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Author Topic: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)  (Read 13521 times)

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Offline Karl

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #60 on: September 20, 2014, 10:03:51 AM »
Voltronic, here is a link to a couple samples:

Drum corps: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6tfbzibq6yoi3i/drum%20corps%20sample.flac?dl=0

Marching band: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sz54xomt76wjvy7/marching%20band%20sample.flac?dl=0

A little later I will post a couple pictures of my backpack rig!
My portable rig:

AT853>Tascam DR100 mkii

Offline voltronic

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #61 on: September 20, 2014, 01:27:31 PM »
Voltronic, here is a link to a couple samples:

Drum corps: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6tfbzibq6yoi3i/drum%20corps%20sample.flac?dl=0

Marching band: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sz54xomt76wjvy7/marching%20band%20sample.flac?dl=0

A little later I will post a couple pictures of my backpack rig!

Wow, really great recordings, and yes the percussion does sound much more realistic than what I've heard on the official DCI recordings.  Am I correct that different mics were used for these two recordings?  The marching band one sounds like cards, but the drum corps sample sounds like omnis to me.  In any case, the balance of the drum corps one is fantastic - most of the ones I hear are much too brass-heavy.  Can't wait to see what you're using.
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Offline Karl

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #62 on: September 20, 2014, 07:55:42 PM »
These are the same Audio Technica AT853 mics for both recording, both using the cardioid element. Though, the drum corps sample was using phantom power, and the marching band sample was using battery box power into a minidisc. I personally have noticed more difference with the powering than whether I was recording to minidisc or a wav recorder.
My portable rig:

AT853>Tascam DR100 mkii

Offline Karl

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2014, 08:01:13 PM »
Here are some pictures of my "back pack" rig.

Like I said earlier, I hit record way earlier at a convenient time, and when it's "go" time I can pull these out and I'm already going.

If I was to start all over, I would still use these mics, but I would give myself more options. I would still retain the ability to easily pull these out and hold them with one hand. I would also like to be able to mount them to a mic stand. My current "mic stand" is a music stand when I need it, but that doesn't allow me to mount them high if I need to. I would also like to have a way to use these for stealth situations, but I would sacrifice that piece if need be.
My portable rig:

AT853>Tascam DR100 mkii

Offline Karl

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2014, 08:16:31 PM »
BTW the mics are on a gooseneck, so I can spread them wider than what you see in the picture.
My portable rig:

AT853>Tascam DR100 mkii

Offline voltronic

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2014, 09:12:49 PM »
I was expecting something much more expensive than AT853s!  Were both of those recordings at field level, or was either up on a stand?
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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline Karl

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2014, 09:52:56 PM »
I was holding them in my hand! I was sitting in the stands, close to the front both times. I was sitting in places where there weren't people blocking the sound.
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2014, 04:42:37 PM »
My 853s stay in one of these cpvc gizmos in the middle of a mic shock mount.  No fiddling with angles necessary to set up.  Real time saver.  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155537.msg1965899#msg1965899

Instead of holding the 853's in my hand, I'd at least use a camera monopod. 

I'm guessing CM3s could be mounted similarly?  Just larger diameter cpvc pipe. 

Offline voltronic

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2014, 05:34:06 PM »
My 853s stay in one of these cpvc gizmos in the middle of a mic shock mount.  No fiddling with angles necessary to set up.  Real time saver.  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155537.msg1965899#msg1965899

Instead of holding the 853's in my hand, I'd at least use a camera monopod. 

I'm guessing CM3s could be mounted similarly?  Just larger diameter cpvc pipe.

I tried the PVC-only route but it wasn't working for these mics.  I came up with another solution for a fixed-distance bar:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=169881.0
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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2014, 09:06:36 PM »
You mentioned the PVC only route wasn't working--I take it you mean you didn't have confidence in its weight carrying ability without the 3/8 rod inside it?

Now if someone has an idea for a quick connect between the mic mount and the mic stand? 


Offline voltronic

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2014, 09:33:40 PM »
You mentioned the PVC only route wasn't working--I take it you mean you didn't have confidence in its weight carrying ability without the 3/8 rod inside it?

Now if someone has an idea for a quick connect between the mic mount and the mic stand?

No, I just didn't have the necessary dremel or saw to modify the angled pieces.

As for a quick release for a stand, I suppose one could use a camera plate but I can't imagine it being much quicker than unscrewing right from the monopod.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #71 on: September 23, 2014, 10:31:09 AM »
For me, this is one of the most well thought out quick deploy rigs I've ever seen:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96009.msg1713305#msg1713305

I'd like to figure out a quick deploy rig for cm3s.

Wow, he really put a lot of effort into that.  Very, very slick!  On the next page is a later revision of it also.  I really like that little stand, too.

Thanks guys.  That's using a Manfrotto 001B lightstand, commonly used around TS as a small compact stand.  The current replacement for it is the 5001B, which appears identical from what I can tell.  Collapses to about 20" long or so.  The specs say it goes up to about 6', but that's with the legs flat out on the ground.  With them deployed in the typical pyramid configuration it maxes out at more like 7' tall.  It will go up to 7-1/2' tall but becomes unstable unless clamped , bungee'd or otherwise secured to something.

The Manfrotto MS0490A Nanopole looks interesting.  Same size and height, but with an adjustable "lazy leg" for setting it plumb on sloped ground and the entire leg assembly may be detatched for use as a telescoping mono-pod.

On the current version of that rig I've eliminated the sphere attachments on the four omnis, extended the Left/Right omni spread to 6' instead of 3' and replaced the center forward and rear facing omnis with DPA miniature hypercards (4098H).  Changing to the new configuration I used some borrowed AT cardioids (853, 933) a few times in the center forward/rear facing positions before going with the DPA4098H, which also worked nicely.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

"Narrow or widely spaced microphone configurations are preferred. It is well-known experience that pure coincidence microphone concepts are not able to produce a satisfying natural spatial impression, due to the lack of adequate interchannel temporal relations (time-of-arrival, phase, correlation)" -Günther Theile
"The mix of the Double M/S signals with a large A/B configuration of omnis results in the spacious sound that is often desired. This option also provides decorrelated low-frequency signals." -Helmut Wittek

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #72 on: September 23, 2014, 11:11:53 AM »

That's a great idea.  I have a cheap but very good monopod that goes about 65" that I'm thinking of using.  If I can attach some type of small case or bag to the top of the monopod / tripod / etc. to hold the tinybox and my M10, the entire recording setup will be contained in a very small space.  I have a couple small camera cases and a little neoprene one with a belt loop that can be attached to the monopod handle.  Then it's just a matter of cable management.


My concern with monopod (as I interpret that concept) is that you'd have to hold it up? 

With a tripod you can set it quickly whenever the opportunity is there and leave it while you do whatever other obligations you have.  You can also place it in more favorable positions than ones where you'd have to stand next to or behind it.  A small pouch draped underneath on a strap (within the legs) keeps the gear protected.  The cables run down into that (I'm assuming thin gauge wires, though even a full mic cable can work if it is short and/or coiled within the diameter at the base). 

I've found that as long as you're not in a drunken crowd of wookies (in the dark) people respect and are attentive to a stand.  Standing room/pushing room in a crowd is not what you're trying to do of course.  The camera tripod format is also better because it is more obvious about the space it is staking out.  A traditional mic stand has legs that spread wider and very low to the grand so the outer dimensions of the real estate it occupies are not very obvious and those are easier to get accidentally entangled in. 

Not that I'd leave this unattended in many situations but it can readily be left alone stage lip in a normal sort of seated crowd.  And I'm not standing in front of everyone at the stage or trying to occupy a chair in the aisle/pit/camera well in front of the stage. 

I probably have a picture somewhere of how this normally runs.  I don't have to be too worried about cables and other pieces at most things I record so those are often on the stage lip behind the monitors.  I'll take some at the next show. 


As to the camera release plate vs. regular screw on bar I think there's not a huge amount of difference in assembly time if you're not prewired/connected.  If you are prewired and connected then turning all that stuff around and around trying to screw the bar onto the stand really doesn't work. 


BTW Gut's setup pictured there is awesome.  Given the complexity I'd think you'd have to have something like that pre-rigged so that's a really nice deal.  I'm not McGyver so work with off the shelf stuff  ;) 
Gear:
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Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
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Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2014, 12:32:32 PM »
The camera tripod format is also better because it is more obvious about the space it is staking out.  A traditional mic stand has legs that spread wider and very low to the grand so the outer dimensions of the real estate it occupies are not very obvious and those are easier to get accidentally entangled in.

A light stand (designed for holding lights for photography) is the most common type of stand used for recording around here.  It is basically much more like a camera tripod than a traditional microphone stand, but has fixed instead of telescoping legs, making it much simpler and faster to setup, though it provides less leveling adjustments.  Instead of a hand-cranked top tube for fine adjustment of height, they have simple multi-sectioned telescopic vertical tube section which clamp in place. They are available from about 12" to up to to 25'+ tall. Similarly to a camera tripod, the diameter of the footprint can be adjusted as to be wider for for more stability or narrower for a smaller and more compact footprint, at the risk of being less stable. 

Quote
If you are prewired and connected then turning all that stuff around and around trying to screw the bar onto the stand really doesn't work.

When you find yourself in this situation, try holding the unweildy microphone assembly in-place and spinning the camera tripod or light-stand instead.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

"Narrow or widely spaced microphone configurations are preferred. It is well-known experience that pure coincidence microphone concepts are not able to produce a satisfying natural spatial impression, due to the lack of adequate interchannel temporal relations (time-of-arrival, phase, correlation)" -Günther Theile
"The mix of the Double M/S signals with a large A/B configuration of omnis results in the spacious sound that is often desired. This option also provides decorrelated low-frequency signals." -Helmut Wittek

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Recording Marching Band (formerly: Furry windscreens - moisture resistance?)
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2014, 01:00:24 PM »
The camera tripod format is also better because it is more obvious about the space it is staking out.  A traditional mic stand has legs that spread wider and very low to the grand so the outer dimensions of the real estate it occupies are not very obvious and those are easier to get accidentally entangled in.

A light stand (designed for holding lights for photography) is the most common type of stand used for recording around here.  It is basically much more like a camera tripod than a traditional microphone stand, but has fixed instead of telescoping legs, making it much simpler and faster to setup, though it provides less leveling adjustments.  Instead of a hand-cranked top tube for fine adjustment of height, they have simple multi-sectioned telescopic vertical tube section which clamp in place. They are available from about 12" to up to to 25'+ tall. Similarly to a camera tripod, the diameter of the footprint can be adjusted as to be wider for for more stability or narrower for a smaller and more compact footprint, at the risk of being less stable. 

Quote
If you are prewired and connected then turning all that stuff around and around trying to screw the bar onto the stand really doesn't work.

When you find yourself in this situation, try holding the unweildy microphone assembly in-place and spinning the camera tripod or light-stand instead.

Yeah.  If you're going tall a trad mic stand isn't cutting it (and I'm showing how foreign my experience is to the OTS experience that many around here came up in). 

I like the telescoping legs on the one I mention since that is what enables it to fold down into something small enough to toss in the backpack (I've even done old school smuggling to carry it through strict pat-down area security to use more for it's intended purpose that time - video).  They also put all the tighteners together (and small) so you can with one hand loosen all of them at once to drop the legs to full extension then tighten them up individually.  Tightening all the leg sections is the slowest part, though not particularly so, but that is precisely the trade off for the compact carry size of that particular piece. 

Your quad-eye rig doesn't look a whole lot taller when collapsed (fatter but maybe not longer) and has a lot more in place outta the bag.  The feet are still low to the ground but those bright green balls on the feet are a nice beacon.  I may have to add that for open use spaces.  What did you use for those?  Was it tennis balls? 

On the potato-potatoe of attachment indeed yours is the right approach :facepalm: but it still would make me nervous to be in a rush spinning metal parts around my cables...   Obviously it can be done but it seems better in a perfect(ly designed) world to arrive fully armed like the quad eye or have a simpler attachment (clamp/plate). 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2014, 01:03:30 PM by bombdiggity »
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

 

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