Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested  (Read 10732 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AB52

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« on: February 05, 2011, 12:04:13 PM »
I need a nature recording and band recording portable field recorder.  I currently have a mixpre for sale on ebay as I was going to get a Sound Devices 722.  Would I be better off for the money (and still have pro audio sound), by keeping the mixpre and matching it with a Sony D50 or Fostex FRle or something else?

What is the real advantage of the SD 722, other than it is all in one unit and it can record to hard drive and flash at the same time.

Another thing - I must be able to have continuous recording beyond any 2gb limit.

THANKS.

Offline taperj

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 917
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 12:46:41 PM »
 First off, there's definitely no reason why you couldn't use your mixpre with another recorder for live and nature recording. My thoughts on that for nature recording are that a rig would be harder to use with a separate recorder and preamp. One big advantage of the all-in-one unit would be less fussing with levels to make the recorder and preamp get in the sweet spot you want it to be in, especially with "in the wild" conditions where you have wind gusts etc to react to(I just went out 2 days ago in the Chicago blizzard and tried taping some thunder with heavy winds and spent way too much time trying to get the recorder and pre where it needed to be, not to mention in the bad weather messing with the LS-10 was a real pain). A 722(or 702 for that matter) is simple and effective in this regard, with one place to adjust your levels, not to mention that the recorder is bombproof for all terrain recording and built to be accessed from the front so it's very easily put into a harness that's manageable and weatherproof while climbing, hiking, whatever. One other thing I would say is that the A>D is probably better in the 702/722 than the Sony or the Fostex(I've never used a FR2LE so please forgive me if my assumption is incorrect on this). The preamp in the 722/702 is also a step up from the mixpre according to sound devices. I run a mixpre and like the character of it, I personally wouldn't say that the 7xx's necessarily sound better, I would say they sound different.
 If you are comfortable running flash media and don't need a harddrive, you could easily get away with a 702 here and save some $$. The 722 is definitely a nice choice as well for the extra $$ and would take you far.
 Hopefully this helps some.
 J

Rig: Neumann skm184 or Neumann skm140 > Sound Devices Mixpre > Olympus LS-10 or Korg MR-1

Just ask the axis, he knows everything.

Offline page

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Gender: Male
  • #TeamRetired
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 01:19:03 PM »
What is the real advantage of the SD 722, other than it is all in one unit and it can record to hard drive and flash at the same time.

for concert recording, it's a matter of preference, but where low level noise is concerned such as for nature recording, Sound Devices recommends their 7 series over any of their mixers as the 7 series have lower noise floors to the order of almost 10db. There was a KB article over on their site about it that I came across while looking for something else.

Within the 7 series, the 7X2/744 have a noise floor that is higher than the 788 which has a different input signal chain (again, referencing their advice articles), so if low level noise is *really* an issue, pick the 788 over the others, otherwise, the 7 series in general will serve you better. Whether the unit is worth the cost is a personal decision, but that's how SD sees it. Best of luck.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Online aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3861
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 01:19:46 PM »
Another thing - I must be able to have continuous recording beyond any 2gb limit.

I think only a few recorders allow .wav files larger than 2 GB (PMD620 and PMD661, for example), and those max out at 4 GB (the .wav format maximum).  Most recorders automatically start a new file at 2GB, but that is (almost) always seemless when two files are pasted together...

Offline taperj

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 917
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 01:39:53 PM »
Within the 7 series, the 7X2/744 have a noise floor that is higher than the 788 which has a different input signal chain (again, referencing their advice articles), so if low level noise is *really* an issue, pick the 788 over the others, otherwise, the 7 series in general will serve you better. Whether the unit is worth the cost is a personal decision, but that's how SD sees it. Best of luck.

Good point on the noise floor page, that's something that I would check before committing to using the mixpre as well. I am guessing it's not as low as any of the 7xx series.
Rig: Neumann skm184 or Neumann skm140 > Sound Devices Mixpre > Olympus LS-10 or Korg MR-1

Just ask the axis, he knows everything.

Offline page

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Gender: Male
  • #TeamRetired
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 01:56:07 PM »
Within the 7 series, the 7X2/744 have a noise floor that is higher than the 788 which has a different input signal chain (again, referencing their advice articles), so if low level noise is *really* an issue, pick the 788 over the others, otherwise, the 7 series in general will serve you better. Whether the unit is worth the cost is a personal decision, but that's how SD sees it. Best of luck.

Good point on the noise floor page, that's something that I would check before committing to using the mixpre as well. I am guessing it's not as low as any of the 7xx series.

na, the 552 isn't even as low as the 722.

found the article.

comping specs, the mixpre has a equivilent input noise threshold that is about 4db less than the 7 series (126db vs 130db), and the A/D of the 7 series is about 11db better than the 552's (114db vs 103db). The mixpre and 7 series units also share a 4db split in favor of the 722 in regards to dynamic range (110 vs 114). The 788 gains another 9db of dynamic range at the A/D stage vs the 722.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline AB52

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2011, 08:31:25 PM »
Lots of good points.  My summary:
SD 7 series beats the mixpre/cheaper recorder combo for:
1.  Lower noise floor.
2.  Most likely better AD/DA converters
3.  A lot easier to calibrate outdoors having one unit instead of two.

So that takes care of it.  My mixpre is on ebay!

THANKS,
AB

Offline su6oxone

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2761
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2011, 09:16:21 PM »
Plus the 7xx lasts many hours with the Sony L-series batteries.  The 4400mAh one doesn't stick out too much and lasts for a good six hours powering Schoeps MK4/CMC6 or CCMs.  Better than AAx2 or using an external power supply with the MixPre.

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3699
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 10:32:07 PM »
The mixpre has been used in nature recordings many many times by all kinds of people with all kinds of recording gear. Don't worry, I'm not knocking the 722 since its a very nice recorder but you already have the mixpre. Doesn't the noise of the microphones also make a difference? What kind of microphones are you going to be paring it with?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 10:59:04 PM by rastasean »
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline AB52

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 11:10:22 PM »
Thanks for the important point.

I am either going to be using a pair of Beyerdynamc MC950s, DPA 4011s or Sennheiser 8020 (quiet omnis) depending on the circumstance.

You make a good point about the mic noise.  but all noise adds up.  Is it cost effective?  Perhaps not.  Pehaps the issue of coordinating two different units is the more serious concern and even that can be resolved with a little patience.  Thanks for sticking up for the mixpre.  I had tested it with a PCM-D1 for a couple of minutes (the only use I have put it to, to make sure it worked) - and I thought it sounded fantastic and quiet - that was with the MC950s.
As you may tell from my other thread I started, I am also considering whether to invest in two chanels or as much as 8.  (not for nature recording - but for other live recording needs.) 
THANKS,
AB


The mixpre has been used in nature recordings many many times by all kinds of people with all kinds of recording gear. Don't worry, I'm not knocking the 722 since its a very nice recorder but you already have the mixpre. Doesn't the noise of the microphones also make a difference? What kind of microphones are you going to be paring it with?

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40690
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
    • MediaFire Recordings
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 11:54:02 PM »
IMO the 7xx sounds better than the mixpre's pre's, but theyre just diff. The mixpre has a warmer punchier sound while the 7xx have a more clean and transparent and in-your-face sound, at least IMO :)

Either way you'll be happy. I vote for the 7xx, because its such a SIMPLE DECK to run. I set my levels in the 1st 5 mins of the show and then zip my bag up....
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline su6oxone

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2761
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 12:06:47 AM »
I set my levels in the 1st 5 mins of the show and then zip my bag up....

When I had my 702 I never needed to set levels.  Or rather, I pre-set levels for every show.  I used low-sensitivity setting, line-in w/P48, and gain at max (+18dB or so) and hit record before the show started.  Every show I recorded like that (at least 30 or so) turned out great because the noise floor on the 702 is so low, that with 24 bit recording there was never anything close to hiss after normalizing to 0dB (well, actually -0.2dB).  Sometimes, like for Dave Matthews, I set up my stand and gear at the SBD cage, hit record before the opening act, went to my seat for the show, then came back after the end to pick up the gear... and got a great recording with a very low noise floor.  I miss the simplicity of it all back then.  8)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 12:08:46 AM by su6oxone »

Offline page

  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8388
  • Gender: Male
  • #TeamRetired
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 12:54:04 AM »
Thanks for the important point.

I am either going to be using a pair of Beyerdynamc MC950s, DPA 4011s or Sennheiser 8020 (quiet omnis) depending on the circumstance.

You make a good point about the mic noise.  but all noise adds up.  Is it cost effective?  Perhaps not.  Pehaps the issue of coordinating two different units is the more serious concern and even that can be resolved with a little patience.  Thanks for sticking up for the mixpre.  I had tested it with a PCM-D1 for a couple of minutes (the only use I have put it to, to make sure it worked) - and I thought it sounded fantastic and quiet - that was with the MC950s.
As you may tell from my other thread I started, I am also considering whether to invest in two chanels or as much as 8.  (not for nature recording - but for other live recording needs.) 
THANKS,
AB

Couple of things, the DPAs (IMHO) will render a better nature recording. They are priced accordingly as well, but all costs being equal I think they'll do better. Second, the 950s have an output that is roughly 8-10db hotter than the DPAs, but also has a slightly higher self-noise compared to other mics that we use here (inc the DPAs). They seemed to be designed for loud sources is what I'm getting at, which for concert recording or some eng stuff is great.

Can you turn out a great nature recording with the 950s, the mixpre, and a PCM-D50/M10? Sure, undoubtably, and that's why I tried to preface my remarks above as such, it's a "how much do you want to spend and how critical is this" type game. If I were doing nature recording, and I was all hard core about doing the best possible job, I'd buy a set of DPAs to pair with my 722, but neither are necessary for the job. best of luck.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline AB52

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 156
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 11:33:26 AM »
It is an interesting issue as to when the purchase of equipment for something professional has diminishing returns - assumie one does care about what they spend.  I already have DPA 4011s.   I already have the mixpre (which I have for sale here and on ebay - but I am tempted to keep)
Thanks.

Offline Todd R

  • Over/Under on next gear purchase: 2 months
  • Trade Count: (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4901
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mixpre and ? or sound devices 722 - advice requested
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2011, 12:53:19 PM »
Another option is to get the new Sound Devices USBPre 2 which can act as a standalone (no computer needed) preamp+AD.  Feed it a digital signal to a Sony D50, and at that point, the D50 is just capturing the bits from the USBPre 2.  The D50 is a nice unit, and I find it to be very reliable and robust.

The USBPre 2 supposedly has the exact same A/D stage as the 722/702 and the analog stage/preamp is supposed to be very, very similar and use the same architecture as the 722/702.  A pairing of the USBPre 2 and the D50 (digital in) should be very close to the sound of the 722/702, at a lower cost.

BTW, the USBPre 2 is going to be much closer in sound to the 722 than the mixpre.  The USBPre has pretty much the same preamp architecture as the 722, whereas the mixpre is a transformer based preamp, so it isn't going to have the same sound as the 722.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.085 seconds with 39 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF