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Author Topic: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions  (Read 5492 times)

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Offline baustin

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Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« on: February 21, 2010, 02:18:13 PM »
Still very new to this video thing. I've really started to dabble over the last 2 weeks or so.

I'm using a Sony HDR-SR1 and editing in Sony Vegas 9. It would seem as if the camera shoots in AVCHD format at 1440 x 1080i 60i, 16:9, 29.970. Again, I'm very new to the game, so I don't actually know what info is pertinent here.

I can keep the video in full HD format (1440 x 1080i), or I can down sample. What "frame size" can I go to from here? 720 x 480i? Should I (can I) convert to, say for example, 1280 x 720p (I'll be watching on TV's with full 1080p)?

In all honesty, I don't full understand what 1440 x 1080i means... Is 1440 the width x 1080i the height? I've been reading what I can, but quickly find myself getting lost with technical that I'm very unfamiliar with.


Offline Gordon

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2010, 04:16:38 PM »
you know I know nothing about HD footage but unless you have a blueray burner the end result is gonna need to be 720 x 480 for sd dvd.
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Offline jonicont

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2010, 07:54:17 AM »
1440 x 1080 AVCHD can be burned to a regular dvd, but you still need a Blu-ray player to view it.
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Offline Visionair

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 01:03:02 AM »
Just like the guys above said.
If you want to burn this on a regular dvd you should render to 720x480 if you're NTSC located.

In case of Vegas. If you intend to build a dvd with the software that comes along with Vegas (DVD architect) try rendering as DVD NTSC and then click custom and under aspect ratio choose 16:9.

DVD architect prefers separate vid and audio streams I guess, but since you are fairly new, maybe try the easy way first.

Good luck

Offline baustin

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 12:18:20 PM »
Things are slowly starting to make a bit of sense...

I was wondering how you get a 16:9 aspect from a 1440 x 1080 frame size. It would seem as if it has to do with the shape of the pixel (ie 1920 x 1080 has square pixels whereas 1440 x 1080 has pixels with a 1.33 ratio). Now that I know this, is there any advantage to resizing to 1920 x 1080 before going down to 720 x 480, or should I trust the algorithms in Vegas (I would assume the software was built with their cameras in mind). I would also assume this step will be more important if I'm shooting with 2+ cameras that have different frame sizes (ie - I would want to get the film in the same format for mixing).


In case of Vegas. If you intend to build a dvd with the software that comes along with Vegas (DVD architect) try rendering as DVD NTSC and then click custom and under aspect ratio choose 16:9.


I've also been wondering about this... Are there any advantages to selecting DVD NTSC (which defaults to 4:3) then customizing it to 16:9 versus selecting DVD NTSC Widescreen which defaults to 16:9.

Quote

DVD architect prefers separate vid and audio streams I guess, but since you are fairly new, maybe try the easy way first.

Good luck

OK. So Vegas gives me the option to include audio as well as preserve DVD Architect markers when rendering. I've been doing both, so my output from Vegas is a single MPEG2 file that includes audio. Should I be rendering the 2 files separately? Should I be going with an MPEG2 minus audio and a 16/48 WAV versus an MPEG2 that includes audio?

On that same line, I've read that 16/48 audio is acceptable for DVD, however when I open the MPEG2 (with audio) file in DVD Architect, it says that it will need to process the audio because its not in an acceptable format.

Offline Visionair

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 02:54:02 PM »
The advantage of DVD NTSC and then customizing to 16:9 is that it is the easy way. There are several other options. You could choose the widscreen template immediatly. By default it will not include the audio file but once again you can customize via one of the tabs and then checking "include audiofile".
Or you could do it like you will end up eventually.
Choose the widescreen template and don't include the audio.
Once rendered, choose the same template but now exclude the vid, so you render audio only.
This is how it DVDA (or encore) would like to work.
Two separate files. The advantage of that is while building your dvd folder (video_ts) DVDA (or encore) doesn't have to demux first and mux again later on.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 08:02:11 PM »
16:9 vs 4:3 is what it's shot in.  you do not set that or change it in vegas.  that is determined by the camera.
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Offline Visionair

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 05:15:43 AM »
While rendering you still have to "tell" Vegas in what format it should render. If you don't do this and the 4:3 box is checked it will render to 4:3.

It's also important to set the project properties properly. Eg. that is when you capture SD footage that has been shot in 16:9 you have to set the (pixel) aspect ratio properly.

Offline Gordon

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 01:06:10 PM »
true.  I set all new projects to 16:9 and render as 16:9.  that didn't seem like what was being asked.
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Offline rsimms3

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2010, 09:55:13 PM »
Looks like you are putting the cart before the horse.
1. What do you want to do with the footage you have?  Send it to grandma to watch on her DVD player?  Play over a media server to your HDTV?  Burn a Blu-Ray?  If you don't know what you want to do, you can't get there.
2. 1440x1080 - is an anamorphic widescreen  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Specifications
3. The best cutter for native AVCHD is probably the latest version of VideoRedoPlus with h.264 cutting as AVCHD is h.264 file in a .TS container. 
4. Setup your template and render 16x9 whatever final resolution you go with.
5. Read, read, read - www.videohelp.com
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Offline baustin

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2010, 11:51:55 PM »
Looks like you are putting the cart before the horse.
1. What do you want to do with the footage you have?  Send it to grandma to watch on her DVD player?  Play over a media server to your HDTV?  Burn a Blu-Ray?  If you don't know what you
want to do, you can't get there.

seed to the internet. will probably do a 720 x 480 SD and maybe a HD version in an MKV folder

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2. 1440x1080 - is an anamorphic widescreen  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Specifications

got that. anamorphic meaning a "rectangular" 1.333 ratio pixel. correct? vegas has a few templates for rendering which i am becoming familiar with

Quote
3. The best cutter for native AVCHD is probably the latest version of VideoRedoPlus with h.264 cutting as AVCHD is h.264 file in a .TS container. 

i keep hearing this (avchd being a hard format to edit). i don't seem to have a problem doing simple audio/video synching in vegas 9. maybe i'm doing this wrong, but basically i've been dragging the *.mts files from the camera's internal harddrive onto my computer harddrive. then i simply open the *.mts files in vegas or premiere rather than importing or capturing. is this wrong?

ps, what do you mean by cutting? currently i'm strictly doing single camera concert video (ie - one long take, no multi angle/camera stuff)

Quote
4. Setup your template and render 16x9 whatever final resolution you go with.

on it

Quote
5. Read, read, read - www.videohelp.com

reading everything i can

Offline rsimms3

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Re: Downsampling from 1440 x 1080i 60i Questions
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2010, 12:38:25 PM »
I use a Sanyo HD1000 camera which uses a weird h.264 version from Sanyo so I have to convert it to MPEG before I can handle it in Vegas.  If you can play the file and sync in Vegas, I would stick with it.  The next question is, will Vegas render your file only encoding the changes you make?  I am not familiar with the output codecs of Vegas.  If I load an MPEG that is already in the same format as one of their templates I am using, it will only encode the portions I change - fade the video at the beginning, end, add overlays, etc.  Dragging the file to your hard drive and opening should be fine, to me that's the joy of the media.  Your ultimate goal is to import the original, edit and do all your work in the original format or closest format possible, and then export to the same format for DVD or MKV creation.  There are better MPEG Encoders than Vegas.  I use TMPGEnc DVD Author 3 to go from files rendered in HDV in Vegas to DVD with menus.

Example where I created fades, added overlay, mixed cam/external audio, synced audio, and exported to MTS.  Then I uploaded straight to YouTube -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N75LCXvC9MA
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