

Meanwhile, addressing EQ, I have learned the hard way over the years that the best approach to think ing about EQ is to exercise subtlety and restraint.  Subtract frequencies first, before adding anything. I think that a natural tendency for some is to increase settings, rather than decrease them.

Listen to your recording and think about the one most important thing you think really needs to be corrected. Is too much bass really too much bass, or is it really not enough mids or highs? A lot of folks have decided that if something sounds bottom heavy, they just need to boost the mids and highs a bit to flesh it out a bit. This could be the solution in some instances, but in many cases, it could mean you're just adding unneccesary layers of noise to your recording. Maybe you really want to roll back some of the low-end frequencies a bit, and learn to listen in between each set of frequencies as you go. You will possibly find that all the mids and highs you need are there already, and a few stray low-end frequencies were just masking them.

That's just an example of a way to think about EQ-ing that might be helpful to you. There's a lot more detailed info that I won't bore you with, partly because I'm not very good with the technical lingo - I'm more of a hands-on guy, and I tend to use my ear more than to follow a strict mathematical approach. Although I will say that the guys who follow the technical rules have some excellent knowledge to share as well - I just don't speak that language very well.

Hope any of this is helpful to you!

I'm trying to get smarter on how I do EQ - I understand the principles in a very general way and have read the stickies, but I am looking for more targeted advice.  I also want to avoid the instinct to post-process things that don't need it, as every playback system is different.
< - snip - >
Technique and mic choice aside, I want to think about how to post-process, or whether this recording even would benefit from it, other than a normal amplification.  The bass response doesn't strike me as overwhelming, especially on a decent playback system, though again, I am wondering if there is a specific low frequency I could trim to make it a touch less muddy.  I'm also indecisive about the treble.

Anyway, I know there is no silver bullet ever, but if you have specific suggestions of what you think this recording could use, I'd be interested to hear them.
Hey man, that common sense shit won't fly around here, we're from Portland, we're edgy & different or something  ???
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Offline acidjack

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Re: What (if anything) would you do to this recording?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 01:15:09 PM »
Thanks for your reply to a (pretty) old post - it is appreciated.

I think the principles you mention below are absolutely right.  From what I've found, it is very hard to edit a recording in a way that pleases everyone, because everyone listens on something different.  If you have a subwoofer, for instance, I would bet your system handles bass very differently than say, a typical car system that doesn't have a subwoofer.

I've found - with the recording in question and many others - that the best thing to do is generally to do as little as possible.  I've found that as I get to know my mics, there are EQ settings that can remove some sounds of a mic that I don't like (for example, I find that the AT U853 mics need a slight tweak upward in the high frequencies) but generally, the best thing is to let the mics and the recording speak for themselves. 

I think with this sample, I tweaked up the highs over 10,000Hz by maybe 3dB and maybe cut the sub-100Hz frequencies by about the same (which I find is often what I end up doing with the AT U853 mics).  Curious to hear your thoughts on it, though.

Hey, I just stumbled across this thread (can you call two posts a thread?), and saw no one had gotten back to you about it. I'm checking out your sample, and I would like to get back to you after I listen to the sample a bit and think about what you say you're interests are.

Meanwhile, addressing EQ, I have learned the hard way over the years that the best approach to think ing about EQ is to exercise subtlety and restraint.  Subtract frequencies first, before adding anything. I think that a natural tendency for some is to increase settings, rather than decrease them.

Listen to your recording and think about the one most important thing you think really needs to be corrected. Is too much bass really too much bass, or is it really not enough mids or highs? A lot of folks have decided that if something sounds bottom heavy, they just need to boost the mids and highs a bit to flesh it out a bit. This could be the solution in some instances, but in many cases, it could mean you're just adding unneccesary layers of noise to your recording. Maybe you really want to roll back some of the low-end frequencies a bit, and learn to listen in between each set of frequencies as you go. You will possibly find that all the mids and highs you need are there already, and a few stray low-end frequencies were just masking them.

That's just an example of a way to think about EQ-ing that might be helpful to you. There's a lot more detailed info that I won't bore you with, partly because I'm not very good with the technical lingo - I'm more of a hands-on guy, and I tend to use my ear more than to follow a strict mathematical approach. Although I will say that the guys who follow the technical rules have some excellent knowledge to share as well - I just don't speak that language very well.

Hope any of this is helpful to you!

I'm trying to get smarter on how I do EQ - I understand the principles in a very general way and have read the stickies, but I am looking for more targeted advice.  I also want to avoid the instinct to post-process things that don't need it, as every playback system is different.
< - snip - >
Technique and mic choice aside, I want to think about how to post-process, or whether this recording even would benefit from it, other than a normal amplification.  The bass response doesn't strike me as overwhelming, especially on a decent playback system, though again, I am wondering if there is a specific low frequency I could trim to make it a touch less muddy.  I'm also indecisive about the treble.

Anyway, I know there is no silver bullet ever, but if you have specific suggestions of what you think this recording could use, I'd be interested to hear them.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Scooter123

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Re: What (if anything) would you do to this recording?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2009, 06:45:14 PM »
Very bassy.  I start at a 60htz highpass and if that didn't work, I'd increase in 10htz increments to a maximumm of 80-90.  I might tweek the highs ever so much, but it would be hard to tell.  The more I process live music, the less I want to fuck with it, other than a basic 60htz high pass and some compression and volume boost. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

 

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