Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?  (Read 21398 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« on: February 24, 2014, 08:19:37 PM »
Interested in picking up an 8 port Gigabit Network Switch for a SOHO Network upgrade.  Recommendations or personal experiences with gigabit switches would be appreciated.  It will be vertically mounted and I like the ports in the back with LED's in the front, not interested in units that run hot or have fans.

Have looked at these two so far:

Linksys SE3008 is $79.76

TRENDnet TEG-S80g is $31.00

The Linksys model references QoS (Quality of Service) and TRENDnet does not.  There's quite a price difference between the two, does that equate to functionality or reliability?
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

adrianf74

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2014, 08:25:20 PM »
Somebody in IT once told me that a switch is a switch is a switch.

Personally, I've run TRENDNet products in the mid-2000's and they were okay but there's always something to be said about Linksys/Cisco and the fact that most corporations use their products.  In a SOHO setting, I don't think Linksys would be so critical at the end of the day because the part could be replaced 2.5x by the time you paid for the Linksys so... I'd go with whatever is cheaper and works.  :)

BTW, reviews of the TEG-S80g seem okay.

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11783
  • Gender: Male
    • my list
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2014, 08:30:06 PM »
Somebody in IT once told me that a switch is a switch is a switch.


well there's managed and unmanaged.  for most home and very small business a unmanged is just fine.  I have an 8 port asus and a 4 port netgear and both have been rock solid for a few years.
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II @ 32/48

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

https://archive.org/details/teamdirtysouth

Offline Ultfris101

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • Gender: Male
  • Spoon!!!
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2014, 08:37:45 PM »
In this range they are largely the same and just need to work. You don't have smart capabilities like vlans and trunking. Do you need QoS?

I have had good experience with the Netgear Prosafe line for many years at home. Blue, metal cases being the hallmark. I believe they only have the ports and LEDs on the same side tho.

I have an 8 port gig unit unit in my home network distro box. Works great.

I have a five port Netgear Prosafe gig unit and a trend net 5 port gig unit as well and never had trouble with either but I also haven't done any real performance comparisons or anything.

I watch for good deals on the Netgear Prosafe devices when I'm in need of a new device. Like hard drives, you'll find people that have had good luck and bad luck with all the brands probably.

If nothing else, the Prosafe line feels solid with the metal case to me.
Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

LMA: http://archive.org/bookmarks/ultfris101

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2014, 08:42:04 PM »
Somebody in IT once told me that a switch is a switch is a switch.


well there's managed and unmanaged.  for most home and very small business a unmanged is just fine.  I have an 8 port asus and a 4 port netgear and both have been rock solid for a few years.

Upgrading from an unmanaged Linksys 8-port 10/100 network switch which has been trouble free, reliable and was easy to set up.  Never used TRENDnet switches before so I've no experience with them.  Some earlier Linksys switches (the EG008W) were reported to be prone to overheating failures but haven't seen any reports on the SE3008.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2014, 08:45:06 PM »
In this range they are largely the same and just need to work. You don't have smart capabilities like vlans and trunking. Do you need QoS?

I have had good experience with the Netgear Prosafe line for many years at home. Blue, metal cases being the hallmark. I believe they only have the ports and LEDs on the same side tho.

I have an 8 port gig unit unit in my home network distro box. Works great.

I have a five port Netgear Prosafe gig unit and a trend net 5 port gig unit as well and never had trouble with either but I also haven't done any real performance comparisons or anything.

I watch for good deals on the Netgear Prosafe devices when I'm in need of a new device. Like hard drives, you'll find people that have had good luck and bad luck with all the brands probably.

If nothing else, the Prosafe line feels solid with the metal case to me.

Not sure if QoS is important or not but 3D HD video streaming would be utilized on one of the lines and HD video streaming on another.

Do NETGEAR switches ever need to be re-booted, had seen some mention that they did.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11783
  • Gender: Male
    • my list
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2014, 08:50:19 PM »
the only time I've rebooted mine was when I moved it and unplugged it.
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II @ 32/48

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

https://archive.org/details/teamdirtysouth

Offline Ultfris101

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (15)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 764
  • Gender: Male
  • Spoon!!!
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2014, 10:42:57 AM »

Do NETGEAR switches ever need to be re-booted, had seen some mention that they did.

I haven't needed to power cycle any of my switches in recent memory but we also have power outages periodically so they have restarted. I don't have them on UPS. Do you recall if the mentions of this were in regard to specific lines? I've heard many people say disparaging things about Netgear (and other brands too for that matter) but they often have very little experience except with one or two of the basic, plastic devices if I choose to dig. I also keep things like that up to date with firmware which can help.

It's a little odd to me for a switch to need to be power cycled unless it's also got a router or something built-in tho I definitely had some old plastic switch that if the power went out at the house at all then I'd have to go and pull the power on it and bring it up again or it wouldn't work. This was a long time ago and was probably Linksys or an off brand but really can't remember. I've stopped deciding based solely on price because of experiences like that tho I bit on super cheap trendnet gigabit switches on Newegg a while back. I actually have a 5 port netgear prosafe and a 5 port trendnet gig still sitting shrink wrapped in boxes awaiting another device to die.

I do have a Linksys Wireless 802.11n router that I have to power cycle once in a while. Seems like maybe I had to cycle the Netgear wireless router I used long ago but it was also one of the plastic, lowest end ones. The wireless/firewall units at the lowest end really are crap in my opinion and it's worth spending a little extra.

I didn't go with wireless at the time, but I bought a Soekris 4801 (or was it a 4501?) unit about ten years ago that I still use as my main home firewall running m0n0wall (FiOS router is in bridge mode): http://www.soekris.com/. Love that little thing. Tops out at 25mbps tho so probably nearing its end of life soon. but I digress.
Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

LMA: http://archive.org/bookmarks/ultfris101

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2014, 12:11:17 PM »
Not sure which NETGEAR model was specifically referenced, it was actually mentioned in a user review of TRENDnet TEG-S80g, they mentioned their previous NETGEAR switch required frequent reboots and the TRENDnet TEG-S80g did not.

I don't think I'll go with NETGEAR since it looks like all their switches have the status LED's with the connectors.  I'm looking to keep the connectors at the back with LED's up front.  Definitely looking for a switch with a metal enclosure as it should help dissipate heat.  Our current Linksys 10/100 switch has a plastic case but heat buildup doesn't appear to be a problem for 10/100. 

Can't find much info, a manual or user reviews of the Linksys SE3008 so I'm guessing it might be relatively new.

Have found that TRENDnet has a newer TEG-S82g which has 256 KBytes RAM data buffering instead of 128 KBytes like their TEG-80g.   Their newer model however does not have shielded connectors or wall mounting and it's LED's only indicate network activity where the TEG-80g LED's illuminate a different color to indicate 1000 connection versus 100 connection.  Our computer cabling is all Shielded CAT 6a and video streaming devices are CAT 6 UTP 550MHz to eliminate the possibility of introducing a ground loop into their connected audio systems.   

Guess at the moment I'm leaning or trending ; ) toward the TRENDnet TEG-S80g, it has; a 3 year warranty, cost less, LED's in front that indicate connection speed, shielded connectors in the back, metal enclosure and has lots (1000's) of favorable reviews.  Comparatively the Linksys SE3008 costs more, only has a 1 year warranty, doesn't have LED's that indicate connection speed or many user reviews.

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I'm not ordering right away so definitely still open to other possibilities and user feedback.  The thread could serve as a reference for anyone else interested in Gigabit network switches.



edit to add:

Just discovered the HP V1410-8G Switch for around $65.00, it looks promising and offers a lifetime warranty.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 05:03:51 PM by DigiGal »
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014, 01:41:23 PM »
Decided to go ahead and order the TRENDnet TEG-S80g.

The HP model mentioned in my last post is discontinued, the replacement (HP 1405-8G v2) utilizes a different form factor with a plastic enclosure.  While the new model added green networking among other enhancements it took away desired features like LED's that indicate connection speed and lifetime warranty was reduced to a 3 year warranty.  While I'm sure it is a nice switch, it doesn't match what I'm looking for in this particular application and its price is around $85.00.

Looks to me these devices are moving away from LED's that indicate connection speed as new models are rolled out.  It's probably a manufacturing cost reduction decision but just because a switch is capable of 1000 speed doesn't mean all connected devices are running or capable of 1000.  For me it's nice to be able to see the actual connection speed of each port.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline Colin Liston

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2346
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014, 02:20:52 PM »
What's the difference between managed and unmanaged switches?
Occasionally....music mics record

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 02:30:13 PM »
What's the difference between managed and unmanaged switches?

Basically...  Unmanaged is plug and play.  Managed requires configuration.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9945
  • Gender: Male
  • I dream in beige.
    • sloppy.art.ink
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 03:51:30 PM »
I paid about $25 for my 5 port switch that lives next to the TV. It's a D-link. Works fine and has been rock solid for a few years now. I have it hooked up to the PS3, Slingbox, Media PC and the TV itself.

As others have said, if you don't know what a managed switch is, you probably don't need one. I'd be very impressed if you ran enough data through a gigabit switch that it required QOS.

I think this is the 8 port version of what I have. $25. It says it has QOS in this one. Like I said, it's doubtful you'll need it.

http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SG1005D-1000Mbps-Gigabit-Capacity/dp/B000N99BBC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1393447489&sr=8-3&keywords=d-link+4+port+switch

||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 | DPA 4022 | DPA 4080 | Nevaton MCE400 | Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| PREAMPS: DPA d:vice | Naiant Tinybox | Naiant IPA |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube |||

Offline Colin Liston

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2346
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 04:44:48 PM »
What's the difference between managed and unmanaged switches?

Basically...  Unmanaged is plug and play.  Managed requires configuration.

Thank you!  I thought it was the other way around.
Occasionally....music mics record

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2014, 05:02:42 PM »
We certainly don't need or want a managed switch, plug and play is why my search was restricted to unmanaged switches although I didn't mention that in my OP a managed switch was never a consideration for us.

QoS is a big question mark though, would it be beneficial now or perhaps down the road idk.   It's listed as a feature on some of the switches while others don't have so I thought someone here could shed more light on this. 

Our old Linksys 10/100 has been transparent, trouble free and reliable for years but it's time to upgrade to a gigabit switch.  Had expected it would be easy to find an identical type of replacement in a 10/100/1000 version but one doesn't exist.  Kind of disappointing that the recent and current crop of 8-port switches are really 7-port switches just like the 5-port switches are really 4-port switches, what's up with manufacturers dropping a dedicated uplink port?  Now it looks as some manufacturers are cheaping out by dropping other standard type features, gone from new models are LED's that indicate actual connection speed for each port and TEG-S82g drops shield connections from it's ports along with screw mounting slots.  Sure US typically doesn't utilize STP category cables but others countries do primarily and there are benefits to using STP over UTP.

Ultimately I ended up ordering the TRENDnet TEG-S80g which doesn't list QoS, it's other features were desirable for this application.  If adding additional switches down the line some of the other switches could do just fine but if this one works out well and is still available when another is needed we'd probably just stick with it again.  However since their newer TEG-S82g offers some improvements it also cut some corners so if that's where their future offerings are at the time we'd go with something different.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 05:06:04 PM by DigiGal »
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3699
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2014, 06:07:30 PM »
I don't like linksys.

Check this out, it will save you over $50:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=105&cp_id=10521&cs_id=1052104&p_id=7857&seq=1&format=2

For home use, this will work well. It's a dumb switch so there's no management interface or cli access. I bought two for my work: voice and data. both are working well without any issues.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.


Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3699
  • Gender: Male
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2014, 09:05:42 PM »
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?ab3=b&utm_expid=58369800-11.R-enhtUGRrSdHz5vzpVS2g.1&c_id=105&cp_id=10521&cs_id=1052104&p_id=10927&seq=1&format=2&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.monoprice.com%2FCategory%3Fc_id%3D105%26cp_id%3D10521%26cs_id%3D1052104

Looks like a newer version with a slimmer profile.

I'd personally go with the unit that has almost 200 reviews.

That's part of the reason I went with the TRENDnet TEG-S80g it has over 1000 favorable reviews.  The Linksys SE3008 only has a couple of reviews probably hasn't been out long and less people will try it because it costs quite a bit more.

It's nice that those Monoprice units both have port connection speed LED's most models don't. The first Monoprice with over 200 reviews does not have the port grounding shield to gain benefits of using the STP cables that we already have in place. Can't tell on the newer Monoprice model. This is of no concern for most folks, at least in the US who don't use shielded network cables.  If however you use shielded network cables like we do you're better off not getting these Monoprice switches or the newer S82g switch by TRENDnet. This was part of my gripe of many manufacturers who are cutting costs by dropping features.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3699
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2014, 09:11:53 PM »
Haven't ever needed a STP. What's your need for STP in your home?
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2014, 10:47:28 PM »
We have network cables running throughout the house and no two electrical outlets of the scattered connected equipment can have the same ground potential.

Thus, aside from reducing EMI/RFI interference which could potentially be an issue there is CMRR which is often overlooked.  It has been suggested that many receivers actually have very poor CMRR and that ground voltage differences can easily be large enough to exceed a receiver's common-mode input voltage limits using unshielded twisted-pair (UTP) network cabling.  By using shielded twisted-pair (STP) network cables grounded at both ends, the ground voltage difference creates a shield current and its resultant magnetic field induces the same voltage over the entire length of the twisted pairs enclosed within.  The polarity of this induced voltage in STP cables helps to reduce common-mode voltage at the receiver. 

If a network switch does not utilize a ground shield for its ports then the CMRR benefits of STP network cables are lost.

YMMV but this is why we ran the STP CAT 6a cabling.  We did run UTP CAT 6 for the video streaming devices to eliminate any potential ground loops that might be introduced into their connected audio systems.  We may try running STP CAT 6a cabling to them at some point and give it a try, their network ports use transformers so they might not introduce a ground loop to the audio systems.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11783
  • Gender: Male
    • my list
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2014, 11:07:31 PM »
I have cat 5e (unshielded) running all over the house with multiple computers, video streaming devices, audio streaming devices etc.  I have wires everywhere of every type and zero issues.  ymmv ;)
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II @ 32/48

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

https://archive.org/details/teamdirtysouth

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2014, 12:28:57 AM »
I have cat 5e (unshielded) running all over the house with multiple computers, video streaming devices, audio streaming devices etc.  I have wires everywhere of every type and zero issues.  ymmv ;)

As mentioned often overlooked.  ;)  We're applying the laws of physics to optimize our network performance as we upgrade but that's us.  Currently reading the De Capo Science Series biography of Michael Farady written by L. Pearce Williams too  ;D
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15720
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2014, 10:49:23 AM »
Currently reading the De Capo Science Series biography of Michael Farady written by L. Pearce Williams too  ;D

That's really digging down to the fundamentals of physical network layer 1!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3699
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2014, 06:23:32 PM »
Digigal,

Have you attempted to run an STP and UTP the same length to and from the same devices simultaneously to see if there's any performance degradation at all? What types of devices are you plugging into? What kinds of network cards do these devices have?
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2014, 12:12:28 AM »
No haven't run STP and UTP side by side but the physics are solid, doesn't necessarily mean that there would be a hugely noticeable problem with UTP.  As we upgraded network cabling we switched over to STP after learning of the CMRR benefits, would be a shame to pick up a switch that would lose the benefit after going through the trouble to run new lines.

We upgraded from an RTS Network (Really Tight String) decades ago and wouldn't go back  ;)


Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15720
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2014, 12:42:36 PM »
Very low-stretch technical fibers such as Spectra or Vectran dramatically increase performace of RTS networks and can allow for transmission length distance increases of something like an order of magnitude over that of cotton twine.  The diaphram strength of 'paper-cup' line terminations (NIC equivalents) then becomes the system constraint and requires upgrading to 'tin-can' or better quality to fully leverage the fiber gains for optimal Quality of Service.  At that point, operator bicept strength and vocal chord strain rapidly become the primary limitations on long duration cconnections.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline H₂O

  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5745
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2014, 09:44:47 PM »
I have a trendnet and it will be fine for anything you use in your home.

QoS only works if everything end to end is running QoS - (i.e. the internet to your house is not running QoS - maybe if your ISP is giving you phone service and digitial cable may have a little QoS for this but you have now means of accessing this - they will strip off your QoS if they are running it so they can ensure you aren't trumping them)

QoS is typically only run in large entriprise or backbone ISP's where voice/data networks are converged.

In your house if you are running GigE or 802.11ac you won't need to worry about it.

I ran UTP Cat6 in my house and have never had issues at 1GE

I can only see a need for STP Cat6+ if your running 10GE over longer distances - my whole office is run with UTP at 1Gbps with no issues and I personally haven't seen STP in the field since the IBM Token Ring days of the mid to early 1990's.

Music can at the least least explain you and at the most expand you
LMA Recordings

List

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2014, 10:27:20 PM »
Thanks for the QoS info do you know if home dlna/NAS drives/servers utilize QoS?

As mentioned US doesn't typically use STP but my understanding is some other countries STP is the norm and UTP is rare.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline H₂O

  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5745
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2014, 01:19:08 PM »
It may be an option on some higher end NAS devices to use QoS but I have never looked into this and would think it's not common - very unlikely on any appliance devices such as DLNA capable wifi receivers for example


For QoS to work you need Configurable QoS switches, end points, and any layer 3 and above device in the middle - note that not all manufacturers use the same QoS markers as each other (I.e. Cisco vs Avaya) so being able to configure the devices is required.
Music can at the least least explain you and at the most expand you
LMA Recordings

List

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3699
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2014, 10:55:08 PM »
It may be an option on some higher end NAS devices to use QoS but I have never looked into this and would think it's not common - very unlikely on any appliance devices such as DLNA capable wifi receivers for example


For QoS to work you need Configurable QoS switches, end points, and any layer 3 and above device in the middle - note that not all manufacturers use the same QoS markers as each other (I.e. Cisco vs Avaya) so being able to configure the devices is required.

I agree with all of this and what h2o previously stated. ISPs won't care about your QoS rules unless you have some really good agreement with them. If you have a home/office and there's just a few machines, QoS also isn't that big of a deal. I suggest running iperf/vnstat on your machines to see what throughput you get on your switches, network cards, routers, etc.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline DigiGal

  • AES Associate Member
  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2583
  • Gender: Female
  • Stay healthy and safe!
    • DigiGal Internet Archive Recordings
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2014, 02:28:02 PM »
The NAS uses Gigabit wired connection only and whole house is also wired with CAT6a STP wi-fi doesn't factor in our WAN or with any DLNA devices. 

We didn't pick up a QoS switch, my interest in the feature is only that some gigabit switches touted QoS as a feature so I'm wondering where that feature would actually be useful.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline morst

  • I think I found an error on the internet; #UnionStrong
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5966
Re: Gigabit Network Switches, are they all created equal?
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2014, 02:09:58 AM »
Unless you're doing VOIP telephony, I wouldn't think you'd really need to control QoS.

I like Netgear & Linksys, Trendnet works fine for the $$ until it doesn't. D-Link is also Ok.
https://toad.social/@morst spoutible.com/morst post.news/@acffhmorst

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.154 seconds with 57 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF