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Offline jb63

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some attenuator cable questions
« on: November 11, 2014, 01:18:08 PM »
(well, it IS the cables page after all)

Question 1:

I have a V3 that I want to run and extra out from the analog XLR outs to my 1/8" in jack and a backup.
I currently run it mostly COAC out, but I like to run a backup just in case, and the analog XLR outs are HOT! I tried a -24 db attenuator in a little wire from adorama that I used when sending a signal to my camera, but it was too much of a pad. Picked up these in the Yard Sale:

Naiant Inline XLR -12 db attenuator pair, 9" cable length

And they are the correct pad to feed any of the recorders I have without clipping, but they have a HUGE footprint. A big connect on either side and I still have to connect an XLR>1/8 to the end of that. I might as well have 2 more recorders in the bag.

Is it possible to made a reliable attenuator cable that is just as small as Robb or Ted's right angle connects that terminates into a 1/8" jack? (see picture below?)

Question 2:

My favorite mics, that I currently only seem to use for backup are made by Leonard Lombardo. I love them.
They take a lower power supply than the standard 48v that my shiny OCM r44 supplies, and I was wondering the same question:
Can a reliable attenuator be made with small, glue-filled right angle plug>1/8" in that would allow me to safely power the mics with a phantom 48v supply?
Right now I have a Naiant pfa, pictured below, but it takes a lot of space in the bag as well.

Come to think of it, what are the power requirements for Sonic Studios mics? I can't seem to find that anywhere?

Thanks for any help on this, If anyone wants to chime in on building said cables, I'd be happy to oblige them.

I'm just about done with my Korg MR1 project, just in time for NO ONE to EVER use that recorder again, so maybe I should just go buy a D1 or something stupid.

;-)
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Offline ~Jon Stoppable

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 01:26:49 PM »
I don't build anything in stubbies.  You might find somebody to fit a pad resistor network in a stubby, but it would be a delicate job.  Fitting a power conversion circuit like the PFA in a stubby would be much, much more difficult.  It probably would have some performance compromise vs. the PFA circuit.  Something similar to the DPA DAD6001 circuit but modified to the specific requirement of your microphones might fit if you had a talented fellow doing the assembly.

Offline jb63

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 01:59:08 PM »
That's what I thought.
So the actual power connversion or attenuator is in the capsule portion of the piece.

Would it be possibly to have that piece on the middle of the cable, so that it could still be a stubby where it plugs in, it would just have a big attenuator in the cable?

I'm just trying to get my gear under control and I'm down to these little nit-picky problems!

Too many connections! But I certainly don't want to compromise on performance. The  PFA & Inline cables of your I have a big part of my bag and exactly what I need, they just have big, giant XLR plugs that take up space where I don't want the space taken up.

Thanks again!
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Offline ~Jon Stoppable

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 02:53:52 PM »
That's what I thought.
So the actual power connversion or attenuator is in the capsule portion of the piece.

It's in the XLR connector, open it and see.

Quote
Would it be possibly to have that piece on the middle of the cable, so that it could still be a stubby where it plugs in, it would just have a big attenuator in the cable?

Sure, but that would be three times the number of connectors.

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 04:16:20 PM »
Come to think of it, what are the power requirements for Sonic Studios mics? I can't seem to find that anywhere?

He doesn't publicize that info. His mics will run safely on any recorder's PIP, but with most recorders the mics will not be powered optimally and could distort at inopportune times.

He does say that they are optimally powered by the PIP provided by an M10, D50, or most Sharp MD recorders.

An M10 + a Sonic Studios mic would be an ideal stealth combo. I've made some great recordings that way. If you want to be sure your mic is being optimally powered and need to run into your R44, you probably need to get a Sonic Studios battery box.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline beatkilla

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 06:03:15 PM »
Dont fry your sonic mics,those things pull some killer sound.I think they only run on 1.5volts but dont quote me.

Offline jb63

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2014, 12:54:18 AM »
I've only run them into the r44 line in, using their own power supplies.
I love them too much!

Ok. So more questions.
I have one of these little attenuators from adorama and it doesn't work well. Channel dropouts.

But it's small and seems like it could fit into a cable with right angle stubbies on one end and 1/4" on the other, even if it was in a 2 foot cable it would only be a bump in the middle.

What's the problem with this cable and is it unreliable?
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 05:14:58 AM »
Dont fry your sonic mics,those things pull some killer sound.I think they only run on 1.5volts but dont quote me.

Any recorder's PIP won't fry them.

Per Leonard Lombardo on his site:
 DSM mic powering is unlike other electret type microphones commonly available as mono, single point stereo, binaural sets, and phantom powered condenser mics. These commonly require HIGH voltage, LOW current powering for best performance. DSM -1S/6S series microphones require UNIQUE LOW voltage, HIGH current condenser capsule powering.
  Please be aware that DSM mics special powering requirement is NOT met using other mic manufacturer's powering solutions. These are ONLY designed for typical electret microphones, and NOT compatible for use with DSM microphones.
  However, just applying typical (9 volt battery) power of 5-to-10 volts, LOW current common for electret powering of conventional mics WILL DO NO HARM to DSM mic sets; it just doesn't work so well.

Also he says on his site that his mics are perfectly powered by the PIP provided by  a Sony M10, D50 or Sharp MD.
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline jb63

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 05:23:16 AM »
I taped for 3 years using ssddm6-l > korg mr-1 using the korg to power the Mics. Never a problem.
But the korg isn't p48. I've been doing some searching and it's going to be tough to find an attenuator for the SS mics power problem, but that's not really what those mics are for, I guess.

Anyway, I still want to attenuate that v3 properly....

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.html

This is the kind of thing that would work, but as Jon said, then I get 3 connections instead of 2. But at least I can use a set of breakout stubbies that loop around and the bulky attenuator can be in a side pocket of the bag, then another set of xlr>1/8" and its done. But what a giant pain just for a back up.

Surey it would be possible to get a cabler to modify this attenuator to my uses so it had a foot or so of cable permanently grafted onto it, thus putting the bulky part in the middle of the cable and having a stubby on one end and a 1/8" male on the other?


You guys are great. I don't know where else I'd talk about this, so I'm going to go watch "the Conversation" again.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 07:22:24 AM by jb63 »
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Offline Gene Poole

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 08:43:34 AM »
I taped for 3 years using ssddm6-l > korg mr-1 using the korg to power the Mics. Never a problem.
But the korg isn't p48. I've been doing some searching and it's going to be tough to find an attenuator for the SS mics power problem, but that's not really what those mics are for, I guess.

Anyway, I still want to attenuate that v3 properly....

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68085-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8202_AT8202_In_Line_Attenuator.html

This is the kind of thing that would work, but as Jon said, then I get 3 connections instead of 2. But at least I can use a set of breakout stubbies that loop around and the bulky attenuator can be in a side pocket of the bag, then another set of xlr>1/8" and its done. But what a giant pain just for a back up.

Surey it would be possible to get a cabler to modify this attenuator to my uses so it had a foot or so of cable permanently grafted onto it, thus putting the bulky part in the middle of the cable and having a stubby on one end and a 1/8" male on the other?


You guys are great. I don't know where else I'd talk about this, so I'm going to go watch "the Conversation" again.

I've got a set of these and they are just a bridge of resistors and a switch.  You can easily make an in-line attenuator by just chopping a cable and soldering resistors into the chopped section and enclosing the splice with heat-shrink tubing.  See this page for info on the different configurations and how to calculate the values:

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pads/

Offline yates7592

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Re: some attenuator cable questions
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 12:32:44 PM »
Can't comment on stubbies, but I know it's possible to incorporate pads inside regular XLR connectors (I have some made by Sonosax and they work flawlessly).

 

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