Topic: PMD 661 MKll

[OOK]

I just saw this... not sure if it is out there yet.

http://usa.d-mpro.com/us/denon/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AudioRecordingandPlayback&SubCatId=HandheldandPortableRecorders&ProductId=PMD661MKIIHandheldSolidStateRecorder

Peace OOK

[noahbickart]

Looks like the new features are:

Card check compatibility feature - New!
Passcode protection for the device​ - New!
Password protected file encryption - New!
Linear style Retake record function - New!

Not sure how much any of this helps for what we do.

[fmaderjr]

Looks like the new features are:

Card check compatibility feature - New!
Passcode protection for the device​ - New!
Password protected file encryption - New!
Linear style Retake record function - New!

Not sure how much any of this helps for what we do.

This is very puzzling. Looks like just a simple firmware update for the standard PMD-661, but I can't find where Marantz posts firmware updates for the recorder to check on this.

The recorder looks exactly the same (and is not marked MKii) and the added features could have been added through a firmware update, I think.

I don't need or care about the new features either, but I'm wondering if this is simply the original recorder with a preinstalled firmware update.

[ashevillain]

The recorder looks exactly the same (and is not marked MKii)

Look a bit closer. It definitely says MKII.

[jbell]

Doesn't seem like muck of an upgrade!  Maybe the price of the original 661 will drop I've been wanting to pic up a deck with a digital in.   Have been looking at getting another D50 or a 661

[fmaderjr]

The recorder looks exactly the same (and is not marked MKii)

Look a bit closer. It definitely says MKII.

Ooop!....Still it does look like the same machine & seems like they could have done it with a firmware update. I'd really like to know why they couldn't have done that or if they did it hoping some PMD-661 owners would buy the new machine for the additional features. I Hope that's not the case because I've always had a good opinion of Marantz.

[fmaderjr]

Doesn't seem like much of an upgrade!  Maybe the price of the original 661 will drop I've been wanting to pic up a deck with a digital in.   

The price of the original is dropping like a rock at Full Compass. It's $10 less than they sell the MKII for. Maybe that confirms how valuable the upgrade is.....

I'm still wondering if this is simply the original recorder (with MKII added after the PMD661) & with a preinstalled firmware update that is not made available to PMD661 owners.

[DigiGal]

Looks like the new features are:

Card check compatibility feature - New!
Passcode protection for the device​ - New!
Password protected file encryption - New!
Linear style Retake record function - New!

Not sure how much any of this helps for what we do.

This is very puzzling. Looks like just a simple firmware update for the standard PMD-661, but I can't find where Marantz posts firmware updates for the recorder to check on this.

The recorder looks exactly the same (and is not marked MKii) and the added features could have been added through a firmware update, I think.

I don't need or care about the new features either, but I'm wondering if this is simply the original recorder with a preinstalled firmware update.

Firmware updates have required a password for a while now, Marantz has moved them here . . .  http://usa.d-mpro.com/us/software/Pages/Login.aspx?SubSite=denon
 
The MkII moniker just seems like a marketing ploy to refresh the product since it has been out for a while and new ones have been released by competition quite regularly.  Marantz carried and maybe still does the PMD660's, years past when they should have discontinued them, I have finally seen closeout sales on 660's this year.

D&M Holdings (Denon & Marantz) also owned McIntosh Labs, but sold McIntosh Labs a couple of weeks ago to an Italian Company -->> http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=158613.0

Speculation - there may be more changes, restructuring, and product juggling ahead like moving deck chairs around to prevent the ship from sinking.

[NOLAfishwater]

Totally underwhelmed by this recorder. I have not been a fan of the form factor if 660 and 661. Seems likop.e they designed them to be placed on a table top.

[kenyee]

The price of the original is dropping like a rock at Full Compass. It's $10 less than they sell the MKII for. Maybe that confirms how valuable the upgrade is.....

LOL

They should have modified the form factor or made it act like a USB mike.
I wish Zoom would come out w/ their next version of the H4N instead...

[dream]

I downloaded pmd661-va-203.zip some weeks ago from a Marantz web site, but haven't installed and checked if the new features of the MKII are included for the 'old' model.
The firmware is somewhere here: http://www.d-mpro.com/Pages/D-MProfessional.htm

[DigiGal]

I downloaded pmd661-va-203.zip some weeks ago from a Marantz web site, but haven't installed and checked if the new features of the MKII are included for the 'old' model.
The firmware is somewhere here: http://www.d-mpro.com/Pages/D-MProfessional.htm

Here it is again firmware updates have required a password for a while now, Marantz has moved them here . . .  http://usa.d-mpro.com/us/software/Pages/Login.aspx?SubSite=denon

The latest update is still v2.03 6/17/2011

[fmaderjr]

I downloaded pmd661-va-203.zip some weeks ago from a Marantz web site, but haven't installed and checked if the new features of the MKII are included for the 'old' model.

No, the only feature 2.03 adds is expanded SD card compatibility.

[DigiGal]

I downloaded pmd661-va-203.zip some weeks ago from a Marantz web site, but haven't installed and checked if the new features of the MKII are included for the 'old' model.
The firmware is somewhere here: http://www.d-mpro.com/Pages/D-MProfessional.htm

Here it is again firmware updates have required a password for a while now, Marantz has moved them here . . .  http://usa.d-mpro.com/us/software/Pages/Login.aspx?SubSite=denon

The latest update is still v2.03 6/17/2011

I downloaded pmd661-va-203.zip some weeks ago from a Marantz web site, but haven't installed and checked if the new features of the MKII are included for the 'old' model.

No, the only feature 2.03 adds is expanded SD card compatibility.

This 2011 firmware contains the following...

PMD661 vA2.03 Firmware Details:
1.   Expanded SD card compatibility.

Previous firmware versions resolved issues below:
1.   By using pitch control, the unit locks up at audio files recorded at 24 bit 96 kHz.
2.   EDL marks corrupt file date created properties.
3.   When unit is restored after abnormal termination, data's chunk might not be correct.
4.   Malfunction might occur when using an SD card that is formatted by PMD661 in other equipment.

[rastasean]

wow, this is really underwhelming. Its hard to imagine a restructuring company would want to create a new identical recorder and have it sell for nearly what the already existing recorder sold for, but maybe they have a marketing strategy at play which may raise capital for some new product--I have no idea, really.

[fmaderjr]

Yeah, I still think they just did a firmware update to the old recorder & are not letting the owners of the original PMD-661 access it, although DigiGal says she doesn't think the changes could be done by firmware update and she's way more technically knowledgeable than I am. It's just that the 4 changes don't seem like any big deal at all & I don't understand why it couldn't just be a firmware update.

[aaronji]

Looks like the PMD620 is getting a similar update (http://usa.d-mpro.com/us/denon/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=AudioRecordingandPlayback&SubCatId=HandheldandPortableRecorders&ProductId=PMD620MKII).  The same four things as listed for the PMD661 MKII.  Plus a bit of a face-lift (black instead of silver).  The frequency response spec is a little different; maybe that's reason to hope for some internal changes...

It seems like they are emphasizing law enforcement.  I don't recall that in the past and would be a good reason for the added security features.

[flintstone]

"Seems like they designed them to be placed on a table top. "

And also to be carried on a shoulder strap.  When carried in that manner, the XLR inputs hang down, and the digital meters point up so the operator can see them.  The "transport" controls are a bit difficult to use in this position since the operator can't see them at a glance. 

I think Marantz needs to improve the power consumption of the 661.  Using 4 AA cells to record for 5 hours is so 2002. 

[datbrad]

I wished they had done something about the gain knob. One like the 660 would be easier to deal with than what is on the 661 now.

[Colin Liston]

There is a "new" PMd 620mkii out as well

[DigiGal]

I e-mailed Marantz Professional tech support this afternoon to find out if/when they will be able to supply a firmware update with the features of PMD661MKII.  No response as yet, I'll relay the info if they respond.

I'm basically happy with the unit as it is for what it is, but am looking to switch over to Sound Devices at some point.  Yes, 661's and 661MKII's form factor is essentially a desk top/shoulder type design as are so many other manufacturers offerings.  It can be an awkward layout but it is workable.  If that layout absolutely doesn't work for you they do offer PMD671 which has a different form factor, but they do not offer a model with more tracks.

[dream]

I'm basically happy with the unit as it is for what it is, but am looking to switch over to Sound Devices at some point.  Yes, 661's and 661MKII's form factor is essentially a desk top/shoulder type design as are so many other manufacturers offerings.  It can be an awkward layout but it is workable. 

I have a Sound Devices 744T and some other recorders. The 661 is IMO a very good addition to a Sound Devices when a SD is overkill but a little Zoom or alike too less quality. The 661 sits right in the middle for me. With its digital input I can use high quality add ons if necessary. Handling is nice and easy to, build quality is quite good. I never understood why this recorder has not a better reputation.

[Napo]

I'm basically happy with the unit as it is for what it is, but am looking to switch over to Sound Devices at some point.  Yes, 661's and 661MKII's form factor is essentially a desk top/shoulder type design as are so many other manufacturers offerings.  It can be an awkward layout but it is workable. 

I have a Sound Devices 744T and some other recorders. The 661 is IMO a very good addition to a Sound Devices when a SD is overkill but a little Zoom or alike too less quality. The 661 sits right in the middle for me. With its digital input I can use high quality add ons if necessary. Handling is nice and easy to, build quality is quite good. I never understood why this recorder has not a better reputation.

dream,

your point is interesting to me as I am about to go for either a SD or a PMD661 OADE FET modded . Where is the diiference in your view: A/D, preamp, quality of sound, sturdeness, ec.
Can others please add their views on this comparison to help me in my choice?

Mauro from Italy

[dream]

I'm basically happy with the unit as it is for what it is, but am looking to switch over to Sound Devices at some point.  Yes, 661's and 661MKII's form factor is essentially a desk top/shoulder type design as are so many other manufacturers offerings.  It can be an awkward layout but it is workable. 

I have a Sound Devices 744T and some other recorders. The 661 is IMO a very good addition to a Sound Devices when a SD is overkill but a little Zoom or alike too less quality. The 661 sits right in the middle for me. With its digital input I can use high quality add ons if necessary. Handling is nice and easy to, build quality is quite good. I never understood why this recorder has not a better reputation.

dream,

your point is interesting to me as I am about to go for either a SD or a PMD661 OADE FET modded . Where is the diiference in your view: A/D, preamp, quality of sound, sturdeness, ec.
Can others please add their views on this comparison to help me in my choice?

Mauro from Italy

The 661 is NOT a substitute for a Sound Devices, it's for me an add on (as I wrote). There is no contest - the 744T is a first class machine, in comparison the 661 is a prosumer machine. I made some good recordings (sampling) with the 661 A/D (not modified) but usually I use digital microphones and therefore the digital coaxial input is used. Digital the sound quality is the same as with the 744T of course ... For A/D and preamp I prefer the SD and the V3 from Grace Design. The 661 is a good all round package for a modest price.

[thunderbolt]

Quote from: dream on Today at 09:17:38 AM
I have a Sound Devices 744T and some other recorders. The 661 is IMO a very good addition to a Sound Devices when a SD is overkill but a little Zoom or alike too less quality. The 661 sits right in the middle for me. With its digital input I can use high quality add ons if necessary. Handling is nice and easy to, build quality is quite good. I never understood why this recorder has not a better reputation.



We have the same gear, and these are my thoughts exactly.

[DigiGal]

I'm basically happy with the unit as it is for what it is, but am looking to switch over to Sound Devices at some point.  Yes, 661's and 661MKII's form factor is essentially a desk top/shoulder type design as are so many other manufacturers offerings.  It can be an awkward layout but it is workable. 

I have a Sound Devices 744T and some other recorders. The 661 is IMO a very good addition to a Sound Devices when a SD is overkill but a little Zoom or alike too less quality. The 661 sits right in the middle for me. With its digital input I can use high quality add ons if necessary. Handling is nice and easy to, build quality is quite good. I never understood why this recorder has not a better reputation.

dream,

your point is interesting to me as I am about to go for either a SD or a PMD661 OADE FET modded . Where is the diiference in your view: A/D, preamp, quality of sound, sturdeness, ec.
Can others please add their views on this comparison to help me in my choice?

Mauro from Italy

Mauro,

I have a stock PMD661, added a SD MixPre-D to feed it digitally which improves s/n ratio and provides an excellent headphone amp.  I plan to add a SD 744t down the line, I like this incremental solution which helps spread out the cost and ultimately allows more flexibility.  I'd keep the PMD661 and MixPre-D when adding a 744t because the MixPre-D can be used for the 744t's digital inputs and the recording options are nice to have depending on the situation. 

Some people 'dis on the PMD661 and Sound Devices 7xx series so ymmv but it works for me.

Here is photo showing how I run the MixPre-D with the PMD661, which makes for a compact rig.


Oh, I'm still waiting to hear back from Marantz support about when/if the MKII features can be added by a firmware update to PMD661.  Maybe some one else wants to inquire with them too in case they overlooked my message.  It can take a while to hear back from manufacturers sometimes but they may be ignoring my question so it wouldn't hurt if more people ask.

[Napo]

DigiGal,

SIMPLY FANTASTIC!

[rastasean]

Oh, I'm still waiting to hear back from Marantz support about when/if the MKII features can be added by a firmware update to PMD661.  Maybe some one else wants to inquire with them too in case they overlooked my message.  It can take a while to hear back from manufacturers sometimes but they may be ignoring my question so it wouldn't hurt if more people ask.

DigiGal,

Nice setup.

What's the address you contacted Marantz at?

[DigiGal]

DigiGal,

Nice setup.

Thanks, I hope to shoot and post some detailed pictures sometime showing how it all goes together.  Basically that rig consists of MixPre-D digitally feeding the PMD661 and PMD661 RCA outputs feed the return signal on the MixPre-D.  Both units are powered off one Tekkeon MP3450 that sits below the MixPre-D in the case.

What's the address you contacted Marantz at?

Just checked my sent messages and it wasn't there so I definitely contacted them this time through the form at -->> http://usa.d-mpro.com/us/contact/pages/contactus.aspx

I have contacted them in the past at this address though -->>  techsupport@d-mpro.com

Another request could be helpful.

[DigiGal]

Got an answer on this...

The PMD661MKII is a separate model from the PMD661.  Version 2.03 is the latest firmware for the PMD661.  There are no plans to release a new firmware version for the PMD661 that includes the new features present on the PMD661MKII.

TECHNICAL SUPPORT
D&M Professional
1100 Maplewood Drive
Itasca, IL 60143

[fmaderjr]

Got an answer on this...

The PMD661MKII is a separate model from the PMD661.  Version 2.03 is the latest firmware for the PMD661.  There are no plans to release a new firmware version for the PMD661 that includes the new features present on the PMD661MKII.

TECHNICAL SUPPORT
D&M Professional
1100 Maplewood Drive
Itasca, IL 60143

Well I was pretty sure they'd say that even if they could have done a firmware update to the original (and their response that there are no plans to do a firmware update actually implies that they could have done one if they so desired). They are probably just hoping that a number of owners of the original will "step up" to the MKII. I'll be interested to hear what changes were made in the MKII that couldn't possibly have been done with a firmware update. Improved preamp? Better S/N ratio?

[spyder9]

D&M  = lazy

PMD 661 mkii

They should have at least ditched the analog meters and made the thing smaller.  They didn't even have the guts to add USB 3.0 or SDXC compatibility.  Releasing an exact replica and putting a new sticker on it is absolutely ridiculous.  It's stupid.  The people who buy these products are not the mainstream consumer.  This is a marketing disaster.  Someone will lose their job over this.  Maybe their career.

PMD 620 mkii

Nice paint job



 

[DigiGal]

A new Taperssection member posted this in the 661 thread, he photoshopped this concept back in May 2012 and he pitched the idea to Marantz.  Of course it won't happen but the form factor of his concept is much nicer than what Marantz developed.  If they could have adopted it then that would have made a sweet MKII.  Don't know if improved the mic pre's in the 661 for MKII, haven't checked to see if the specs changed but that would be an improvement too.  Otherwise what's the real point of the MKII moniker, seems like current models should be able to be upgraded with firmware release but Marantz says it can't so there must be some form of hardware revision.  Basically Marantz produced a big yawn of an upgrade as far as it appears. 

[fmaderjr]

What's the real point of the MKII moniker, seems like current models should be able to be upgraded with firmware release but Marantz says it can't so there must be some form of hardware revision.  Basically Marantz produced a big yawn of an upgrade as far as it appears. 

According your your previous post, the way I read it, Marantz didn't actually say the old 661 couldn't be updated to the new features with a firmware upgrade. They said they were not planning to release such an upgrade.

Got an answer on this...

The PMD661MKII is a separate model from the PMD661.  Version 2.03 is the latest firmware for the PMD661.  There are no plans to release a new firmware version for the PMD661 that includes the new features present on the PMD661MKII.

TECHNICAL SUPPORT
D&M Professional
1100 Maplewood Drive
Itasca, IL 60143

[DigiGal]

Yes, that was a direct quote from the response so no they didn't actually say they couldn't but believe it or not they actually consider the MKII to be a completely separate model hence no firmware update for 661.

It'll be interesting if they release a firmware revision for the MKII down the line to see if can be installed on the PMD661.  I won't be the guinea pig to try it would you?

[fmaderjr]

It'll be interesting if they release a firmware revision for the MKII down the line to see if can be installed on the PMD661.  I won't be the guinea pig to try it would you?

Me neither, although I also though of that.

If you make sure you have a copy of the old 661's last firmware on hand, you could probably reinstall that if something went wrong, but it's a big risk especially when the new features aren't really all that useful.

[DigiGal]

It'll be interesting if they release a firmware revision for the MKII down the line to see if can be installed on the PMD661.  I won't be the guinea pig to try it would you?

Me neither, although I also though of that.

If you make sure you have a copy of the old 661's last firmware on hand, you could probably reinstall that if something went wrong, but it's a big risk especially when the new features aren't really all that useful.

Yeah, there's potential to brick the machine.  A firmware update might not even install though if it performs a check of the model number.  If that's the case it may be possible to hack in with a terminal program, change the model number then install said update.  As mentioned though it's unclear if they actually changed any hardware, I'd guess no but you never know.

There was one PMD661 owner in one of the 661 threads who bricked his machine during an update.  He had to send it in to Marantz to get it working again.

[jb63]

So this is the long-awaited next step?

>sigh<

I can't believe these updates matter to anyone outside of law enforcement, so there must be a market there.
If they had AT LEAST modded the units in some way...

The 620 to do 24/96 or at maybe given it a volume knob.
Updating it to do 24/96 would have sold a lot of units, I think.
The 661 is practically perfect for what it is. What changes do you guys think it needs?

[DigiGal]

Just checked the published specs and there's NO CHANGE from 661.

The update doesn't justify considering this a separate model.  The Law Enforcement features don't mean a thing to tapers but I suppose this does open a door for them to a new professional market.

The card check compatibility feature and Linear style Retake record function of the MKII could be useful.

As far as improvements that could have been made assuming the same form factor/layout. . .  Improved preamp performance with lower S/N, more powerful headphone amp, longer battery run times, digital output, USB 3, and some would argue increasing the sampling rate.

[DSatz]

Has anyone confirmed the recorder's dynamic range specification of 65 dB (yikes!) for the mike inputs and 85 dB for analog line inputs?

If those numbers are correct, the option to record 24-bit from the analog inputs seems strange--there would be no improvement over a 16-bit recording.

--best regards

[DigiGal]

Has anyone confirmed the recorder's dynamic range specification of 65 dB (yikes!) for the mike inputs and 85 dB for analog line inputs?

If those numbers are correct, the option to record 24-bit from the analog inputs seems strange--there would be no improvement over a 16-bit recording.

--best regards

This is one reason why I picked up a MixPre-D to feed my stock PMD661 a digital signal.

MKII is the same spec Marantz Professional listed for PMD661, so no change, it seems like they could/should easily have improved this for the MKII.  As listed the MKII is a lame revision but according to Marantz Professional a firmware update will not be available to bump a 661 up to a MKII which would seem to imply some sort of hardware change was made.

Don't know if the Oade modded units change that spec, guessing yes since they at least change out the op amps.  If the Oade mods do improve this then what's their new spec for: Super, FET, Concert or Warm mods that they offer?

[cd2go]

Don't know if the Oade modded units change that spec, guessing yes since they at least change out the op amps.  If the Oade mods do improve this then what's their new spec for: Super, FET, Concert or Warm mods that they offer?

I wasn't aware that Doug posted specs for his mods?

[DigiGal]

Don't know if the Oade modded units change that spec, guessing yes since they at least change out the op amps.  If the Oade mods do improve this then what's their new spec for: Super, FET, Concert or Warm mods that they offer?

I wasn't aware that Doug posted specs for his mods?

It sure would be nice to know what they are if he could list specs on the various mods offered. 

[datbrad]

Don't know if the Oade modded units change that spec, guessing yes since they at least change out the op amps.  If the Oade mods do improve this then what's their new spec for: Super, FET, Concert or Warm mods that they offer?

I wasn't aware that Doug posted specs for his mods?

It sure would be nice to know what they are if he could list specs on the various mods offered.

I asked Doug what the improvement for the 661 would be when I was about get the warm mod from him in March 2009 due to the well below 24bit performance published for the stock unit. He told me that he raises the mic input ref level on the 661 to -46 and since the chips the stock 661 uses are THD down -95db, the ones he uses for the cmod are down -125db, and the warm are down - 115db.
 

[DigiGal]

Thanks Brad, good to know.

[borjam]

I've just received my PMD-661 Mkii.

Firmware version, for the record, is A3.04.

(CORRECTION - I was wrong)
I've noticed some quirks. I'm not sure if this is normal or not. Note that I haven't tried the previous versions.

- If, while recording (I have made the test sending an S/PDIF signal from a Metric Halo ULN-2 interface), I press the track button to generate a new track, it generates a new file. Nothing new there, but, if I play the files I've generated, there's a very slight click from one file to another when playing on the unit. I haven't loaded the files to an audio editor yet to check if the transition is really seamless. It should. Was this click present in older units?

(After checking the manual, I see that a seamless transition isn't guaranteed indeed, so it's not a bug).

- There's a kinda unpleasant effect when stopping a recording, with some clicks suggesting analog circuitry being turned off. I mean when I push "stop", and I hear it on headphones. I can imagine they are powering off sections of the unit when stopping to minimize power consumption?

Still wondering about this one.

- When recording in "dual mono", the unit sends audio just to the left channel on headphones. Not a major problem, as I can see that it sends it to both channels if I select "mono" instead, but it was a bit puzzling.

I was wrong: It did record a signal to the right channel, with an attenuation of 20 dB, which is a good feature actually. I had an already low recording level, and that's why I didn't notice. My apologies.

Regarding the headphones amplifier, I think it's fine at least for my headphones, which are quite efficient. Ultrasone HFI-650.

[borjam]

- When recording in "dual mono", the unit sends audio just to the left channel on headphones. Not a major problem, as I can see that it sends it to both channels if I select "mono" instead, but it was a bit puzzling.
.

Silly me... Never mind this thing. I didn't RTFM

[DigiGal]

I've just received my PMD-661 Mkii.

Firmware version, for the record, is A3.04.

Thanks for sharing the firmware version number of the MKII, they haven't posted a downloadable firmware for the MKII as yet.

Current version of PMD661 is (v2.04) which is not dated, the previous version (v2.03) was dated 6/17/2011.

[Since85]

I have been running the latest firmware (2.04) on my PMD661, and have not had any issues with merging tracks @ 24/96. Seems to work perfectly, and I have used the new firmware at several shows now.

I use a 16gb Lexar Professional card. I know they area bit expensive, but I have had ZERO problems with it.

[borjam]

The manual states that merging is not guaranteed, and it depends on the card performance. I assumed that it was, because designing software capable of doing that is far from rocket science, but I guess the Marantz designers have opted for a more "direct" approach to recording, instead of using memory buffering.

I tried yesterday with a class 10 card (the one I had tried before was a 10 GB Sandisk Class 4 card) and the merging seems to be perfect now.

However, given that it's not guaranteed and it depends on the card, I would only rely on it using a just formatted card. Otherwise, fragmentation might cause a tiny delay when opening a new file.

If you are recording music, anyway, I would not rely on that feature at all, as the manufacturer clearly states that it's not guaranteed. Unless, of course, you press the track button between songs, during audience noise that anyway you would probably edit a bit

[jazzgtrl4]

I remember talking to Marantz at Namm about the 661. i use and love it but was wondering why they couldn't re-design it and make the mkII more like a 722 with the metering and everything on the side, maybe keep it the same size or a little bit bigger, the rep said, "ya that would be a good idea" that was two years ago.

[DigiGal]

I remember talking to Marantz at Namm about the 661. i use and love it but was wondering why they couldn't re-design it and make the mkII more like a 722 with the metering and everything on the side, maybe keep it the same size or a little bit bigger, the rep said, "ya that would be a good idea" that was two years ago.

They offer the PMD671 for that form factor...

http://usa.d-mpro.com/us/denon/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?catid=AudRecPlayback(DMPro_US)&subcatid=HandPortRecorders(DMPro_US)&pid=PMD671(DMPro)

[John Willett]

I remember talking to Marantz at Namm about the 661. i use and love it but was wondering why they couldn't re-design it and make the mkII more like a 722 with the metering and everything on the side, maybe keep it the same size or a little bit bigger, the rep said, "ya that would be a good idea" that was two years ago.

The PMD661MkII has just won the 2013 Resolution award for best recorder - see HERE.

[DigiGal]

I remember talking to Marantz at Namm about the 661. i use and love it but was wondering why they couldn't re-design it and make the mkII more like a 722 with the metering and everything on the side, maybe keep it the same size or a little bit bigger, the rep said, "ya that would be a good idea" that was two years ago.

The PMD661MkII has just won the 2013 Resolution award for best recorder - see HERE.

Yup, it's a winner, thanks for posting the link.

[cashandkerouac]

i don't have the MKII version, but i totally love my new (used) 661.  i decided to get the 661 to eliminate the need for a pre-amp for stealth applications and i could not be happier.  the 2013 Resolution award for best recorder is well deserved.   

[ninjadave]

Don't know if the Oade modded units change that spec, guessing yes since they at least change out the op amps.  If the Oade mods do improve this then what's their new spec for: Super, FET, Concert or Warm mods that they offer?

I wasn't aware that Doug posted specs for his mods?

It sure would be nice to know what they are if he could list specs on the various mods offered.

I asked Doug what the improvement for the 661 would be when I was about get the warm mod from him in March 2009 due to the well below 24bit performance published for the stock unit. He told me that he raises the mic input ref level on the 661 to -46 and since the chips the stock 661 uses are THD down -95db, the ones he uses for the cmod are down -125db, and the warm are down - 115db.

not to beat a dead horse, but what does this mean? i have the Oade CM, and does that mean the specs are just as good as a PRE, or decent, etc? i'm running MIC IN straight off my milab bodies....wondering if a PREamp>M-10 is a better option? if so which pre? TINYBOX? looking for small footprint, i stealth all the time.
thanks.
dave.

[H₂O]

The PMD661MkII has just won the 2013 Resolution award for best recorder - see HERE.

With the mkii, Didn't they only change the firmware from the original version which has been on the market for 6+ years? - Not very innovative IMO

[cashandkerouac]

Don't know if the Oade modded units change that spec, guessing yes since they at least change out the op amps.  If the Oade mods do improve this then what's their new spec for: Super, FET, Concert or Warm mods that they offer?

I wasn't aware that Doug posted specs for his mods?

It sure would be nice to know what they are if he could list specs on the various mods offered.

I asked Doug what the improvement for the 661 would be when I was about get the warm mod from him in March 2009 due to the well below 24bit performance published for the stock unit. He told me that he raises the mic input ref level on the 661 to -46 and since the chips the stock 661 uses are THD down -95db, the ones he uses for the cmod are down -125db, and the warm are down - 115db.

not to beat a dead horse, but what does this mean? i have the Oade CM, and does that mean the specs are just as good as a PRE, or decent, etc? i'm running MIC IN straight off my milab bodies....wondering if a PREamp>M-10 is a better option? if so which pre? TINYBOX? looking for small footprint, i stealth all the time.
thanks.
dave.

Dave:  i ran a Tinybox/M10 set-up for a while because it provided the "smallest +48v phantom footprint" for  out of anything else i could find.  however, i recently transitioned to the Marantz 661 OCM for a couple of reasons: 1) the Tinybox (IMO) was not a great match with my MKH8040 mics and 2) for  i wanted the fewest pieces of equipment in the signal chain.   the size of the 661 is noticably bigger than the M10 or the Tinybox, but the all-in-one package of the Marantz combined with the upgraded pres via the Oade mod are preferred.  if i was running Schoeps mics i probably would have stuck with the Tinybox, as i really like the way that combo sounds. 

[cashandkerouac]

has anyone done any battery tests with the 661 and/or the 661 MKii? 

powering my 661 with four (4) rechargable Imedion AA 2400mAh NiMH batteries i get about 4h 20min using phantom power and about 7 hours without phantom.   i assume that the MKii version is not much different, but i haven't done a direct comparison.   

[DigiGal]

There were run time battery tests in one of the team661 threads.

[cashandkerouac]

There were run time battery tests in one of the team661 threads.

thanks.  i'll look for more info there.

[cd2go]

battery stuff here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=119213.msg1597270#msg1597270

I recall getting around 8 hours Just retested: I get 7.5 hours with Energizer Ultimate Lithiums running 24/48, LEDs off, lowest screen brightness, levels bouncing off -12dB with phantom and my DPAs which have a pretty low draw. I can't imagine anything would be different with the MKII version, all other specs are identical.

[borjam]

I just noticed a firmware download on the Asia-Pacific website: A3.05

http://apac.d-mpro.com/eng/marantz/products/pages/productdetails.aspx?catid=handheldandportablerecorders&subcatid=sdcardrecorders&productid=pmd661mkii#.UzPa31zxU1I

No release notes, though.

[jb63]

Hi guys.
Ok, I'm not sure this is the right place for this, but always worth a try:

Running a v3 digital in to a 661, recording was going fine. 3 hours in, show stops. Deck is running fine. I turned off the v3 BEFORE the 661 and got an immediate card error 22.

Waited a long time trying to push stop and pause and whatnot and finally, and hour later after I got home I turned the power off and the deck powered down properly.

Turned it back on and the file was there,
Date of the file was 10:43, when I turned off the v3. Pushed play and it repaired the file, but the file ends almost an hour too soon. Does the rest exist and is there a way to recover it, or is that all there is?

Thanks for any advice!

jb

[audBall]

Did you give the WAV repair utility a shot?

 http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,72936.0.html

Hope it works out for you.

[jb63]

I did not.
That is way over my head. I use a Mac and I'm pretty good at it, but that's something I couldn't do.
Right now I'm saving the card and hoping for the best. I can copy the file and put it somewhere, buy I'm thinking I need something to investigate/probe the actual card?

I dunno. I did run backup tapes, but damn if the acmv3 is not the cats pajamas on this one.

[rocksuitcase]

Could this be the old 2GB per fileset issue? I think my PMD 661 starts a new file at the 2 GB mark (at 24/48 it is ~1GB per hour). Editing it is no problem as they seamlessly connect in post, however, if there was some issue during shutdown, maybe the PMD 661 didn't finalize the remaining fileset after the initial 2 hour mark? I am not 100% sure of this, but someone else with a PMD 661 might have some input for you on this issue.

[audBall]

I did not.
That is way over my head. I use a Mac and I'm pretty good at it, but that's something I couldn't do.

Just in case you have access to a PC, you only need to input a few things. I don't understand any of that green text. 
Taken from thread:
"you need to know a little about the file... the number of bits, the samples per second, and the number of mics..."

[dallman]

Could this be the old 2GB per fileset issue? I think my PMD 661 starts a new file at the 2 GB mark (at 24/48 it is ~1GB per hour). Editing it is no problem as they seamlessly connect in post, however, if there was some issue during shutdown, maybe the PMD 661 didn't finalize the remaining fileset after the initial 2 hour mark? I am not 100% sure of this, but someone else with a PMD 661 might have some input for you on this issue.

The PMD 661 uses FAT 32 (not FAT 16) so the file split is at 4gb. You may choose a lower split if you like, but it will go to 4gb.

[flipp]

I did not.
That is way over my head. I use a Mac and I'm pretty good at it, but that's something I couldn't do.
Right now I'm saving the card and hoping for the best. I can copy the file and put it somewhere, buy I'm thinking I need something to investigate/probe the actual card?

I dunno. I did run backup tapes, but damn if the acmv3 is not the cats pajamas on this one.

Scroll down to the Data Recovery section for links to several threads which might be able to help - http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=117279.0

[jb63]

Thanks!
So I read through all the stuff I could. Seems I have to get my hands on a PC to use any of the data recovery solutions available.

So the question is this:

Do I need to keep the card as is and not make any changes to it until I can inspect it, or can I copy the file and use that, can I try telling the 661 to make a copy of the file into the same
card and see what happens?

[flipp]

Best not to do anything to the card until you have access to one of the programs to try to recover it.

If it was my recording and I wanted to copy the card, I would use a live Linux disc to boot my computer and use Linux to copy the card to my hard-drive and work on that copy and I wouldn't use the card again until I had either recovered the file or exhausted all possibility of recovering it. At bare minimum I would write protect/lock the card before doing anything else.

I did not.
That is way over my head. I use a Mac and I'm pretty good at it, but that's something I couldn't do.

Just in case you have access to a PC, you only need to input a few things. I don't understand any of that green text. 
Taken from thread:
"you need to know a little about the file... the number of bits, the samples per second, and the number of mics..."

16 or 24; 44.1, 48, 96, 192 or something else; 2 if it is a stereo recording, 3,4,5 etc if it was surround or multi-tracked

You might also search for posts from Gordon Gidluck of Gidluck Mastering as he has some fairly extensive instructions for repairing and re-writing corrupted files/headers. He probably posted in some of those threads in the link I posted above.  Sorry, I don't recall his user name here on TS. live2496 is Gordon's user name and there are a coulpe of other suggestions in the following threads - http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=26640.0 and http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,68159.0.html

[spyder9]

Copy the file to another SD card.  Borrow a friend's Edirol R-09HR.  It has header repair tool built into its firmware.  I used that to fix the same problem earlier this year.  Too easy. 

[jb63]

Well, it looks like, since the 661 has a repair function, and I USED the repair function, the headers were written, and so the last hour is gone. I guess it's why I make backups! Funny thing is, the recorder was running, the display said it was still recording when I looked at it, then I shut off the v3 and the error appeared instantly. So I would have thought the file could be saved, instead the error 22 just kept the machine locked until I shut off the power. When I turned back on and played/repaired the file it was short. I wouldn't have thought that could happen, but the repair function must have closed it somewhere earlier in the file.

So I guess the lesson is: when going digital in, turn off the 661 before the device that feeds it!

[dallman]

Well, it looks like, since the 661 has a repair function, and I USED the repair function, the headers were written, and so the last hour is gone. I guess it's why I make backups! Funny thing is, the recorder was running, the display said it was still recording when I looked at it, then I shut off the v3 and the error appeared instantly. So I would have thought the file could be saved, instead the error 22 just kept the machine locked until I shut off the power. When I turned back on and played/repaired the file it was short. I wouldn't have thought that could happen, but the repair function must have closed it somewhere earlier in the file.

So I guess the lesson is: when going digital in, turn off the 661 before the device that feeds it!

Just to clarify, Did you shut off the V3 while the 661 was still recording? Or was the 661 stopped but still powered on when you shut down the V3. I know the file is written as soon as you hit the stop button, so if that was the case, it is unusual if you lost data. However if it was still recording while you shut off the power to the V3 that would make sense, as you would have an instant I/O error and the file would likely go back to it's last internal save that it makes periodically while the recording is taking place. I just want to be clear, because in none of your posts (I think), do you mention that you stopped the recording prior to shutting off the V3. Thanks!

[jb63]

Just to clarify, Did you shut off the V3 while the 661 was still recording? Or was the 661 stopped but still powered on when you shut down the V3. I know the file is written as soon as you hit the stop button, so if that was the case, it is unusual if you lost data. However if it was still recording while you shut off the power to the V3 that would make sense, as you would have an instant I/O error and the file would likely go back to it's last internal save that it makes periodically while the recording is taking place. I just want to be clear, because in none of your posts (I think), do you mention that you stopped the recording prior to shutting off the V3. Thanks!

Exactly!
I shut off the V3 while the 661 was still recording. Would have been fine if I was feeding the XLRs but it was feeding via digital-in. So that explains it all to me, anyway. (I think I posted the order I did stuff at the beginning, but its water under the bridge.

Thanks again, guys!

[jb63]

Running a v3 digital in to a 661, recording was going fine. 3 hours in, show stops. Deck is running fine. I turned off the v3 BEFORE the 661 and got an immediate card error 22.

Waited a long time trying to push stop and pause and whatnot and finally, and hour later after I got home I turned the power off and the deck powered down properly.

Thanks again for all this info. It is really nice to have a place like this to to come back to after the show and yak about it all.
Nothing like that in my divergent life.

So here's a stupid question: I got the error because the digital signal stopped, right? What if, after I saw the error, I turned the V3 back on and the signal showed up? Would the 661 recognize it again and save the recording, or would it successfully have locked itself up and the tape would be gone?

I'd test that, but I'm not next to the machines right now.

[edit]

Nope. I just tried that. Once that error shows up, your machine is locked and you have to turn off the power to get it back.

I miss DATs just a little bit right now. (But I remember missing cassettes the first time I brickwalled a DAT)

[Ultfris101]

This behavior is a little disconcerting. So if you're battery dies or for whatever reason the V3 loses power you're going to lose at least some of your recording?

Do you have the latest firmware on the 661? I would lower the file size limit so it splits more frequently and thus you lose less if it happens again.

[jb63]

That sounds like a good idea! Yes, latest firmware.

[jb63]

I would lower the file size limit so it splits more frequently and thus you lose less if it happens again.

I couldn't figure out how to do this, but I did read the part of the manual that says the 661 does not guarantee a seamless file-split.

[rocksuitcase]

I would lower the file size limit so it splits more frequently and thus you lose less if it happens again.

I couldn't figure out how to do this, but I did read the part of the manual that says the 661 does not guarantee a seamless file-split.

To date, my 661 has always made seamless splits. It seems it is coded to split at 2GB, but I do not know if this is 100% accurate for all 661s.

[jb63]

I would lower the file size limit so it splits more frequently and thus you lose less if it happens again.

I couldn't figure out how to do this, but I did read the part of the manual that says the 661 does not guarantee a seamless file-split.

To date, my 661 has always made seamless splits. It seems it is coded to split at 2GB, but I do not know if this is 100% accurate for all 661s.

Mine, too.
But I can't figure out how to change the size where it splits the files.

[cottle]

It's under the settings when you go into your presets and edit them. I think it gives you the option of setting the split at a time interval rather than as a file size.  I'll have to pull mine out when I get home and I can tell you exactly where it is in the menu options.

[dallman]

It's under the settings when you go into your presets and edit them. I think it gives you the option of setting the split at a time interval rather than as a file size.  I'll have to pull mine out when I get home and I can tell you exactly where it is in the menu options.

It is hard to remember, because, once I set the presets, I never needed to go back and change them. (I have SPDIF, XLR, and 1/8 Line in as my 3 preset parameters.) I believe that preset #7 is Auto Track, and leaving that off, allows your to go to 4gb before the file splits. However, my memory on this is very sketchy. I didn't realize it split at 4gb (versus the more common 2GB) until I recorded a set that was longer than 2GB, and I was pretty surprised until I got an explanation from someone here at TS. This may be addressed in the an older PMD 661 thread. Mine is not the MKII, but the differences are negligible.

[jb63]

Well, my 661 has screwed me with the err 22 again.
Different card, different cable, same chain: acmv3>661.

I was going to sent it to the r44 digital in, but it wouldn't take. (Different thread, I guess.)
But I had the 661 in a bag as a backup, pulled the cable and sent it to that instead. Checked it numerous times throughout the show, but at the 2 & 1/2 hour point I assumed it was ok. Breaking down 10 mins later it says: Err22
Well, it's not like I didn't make 4 backup tapes, but come on... Why is this happening?
A) jiggling the digital in cable sends errors?
B) it hates 2.5 hour shows and gives errors at that time?
C) low battery causes the error?

I googles the hell out of this again tonight, because the v3 is still powered on and plugged in, but after an hour of discovering no tricks to get the unit to respond I just powered it off. I'm not going to turn it on and let it repair the file like last time right away, because maybe someone has a better idea. I didn't set it to record smaller file sizes or anything, so I assume, like last time, that I've lost the entire last chunk of data.

(Pardon my language)

[DigiGal]

It could be a loose solder joint on the circuit board of PMD661's digital input if you are certain the cable and its connectors are good and wiggling the cable at the PMD661 end causes the problem.  You would need to take the PMD661 apart to inspect the solder joint and then re-solder if it is bad, best to wick off the old solder and use new eutectic solder to replace it.

[jb63]

Nope. Solder seems good. I dunno. I'm going to try different memory cards and run some lang tests. All I can think of is that I moved the bag with the deck in it a few times as there were crowds of people stomping around in the grass…

I just hate seeing the "Err Card 2" and not being able to do anything but turn of the deck. Its like when your tape got mangled in 1974...

[DigiGal]

Well if it's a card error that's entirely different than a digital in error. 

Are you pre-formatting your cards in the PMD661 before use and exactly what brand/type/class card is giving you the error?  "err 22" or "Err Card 2"

[jb63]

It's under the settings when you go into your presets and edit them. I think it gives you the option of setting the split at a time interval rather than as a file size.  I'll have to pull mine out when I get home and I can tell you exactly where it is in the menu options.

That's the one! Smallest size is 10 mins, so I'll try that and see what happens. I'm running out of cards to try. Last one was a Kingston 16 GB class 10. The R-44 hates that card, but the 661 has always liked it.