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Author Topic: Sony PCM-D100 Part2  (Read 26783 times)

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Offline schoepsnbox

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Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« on: July 31, 2014, 08:29:59 PM »
Old thread:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=164484.360


Just pulled my first recording with this unit..who's got one and what are your experiences?
 
Definitely dont like the fact that the power switch does not lock with the hold on WTF is up with that?  Also is the DSD only DSF files at 2.8Mhz?

Can someone lock the old mile long thread, please!

Offline jb63

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 01:49:42 AM »
DSD is definitely only DSDIFF files at 2.8. Same as the mr1.
But I swear by it. I've used an mr1 side by side with an mr1000 and 2.8 is huge enough.
this is definitely not normal

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2014, 11:18:11 AM »
Just pulled my first recording with this unit..who's got one and what are your experiences?
 
Definitely dont like the fact that the power switch does not lock with the hold on WTF is up with that?  Also is the DSD only DSF files at 2.8Mhz?
In general, I very much like the PCM-D100's performance. However, as pointed out by some users, the limiter is a bit strange in that there are times when one can hear a loud sound and then a click as the limiter
returns the volume to normal. This is because it sometimes does the return all at once, and thus the click.
At any event, in combination with the USBPre2 the D100 absolutely shines. Even without the USBPre2 its preamps are quiet enough to take care of even the most demanding dynamic mics.

Offline spyder9

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2014, 09:13:29 PM »
Bump!

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 09:10:33 AM »
I've been doing more recordings with internal mics on my d5o........ sounds like the d100's are nearly as good at the d1's, without the extra size of the d1? anyone do any comparisons from d50, d1oo and d1?

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 10:22:56 AM »
I've been doing more recordings with internal mics on my d5o........ sounds like the d100's are nearly as good at the d1's, without the extra size of the d1? anyone do any comparisons from d50, d1oo and d1?
I haven't seen any comparisons with the D1, but you may want to take a look at the following for a D50/D100 mic comparison: https://soundcloud.com/sparrowsrest/comparison-recordings-made-with-the-sony-pcm-d50-pcm-d100-april-2014

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 11:16:35 AM »
thanks, Amir, I will check it out

Offline t.jay

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 04:17:40 PM »
Hey guys,

Is it possible to use the D100 as external microphone on my Mac (for Skype talks etc.)? Does it work via USB or do I need a special cable? Thank you for your help!

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 11:44:01 AM »
Guys, yesterday I was recording a concert via the PCM-D100 internal mics from a front-row seat. I was recording with the 48/24 setting, Low-mic continuation and the 100SNDB feature set to on. As I finished the first hour of recording and the concert entered some sort of silent mode, I stopped recording and started a new file. However, after almost 8 minutes of recording the PCM-D100 suddenly turned off, prompting me to think that I'd run out of battery juice. But when I turned it on, the recorder displayed 2 battery bars and the next recording smoothly went ahead for the rest of the concert -- another hour or so. Now, as strange as my question might sound, what do you think might have generated that problem? I have 18GB of free space on the internal memory and haven't yet resorted to using a memory card for the D100. Should this be cause for concern in future recordings?
Also -- and as a relevant issue, I'm wondering when I should consider replacing the PCM-D100 batteries. Currently it displays 2 bars, but I don't know to how many minutes/hours these remaining bars can be translated. As I'm visually impaired (totally blind), I have no choice but to ask someone to check the battery status for me -- for fear of ending up with no juice. On the other hand, getting rid of these batteries which still have some juice left might be overkill. It's a pity Sony hasn't added the option to make its recorder menus/options talk -- most Olympus LS recorders have this great feature for the visually impaired.
Thanks for your comments and insights

Offline schoepsnbox

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2014, 08:47:09 PM »
Guys, yesterday I was recording a concert via the PCM-D100 internal mics from a front-row seat. I was recording with the 48/24 setting, Low-mic continuation and the 100SNDB feature set to on. As I finished the first hour of recording and the concert entered some sort of silent mode, I stopped recording and started a new file. However, after almost 8 minutes of recording the PCM-D100 suddenly turned off, prompting me to think that I'd run out of battery juice. But when I turned it on, the recorder displayed 2 battery bars and the next recording smoothly went ahead for the rest of the concert -- another hour or so. Now, as strange as my question might sound, what do you think might have generated that problem? I have 18GB of free space on the internal memory and haven't yet resorted to using a memory card for the D100. Should this be cause for concern in future recordings?
Also -- and as a relevant issue, I'm wondering when I should consider replacing the PCM-D100 batteries. Currently it displays 2 bars, but I don't know to how many minutes/hours these remaining bars can be translated. As I'm visually impaired (totally blind), I have no choice but to ask someone to check the battery status for me -- for fear of ending up with no juice. On the other hand, getting rid of these batteries which still have some juice left might be overkill. It's a pity Sony hasn't added the option to make its recorder menus/options talk -- most Olympus LS recorders have this great feature for the visually impaired.
Thanks for your comments and insights

Did You accidentally turn the power switch off?  This unit does NOT lock the power switch even after the hold is engaged..I taped the power switch on last
I took it out..also Tried this deck at a local bar for a friends band with the internal mics and there was all sorts of brickwalling even tho the levels were not over..shame on SONY..this deck should say FONY on it..lots of issues with this one.  Not happy at All :facepalm:
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 08:48:58 PM by schoepsnbox »

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2014, 09:59:01 AM »
Did You accidentally turn the power switch off?  This unit does NOT lock the power switch even after the hold is engaged..I taped the power switch on last
I took it out..also Tried this deck at a local bar for a friends band with the internal mics and there was all sorts of brickwalling even tho the levels were not over..shame on SONY..this deck should say FONY on it..lots of issues with this one.  Not happy at All :facepalm:
No, but this hasn't yet happened to me. Unlike you, I very much like the PCM-D100's internal mics in concerts and venues. However, the PCM-D100 should be used with its Low-mic switch turned on in order for it not to distort. With the Low-mic switch, I can record very lound sounds even with the gain knob half-way or 75 percent up. Also, don't forget to use the supplied windscreen as it's a prerequisite for distortion-free recordings.

Offline Whatisvalis

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2014, 08:30:41 AM »
Anyone done any ambient field recording with the D100?  How's the noise level?

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2014, 10:28:05 AM »
Love the D100 for ambient recordings. Very low noise level.

Offline ilduclo

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2014, 10:52:33 AM »

^ I went ahead and listened to the comparison recordings of the internals of the d50 vs the d100. Quite a bit of diff, and then I tried a quieter music set, electronics and vocals with the d50 internals. There IS a lot of noise in it.  I never noticed much, since I've only recorded LOUD sets with it so far.... but, not worth the $800 to me so far.....if I get quiet bands with respectful audiences, my dpa omnis do the job, they actually work well for everything BUT the quiet shows with loud chatty audiences.

Offline Whatisvalis

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2014, 11:48:08 AM »
I will be traveling for 6 months so I really need a portable recorder I can get good street ambiences / field recordings with. I have an m10, which is fantastic for loud stuff, but too noisey for ambiences.

Is the d100 a step down from the D50 for these situations?

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2014, 11:51:02 AM »
I have the M10, D50, and D100. For ambient sounds I wouldn't think twice: D100 all the way.

Keep in mind the D100 also plays nice with external mice: even directly plugged in. I've used with some binaural mics (for ambient sounds) up through an EV RE20. All with success.

Some have reported the D100 does not do such a good job with really loud music: and that may be true (I have not tested myself). But for spoken voice, ambient sounds, and any other soft of quieter sounds: beautiful.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2014, 12:16:00 PM »
I have the M10, D50, and D100. For ambient sounds I wouldn't think twice: D100 all the way.

Keep in mind the D100 also plays nice with external mice: even directly plugged in. I've used with some binaural mics (for ambient sounds) up through an EV RE20. All with success.

Some have reported the D100 does not do such a good job with really loud music: and that may be true (I have not tested myself). But for spoken voice, ambient sounds, and any other soft of quieter sounds: beautiful.
Agreed! I've also seen/worked with all of these Sony recorders and can confidently say that the PCM-D100 offers the best internal mic/preamp performance -- currently own a D100 myself. As for loud music and sound sources, the trick is to use the Low-mike continuation physical switch on the left edge of the recorder, and that'll basically take care of any sort of audio. So far I've never resorted to the versatile Limiter in loud concerts with the Low-mike continuation switch set to On. Simply put, I absolutely love this recorder and -- in combination with my Sound Devices USBPre2 card/mixer -- I basically have a full-blown studio.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 12:18:34 PM by Amir »

Offline t.jay

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2014, 09:12:55 AM »
I have some problems with my windscreen. It seems to be too small! It is a nightmare to put it onto the D100. I have to stretch it with much force, otherwise it doesn't fit. Anyone with similar problems? Or could it be that I just have a badly manufactured exemplar of the windscreen?

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2014, 09:24:47 AM »
My windscreen is very tight. I find it relatively simple to put on, but I do have to give some attention and care to doing so. The benefit is it won't come off easily! I suppose you could have a windscreen that truly is too small. But I can't simply pull my windscreen on in a nanosecond. It probably takes me 30 seconds to put it on properly. But it seems to fit and do the job well once placed correctly.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2014, 09:43:58 AM »
I have some problems with my windscreen. It seems to be too small! It is a nightmare to put it onto the D100. I have to stretch it with much force, otherwise it doesn't fit. Anyone with similar problems? Or could it be that I just have a badly manufactured exemplar of the windscreen?
I don't call it a true nightmare, but I can confirm your findings. There's nothing wrong with your windscreen IMO. Interestingly, The PCM-M10's extra windscreen which should be ordered separately has the very same problems. The same can also be said about Olympus LS-100 and its $49 windscreen. My guess is that if manufacturers widen or lengthen their windscreens, they'll become loose. That said, however, I've always wondered why they haven't come up with a better solution.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2014, 08:52:43 AM »
Guys, Transom's review of the PCM-D100 is here -- http://transom.org/2014/sony-pcm-d100/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=sony-pcm-d100
It's a very interesting review especially from a broadcast/journalism-oriented perspective.

Offline yates7592

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2014, 11:03:48 AM »
Yeah a strange review. The lack of XLR's is a major stumbling block for me. The D100 is a great recorder with good pre's and ADC. I only used mine 2 or 3 times before I sold it because I found it too big for comfortable stealthing (being paired with the XLR-1 as well for P48). If you just need a minijack input I would recommend it.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2014, 12:28:10 PM »
@yates7592: I'm not a sound professional so I may be ignorant of the importance of XLR connectors. But my naive understanding is XLR connectors were important for:

1. better quality audio recordings
2. more secure connections

I have probably frowned upon non-XLR connectors in the past. However, I found that the Sony D100 has amazing sound quality when using the mini-jack connectors. This is with a wide variety of microphones. I could discern no downside at all (I may be a recording-novice, but my ears are pretty good.)

I thought the connections would be more "dubious". I was simply wrong about the D100. I found the connections very tight and secure. I think XLRs would be even better, but I'd grade the mini-jack connections on the D100 as "A" in terms of security/snugness, etc. I'd give XLR connectors an A+. Anything at the A level I'd be happy with. I realize there are some situations where the difference between the two connectors might make a practical difference: but in my own usage scenarios I experience no practical difference.

So am I missing something here? Are there other ways in which an XLR connector would be considered superior to mini-jack? My major concern was audio quality, and the D100 comes out A++++ on that.

Offline yates7592

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2014, 04:11:15 PM »
@mitchellm - yes xlr input becomes quite important when your mics are terminated with xlr's and you want to take advantage of that . Robust connection, fully balanced, zero interference - one less thing to worry about.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2014, 04:51:28 PM »
@mitchellm - yes xlr input becomes quite important when your mics are terminated with xlr's and you want to take advantage of that . Robust connection, fully balanced, zero interference - one less thing to worry about.
My hunch is that when one spends about $800 on a recorder without XLR, they consciously seek other factors such as audio quality. The PCM-D100 delivers on that front and as someone who owns Olympus LS-100 and has worked with the DR-100MKII, H6 and H4N I should make the bold proclamation that I'll never return to anything below the D100 in terms of preamp performance.
That said, I'm a broadcast-oriented individual and preamp performance is very important to me -- especially in ultra-quiet areas when dynamic mics or internal mics are used. Most people here use their devices to record concerts in conjunction with battery boxes/preamps/low-powered mics; so they might not/need not judge the D1000 the way I do.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2014, 07:09:43 PM »
@yates7592: Got it! I had completely forgotten about mics terminated with XLRs. None of mine are, so I can always use an XLR-to-mini-jack cable. Makes complete sense what you're saying.

I'm not in broadcast, but like Amir my main interests are in ambient sounds and spoken voice. Both of these are relatively quiet: especially relative to some bands. So, for me, high quality pre-amps in a small package is priority #1 to me. Lesser pre-amps don't work so well, or add noticeable background hiss. That's why I love the D100: very high quality pre-amps.

I should say that I've always been in search of the "perfect" audio recorder: one that I can use in my office, going other locations in my city for interviews, and even when traveling. The D100 is that all-in-one perfect answer. When at my university I can pair it with the Sound Devices Mix-Pre (or a SD USB Pre2) to do interviews with great lav mics. Can record in my office with a nice studio mic. When traveling far away I have 3 "travel" mics: small electret powered lav mic, small binaural mics, and a relatively small interview mic (Beyerdynamic M88). The flexibility the D100 gives me is fantastic.

I'll confess that if I were recording lots of loud music, with boisterous and unruly crowds, I'd probably opt for my Sony M10. Don't need the super quality pre-amps in those situations. The M10 works well with loud environments. And if something goes wrong, I'm out $200 instead of $800.

Offline flipp022

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2014, 05:13:44 AM »
sony pcm-d100 is too expensive, I test here both pcm-d100 and wmd6c

I get better details in the sound with sony wmd6c metal tape c 90 ,

on metal stand ,I use not dolby , only with low level live shows get I noise

but with loud live shows works it fine, more details in the sound as with the sony pcm-d100 .cheers
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 09:36:58 AM by flipp022 »

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2014, 09:27:01 AM »
Do you any audio samples of comparison between these two?Id like to listen to them.

Offline flipp022

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2014, 09:41:09 AM »
I delete samples , I must taped new show tonight , but maybe can I recorded new samples , of PC loudspeaker

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2014, 11:37:24 AM »
Both samples sound pretty bad. Not impressed with the older wmd6c.

On the D100 the record volume was set too high: so there's noticeable clipping/distortion. On the WMd6c the recording level is fine, but the audio quality is okay (at best). You wrote that your "PC loudspeaker" is okay, but clearly it's not too good. That may explain why you can't hear the difference. This kind of music, single piano playing, is something the D100 captures very well.

And, of course, you don't seem to mention what mic you are using. It could be, especially in this instance, that the D100 would get a better recording w/o the external mic (hard to know, really, from this sound sample).

I'd re-record, or re-test, but with the sound levels set appropriately for the D100. The compare with headphones instead of cheap computer speakers.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 11:55:17 AM by mitchellm »

Offline flipp022

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2014, 11:52:41 AM »
what I wants of my money is , is that the sony pcm-d100 recorder , is 100% better as a cassette recorder  of the year 1983 ,

and that is not so , Sometimes I find the cassette recorder  WMD6C better ,

with loud live shows , then hear I not the cassette recorder  Noise, okay my ears is al 69 years old , I is tapper sinds 1959 , is too not so good for my ears all the year in loud Noise,
but I think , I hear it good , why is the sony pcm-d100 recorder  not much better, as old thing ?

Ane

Offline flipp022

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2014, 12:05:54 PM »
what I wants of my money is , is that the sony pcm-d100 recorder , is 100% better as a cassette recorder  of the year 1983 ,

and that is not so , Sometimes I find the cassette recorder  WMD6C better ,

with loud live shows , then hear I not the cassette recorder  Noise, okay my ears is al 69 years old , I is tapper sinds 1959 , is too not so good for my ears all the year in loud Noise,
but I think , I hear it good , why is the sony pcm-d100 recorder  not much better, as old thing ?

Ane

I say al it fast recording of my pc loudspeakers , the sound is in windows in mp3 format , I play it on my pc , and recorded it , then wants I for my money , thar sony pcm-d100 is much better as cassette recorder , the mic is homemade so as Always , I used , what you hear , what is not so good comes by pc loudspeaker ,but it is, the difference of two recorder ,and that is a little bit, for a recorder of 800 dollar , that find I.

Offline imightgotothebeach

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2014, 03:00:15 PM »
Yeah a strange review. The lack of XLR's is a major stumbling block for me. The D100 is a great recorder with good pre's and ADC. I only used mine 2 or 3 times before I sold it because I found it too big for comfortable stealthing (being paired with the XLR-1 as well for P48). If you just need a minijack input I would recommend it.

Thought I'd chime in, too.  I bought one of these and a Zoom H5 at the same time.  Comparing the built-in mics, the Sony sounded much better (and the build quality like others have mentioned is fantastic), but for me the Sony is so incredibly limited (mics aren't removable/ no XLRS/ etc)  I couldn't justify the $$$.

Offline jmerin

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2014, 09:16:04 AM »
I take it that this deck has issues still? I love my m10. But I hear that you cannot put the deck on hold.
Mics: Schoeps MK4's | Schoeps MK41's | Schoeps Mk21's
Pre-Amps: Schoeps VMS02ib | Nbox Platinum KCY
Cables: KCY 250/5 Ig (2)
Recorders: Sony M10  | Tascam 70D l Edirol R-44

Offline flipp022

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #34 on: September 22, 2014, 01:12:51 PM »
sony pcm-d100 , it comes from the factory in china, for 70 dollar.
here for $95.39 , http://www.wrenthamwest.org/pants.php?id=sony-pcmd100-portable-highresolution-recorder-p-14352.html
cheers
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 03:14:02 AM by flipp022 »

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2014, 07:58:56 AM »
Well that is a great price but im a little apprehensive that ill receive anything,if anyone else gets one post here. ;)

Offline flipp

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2014, 11:58:26 AM »
Well that is a great price but im a little apprehensive that ill receive anything,if anyone else gets one post here. ;)

Sorry I even visited the link. They list a Sony M-10 carrying case @ $86.54 while they list the recorder itself @ $13.68. At least as bothersome is the mismatch between the company name displayed on the webpage and the actual url. Too many warning signs to even consider placing an order.

Offline flipp022

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2014, 12:37:45 PM »
you has equal , the website want Steal your money , look out
 

Offline t.jay

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2014, 04:52:47 AM »
Does anybody know the difference between the "Limiter" function and the "S/N 100db" function? In the manual there is written that the 100db function is better for quiet recordings because it results in lower noise. But I made some tests with my Sony PCM D100 and I can't hear a difference when the 100db is off (and the limiter is on instead). Can anyone explain in simple words when and for what reason I should use the "S/N 100db" function instead of the "Limiter" function? Thank yo so much!!!

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2014, 06:23:13 AM »
Does anybody know the difference between the "Limiter" function and the "S/N 100db" function? In the manual there is written that the 100db function is better for quiet recordings because it results in lower noise. But I made some tests with my Sony PCM D100 and I can't hear a difference when the 100db is off (and the limiter is on instead). Can anyone explain in simple words when and for what reason I should use the "S/N 100db" function instead of the "Limiter" function? Thank yo so much!!!
The S/N 100DB function provides you with a better signal-to-noise ratio when recording. However, that improvement isn't noticeable in many instances to our so-called "naked ears" and you need a very quiet place to observe or demonstrate that. When this feature is active, you can't use the limiter. That is, they can't be used simultaneously.
As for the limiter, it allows you to avoid audio clipping by recording at a lower level. With PCM-D100 this works by lowering the volume by 12DB or so, and the justification is that increasing the volume later -- say on the computer/in the post -- is easier than dealing with distorted audio which can't be fixed in almost all circumstances.
I myself don't use the S/N 100DB feature unless I'm recording in ultra-quiet places -- a far cry from what you normally encounter in the world. Under such a circumstance you might get the benefits of quieter recordings.

HTH.

Offline Whatisvalis

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2014, 02:01:16 PM »
Just thought I'd bump this and see how those who have adopted the D100 are getting along?

I'm really having issues with the price considering a used D50 can be had for $250-$300.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2014, 02:35:12 PM »
Just thought I'd bump this and see how those who have adopted the D100 are getting along?

I'm really having issues with the price considering a used D50 can be had for $250-$300.
That's indeed a valid concern -- I myself grappled with the very same dilemma. However, if your major concern is an upgraded D50 experience (by that I primarily mean enhanced audio quality and improved SNr), the PCM-D100 would be hard to ignore as a viable option. As far as I'm concerned, I've been unabashedly using the D100 in places where there has been no need for stealth recording and the D100 -- mounted on a tripod -- hasn't disappointed me at all.

Offline BlindGuyEars

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2014, 02:39:51 PM »
I'm currently a happy M10 owner, using it with a Church Audio pre and DPA 4060's.

Questions about the 100:

Does the unit supply enough power for my DPA's?  The recorder itself is bigger than the M10, but if the preamps are excellent and the unit can power my mics, then I might be able to eliminate one box, one cable and one 9V battery from the set up. :)

If you record to one of the DSD formats, how do you then get the files into PCM for any post processing?  And, are the arguable benefits of DSD negated by that conversion to PCM?

I'm blind as well so Amir, if you're reading this, have you recorded anything in DSD and which software did you use to edit the results?  I usually clean things up in Sonar and Sound Forge, but both of those deal strictly with PCM.


Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2014, 03:19:44 PM »
I'm currently a happy M10 owner, using it with a Church Audio pre and DPA 4060's.

Questions about the 100:

Does the unit supply enough power for my DPA's?  The recorder itself is bigger than the M10, but if the preamps are excellent and the unit can power my mics, then I might be able to eliminate one box, one cable and one 9V battery from the set up. :)

If you record to one of the DSD formats, how do you then get the files into PCM for any post processing?  And, are the arguable benefits of DSD negated by that conversion to PCM?

I'm blind as well so Amir, if you're reading this, have you recorded anything in DSD and which software did you use to edit the results?  I usually clean things up in Sonar and Sound Forge, but both of those deal strictly with PCM.
Well, currently I don't have those DPA's to test them with the D100. Quite interestingly, A couple of months ago I was looking for a high-end set of so-called stealth mics to complement the PCM-D100 and was even willing to pay the proverbial arms and legs for them. However, having listened to many recordings made by them online and having had my own D100 in action for some time, I came to the conclusion that The D100's internal mics are true gems in and out of themselves -- withought an iota of exaggeration. Of course, I'm not an stealth recorder -- I even take my own tripod to the conserts and venues I attend; as such, my use might radically differ from yours. But if stealth recording isn't your major concern, the D100's internal mics -- especially with the Low-mic continuation switch and the provided windscreen at work -- would do a fantastic job. I can assure you that the D100 preamps are the best thing you can buy with less than $1000.
As for DSD, I don't use it at all. Honestly recording in DSD isn't worth it when I can't easily edit those files. So I consider DSD a potential plus -- or an investment -- for the future. Some might consider the D100's DSD feature a gimmick, but I believe Sony could have developed this recorder without any DSD-related features and still could have sold it for $795 if their concern had been to silence DSD naysayers. So, IMO, it's good to have DSD as it might prove much more useful in the future with the adoption of the format.

Offline cosmickc

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2014, 09:26:22 AM »
Question.  I received a catalog from Andorama and it says the Sony PCM-100 "Records 4 external inputs in two pairs as two stereo audio files."  Is this true? I don't find this claim anywhere else.

Thanks

KC

Offline t.jay

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2014, 03:13:02 PM »
Question.  I received a catalog from Andorama and it says the Sony PCM-100 "Records 4 external inputs in two pairs as two stereo audio files."  Is this true?

That's definitely wrong! The PCM D100 has a mic input and a line input (analogue/optical). Both are minijacks. It is definitely not possible to record more than one input at once.

Offline cosmickc

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2014, 07:38:15 PM »
Question.  I received a catalog from Andorama and it says the Sony PCM-100 "Records 4 external inputs in two pairs as two stereo audio files."  Is this true?

That's definitely wrong! The PCM D100 has a mic input and a line input (analogue/optical). Both are minijacks. It is definitely not possible to record more than one input at once.

Thank you!  I thought it was a typo.  Not a 4 track recorder at all.

Offline ghibliss

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2014, 02:48:24 PM »
The recorder can be set to record both a pcm digital file as well as an mp3 file simultaneously!  This is listed in the literature and is what they are referring to.

Offline weroflu

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2014, 02:26:20 AM »
Anyone actually using the D100:

Can you give some real world comparisons of the D100 mic preamps to other known recorders/outboard preamps.




Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2014, 09:17:27 AM »
The PCM-D100 is a wonderful recorder. The quality of audio recordings is much higher quality than, e.g., the PCM M10 (also a great recorder). Very quiet preamps. Very good sound. Works well with built-in mics, plug-in mics, or mics via something like the MixPre-D. I have not heard a portable recorder (in anywhere near the same price range) with the same quality of sound.

However, if you are recording only loud music (as probably do most people on this forum) then the D100 may not be worth the price for you. With really loud sounds, the "quiet" preamps mean much less.

On the other hand, the more you record quiet music, audio interviews, ambient sounds: that's where the D100 really shines due to the high quality pre-amps.

Transom.org recently ran a review of this recorder. Check them out.

Offline yates7592

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #50 on: October 29, 2014, 09:41:24 AM »
During the brief time I owned a D100, I did a very quick A/B test against my M10, and the D100 was noticeably quieter, even to my cloth ears. 

Offline weroflu

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2014, 07:17:59 AM »
Hello Yates or any previous posters:

I am still trying to get a sense of the sound of the mic preamps on the D100. No one yet has offered a comparison to something that I know the sound of. I'm somewhat tempted to spring for one now as the price is low combined with strong dollar:euro.


Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2014, 07:22:33 AM »

I am still trying to get a sense of the sound of the mic preamps on the D100. No one yet has offered a comparison to something that I know the sound of. I'm somewhat tempted to spring for one now as the price is low combined with strong dollar:euro.



It's hard to respond when you don't give us any idea of "something that I know the sound of". What kinds of products are you thinking of. Many people at this forum know the sound of the Sony M10 and D50. And there have been countless comparisons of the M10 (especially) against other recorders. Right now I'd be totally guessing at what you want in terms of comparison.

Offline weroflu

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2014, 08:09:12 AM »
Sorry if I was vague. In a previous post I asked for a comparison to basically any other preamp. I got some responses like it's quiet or better than this or that, but what I'm looking for is something more qualitative such as: transients are quicker, better low end, smoother, sharper than this or that preamp, etc. I am familiar with the m10 but the responses so far were it's better, which doesn't tell me much.

If anyone has a clip or link to recordings done with the D100 and external mics that would be better.


Offline spyder9

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2014, 01:16:09 PM »

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2014, 01:38:57 AM »
I'd also love to hear some tapes with the d100 using external mics too! Preferably with Schoeps>preamp>d100 and Schoeps>same preamp>m10 so that I can truly hear the difference between the two decks ;) But I know that's a lot to ask!
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline yates7592

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2014, 04:09:20 AM »
I have a few shows I taped with the D100 and various external mics:

DPA 4061 > Battery box > D100

and

DPA 4006 > XLR-1 > D100

Not a comp in any shape or form, but just a flavour. I can up a few samples if anyone's interested.

Offline weroflu

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #57 on: December 03, 2014, 04:21:39 AM »
interested in those samples yates

I would also like to hear schoeps>phantom power>d100

The d100 spec is 5v PIP so a battery box is not a must, another good selling point.

Offline yates7592

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2014, 11:19:04 AM »
Here's a sample of each mic going into the D100:

Files (53.4 MB total)
DPA4061-BB D100.rar
DPA4006-XLR1-D100.rar
 
Will be deleted on
10 December, 2014 

Download link
http://we.tl/aoabJcV72X 

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #59 on: December 03, 2014, 01:22:43 PM »
interested in those samples yates

I would also like to hear schoeps>phantom power>d100

The d100 spec is 5v PIP so a battery box is not a must, another good selling point.


Where do you find this info i don't get that information in any google search,if the d100 does output 5 volts plug in power than this would be a great combo with dpa4061 ,but i doubt this is correct.Anyone confirm?



Offline weroflu

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #60 on: December 03, 2014, 01:47:55 PM »
http://www.thomann.de/gb/sony_pcm_d100.htm

Sony PCM-D100, portable Audio-Recorder, LPCM Recording up to 24-Bit/192 kHz and DSD (Direct Stream Digital) with 2.8MHz Resolution, thomann two swiveling Condenser Mics 0°/90°/120° Angle adjustable, Frequency Range 20Hz - 30kHz, Sensitivity: -31dB/Pa, build-in Noise Limiter, 100dB Signal/Noise Ratio, supported Audio Formats: Linear PCM WAV up to 24Bit/192kHz, DSD Format with 2,8 MHz Sampling Rate, MP3: 320kbps or 128kbps, Playback only: thomann Flac, AAC & WMA, Super Bit Mapping, Panning Switch, Digital Peak Limiter, DSP- and Audio-Editing Functions, Digital Pitch Control, Low-Cut Filter, 5 Sec. Pre-Recording Buffer, Dualrecording of LPCM-WAV and MP3 Files, Backlite LED Display, Volume-Switch, build-in Speaker, 32GB internal Memory, Expansion-Slot for Memory thomann Stick and SD Card up to 128 GB,
5V Plugin Power
external Microphones, -20dB Pad, Inputs (1/8" Mini Jack): Line In, Mic-In, Optical-In, Outputs (1/8" Mini Jack): Line Out, Optical Out, Headphone Out, 6V Connection for Power Supply, MicroB USB2 Connection, incl. wireless thomann Remote Control, Windscreen, Bag, USB-Cable, Batterys and Audio Editing-Software Sound Forge Audio Studio

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #61 on: December 03, 2014, 01:53:07 PM »
I'm not directly responding to the 5V issue, but I've directly connected many a mic into the D100 with outstanding results. This includes dynamic mics needing a lot of gain (e.g. even an EV RE-20). Background noise: nada. Also used with lav mics and other mics needing electret connection: works, once again, beautifully.


Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #62 on: December 03, 2014, 03:36:33 PM »
I would love to own (2) of these so that I had one for each of my rigs :) But I really want to do a comp and run mics>littlebox>d100 + littlebox>m10 so I can hear the true difference between the two decks. Is there a comp already out there like that?

I just DLd Nick's The Machine tape from the other night. Can't wait to hear it :)
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

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Offline spyder9

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2014, 08:29:07 PM »
Here's an acoustic show I recorded this summer when I had the D100. 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=171121.0

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2015, 10:11:09 AM »
Guys, Sony has released a new firmware update for Sony PCM-D100. It's V1.02 and makes some enhancements to file splitting on memory cards. It's at http://www.sony.co.uk/support/en/content/cnt-dwnl/prd-dna/sony-pcmd100-firmware-update-ver102/PCM-D100

Offline birdboy01

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2015, 10:53:40 AM »
great thanks for this! 
Ive been using the remote and can't split on the fly.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2015, 12:24:09 PM »
@Amir: Many thanks. I didn't know about this update. Now I'm up-to-D100-speed again. Much appreciated.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2015, 01:14:43 PM »
@mitchellm and @birdboy01: you're most welcome. Sony PCM-D100 rocks here too!

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2015, 01:23:16 PM »
$800 for the d100 and used SD702s are selling for $1000 or so.  Why buy a d100?

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2015, 01:43:50 PM »
Owned the 702-- besides XLR's, other benefits over the D100   -- 10 sec preroll compared to Sony's 5 sec. Unbelievably rich and deep menu, SD is built like a tank.
Still, D100 has that Sony warmth ..

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2015, 01:54:51 PM »
@2manyrocks: SoundDevices makes fantastic gear. I have the USBPre 2 and I love it. But you are comparing a used price with new price: not exactly fair. New to new: $2,000 to $800. Is the SD702 worth the price: I'm sure it is. SoundDevices rocks!

But the D100 gives me ultra-portability. It's noticeably smaller than the 702, I can wear it on my belt (important for some stealth recording of ambient situations). It is my "travel studio" where I can use on its own, use with small binaural mics, use with a nice lapel mic, or use with something like the Beyer M88, or use on its own. All that gear can be packed into a very small space, and gives me great flexibility. The recorded sound is beautiful.

I'm sure the 702 is better for other kinds of uses. They are both fantastic tools.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 02:14:54 PM by mitchellm »

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2015, 02:12:22 PM »
Bottom line is D100 sound, especially in DSD mode.  Since I'm a festival guy, I like the lower power consumption from the D100 and the ability to use SDXC media.  The SD702 is a great recorder though, but if sound is your number 1 thing then the D100 wins.


Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #72 on: February 20, 2015, 03:17:08 PM »
Would the proper price comparison be d100 at $800 plus mixd pre at $800 vs. 702 at $2,000?

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2015, 04:15:35 PM »
The proper price comparison would be d100 vs. 702. I'm not really sure where you're going with all of this. Seems a bit hopeless, perhaps juvenile. Or perhaps you're just having a bad day.

If you don't need something that's very portable (i.e wear on a belt, put discretely into a purse, etc.) then the D100 isn't for you. Simple eh?

The SD702 isn't nearly as portable as the D100. That's neither a plus nor a minus. Different horses. And for the D100's primary usage scenario the fact that is does not use XLR connectors is a plus. Normally this would not be the case, but right-angled mini-jack connectors take up, once again, much less space relative to XLRs. For obsessive gearheads trying to do a point-by-point comparison it might look bad, but for people needing something very portable, with high quality, the various design decisions Sony made are quite good and user-friendly. And, of course, the D100 is perfectly fine for capturing some things just using its internal mics.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2015, 04:42:05 PM »
I'm trying to understand where the d100 fits within the overall scheme of available recorders.  It is only 2 tracks and no xlrs, yet the $800 price exceeds other 2 tracks with xlr inputs except the 702.  From that, I'm trying to understand what benefit is gained for spending $800 for a d100?  If you plan to use xlr mics, looks like you'd be stuck with an external preamp,too. 

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #75 on: February 20, 2015, 04:54:33 PM »
Aha, got it! I just use an XLR to mini-jack cable. Works fine. I've run an EV RE20 directly into the Sony D100 with great results! (Not a very realistic use case, but you get the idea.) I actually use a Beyer M88 as my "studio mic" when I'm traveling as it's pretty small, great sound, and works fantastic with the D100. At any rate the XLR to mini-jack cables I've used worked fine. In fact I notice no discernible difference in "background noise" when using the same mic via D100 versus using my USB Pre2.

Perhaps another key usage difference is I'm almost always using one mic (for ambient sound, for podcasts, etc.). In the case of 2 mics (e.g. 2 people with lapel mics in an interview situation) I use a MixPre with the D100. But that's primarily because I'm both the sound-guy and the interviewer at the same time: I don't have the ability to check levels while recording. The USBPre and the MixPre both have wonderfully effective limiters.

I think if I was doing a lot of 2 mic stuff, I'd go for the SD 702. It would be a much simpler setup. But 90% of the time I'm using one mic, and portability is the crucial factor. If, and when, I use 2 mic setups (and in those cases portability is really not a huge factor) then the USBPre or MixPre, or of course, 702 would be better solutions for me (especially since I always have to do double-duty).

I hope this helps a bit.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2015, 05:25:04 PM »
I run a pair of Schoeps mics into one of my stereo preamps, which is run in front of my D100.  From the preamp I have a stereo cable that goes from two female XLRs to a single stereo right angle 1/8 mini-connector.  The 1/8 mini connector is plugged into the line-in jack.  For loud music I use the 20db pad on the left side of the of the D100.  It all works great.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2015, 05:36:54 PM »
I'd buy a d100 and use an external pre any day of the week over the 702

DSD is fantastic - I just wish someone made a 6-8 channel DSD recorder
Music can at the least least explain you and at the most expand you
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Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #78 on: February 20, 2015, 05:55:57 PM »
Since this is a taper forum ... I don't record music all that much (as a percentage of all my recording work). But when I do I use the Soundman binaural mics or the Church CA-14s. Both are stereo but end in a mini-jack. Both work just fine with the D100. But for me the real "test case" is when using mics that need a lot more gain. If I were only taping music and relying only on something like the Church CA-14s (or something more expensive) with a mobile pre-amp, then I'd probably mainly use a Sony M10. Smaller, cheaper, and given all the various factors would work as well as the D100.

So in some cases the M10 might be the better choice, for my usage the D100 rocks, and in other cases the SD 702 would definitely be the best choice.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 05:58:15 PM by mitchellm »

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2015, 05:57:31 PM »
That helps and your patience is appreciated.     
 
There must be ten or twenty other handheld portable recorders that cost much less than the D100, some with XLR inputs and some with more channels.  For you guys to bypass all the other recorder options and spend so much extra money on the D100, you must see some advantages that I haven't quite yet grasped or figured out on my own.  That's where I need help understanding what you see as advantageous and worth the extra money?

In my own situation, I figure I could get a used SD702 for $1000-$1300 and either use my Rode NT45 omnis or Line Audio CM3s unless I also upgrade mics.    Now the SD has been out for a while and uses CF cards.  It's also a firewire unit.  The D100 is newer technology and no firewire is involved.    The SD100 is also smaller and uses AAs.   The SD has the reputation of being extremely reliable under harsh operating conditions and has an aluminum case.   If one tried to use the external mics on the D100, it wouldn't be the easiest thing to put on a stand.   You can tell I'm going back and forth in my mind here.   

So what pros/cons do you see between the two options? 

 
 

     


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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2015, 06:07:14 PM »
I'm with 2manyrocks - for pure 2-channel, I would buy a 702 in a heartbeat over a D100 for the reasons he mentioned.  I'm sure the D100 is a great recorder based on my great experience with the M10 and D50, but the SD recorders are in another class entirely, and you're getting top-quality preamps built in also.  I suppose if you own good external pres already then you wouldn't feel so inclined to get one of their recorders.  As much as I wish I could afford a 702, I wonder how much improvement I would really see (hear?) over my current chain of FP24 > M10.

To H2O's statement: I still do not see the advantages of DSD at all - can someone please enlighten me?  To me, unless you're making SACDs or keeping your DSD recording entirely in the DSD domain and using a DSD-capable DAC to listen to it, there's no point.  What am I missing?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 06:41:45 PM by voltronic »
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2015, 07:36:58 PM »
To H2O's statement: I still do not see the advantages of DSD at all - can someone please enlighten me?  To me, unless you're making SACDs or keeping your DSD recording entirely in the DSD domain and using a DSD-capable DAC to listen to it, there's no point.  What am I missing?

Simple.  Better sound quality.  Period.  ...and yes you leave your files in DSD format and play them back in DSD format either on your D100, on a portable X3 or X5 player like I have, or connected to your computer through a DAC.  I'm still deciding how I ultimately want to archive, but at minimum it will be saving the master DSD files.  Right now I'm also saving the converted 24/48 files.

If you have no desire to bother with the higher quality files, then forget it, you get no benefit from DSD.  If you want to record music and squeeze another layer of great sound out of your live recordings...another layer of realism, then IMHO paying the extra $400 or $500 is probably worth it and you'll love DSD.  But keep in mind I've already got five grand in my bag, so adding another 10% for that extra layer of realism is definitely money well spent for my rig.  No it's not a black and white difference, but it's a definite step up. 

I was a bit skeptical, but the korg users were pretty universal.  Now I'm a believer as well.  This absolutely isn't snake oil.

Anyway, I'm playing most of my recordings on my Fiio X3 and I'm absolutely in love with it.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 07:40:34 PM by tonedeaf »

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2015, 08:20:41 PM »
To H2O's statement: I still do not see the advantages of DSD at all - can someone please enlighten me?  To me, unless you're making SACDs or keeping your DSD recording entirely in the DSD domain and using a DSD-capable DAC to listen to it, there's no point.  What am I missing?

Simple.  Better sound quality.  Period.  ...and yes you leave your files in DSD format and play them back in DSD format either on your D100, on a portable X3 or X5 player like I have, or connected to your computer through a DAC.  I'm still deciding how I ultimately want to archive, but at minimum it will be saving the master DSD files.  Right now I'm also saving the converted 24/48 files.

If you have no desire to bother with the higher quality files, then forget it, you get no benefit from DSD.  If you want to record music and squeeze another layer of great sound out of your live recordings...another layer of realism, then IMHO paying the extra $400 or $500 is probably worth it and you'll love DSD.  But keep in mind I've already got five grand in my bag, so adding another 10% for that extra layer of realism is definitely money well spent for my rig.  No it's not a black and white difference, but it's a definite step up. 

I was a bit skeptical, but the korg users were pretty universal.  Now I'm a believer as well.  This absolutely isn't snake oil.

Anyway, I'm playing most of my recordings on my Fiio X3 and I'm absolutely in love with it.

Well I suppose if you can really hear the improvement then it's worth it to you.  I wasn't suggesting it's snake oil.  But it seems that many people out there (clearly not you) are unaware that their DACs / players don't decode DSD directly, and then what they are listening to is DSD transcoded to PCM and then out to the DAC.  Once you have to convert to PCM before you hear it - that's where it seems silly to me.  That, and the fact that you can't edit DSD without the software first converting to PCM, unless you're on a Pyramix system.  If you have the right equipment though, then it may certainly make sense to go DSD

I wonder if the high quality you are hearing has more to do with the D100 itself and its improved ADC / DAC rather than the DSD format.  I think I remember seeing a comp somewhere of the D100 at 24/192 vs. DSD, but I didn't bother listening as my DAC doesn't decode DSD - again, the DSD files would have to be converted by software to PCM to pass to my PCM-only DAC, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison.
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2015, 08:21:23 PM »
I'd buy a d100 and use an external pre any day of the week over the 702

DSD is fantastic - I just wish someone made a 6-8 channel DSD recorder

Also to add - I can't stand the pre-amps in the SD 7xx series

I owned both 702 and a Korg MR-1 and did some comparisons (Schoeps > PSP-2 > split to the 702 and MR-1 and the MR-1 always sounded better - better AD on the MR-1 when running DSD


 I ran the pre's of the 702 a number of times inside, outside, different caps and placements - only when running with the mk21's did I remotely like the sound being produced - I sold the 702 within 5 months of owning it because of this (pre's where no where near the quality of Grace, EAA, or Schoeps

Person I sold it too sold it shortly for the exact same reason

IMO SD 7xx series is not a worthy all in one
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 11:23:29 PM by H₂O »
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2015, 09:03:15 PM »
I wonder if the high quality you are hearing has more to do with the D100 itself and its improved ADC / DAC rather than the DSD format.  I think I remember seeing a comp somewhere of the D100 at 24/192 vs. DSD, but I didn't bother listening as my DAC doesn't decode DSD - again, the DSD files would have to be converted by software to PCM to pass to my PCM-only DAC, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Very valid questions.  Trying to answer the same questions when I first got the D100, I posted a comp.  Not too many people posted their impressions.  The samples compared an m10 at 24/48 against a d100 at 24/48.  Then I compared the m10 24/48 against the d100 at DSD but with the files converted back to 24/48.  Really not much difference could be heard, though there was some consensus that the converted DSD file had a very slightly better sound.  The main difference I could hear was in playing back the DSD file directly on my players. 

I recently bought a great priced D50.  I'm going to record multiple stages this summer.  :)  I'm kinda curious to see if the D50 sounds exactly like the M10.  I'm sure they've been comped here before...gotta do a search to see what I find.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 09:07:44 PM by tonedeaf »

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2015, 09:24:04 PM »
I wonder if the high quality you are hearing has more to do with the D100 itself and its improved ADC / DAC rather than the DSD format.  I think I remember seeing a comp somewhere of the D100 at 24/192 vs. DSD, but I didn't bother listening as my DAC doesn't decode DSD - again, the DSD files would have to be converted by software to PCM to pass to my PCM-only DAC, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Very valid questions.  Trying to answer the same questions when I first got the D100, I posted a comp.  Not too many people posted their impressions.  The samples compared an m10 at 24/48 against a d100 at 24/48.  Then I compared the m10 24/48 against the d100 at DSD but with the files converted back to 24/48.  Really not much difference could be heard, though there was some consensus that the converted DSD file had a very slightly better sound.  The main difference I could hear was in playing back the DSD file directly on my players. 

I recently bought a great priced D50.  I'm going to record multiple stages this summer.  :)  I'm kinda curious to see if the D50 sounds exactly like the M10.  I'm sure they've been comped here before...gotta do a search to see what I find.

There's the rub I guess - unless you have a DAC that directly decodes DSD you really can't make a true comparison between formats.  For instance, I'm pretty sure the X3 doesn't decode DSD, but the X5 does, so there could theoretically be a difference in sound between the original DSD played on the X5 and the converted PCM played on the X3.  I have downloaded some DSD / DFF files and listened on my computer using Foobar, and they sound no different than high-rate PCM.  But Foobar is just decoding and resampling to 24/96 PCM to pass to my DAC so unless I shell out for a much more expensive DAC, I'll never hear true DSD.

Having used both the D50 for quite a while and then the M10, I think they sound pretty much the same, at least for line-in.  The D50 has far superior built-in mics, but the M10 beats it in size, weight, battery usage, etc.  The D50 is a really great unit though.
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2015, 11:16:10 PM »
Comparisons between m10, d50 and d100  with the same external preamp would be interesting.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2015, 08:03:50 AM »
The X3 can play DSD files!  It was included in the firmware update!  The X5 requires a firmware update to play DSD as well.  So if one resamples I would assume they both resample.  Nothing I have read suggest they don't decode the DSD files

I wonder if the high quality you are hearing has more to do with the D100 itself and its improved ADC / DAC rather than the DSD format.  I think I remember seeing a comp somewhere of the D100 at 24/192 vs. DSD, but I didn't bother listening as my DAC doesn't decode DSD - again, the DSD files would have to be converted by software to PCM to pass to my PCM-only DAC, so it wouldn't be a fair comparison.

Very valid questions.  Trying to answer the same questions when I first got the D100, I posted a comp.  Not too many people posted their impressions.  The samples compared an m10 at 24/48 against a d100 at 24/48.  Then I compared the m10 24/48 against the d100 at DSD but with the files converted back to 24/48.  Really not much difference could be heard, though there was some consensus that the converted DSD file had a very slightly better sound.  The main difference I could hear was in playing back the DSD file directly on my players. 

I recently bought a great priced D50.  I'm going to record multiple stages this summer.  :)  I'm kinda curious to see if the D50 sounds exactly like the M10.  I'm sure they've been comped here before...gotta do a search to see what I find.

There's the rub I guess - unless you have a DAC that directly decodes DSD you really can't make a true comparison between formats.  For instance, I'm pretty sure the X3 doesn't decode DSD, but the X5 does, so there could theoretically be a difference in sound between the original DSD played on the X5 and the converted PCM played on the X3.  I have downloaded some DSD / DFF files and listened on my computer using Foobar, and they sound no different than high-rate PCM.  But Foobar is just decoding and resampling to 24/96 PCM to pass to my DAC so unless I shell out for a much more expensive DAC, I'll never hear true DSD.

Having used both the D50 for quite a while and then the M10, I think they sound pretty much the same, at least for line-in.  The D50 has far superior built-in mics, but the M10 beats it in size, weight, battery usage, etc.  The D50 is a really great unit though.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 08:27:31 AM by jbell »
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2015, 05:40:39 PM »
The X3 can play DSD files!  It was included in the firmware update!  The X5 requires a firmware update to play DSD as well.  So if one resamples I would assume they both resample.  Nothing I have read suggest they don't decode the DSD files

Ahh, didn't know they did that - good to know.  B&H was showing the X3 as discontinued and didn't mention anything about DSD, but I knew the X5 supported it.
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2015, 05:53:23 PM »
Apparently still in stock at Adorama.

How do you edit DSD?  Looks Reaper, for example, won't work with DSD. 

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2015, 06:22:01 PM »
Apparently still in stock at Adorama.

How do you edit DSD?  Looks Reaper, for example, won't work with DSD.

Korg's free version of Audiogate has some basic functionality for normalizing files and converting to PCM.  There are a number of high end software packages out there, such as Pyramix.  Older unlicensed versions are floating around.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2015, 06:23:02 PM »
Korg audiogate gives you basic editing functions

- changing levels
- tracking
- copying between channels

Pyramix is the main program
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2015, 09:00:20 AM »
Some of the discussion in this thread had me thinking, so I did a personal comp last night.  I took my favorite DSD recorded song from a recent Lotus show and saved it in 24/196 and 24/48 using Audiogate to do the conversion.  Then I transferred the DSD, 24/196, and 24/48 files to both my D100 and my Fiio X3 to have a listen.

After converting to 24/196, the PCM file is a larger file than the DSD file by about 50%.  Even after I FLACed the file, it was still larger than the DSD file.

My listening setup was my headphone rig...the D100 or Fiio X3 headphone jack >  PanAm tube-based headphone amp > Sennheiser HD700 headphones.  Not the best, but certainly a higher end sound reproduction system.

I didn't spend much time comping the sound produced from the two devices.  They both sound outstanding and were really close, but if I had to choose I thought the X3 sounded just slightly better than the D100.

I was a little surprised by how much better the DSD and 24/196 sound over the 24/48 files.  Of course, the result is expected, but given all of the discussion over the years here on ts.com about how you don't get much from higher sample rates, I didn't expect to hear as much of a difference as I heard.  Better overall clarity and depth is heard in the higher resolution files, especially in the lows. 

The DSD and 24/196 files are close, but the DSD file is the fairly clear winner over the 24/196 PCM file.  The DSD file has a cleaner presentation and overall more 'I'm back at the show' feel to it.  The soundstage and overall air you hear is better on the DSD files. 

One of these days, I'll do a similar comp, except change the sample rates at capture.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 09:08:42 AM by tonedeaf »

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2015, 08:12:33 PM »
I think it has to do with transient response - based the fact the when sound is generate from many sources at many points in space all wave forms of sound begin at different points in time and the brain can subtily sense this based on the complexities of the structure of the ear - and the fact you have 2 ears
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 07:43:46 PM by H₂O »
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2015, 09:43:40 AM »
I saw a news report the other day saying that Sony are considering dropping the manufacture of many of their products to concentrate on their Film and Play Station divisions.

This could mean that they no longer produce audio recorders, so look after your kit.
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2015, 07:20:40 PM »
On the one hand, Sony released the D100 with DSD ability and they've also recently announced some pricey audio memory card.  I'd be surprised if Sony discontinued these products.  If anything, I'd say Sony may be trying to gain some ground for its DSD format by releasing the D100. 

Except for Audiogate, looks like DSD capable editing software is rather pricey.  Between the recorder, software and a DSD capable player, you could spend quite a bit.   

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2015, 11:37:17 AM »
Sonys position in the market seems very strange to me, they produce very high end Camcorders and video cameras, used by many TV companies, but they don't make a truly professional audio recorder, (XLR inputs, Time code etc).

The D100 and M10 only appear on the Sony professional web site so it would appear that they are aimed at that market, but they are not really suitable for use as anything other than a backup recorder.

As for DSD, no one seems sure what to do with it, the pro video people don't use it, as their editing software cant handle it, ( I speak from experience ) and video sound ends up as 16 or 24 bit/48k anyway.
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2015, 12:32:48 PM »
Hopefully we are still on topic with D100:)  Actually this would apply to most all consumer digital audio products.  I tried recording digi in to the D100 from my oppo bdp-100 blu ray with the hope of upsampling with the Sony.
:((  That crummy scms / prevented the copy.
I'm wondering if it would still defeat a copy if a macbook was the source. Im going to pick up a dual 3.5mm toslink and see what happens...any experiences?

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2015, 12:41:15 PM »

:((  That crummy scms / prevented the copy.


Are you sure it was SCMS bit that is incompatible and not the SPDIF 'word' format that is the issue?  I have a D100 but I don't intend to use its digital input capabilities, but back when I wanted to use the digi-input on the D50, it was only compatible with the more restrictive SPDIF standard, so it wouldn't play nicely with most of the digital devices on the market at the time the D50 was released.  This issue comes up every now and then on taperssection and I can never remember the specific explanation, but a search of history would provide the necessary details.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2015, 12:53:34 PM »
thanks tone deaf I'll check previous threads. The d100  meters display the dig signal, however the unit remains locked in rec/pause mode with "no digital".

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2015, 12:58:20 PM »
As for DSD, no one seems sure what to do with it, the pro video people don't use it, as their editing software cant handle it, ( I speak from experience ) and video sound ends up as 16 or 24 bit/48k anyway.

I never knew how to spell DSD before I bought a D100 in November, so my knowledge is limited, but in my brief period of research, I'm independently reaching the same conclusion...that the future of DSD is uncertain at best.  Even as a hobbyist, I unwilling to commit to it as the root of my recording medium going forward.
 
That said, I'm more than happy to enjoy the format through playback of super excellent quality recordings I'm getting in DSD format.  I'll keep doing it and saving my DSD sources alongside 24/196 PCM masters that are immediately achievable for free with Audiogate. 

The most amazing thing to me is being able to put these highest possible quality recordings onto micro SD card and play them back natively in a pocket unit (via Fiio X3 or X5) through a pair of $400 Sennheiser IEMs that I can take with me anywhere I go!  That alone is worth the commitment to DSD for my music loving dollar, but then I've spent a large percentage of my life jonesing for a high-end audiophile system and I've resigned myself that this might be the closest I'll ever come.  Given what I'm hearing on my system and the fact that I'd need to move out before my wife would let me play audiophile gear at the volumes I'd want to play, I'm OK with that.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2015, 01:12:23 PM »
thanks tone deaf I'll check previous threads. The d100  meters display the dig signal, however the unit remains locked in rec/pause mode with "no digital".

Sounds like that might be your issue.  If you search back in the D50's history in the recorders forum, I think the technical explanation is somewhere back there.  It has something to do with that when the SPDIF standard was first developed by Sony/Phillips (the 's' and the 'p' in S/PDIF), the standard implemented throughout the industry was a little bit different than the strict compliance with the standard as defined by Sony/Phillips.  So when Sony created a device with a digital input (e.g. the D50) and then designed the device with the stricter definition, that immediately meant that the D50 wasn't going to be able to 'talk' to those older devices.  So for example, I bought a D50 thinking I'd use the digi input on the D50 from the optical output of an opti-mod mini-me, but they aren't compatible with each other.  V3's are only compatible if they've had a mod in which they install a new chip.  Apparently, some newer devices are now compatible with the Sony, but it's never a given that the Sony will be compatible with the standard installed in the newer digital device.  Sony COULD resolve this situation for customers if they'd stop designing their recorders with the more restrictive standard, but apparently they won't do that.  Thanks alot Sony!

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2015, 01:54:04 PM »
agreed .. thanks Tone!

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2015, 10:55:36 AM »
Im looking to sell my Sony PCM-D100. Is it ok to post here?
I didn't see a classified section..

thanks
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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2015, 11:21:39 AM »
There's a Yard Sale at the bottom of the page where you can sell it.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2015, 12:10:37 PM »

As for DSD, no one seems sure what to do with it

As well as making really great live recordings, it's a good archiving format for analog tapes. I've read that some users think of DSD like you would an analog master tape of a final mix: next step is analog out.

play them back natively in a pocket unit (via Fiio X3 or X5)

I think that those units, the Fiio X3 and the X5, have to convert the DSD to PCM for playback. But the new X3 2nd generation will play DSD natively (including .iso files).

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Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #106 on: September 22, 2015, 03:20:39 PM »
Has anybody used the D100 in  >:D situations?

The reason I ask is that I've just tested the PIP with a voltmeter, and was quite surprised to discover that the output is 5v.

Is this enough to power some popular mics in loud situations? If it is I could imagine I might be more comfortable using this on it's own with some mics, rather than the smaller M10 with an additional battery box. I'll give it a try shortly.

I can confirm that the internal microphones on the D100 are rubbish for loud sounds, this is my go to recorder for ambient sounds.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #107 on: September 22, 2015, 03:53:30 PM »
@adrianb: I've used the D100 with an EV RE20, Shure 7B, and other mics demanding high gain. Zero problems. I don't remember the exact setup off the top of my head, but I used nothing but the mic, cable, and D100. I was testing with things like the EV RE20 just for fun. But it gives you the idea that you can use it with a wide range of mics.

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #108 on: September 22, 2015, 08:37:51 PM »
Hmm 5 volts,thats interesting.What do you get for a reading on the M10 pip?You could be onto something as recently i was running D100 for Steve Miller and using Countryman b3 direct to PIP because my battery box wasnt working properly and there is no distortion on that recording.If thats the case i believe Dpa 4061 run on 5 volts.

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #109 on: September 23, 2015, 04:36:04 AM »
Hmm 5 volts,thats interesting.What do you get for a reading on the M10 pip?You could be onto something as recently i was running D100 for Steve Miller and using Countryman b3 direct to PIP because my battery box wasnt working properly and there is no distortion on that recording.If thats the case i believe Dpa 4061 run on 5 volts.

I measured the PIP output on the M10 at 3v. I was expecting the D100 to be the same, which is why I was quite surprised to find it was 5v.

 

Offline dabbler

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #110 on: October 10, 2015, 03:57:23 AM »
What input level do you guys use for running DPA 4061s directly off the D100 PiP?  Roughly how loud and how far from the stage do you record at?

I've been using DPA 4063s (no BB) with mic-in with levels 1.8 to 2.0 off the M10.  These input levels are on the low side and probably not optimal for the M10.  I can still overload the input in some loud situations and may risk preamp distortion if I run lower levels.  So I wonder if I'll be better off with the 4061s directly into the D100 if I'm recording post-rock / metal shows at stage lip.

My interest in the D100 over the M10 comes from two factors:

1) eliminating a battery box and extra cable as a possible point of failure for 4061s

2) increased dynamic range over the M10.  I mostly record amplified rock shows, but occasionally there'll be an acoustic set in the middle or a quiet opening act.  I don't like to fiddle around with levels during a show in the dark (my night vision is poor).  With increased DR at stage lip, I might also be able to pick up on details like the musician's foot tapping (or farting ;D)

Biggest downsides is increased price and size.

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #111 on: October 10, 2015, 03:28:07 PM »
What input level do you guys use for running DPA 4061s directly off the D100 PiP?  Roughly how loud and how far from the stage do you record at?

I'm new to this 'game' having only using my recorders for nature sounds previously, but waiting for a s*** load of stuff from Chris Church to get me really going.

Recorded my first concert proper last week with some AT853's(4.7k Mod) bought here plugged directly into Mic In (with PIP no battery box) on the D100 with the levels set at 3. Like you I'm not comfortable playing with levels, so set it conservatively having played in front of my hi-fi with the volume high.

I was in the second row, and it was a moderately loud indie band. I think it would have been okay with the levels set at 4, but really pleased with the results.

Offline dabbler

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #112 on: October 15, 2015, 03:56:59 AM »
adrianb: I assume your MIC ATT switch was at 20 and not 0?

My biggest gripe with my DPA 4063 > M10 (no BB) combo is the lack of usable input range on the M10 when using mic-in.  This is while using the low-sensitivity switch on the M10.

DPA 4061 > D100 (no BB) could be my ideal omni setup for stage lip recordings.
I can see the D100 alone being roughly the same size as an M10 + BB + extra cable.

DPA 4061s are also plentiful on the secondary market, while the DPA 4063 is hard-to-find used.

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #113 on: October 15, 2015, 04:57:19 PM »
adrianb: I assume your MIC ATT switch was at 20 and not 0?

No, it never moves from 0.

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #114 on: October 15, 2015, 06:50:40 PM »
I think you just got lucky if your recording wasnt distorted if you didnt use the -20 att switch but maybe im missing something.

Offline dabbler

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #115 on: October 18, 2015, 07:41:37 PM »
DPA 4061 > D100 (no BB) with the Mic Att switch at 20 and input level @ 3 seems to work well for stage lip recording of an experimental post-metal band.

I just did two shows (open taping!) with the D100 and head-baffled 4061s compared to the dozens, maybe hundreds with the M10 by now.

The lockable input knob is great and is easier to see/adjust than the M10.  The unit boots up quickly and USB 2.0 transfers much more quickly than the USB 1.1 on the M10.  I've found the M10 microSD card slot too frustrating to align properly so I leave the microSD in the M10.

What I don't like about the D100 compared to the M10:

1. The Hold switch does not lock the power switch, making it easy to turn off accidentally.  I'm used to the M10 which has a combined power/hold switch, and I can more easily operate it by touch without taking it out of my pocket.
This is my biggest frustration with the D100.
The M10 is not easy to turn off: a good thing!


2. Hold switch prevents the backlight from coming up at all.  The light is completely innocuous and possibly cannot damage a recording (unlike the power switch), yet Sony decided to have Hold protect the light and not the power switch!  WTF!?

With the M10, I can touch a button, wait a few seconds for the Hold warning to clear, and peek down my pocket to check levels without disturbing anyone else.  This is not something I'd be comfortable doing with the D100 given the idiotic Hold switch implementation.


3. Unlike the M10, having the Hold switch engaged does not prevent the PiP toggle dialog from popping up when I plug in my mics.  It will prompt the user and force them to disable Hold.  The M10 remembers the PiP setting when the Hold switch is engaged.  I can work around this by turning the unit off before plugging in the mics.


4. The mic-in jack is on the side, making it more susceptible to strain when placed in a pocket.  For open taping, I used the bundled carrying-case worn on my belt so it was not an issue.  This is with a right-angle 1/8" Neutrik to terminate my 4061s.


Other notes:
The 5 second pre-record buffer is awesome on both recorders compared to the R-09 I used before.  A 10 second pre-record would be even better :)

Unlike the M10, the D100 runs Linux.  I've dabbled in Linux kernel development, but Sony seems to have locked down the ability to manually install software despite distributing the sources:

   http://oss.sony.net/Products/Linux/Audio/PCM-D100.html

Offline jibanes

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #116 on: August 29, 2016, 06:41:47 PM »
From reading the manual, the PCM-D100, unlike the M10; can't do auto rec volume, what is the alternative; set the level "reasonably" and to the rest post processing?

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #117 on: August 29, 2016, 06:57:55 PM »
From reading the manual, the PCM-D100, unlike the M10; can't do auto rec volume, what is the alternative; set the level "reasonably" and to the rest post processing?

... and use the Limiter.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline jibanes

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #118 on: August 29, 2016, 08:11:00 PM »
Any advice on setting the "base" recording level? Or just watch the needles?
Finally another completely unrelated question, if using the optical cord and "line sync rec" does it stops when it encounter the end of the track? Or just start in sync with the input (digital) signal?

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #119 on: August 30, 2016, 12:19:44 AM »
Any advice on setting the "base" recording level?

I found that leaving the level at 4.0 worked in most circumstances.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline jibanes

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #120 on: August 30, 2016, 05:03:10 AM »
Is there any "golden" rule, such as, in (film) photography we have the "sunny 16" rule, which is:

if your film is x iso (i.e. x=400 iso); and you're shooting at daylight with no clouds, then your shutter speed should be 1/x seconds (here 1/400 seconds) and aperture f/16.

Is there such rule for audio (especially with the sony pcm-d100) i.e. if you're recording voice, then set the recording level to the number of meters between the recorder and the subject... or something like that?

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #121 on: August 30, 2016, 12:02:53 PM »
Is there any "golden" rule, such as, in (film) photography we have the "sunny 16" rule, which is:

if your film is x iso (i.e. x=400 iso); and you're shooting at daylight with no clouds, then your shutter speed should be 1/x seconds (here 1/400 seconds) and aperture f/16.

Is there such rule for audio (especially with the sony pcm-d100) i.e. if you're recording voice, then set the recording level to the number of meters between the recorder and the subject... or something like that?

The recording level controls vary from one recorder to another. You have to experiment with the one you use and try to do trial recordings before the session.

Further to your earlier question about auto record levels, if you have the D100 set at 4.0 and the subject is still too loud, you can also use the MIC ATT switch.

And if you record at 24 bit, a low volume recording can be raised in post with less noise resulting.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #122 on: August 30, 2016, 12:33:26 PM »
Recording level also depends on whether you are using the in-built mics vs. using an external mic. 

Overall the D100 records extremely cleanly. Especially if you are using 24 bit. This means if you raise the volume in post that you won't also be increasing self-noise.

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #123 on: August 30, 2016, 01:50:18 PM »
I have never used the Auto Level feature on any recorder I have owned. If the Sony PCM-D100 had this feature it would be redundant. I use mine for nature and ambient sounds, and it's invariably set to 4.

My experience with the internal mics are that they are excellent for what I use it for, perhaps the best on any portable recorder, but useless for loud music.

Offline jibanes

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #124 on: August 30, 2016, 06:35:10 PM »
This is very useful, thank you.

Regarding optical "synchronizing recording with playback" (aka "Digital Synchronized Recording"); I can't figure out, reading page 43 of the documentation, if the recording stops (even after a few seconds) when the signal (playback) ends.

Offline dabbler

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #125 on: August 30, 2016, 11:29:41 PM »
From what I recall, the limiter is not compatible with the 100dB+ SNR feature; so you're probably better off setting a lower level anyways and leaving the limiter off.

With the 100dB+ SNR, you can bump the levels in post with less noise, whereas the limiter may engage in a way which is noticeable with a volume jump.

In other words, it seemed to me that the limiter is implemented using the 100dB SNR feature internally; but using 12dB or so of that as a buffer zone for the limiter.

For reference, I used level 3 with Mic ATT at -20 doing PiP via mic-out
with DPA 4061s.  No battery box, attenuators, or anything in between; just stereo DPA4061s directly into the D100.  Anyways I returned the D100 since it
did not seem to be worth the bulk + weight over my M10 + BB combo (using a lightweight rechargeable 8.4V Li-ion for the BB).

Offline barihunk

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #126 on: October 03, 2016, 06:46:34 PM »
Hi all... So I have a question that I've been googling around all day with no good answer. If I want to use proper phantom powered mics with the D100, what's the best way to go about it? The XLR adapter by Sony is expensive and hard to find, and I've gotten conflicting posts about whether the Denecke PS-2 power supply will destroy the mic in of the D100. Going to the USBPre is a bit of an overkill (might as well just bring a laptop).

Have I covered all the options already?

Offline mnm207

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #127 on: October 03, 2016, 08:03:49 PM »
I use a MixPre (not the MixPre-D) in front of a D100 for my XLR mics (with and without phantom powering). I bought it initially to use in front of an M10 as it seemed a straightforward and flexible tool for this. Using it in front of a D100, one might see its lack of a digital out such as the USBPre2 or MixPre-D have as a downside, but it otherwise remains a straightforward and flexible way to use phantom powered mics (or any other mic with an XLR connection) with the D100.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #128 on: October 04, 2016, 09:13:55 AM »
Hi all... So I have a question that I've been googling around all day with no good answer. If I want to use proper phantom powered mics with the D100, what's the best way to go about it? The XLR adapter by Sony is expensive and hard to find, and I've gotten conflicting posts about whether the Denecke PS-2 power supply will destroy the mic in of the D100. Going to the USBPre is a bit of an overkill (might as well just bring a laptop).

Have I covered all the options already?

I've been using a Beachtek DXA-6 for phantom power in front of my D100, going MIC IN into the D100 with no ill effects. The Beachtek runs on a single 9V battery so you don't get a lot of mobile running time. But because I do a lot of recording of trains near my house, I have hooked up this cable to the DXA-6 so I can use an AC adapter:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B000EELID0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline jibanes

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #129 on: October 04, 2016, 12:27:35 PM »
Nice, how much battery time this gives you?

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #130 on: October 04, 2016, 04:23:19 PM »
Nice, how much battery time this gives you?

If I remember correctly, the Beachtek with phantom power on gave me about 3 1/2 to 4 hours running time on a 9V battery.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline taug

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #131 on: October 06, 2016, 02:21:01 PM »
There's been a big price drop on the PCM-D100 at our favorite online shopping giant.  :o

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #132 on: January 22, 2017, 08:01:45 PM »
Which is who?
Mk4v/41v>Nbob kcy x2>nbox platinum/Naiant PFA/Naiant IPA>Oade warm mod Marantz 661 x2/Sony pcm m10x3

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #133 on: May 04, 2017, 05:13:43 AM »
There's been a big price drop on the PCM-D100 at our favorite online shopping giant.  :o

As of this writing, May 4 2017, that online shipping giant would appear to be Amazon, which has the PCM-D100 selling for US$742.

The only problem with Amazon USA is that they won't ship outside the USA.  And while B&H will ship internationally, their price is currently $775.  I live in Japan, and while the unit is sold here for a somewhat decent price, I don't want a unit that has a Japanese UI which cannot be switched to English.  From what I've read, D100's sold in Japan are firmware locked to Japanese, disallowing English, which is totally nuts for a recorder in that price category.

It's now almost half way into 2017.  You'd think that the street price of the D100 would have dropped below $700 by now.

Anyway...

I read through every single post in this thread, but unfortunately there wasn't very much specific talk about noise floor using the internal mics.  I would really like to hear some high resolution samples that demonstrate how the 100dB setting and other settings of the D100 affect noise floor for both quiet and normal recordings.  In many of the samples I've found online, I have no idea what the settings were on the D100, so I don't know if those samples are exhibit the lowest possible noise or not.  For example, I have a TASCAM iM2 30-pin mic connected to an older gen iPod Touch, and the noise floor seems to be on par with D100 samples I am finding online -- but again, I don't know what the gain setting was on those D100 samples to make an accurate comparison.  Anyway, when comparing noise floor of my TASCAM iM2 with the D100 samples, I am finding that the noise of the D100 is more "hissy" (like cassette tape hiss) compared to my iM2 noise, which lacks high frequency hiss although lower frequency noise is present.  That could be due to the fact that the D100 internal mics pic up higher frequencies better.  Even so, I've heard some D100 voice recordings that were rather hard to listen to because the spoken S's are rather too strong, and I can also hear pops and smacks of the speaker's mouth a bit too much.

My interest in having better D100 samples boils down to my interest in knowing if the expensive D100 is going to give me better sound using its internal mics than my super-cheap-in-comparison TASCAM iM2 + iPod solution.  I know the "theoretical" answers, but I seek some better D100 samples to know for sure, complete with settings of the D100 used (including Gain) to make those sample recordings.  I usually make recordings of live performances, in rooms small and large, sometimes when an amplified audio system is used and sometimes with no audio system.  So my intent for using a D100 would be in that kind of audio environment, where you don't really know what to expect from the event you are recording, and were you cannot have the recorder close to the performers (I usually am in the audience or off to the side).

Another thing that surprisingly has not been talking about in this thread (or even in the 25 page older thread) is SUSPENSION.  If I am recording a live event, I would put my iPod with TASCAM iM2 on its own tripod, which has a shock mount.  But what shockmount solutions are you D100 using?  Certainly you must know that if you are recording nearby people in an audience that footsteps be picked up by the recorder.  I've find the following suspension products on Amazon that look like they might work when used with the D100, but I have no experience to say one way or another:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01L2ZNFYO/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CO2CP0O/

Probably both of those products stacked would prove to be the best tripod shock absorption solution overall.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.  Thanks.

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #134 on: May 04, 2017, 07:05:02 AM »


I purchased a "new" D100 from Amazon Warehouse that was in damaged packaging.  Other than the damaged packaging the recorder was in mint condition and appears to be in tip top shape!

Amazon has another "new" Amazon Warehouse D100 for $613.37.  New in damaged packaging.  With Amazon's return policy you have nothing to lose...

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00FAY1LQ8/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2017, 07:57:25 AM »
I purchased a "new" D100 from Amazon Warehouse that was in damaged packaging.  Other than the damaged packaging the recorder was in mint condition and appears to be in tip top shape! Amazon has another "new" Amazon Warehouse D100 for $613.37.  New in damaged packaging.  With Amazon's return policy you have nothing to lose...

 Thank you for the tip. I just visited that Amazon webpage. But unfortunately, it does not say the item is "new." In fact, it says it is clearly "used," and that it will also come with damage packaging.

If it was indeed a "new" item that had damaged packaging, I think it would be a good deal. But it says it is "used." 

 What are your thoughts on that?

Offline mnm207

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2017, 08:51:43 AM »
JDW, I use the Movo SMM5-R (your second link) to mount a D100 on a tripod (or light stand) and on a grip. It works well while being light, small and cheap. I can't speak to its durability, though I'm not gentle on mine. If it were to break I'd buy another without hesitation.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2017, 09:24:03 AM »
JDW, I use the Movo SMM5-R (your second link) to mount a D100 on a tripod (or light stand) and on a grip. It works well while being light, small and cheap. I can't speak to its durability, though I'm not gentle on mine. If it were to break I'd buy another without hesitation.

 Thank you for sharing your experience. So if you use the shock mount on the tripod and then if you lightly tap the legs of your tripod, can you hear it on the recording? And with that same set up, if someone walks closely by the tripod, will the footsteps be recorded?

Offline mnm207

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2017, 10:48:14 AM »
Thank you for sharing your experience. So if you use the shock mount on the tripod and then if you lightly tap the legs of your tripod, can you hear it on the recording? And with that same set up, if someone walks closely by the tripod, will the footsteps be recorded?

My experience has been that the SMM5-R reduces things like taps or footsteps transmitted physically to the recorder--I'd go so far as to say it more or less eliminates that kind of handling noise (though I'd not go so far as to say it's 100% perfect). That said, you are going to hear the actual sound of those taps, footsteps or similar nearby sounds to the extent that they're audible relative to whatever you're intending to record.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2017, 01:56:34 PM »
JDW: Your question is a bit confusing. Microphones record sounds, not music or plays or dialogues. If you are at at loud pop or rock concert then lots of normal things get drowned out by the speakers. But at quieter events (classical music, plays, and so on) very minor sounds can easily be picked up. Imagine being at a classical concert: the mic can pick up that person unwrapping a cough drop, or that couple whispering to one another, or shoes walking by, or the rustle of a dress. Shock mounts won't make a difference.

A mediocre mic placed well will do better than an excellent mic placed poorly. Mic characteristics are important here too. But if you place a mic on a floor back in an audience you'll most likely have several problems: one is the music won't be a clear/clean, but you'll also pick up a lot of other things in the process. One way I've gotten around some of these problems (but far from all) is using binaural mics that I wear in my ears. (Of course, I still pick up the couple whispering and things like that.)

Ideally, of course, the mic would be placed in front of the audience (e.g. front of stage): but a lot of times that's not possible. So you have to work with several compromises/tricks.

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2017, 01:57:30 PM »
I read through every single post in this thread, but unfortunately there wasn't very much specific talk about noise floor using the internal mics.  I would really like to hear some high resolution samples that demonstrate how the 100dB setting and other settings of the D100 affect noise floor for both quiet and normal recordings.  In many of the samples I've found online, I have no idea what the settings were on the D100, so I don't know if those samples are exhibit the lowest possible noise or not.  For example, I have a TASCAM iM2 30-pin mic connected to an older gen iPod Touch, and the noise floor seems to be on par with D100 samples I am finding online -- but again, I don't know what the gain setting was on those D100 samples to make an accurate comparison.  Anyway, when comparing noise floor of my TASCAM iM2 with the D100 samples, I am finding that the noise of the D100 is more "hissy" (like cassette tape hiss) compared to my iM2 noise, which lacks high frequency hiss although lower frequency noise is present.  That could be due to the fact that the D100 internal mics pic up higher frequencies better.  Even so, I've heard some D100 voice recordings that were rather hard to listen to because the spoken S's are rather too strong, and I can also hear pops and smacks of the speaker's mouth a bit too much.

My interest in having better D100 samples boils down to my interest in knowing if the expensive D100 is going to give me better sound using its internal mics than my super-cheap-in-comparison TASCAM iM2 + iPod solution.  I know the "theoretical" answers, but I seek some better D100 samples to know for sure, complete with settings of the D100 used (including Gain) to make those sample recordings.  I usually make recordings of live performances, in rooms small and large, sometimes when an amplified audio system is used and sometimes with no audio system.  So my intent for using a D100 would be in that kind of audio environment, where you don't really know what to expect from the event you are recording, and were you cannot have the recorder close to the performers (I usually am in the audience or off to the side).

I have used many portable recording devices, and currently own the Rode iXY and Tascam iXJ2 iPhone devices together with the Sony PCM-M10 and Sony PCM-D100. Without doubt I can say that the D100 has the best mics and lowest noise floor of any portable recorder I have used. Since I record quieter ambiences noise floor has always been important to me. I liked my Sony PCM-D50 but it had to go because of the hiss, ditto for the Roland R-05.

The Rode iXY is very hissy, but I've kept it to keep in the glovebox of my car. The Tascam iXJ2 is surprisingly good, so it might not be a coincidence that you are getting good results from your iM2.

The D100 is expensive, but in my opinion it's the best portable recorder that has ever been made, at least for quieter scenes. The mics aren't capable for louder shows, look elsewhere for that. Also, I should add that I don't think the 100dB setting makes any noticeable difference. Anyway, I love my D100 I've just bought another one!

I have some comparison recordings on my soundcloud page.

https://soundcloud.com/quisquose/




Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2017, 02:34:47 PM »
JDW: I not sure exactly why you are focused on a small recorder and internal mics ... but if I were suggesting a tool now for users wanting high quality I would probably recommend the newly announced MixPre-3. It will be out towards the end of May. Sound Devices makes this device and that are simply excellent at all they do. There are many unique features of this smallish device, but one is that you can record to the device or use it to record directly to your computer. It will accepts essentially any kind of mic (dynamic XLR, phantom XLR, mini-plug-in). It can be powered by batter, by USB-C and some other means.

... of course all of this means you'd also need to buy a mic. But it could be a great way to grow into audio. The device costs $650. Depending on the mic you get for your needs it may cost you $850 total (or less, or more).

This may not be a good fit for you as I don't know exactly what you are doing.

As @adrianb mentioned the Sony D100 sound quality is outstanding. I've used it with an EV RE20 mic (a mic that needs a lot of gain) without any hiss or background noise. Simply amazing quality. The new MixPre-3 is the only device I've heard of that could compete with the D100 sound quality at an under $1,500 price tag.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2017, 06:15:24 PM »
Gentlemen, thank you for your replies. You've given me several things to consider.

I like the flexibility that a handheld recorder like the D100 potentially gives to me because it has reasonably good onboard microphones. If I didn't care about the built-in mics then of course there are a number of field recorders in addition to the sound devices MixPre-3 to consider.

I must say that after listening to the Soundcloud samples I found that the Roland CS-10EM binaural mic headphones connected to a D100 recorded some very nice sound outdoors, with good stereo separation and surprisingly good resistance wind noise, especially considering there's no means to put a furry windscreen around them.  I've never used binaural mics before, and when I did a Google search for them today I was rather surprised to find some actually shaped like human ears selling for well over $2000!  But having the mics built into headphones would seem like an interesting way to record sound and monitor it at the same time, assuming the sound you are monitoring doesn't interfere with the sound you recording since I'm sure the vibrations from the headphone speakers would make their way to the mics, right?

The other Soundcloud files were difficult to determine which recorder was which in the comparisons because nothing was announced on the recording, and when viewing it on my iPhone I couldn't see any text description other than the title; furthermore, the text title lists comparison mics in a certain order, but I didn't seem to hear those mics in that same order in terms of the noise I was detecting.  But the one Soundcloud file that did seem to make sense, with the mics being in the same left to right order as the text description, was this:

Ticking Clock Rode iXY, D50, D100
https://m.soundcloud.com/quisquose/ticking-clock-rode-ixy-sony-d50-d100-comparison

The Rode mic has less hiss but it picks up less in the higher frequencies of the clock ticks. The D50 detects higher frequencies better but it has a noticeable hiss. And then the D100 as a wider soundstage, detects high frequencies well, and has the lowest hiss of them all.

I used my AKG K702 headphones and a Headstage Arrow headphone amp attached to a lightning to headphone jack adapter on my iPhone 7 to listen to the Soundcloud samples.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2017, 06:26:21 PM »
JDW: I have found the Soundman binaural mics quite nice. They come in different flavors. I believe they are around $150, but you'll have to email the developer yourself. I may be off a bit.

More here:
http://www.soundman.de/en/deutsch-okm-technik/

They work quite nicely via plug-in power (supplied by D100 and other recorders). I realize you may not be really interested, but there are nice binaural that cost much less than $2,000. But I have to imagine those pricey ones are awfully sweet!

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2017, 06:45:52 PM »
Is it my ad blocker at work, or is it that German website really doesn't have any PHOTOS of its products?

The $2000 binaural mic shaped exactly like human ears that I spoke of in my earlier post is this one:

https://3diosound.com/collections/microphones/products/free-space-pro-binaural-microphone

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2017, 06:50:48 PM »
Ha! There's not a lot of photos at the website but the front page has a couple:
http://dev.soundman.de

I suppose there aren't different photos as all their binaurals look the same from the outside. It just some can handle higher sound pressures (think "heavy metal") better than others. The differences don't show up on the outside.

I'll pass on the $2,000 ones for the moment. :)

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2017, 07:28:48 PM »
I purchased a "new" D100 from Amazon Warehouse that was in damaged packaging.  Other than the damaged packaging the recorder was in mint condition and appears to be in tip top shape! Amazon has another "new" Amazon Warehouse D100 for $613.37.  New in damaged packaging.  With Amazon's return policy you have nothing to lose...

 Thank you for the tip. I just visited that Amazon webpage. But unfortunately, it does not say the item is "new." In fact, it says it is clearly "used," and that it will also come with damage packaging.

If it was indeed a "new" item that had damaged packaging, I think it would be a good deal. But it says it is "used." 

 What are your thoughts on that?

The description of the D100 that I purchased said:  "Condition: Used - Good" - The box was slightly ripped.  The recorder was spotless, looked brand new and was in mint condition.  No signs of use whatsoever.  I think the "used" description was generated just because the packaging was ripped.  YMMV

I haven't recorded anything with this machine yet but I fired it up and all looks well.  With the Amazon no hassle return I would give it a shot and if you don't like what you get then send it back. 
hot licks > microphones > recorder



...ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey...

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2017, 07:33:34 PM »
Which model Soundman binaural microphone do you use?

And would the quality of the recording (noise floor, soundstage, etc.) using one of those Soundman binaural microphones be noticeably different when connected to a Sony D-100 (or even a MixPre-3) versus an iPhone (with required adapter)?

Just so that I understand what we're talking about more accurately, these binaural microphones are mics only, or do they ALSO let you monitor the recording acting as headphones too?  It seems that the Roland product discussed earlier in this thread acts as both.

- - - - - - - -

With regard to the used item on Amazon ...

I live in Japan and Amazon USA won't ship to me.  Even if they did ship to me, returning a defective item back to them would pose a problem in terms of shipping cost. So why would I even consider buying D-100 from outside Japan? Obviously, because I want the user interface in English, not in Japanese. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that if you buy it here in Japan the interface is locked Japanese only.  True or false?

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2017, 07:52:42 PM »

 I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that if you buy it here in Japan the interface is locked Japanese only.  True or false?

Why don't you check it in a store in Japan?
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2017, 08:08:29 PM »
Why don't you check it in a store in Japan?

Because I've never seen them in audio/video/electronic stores here, not even behind glass. I guess the price point is simply too high.  Or maybe they once were displayed in the past but no longer because the high price never made them a good seller, and we must admit that this isn't a new product were talking about either. However D-100's are sold at Amazon Japan and other places online.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #150 on: May 04, 2017, 09:35:06 PM »
I'm still intrigued by binaural microphones. Here's an audio sample of the Soundman brand mics:

https://youtu.be/-92_8c1KU7g

I just wish they didn't use Zoom recording devices because there is a noticeable hiss in that audio, at least when played back on my AKG K703 headphones.

They get amazing stereo separation when listening to sounds coming from the sides, and pretty good from the back. But sounds that were made in front of the head didn't sound to me like the sound was truly in front of me when I listen to it through headphones. It just sounded like it was in my head.

I didn't test through stereo speakers, but I read the wiki about binaural microphones and it says the audio recorded by then would not play back properly on stereo speakers. I would assume it would just lack the stereo separation rather than sounding bad. But again I've not tested this.

Anyway ...

I contacted Amazon via chat regarding their Warehouse Deals and after much discussion they finally told me the item was indeed a customer return but that they test the device to ensure proper operation. I told them that this is a rather expensive audio recorder with a lot of features that they could not possibly test completely, but they merely said they tested it. Hmmm...

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #151 on: May 04, 2017, 09:43:07 PM »
Why don't you check it in a store in Japan?

Because I've never seen them in audio/video/electronic stores here, not even behind glass. I guess the price point is simply too high.  Or maybe they once were displayed in the past but no longer because the high price never made them a good seller, and we must admit that this isn't a new product were talking about either. However D-100's are sold at Amazon Japan and other places online.

http://www.sony.jp/store/retail/tourist/english/

"Sony Store, Sony’s wholly-owned direct retail outlets, carry Sony Overseas Models that can be used outside Japan."
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

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Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #152 on: May 04, 2017, 10:31:29 PM »
Which model Soundman binaural microphone do you use?

And would the quality of the recording (noise floor, soundstage, etc.) using one of those Soundman binaural microphones be noticeably different when connected to a Sony D-100 (or even a MixPre-3) versus an iPhone (with required adapter)?

Just so that I understand what we're talking about more accurately, these binaural microphones are mics only, or do they ALSO let you monitor the recording acting as headphones too?  It seems that the Roland product discussed earlier in this thread acts as both.


- - - - - - - -

I am using the OKM II Classic Rock made Dec 2016. I haven't taken them out for a full spin yet. Will do so in June. They offered me a great upgrade price from the ones I had before. I believe those were the OKM II Classic. The recent one is both good for ambient and softer sounds but also now for louder sounds (i.e. rock). The original ones I had only worked well for softer sounds (softer than a brass band, but great for string quartets and louder).

I don't know what the recording to an iPhone would be like. There are 3 major elements to consider: the mic itself, the quality of the preamps, and the storage mechanism. But how these things get stored these days is pretty trivial (so an iPhone for storage should be fine). The difference between the D100 or MixPre-3 and an iPhone is going to be in the quality of the preamps. These binaural mics are already pretty sensitive so they don't need a lot of gain. That's a roundabout way of saying that a D100 would be preferable, but with these mics I think the difference would be minimal. But I could be quite wrong. I haven't tested it. With mics needing more gain, the D100 would blow an iPhone out of the water.

The make of the binaural mics is really into iPhones these days so I'd email him. He'll give you an honest answer as long as he knows what kinds of sounds you're trying to record.

The OKMs only work as mics, not as headphones.

I should stress it really depends on what conditions you'll be recording under. I love these binaural mics, and use them a lot, BUT they are very sensitive to wind (either natural wind or wind created if you are walking around). If I'm relatively still, or walking slowly, and am indoors they are a great choice. Outdoors on even a mildly windy day is a no go. In those cases I use another regular mic with a proper windscreen.



Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #153 on: May 04, 2017, 11:03:13 PM »

http://www.sony.jp/store/retail/tourist/english/

"Sony Store, Sony’s wholly-owned direct retail outlets, carry Sony Overseas Models that can be used outside Japan."

Thank you very much for trying to be helpful. But I am aware of those stores. You must realize that anything sold direct by product manufacturers here in Japan is basically like buying something from Apple. You don't get any discounts. So when I said I couldn't find the D100 at audio/video/electronic stores, I'm talking about stores like Yamada Denki that offer substantial discounts, akin to what you find on Amazon.

- - - - - - - - -

Mitchellm,

Thank you for the detailed feedback about the binaural microphones from Soundman. I'll send them an email and mention this thread. Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 11:07:44 PM by JDW »

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #154 on: May 05, 2017, 09:11:17 AM »

http://www.sony.jp/store/retail/tourist/english/

"Sony Store, Sony’s wholly-owned direct retail outlets, carry Sony Overseas Models that can be used outside Japan."

Thank you very much for trying to be helpful. But I am aware of those stores. You must realize that anything sold direct by product manufacturers here in Japan is basically like buying something from Apple. You don't get any discounts. So when I said I couldn't find the D100 at audio/video/electronic stores, I'm talking about stores like Yamada Denki that offer substantial discounts, akin to what you find on Amazon.


I'm not trying to help you buy a D100. You can bargain-hunt on your own. (And you're wrong about Apple: I've gotten terrific discounts on their refurbished items -- as good as new!)

But you asked a question of this forum and I'm trying to point out that you can more easily find the answer to it yourself, since most of us are not in Japan.

You asked: "I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that if you buy it here in Japan the interface is locked Japanese only.  True or false?" A visit to a Sony store in Japan will answer this for you.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

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Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #155 on: May 05, 2017, 09:26:42 AM »
You asked: "I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that if you buy it here in Japan the interface is locked Japanese only.  True or false?" A visit to a Sony store in Japan will answer this for you.

Indeed. Thank you for pointing that out.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #156 on: May 05, 2017, 10:57:53 AM »
You asked: "I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that if you buy it here in Japan the interface is locked Japanese only.  True or false?" A visit to a Sony store in Japan will answer this for you.

Indeed. Thank you for pointing that out.

You are very welcome. Please let us know what you find out.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #157 on: May 06, 2017, 09:50:07 AM »
Please let us know what you find out.

Well, I found out that these Sony specialty stores, geared for selling select merchandise to non-Japanese who visit Japan, do not carry the highest end pro products like the D-100.  What those retail stores carry is shown in their catalog here:

http://contents.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/pdf/OVERSEAS22_sou.pdf#page=12

However, I was able to find out that the D100 models sold in Japan ship with the Japanese UI enabled by default, but it is selectable to English. This is mentioned on page 79 of the Japanese D100 user guide:

http://www.sony.jp/ServiceArea/impdf/pdf/44754150M-JP.pdf

Of course, all printed materials that come with units sold in Japan will be printed in Japanese.

Current pricing from Amazon Japan marketplace sellers is ¥85800 (brand new), which at today's rate is about $760, and includes 8% sales tax for Japan and free shipping.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #158 on: May 06, 2017, 10:17:13 AM »
Please let us know what you find out.

Well, I found out that these Sony specialty stores, geared for selling select merchandise to non-Japanese who visit Japan, do not carry the highest end pro products like the D-100.  What those retail stores carry is shown in their catalog here:

http://contents.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/pdf/OVERSEAS22_sou.pdf#page=12

However, I was able to find out that the D100 models sold in Japan ship with the Japanese UI enabled by default, but it is selectable to English. This is mentioned on page 79 of the Japanese D100 user guide:

http://www.sony.jp/ServiceArea/impdf/pdf/44754150M-JP.pdf

Of course, all printed materials that come with units sold in Japan will be printed in Japanese.

Current pricing from Amazon Japan marketplace sellers is ¥85800 (brand new), which at today's rate is about $760, and includes 8% sales tax for Japan and free shipping.

Thanks for that info. That's a really good price from Amazon Japan. You can always download the manual in English here:

https://esupport.sony.com/CA/p/model-home.pl?mdl=PCMD100&template_id=1&region_id=3&tab=manuals#/manualsTab
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Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #159 on: May 28, 2017, 07:06:06 AM »
Well, I ended up purchasing an Amazon warehouse deals Sony PCM-D100 and got it forwarded to me here in Japan.   It's in "like new" condition, as described, but I'm finding there's no sound coming out of the green-ringed headphone output, regardless of the headphones I plug-in and regardless of the headphone volume setting. I went through the menu settings I don't see anything that would prevent audio from coming out. Plus, if I plug my headphones into the line out port, which is to the left of the headphone jack, if I set the slide switch to Mic and the Line switch to 0, I can hear audio just fine, both during a recording and as play back. So unless there some trick to get the headphones to work, it would appear that the headphone jack on this D100 is defective. Any thoughts?

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #160 on: May 28, 2017, 08:18:17 AM »
Well, I ended up purchasing an Amazon warehouse deals Sony PCM-D100 and got it forwarded to me here in Japan.   It's in "like new" condition, as described, but I'm finding there's no sound coming out of the green-ringed headphone output, regardless of the headphones I plug-in and regardless of the headphone volume setting. I went through the menu settings I don't see anything that would prevent audio from coming out. Plus, if I plug my headphones into the line out port, which is to the left of the headphone jack, if I set the slide switch to Mic and the Line switch to 0, I can hear audio just fine, both during a recording and as play back. So unless there some trick to get the headphones to work, it would appear that the headphone jack on this D100 is defective. Any thoughts?

If you unplug the headphones during playback, is there sound coming out of the speaker?
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Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #161 on: May 28, 2017, 10:22:24 AM »
If you unplug the headphones during playback, is there sound coming out of the speaker?

Yes.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #162 on: May 28, 2017, 10:53:39 AM »
If you unplug the headphones during playback, is there sound coming out of the speaker?

Yes.

And if you pull the headphone plug in and out of the headphone jack, does the speaker cut in and out?
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Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #163 on: May 28, 2017, 05:30:21 PM »
And if you pull the headphone plug in and out of the headphone jack, does the speaker cut in and out?

Yes.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #164 on: May 28, 2017, 07:56:41 PM »
And if you pull the headphone plug in and out of the headphone jack, does the speaker cut in and out?

Yes.

You could try putting contact cleaner on the headphone plug and pushing it in and out.

Check "Setting the playback sound quality" on page 48 of the manual. Turn it to "off".

Try also a factory reset of the unit. Press HOME>Settings>Common Settings>Reset All Settings

If nothing works, see if Amazon gives you a warranty, or just take it into a Sony repair centre and tell them it's brand new. Maybe they'll fix it for free.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

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Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #165 on: May 28, 2017, 08:21:06 PM »
Thank you for the advice, but the headphone jack seems dead.  I will ship this to family in California via express mail and have them return it to Amazon so I can get a refund.  Amazon gives me a month to do this, and there's still time left.

The only reason I even knew about Amazon Warehouse Deals is because a kind person in this thread suggested it.  But what I discovered is that Amazon is utterly incompetent when it comes to items sold there.  I've used Amazon USA and Amazon Japan for YEARS without a single problem.  Amazon Warehouse Deals comes with a very big caveat.  First of all, I should say that I am a very meticulous person.  I started 3 different Chats with an Amazon rep to confirm the condition and items included before I purchased.  They answered most all my questions.  When the unit arrived, it even had an "Inspected" sticker affixed to the box.  But after finding out the headphone jack was dead (at which time I began posting here again), I also discovered that the wireless receiver unit for the remote control was not inside the box!  The remote is there but not the companion IR receiver module.  Then I discovered that the unit should have also come with a protective case for the D100, but that was no where to be found.  Utter incompetence.  There's no excuse for this, especially when I invoked 3 different chat sessions with them to confirm all would be well prior to purchase.

You folks in the US probably couldn't care less, and for good reason.  When there's a problem, you just return it to Amazon for free.  But for me, living in Japan, I must pay to get it transshipped to me, and then if there's a problem, I need to ship it to either family or a cooperative freight-forwarded who will print the required labels and then ship it back to Amazon, all within their designated time frame.

I've ordered a new unit, this time from B&H (since the sale price is cheaper than Amazon, and there is no tax, and the shipping is free too -- within the USA).  I will then get it forwarded to me by family.  Hopefully that will solve these messy problems.

Amazon Warehouse Deals...  NEVER AGAIN!

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #166 on: May 28, 2017, 10:03:35 PM »
Thank you for the advice, but the headphone jack seems dead.  I will ship this to family in California via express mail and have them return it to Amazon so I can get a refund.  Amazon gives me a month to do this, and there's still time left.

The only reason I even knew about Amazon Warehouse Deals is because a kind person in this thread suggested it.  But what I discovered is that Amazon is utterly incompetent when it comes to items sold there.  I've used Amazon USA and Amazon Japan for YEARS without a single problem.  Amazon Warehouse Deals comes with a very big caveat.  First of all, I should say that I am a very meticulous person.  I started 3 different Chats with an Amazon rep to confirm the condition and items included before I purchased.  They answered most all my questions.  When the unit arrived, it even had an "Inspected" sticker affixed to the box.  But after finding out the headphone jack was dead (at which time I began posting here again), I also discovered that the wireless receiver unit for the remote control was not inside the box!  The remote is there but not the companion IR receiver module.  Then I discovered that the unit should have also come with a protective case for the D100, but that was no where to be found.  Utter incompetence.  There's no excuse for this, especially when I invoked 3 different chat sessions with them to confirm all would be well prior to purchase.

You folks in the US probably couldn't care less, and for good reason.  When there's a problem, you just return it to Amazon for free.  But for me, living in Japan, I must pay to get it transshipped to me, and then if there's a problem, I need to ship it to either family or a cooperative freight-forwarded who will print the required labels and then ship it back to Amazon, all within their designated time frame.

I've ordered a new unit, this time from B&H (since the sale price is cheaper than Amazon, and there is no tax, and the shipping is free too -- within the USA).  I will then get it forwarded to me by family.  Hopefully that will solve these messy problems.

Amazon Warehouse Deals...  NEVER AGAIN!

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience. That's really annoying. But I'm surprised you ended up buying from Amazon USA Marketplace since you were understandably skeptical, and I expected you would get the deal you found at Amazon Japan which I thought was quite good:

"Current pricing from Amazon Japan marketplace sellers is ¥85800 (brand new), which at today's rate is about $760, and includes 8% sales tax for Japan and free shipping."

In any case, I hope it all works out with B&H and you finally get to enjoy this very fine recorder.


"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #167 on: May 28, 2017, 10:19:30 PM »
...I expected you would get the deal you found at Amazon Japan which I thought was quite good:

"Current pricing from Amazon Japan marketplace sellers is ¥85800 (brand new), which at today's rate is about $760, and includes 8% sales tax for Japan and free shipping."

When you live outside the US like I do, having bank accounts in both countries, you find there are times when you have reasons to use your USA-based US Dollar account instead.  That is what decided my country of purchase this time.  Add to that, I am an old-school guy who likes manuals printed on old fashioned paper.  Had I purchased here in Japan, the manuals in English would be available to me only in digital format.  I love my iPad and even subscribe to magazines on it.  It's just there are times when I want certain things on paper.  The only way to get that with regard to the D100 is buy it in an English-speaking country.

I will report back, possibly with samples, once the "NEW" (and hopefully "perfect") D100 arrives.

Thanks.

Offline dactylus

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #168 on: May 29, 2017, 04:00:35 AM »
JDW when I mentioned the "Amazon Warehouse" deal to you that I received, I initially had no idea that you lived in Japan.  Sorry for your troubles. 

My transaction with Amazon Warehouse Deals was painless and flawless.  I am also a very, very, very picky person when it comes to audio gear!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 04:05:46 AM by dactylus »
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #169 on: May 29, 2017, 04:18:04 AM »
JDW when I mentioned the "Amazon Warehouse" deal to you that I received, I initially had no idea that you lived in Japan.  Sorry for your troubles. 

It's not your fault.  It's 100% Amazon's fault.  I actually appreciate the tip because the selling price was only $600 (if you wait and nobody buys, the price drops).  What really ticks me off is that I chatted with them 3 times prior to purchase and they still screwed it up.  They basically flat out lied to me when they told me it was a "complete" product.  Again, the IR receiver and the soft case were missing.  The dead headphone jack was on top of that, proving that they really don't test the equipment at all, despite the sticker.  And truly, their cop-out is this: "just return it within 30 days if there's a problem."  Not an issue if you're in the US, but it's an issue for me.

Oh well, it's a learning experience.  I'm please to hear you didn't have a problem with your Amazon Warehouse Deals D100 though.  That's great!

Offline dactylus

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #170 on: May 29, 2017, 09:20:44 AM »

Thanks JDW.  Good luck!!
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline adrjork

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #171 on: June 10, 2017, 08:50:25 PM »
Hi everyone.

Just a question: which is the best (for audio quality) options for "little" sounds (like man's sighs, moving clothes, man's steps, etc.) between
Sony D100 (built-in mics),
Tascam DR100mk3 (built-in mics),
Tascam DR100mk3 + AT4053B.

Thanks for your replies.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #172 on: June 11, 2017, 01:20:55 AM »
The Sony is fantastic for little sounds, soft sounds, etc. I can't compare to the Tascam but the Sony preamps are truly fantastic. I can use an EV RE20 mic with it (which requires a lot of gain) and get no background noise. So if you want pure quality then this is the one.

I have to admit I rarely use the Sony inbuilt mics. I mainly use with external mics for things like interviews, capturing music, etc. However as I remember the internals will be perfect for small sounds. The major problem is you absolutely need to use the provided windscreen as the internal mics are very sensitive to wind. The D100 should also work well with any mic you have as long as it does not need phantom power.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #173 on: June 11, 2017, 03:23:02 AM »
My reply about the Sony D100 vs. Tascam Dr100-MKIII is here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=178782.msg2230303#msg2230303

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #174 on: June 11, 2017, 04:10:45 AM »
Quote
I bought the D100 specifically so I could use it with the built in mics. If I wasn't interested in the built in mics, I would not have bought the D100 since the new Sound Devices MixPre-3 with -130dBV noise floor is superior.

JDW wrote this in his linked post. I completely agree. I bought the Sony D100 when it first came out a few years ago and have loved it. But I also now have the Sound Devices MixPre-3 and it is one fantastic device! If you are going to use external mics then I do find the MixPre-3 superior to anything on the market under about $2,000. It also has the advantage that you can record to the device itself, or directly to a computer (great if you want to podcast, do audio lectures, etc.)

So at this point in my life I'll start using the D100 only with internal mics, or some lightweight and low gain needed small mics (binaural mics, nav mic) that I need for creating a super small recording combo. Most of the time I don't need anything as compact. The D100 has the small, but sometimes important, feature that it comes with a case that attaches to a belt so you can easily wear it. Again, it's a special situation but I do need that at points.

If I were starting out anew I'd buy only the MixPre-3. But the D100 is still a great option used under the right circumstances.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #175 on: June 11, 2017, 07:35:36 AM »
If you followed what I wrote earlier in this thread you will see that I had a bad experience with Amazon warehouse deals in that the D100 had a defective headphone output. So I purchased a new unit from B&H had a family member forward it to me, and it arrived today.  I'm not sure if this is how all new D100s ship, but the one I received did not have any shrink wrap around it and the slipcover it was actually quite beat up, but the black box was in perfect condition, and the contents inside were new and clearly never had been used. The infrared receiver for use with the remote was included and it has the black protective case as well.  This D100 is truly a complete set.

I must say that the mics built into this thing are incredibly sensitive. Even at recording level 5, using 48kHz at 24-bit LPCM and the 100dB noise setting (which disables the limiter), the mics are even able to pick up the audible HF noise/whine of the fluorescent lights in my room which my ears barely discern. When I move my barefoot on a hardwood floor with the recorder on I can hear the friction scuffle of my foot against the floor on the recorder which I wouldn't normally hear with my ears. And because the mics are so sensitive you cannot walk around with it and less you have the dead cat attached. The mics are pretty amazing.

Offline adrjork

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #176 on: June 11, 2017, 12:33:55 PM »
Thank you so much for the answer! Please, let me step further: for "tiny or little" sounds, is it better Sony Built-in mics, or MixPre-3 + AT4053B, or MixPre-3 + C414xls?
Thanks

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #177 on: June 11, 2017, 05:41:44 PM »
The only way for someone to answer that specific question is if they owned all of the equipment you mentioned, which I myself do not.  One thing to keep in mind is that the MixPre-3 plus an external mic is going to cost you more than D100 and will take up more space too. 

One disadvantage to the D100 is that touching the body of the D100 will result in thumps in your recording; however, it does come with a wireless remote and you can mount it on a rubber shock mount and then put it put on a tripod. But doing all of that may defeat the purpose of having an ultra compact system with built-in microphones.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2017, 12:33:08 AM »
Thank you so much for the answer! Please, let me step further: for "tiny or little" sounds, is it better Sony Built-in mics, or MixPre-3 + AT4053B, or MixPre-3 + C414xls?
Thanks

This is hard for me to answer as I don't have all the equipment you refer to. Overall the MixPre-3 will have better preamps, but both are very very good. You'll especially notice the difference in preamps between any devices the more they need to work with mics that require a lot of gain (e.g. think of the Electro-Voice RE20 studio voice mic). I believe the two mics you reference do not need a lot of gain. They are both condenser mics (I think) and should work very nicely with either device.

... so then the question is other issues:

- do you ever need to record directly to your computer? If so, MixPre-3 is the best choice.
- do you need an ultra compact rig where you can wear the device on your belt and hold the mic? If so, Sony D100 is the best choice.
- do you need great limiters in case there are unexpected loud sounds? In that case the MixPre-3 is the best choice
- and so on and on. Specific needs will dictate your choice.

In general a really good mic is always going to be better than the built-in mics. And if you already have the mics then I'd probably suggest the MixPre-3. I'm sorry I could not give a better answer for you, but I hope this helps a bit.

Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #179 on: June 12, 2017, 09:40:57 AM »
They are both condenser mics (I think) and should work very nicely with either device.

Although you will need an additional device to provide phantom power to use either with the Sony.

In general a really good mic is always going to be better than the built-in mics.

Not to mention the flexibility you gain in placement options and the ability to choose different mics for different situations...

Offline adrjork

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2017, 11:38:29 AM »
All your answers help me a lot, so thanks.
Anyway I haven't take a decision yet.
My fight is between D100 vs MixPre3+AT4053b (please, let me know if you consider too much off-topic: is so I'll open a new thread).

I have 4 questions about this comparison:

Let's see the specs:
- Sony D100 has a noise-floor of -127dBu (even if only at rec-level 5) and a S/N ratio of 100dB (that's impressive);
- MixPre3 has a noise-floor of -130dBu (great), but AT4053b has a S/N ratio of only 78dB (and it has its own self-noise of 16dB).

So here the first 2 questions:

1. When does the difference between S/N 100dB (D100) vs 78dB (AT) become crucial? (Is it a secondary detail, or it is really important in "little" sounds recordings?)

2. Considering that I'd use the MixPre3 with an AT4053b (not with a super-silent-schoeps! but a mic with its own 16dB noise-floor), so the question: is the difference between the two noise-floor levels (D100 vs MixPre3+AT4053b) so crucial for "tiny" sounds recording?

Going further, D100 is stereo, while AT is not, obviously. I'm interested into obtaining a stereo image only outdoor for field recordings. Remaining in the price range of the AT4053b, the only "cheap" options that fit a blimp are:
- M/S option: AT4053b + AKG CK94 (a figure-8 with a self-noise of 22dB ☹ and a S/N ratio of only 72);
- X/Y single mic option: BP4025 stereo mic (self-noise 14dB, S/N ratio 80dB);
or...
- again Sony D100.
On the sheet it seems that the BP4025 option beats the AT4053b+CK94, but again BP4025 has its own noise-floor that is added to the noise-floor of the MixPre3.

So here the last 2 questions:

3. Are you sure that the sum of BP4025+MixPre3 noise-floors beats the noise floor of the Sony D100?

4. If yes, is this a "day vs night" difference for field recording?

I know that many of my questions are silly for an expert, but your answers are fundamentals for me.
So thanks a lot.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #181 on: June 12, 2017, 02:39:29 PM »
All your answers help me a lot, so thanks.
Anyway I haven't take a decision yet.
My fight is between D100 vs MixPre3+AT4053b (please, let me know if you consider too much off-topic: is so I'll open a new thread).

I have 4 questions about this comparison:

Let's see the specs:
- Sony D100 has a noise-floor of -127dBu (even if only at rec-level 5) and a S/N ratio of 100dB (that's impressive);
- MixPre3 has a noise-floor of -130dBu (great), but AT4053b has a S/N ratio of only 78dB (and it has its own self-noise of 16dB).

So here the first 2 questions:

1. When does the difference between S/N 100dB (D100) vs 78dB (AT) become crucial? (Is it a secondary detail, or it is really important in "little" sounds recordings?)

2. Considering that I'd use the MixPre3 with an AT4053b (not with a super-silent-schoeps! but a mic with its own 16dB noise-floor), so the question: is the difference between the two noise-floor levels (D100 vs MixPre3+AT4053b) so crucial for "tiny" sounds recording?

Going further, D100 is stereo, while AT is not, obviously. I'm interested into obtaining a stereo image only outdoor for field recordings. Remaining in the price range of the AT4053b, the only "cheap" options that fit a blimp are:
- M/S option: AT4053b + AKG CK94 (a figure-8 with a self-noise of 22dB ☹ and a S/N ratio of only 72);
- X/Y single mic option: BP4025 stereo mic (self-noise 14dB, S/N ratio 80dB);
or...
- again Sony D100.
On the sheet it seems that the BP4025 option beats the AT4053b+CK94, but again BP4025 has its own noise-floor that is added to the noise-floor of the MixPre3.

So here the last 2 questions:

3. Are you sure that the sum of BP4025+MixPre3 noise-floors beats the noise floor of the Sony D100?

4. If yes, is this a "day vs night" difference for field recording?

I know that many of my questions are silly for an expert, but your answers are fundamentals for me.
So thanks a lot.

The BP4025+MixPre3 will give you excellent recordings, as will the D100. I don't think the difference will be day vs night.

This all may come down to convenience. You can attach the D100 to a pistol grip and get zero handling noise in an all-in-one recorder. The BP4025 will need a holder too and you've also got the mic cable and mixpre3 to carry.

But if you ever want to use an external condenser mic with the D100, as has been noted, you need external phantom with XLR inputs.
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline adrjork

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2017, 06:36:48 PM »
The BP4025+MixPre3 will give you excellent recordings, as will the D100. I don't think the difference will be day vs night.
Guys, I'm very confused and undecided: someone says that the two systems (BP4025+MixPre3 vs D100-only) give comparable quality results; but someone else says that the quality result of a $$$$ system can't be comparable with the quality result of a $$$ system.
I honestly can only suppose that must be a difference between the two systems, but the point is: how big is this difference? It seems impssible to give an answer to this question: what is big for a guy, is little for another guy. This problem could be solved - you'd say - simply trying by myself the two systems renting them, but unfortunately where I live isn't as simple. So I have to trust someone's experience, someone that had actually used both the two systems for pro recordings.
So my question: is there here any pro field recordist that has actually used both D100-alone and also a SoundDevices recorder + a mic like the BP4025 or similar? If yes, please tell me if the difference between this two options is noticeable (like "prosumer vs pro"), or if insted the difference is barely noticeable by the most demanding audiophile maniac.
Guys, I know I'm annoying, firgive me, but I have to finally choose my audio gear, and obviously I'm trying to optimize spending - of course - but the priority is having a pro gear, not a prosumer one. So if someone has used both and says they give similar results, I'll go for the cheaper solution (god save my money). Instead if there is a noticeable difference, I'll go for the $$$$ option (god save my soul... but I could trade it for a good piece of gear >:D

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #183 on: June 13, 2017, 03:10:06 AM »
adrjork - the following link might help with your decision:

http://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/01/18/sony-pcm-d100-review-one-year-later/

I currently own two D100's, which I use predominantly for recording quieter scenes, and I am always amazed at the quality of the recordings compared with other portable recorders I have used. I have recently acquired a Sony XLR1 to provide phantom power, and am considering the BP4029 and BP4025, so might be able to provide a comparison soon. I also frequently think about a Sound Devices unit. However, we are talking about considerable money for what is basically a hobby, and when I listen to the recordings I have made using the D100 I never think to myself this could be better.

Given the price difference I would just go for the Sony D100, at least initially. I picked up my second unit secondhand for £315 ($400). You could look to 'upgrade' later, and then sell on what you don't need/want.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 03:23:25 AM by adrianb »

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #184 on: June 13, 2017, 03:14:32 AM »
adrjork - the following link might help with your decision:

http://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/01/18/sony-pcm-d100-review-one-year-later/

That's a great article. Thanks for sharing.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #185 on: June 13, 2017, 03:23:55 AM »
So my question: is there here any pro field recordist that has actually used both D100-alone and also a SoundDevices recorder + a mic like the BP4025 or similar? If yes, please tell me if the difference between this two options is noticeable (like "prosumer vs pro"), or if insted the difference is barely noticeable by the most demanding audiophile maniac.

I don't know how to answer you question, but the question itself is clear enough. Do you already have these external mics? Or would you be buying them? That changes the thinking a lot.

I am currently using the Audio Technica BP4025 X/Y Stereo Field Recording Microphone. It needs phantom power. This means from a practical perspective that I would not use it with the D100. But the combo of BP4025 with MixPre-3 is gorgeous.

Another factor is what will you be recording? Only "small sounds" or other things? The MixPre is much more flexible for my purposes: I can also use it to record screencasts and audio lectures directly to my computer. The D100 can not do that. But this is a factor that might be irrelevant to you.

How small or mobile do you need the device? The MixPre-3 with a mic will be a relatively small package that I can carry around easily enough. But the D100 on it's own is certainly smaller and less cumbersome.

Personally I'm glad I have both devices. I've gotten a few great years of usage out of the D100, and I will continue to use it when a small device is needed. However you need to weigh into the equation that if you are using the internal mics then you should plan on always using a furry windscreen (one comes with it).

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful. The bottom line: no matter which device you buy I think you'll be happy with your purchase. But the MixPre-3 works nicely with any external mic. The D100 either won't work with some mics, or becomes a more cumbersome setup. So make sure the external mic you choose (if you use one at all) works simply and well with the D100.

 

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