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Author Topic: SECRET soundboard patch...  (Read 7112 times)

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Offline Life In Rewind

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SECRET soundboard patch...
« on: March 07, 2015, 09:30:49 AM »
I was recording a local bluegrass group last night - there was another taper - a newbie...being the senior taper - I let him have the RCA outs. (plus the mixer was on the opposite side of the stage)

Then it dawned on me - they were using powered speakers - that have an output (for chaining pairs together)...grabbed an XLR cable...POW! - soundboard feed right at my table.

Something to keep in mind...only good for mono mixes - but there are a lot of those!

Not really a secret - but something I hadn't thought of...

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Online tgakidis

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 09:38:15 AM »
I have done this often when running my mics and gear stage lip.
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Offline microburst

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 11:28:08 AM »
I've had SBD feed for opening acts where I wasn't allowed to take the SBD for the main act.  Left the deck plugged in and turned the 744T on stealth mode, taking the SBD while it looked like the deck was off. 

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 12:57:07 PM »
I've had SBD feed for opening acts where I wasn't allowed to take the SBD for the main act.  Left the deck plugged in and turned the 744T on stealth mode, taking the SBD while it looked like the deck was off.

Hopefully you keep the resulting recording to yourself.

So...having a little trouble understanding this. So the venue has speakers with amps in them (sort of like computer speakers) with a line out on them?

I'll have to investigate this at one of my very small local clubs. I'd like to run on stage and get a board feed as it gets a little chatty out where I can run a stand. I've thought about REALLY long cables to either run the board feed to the recorder with mics on stage or vice versa.

Thanks for the tip OP!
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 01:16:01 PM »
Example:

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Offline microburst

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 02:21:35 PM »
I've had SBD feed for opening acts where I wasn't allowed to take the SBD for the main act.  Left the deck plugged in and turned the 744T on stealth mode, taking the SBD while it looked like the deck was off.

Hopefully you keep the resulting recording to yourself.


Yeah definitely never let the recording out

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015, 09:26:59 PM »
I've had SBD feed for opening acts where I wasn't allowed to take the SBD for the main act.  Left the deck plugged in and turned the 744T on stealth mode, taking the SBD while it looked like the deck was off.

Hopefully you keep the resulting recording to yourself.

So...having a little trouble understanding this. So the venue has speakers with amps in them (sort of like computer speakers) with a line out on them?

I'll have to investigate this at one of my very small local clubs. I'd like to run on stage and get a board feed as it gets a little chatty out where I can run a stand. I've thought about REALLY long cables to either run the board feed to the recorder with mics on stage or vice versa.

Thanks for the tip OP!
it will only work with powered speakers such as jbl eon
Passive speakers, powered via external amp will not have the daisy chain out option.
I find smaller acts/venues have powered speakers while larger ones have passive but that could just be me
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 10:19:59 PM »
This is interesting news.  I record a friends band occasionally and the have the JBL Eon speakers.  I will try this next time just to see how I can mix it in with my mics.  Thanks for the tip!
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Offline jbosco

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015, 12:51:52 PM »
Just remember that the signal you get probably won't be the same as a soundboard out, generally speaking the signal will have passed through lots of processing for the house sound, most notably the audio will have gone through a house eq which will probably alter the sound in a way you won't want, it will probably also be compressed in some fashion and will most likely have gone through a crossover stage as well, so the mix could be missing the low end.




« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 10:30:19 PM by jbosco »
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 01:18:40 PM »
Just remember that the signal you get probably won't be the same as a soundboard out, generally speaking the signal will have passed through lots of processing for the house sound, most notably the audio will have one through a house eq which will probably alter the sound in a way you won't want, it will probably also be compressed in some fashion and will most likely have gone through a crossover stage as well, so the mix could be missing the low end.

It's the exact same signal that the soundboard sends to the speakers...i.e. "the house sound"

And - we're talking about bar/club band type setups with PA speaker on stick type rigs (and mixers with built in effects)...generally they're going board > speakers(mono)...nothing elaborate in between.

Even if a band is running stereo - the signals are balanced so...2 XLRs...
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 08:33:01 PM »
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015, 10:06:08 PM »
Jbosco is right here. While it may work well and still sound terrific, this is a less than ideal solution. Unless there are only two speakers on sticks, there will be a crossover/processor handling the signal to the stacks and subs. Plus the signal will certainly pass through some sort of house eq, and/or compressor. Patching directly out of the board or using turn-arounds on a house snake line would bypass all of that. Someone else incorrectly mentioned that only "powered" systems will pass a signal. Any sort of monitor with a thru pass feature will work, it will just pass what it was sent down the line.

Any good taper wanting to make stage tapes, should carry a pair of cable turn-arounds in their bag. But, even better is to be friendly with your resident sound engineer and have them run your stage mics through the house snake and back to the board, where you bypass the board completely and power them down the snake with your favorite preamps, while also taking his 2-mix (pre-crossover/room processing)
Cheers, Phil


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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2015, 10:50:21 PM »
Just remember that the signal you get probably won't be the same as a soundboard out, generally speaking the signal will have passed through lots of processing for the house sound, most notably the audio will have gone through a house eq which will probably alter the sound in a way you won't want, it will probably also be compressed in some fashion and will most likely have gone through a crossover stage as well, so the mix could be missing the low end.

It's the exact same signal that the soundboard sends to the speakers...i.e. "the house sound"


And that's the problem, even if there is no compressor or crossover in the signal chain, I'm sure it's been equalized to make it sound good in the room, have you ever heard what a PA sounds like in a room when the system eq is "flat", generally speaking it won't sound very good, this will alter the sound in a way that probably won't sound good as opposed to taking the line out from the board which bypasses all the system processing.  Trust me it's what I did for a living for over 20 years.

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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 11:11:59 PM »
Just remember that the signal you get probably won't be the same as a soundboard out, generally speaking the signal will have passed through lots of processing for the house sound, most notably the audio will have gone through a house eq which will probably alter the sound in a way you won't want, it will probably also be compressed in some fashion and will most likely have gone through a crossover stage as well, so the mix could be missing the low end.

It's the exact same signal that the soundboard sends to the speakers...i.e. "the house sound"


And that's the problem, even if there is no compressor or crossover in the signal chain, I'm sure it's been equalized to make it sound good in the room, have you ever heard what a PA sounds like in a room when the system eq is "flat", generally speaking it won't sound very good, this will alter the sound in a way that probably won't sound good as opposed to taking the line out from the board which bypasses all the system processing.  Trust me it's what I did for a living for over 20 years.

This was in restaurant - I was sitting right in front of the band...there was no "lots of processing" - nor was there a "house eq" - and further more - there is no "crossover" in play...
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 11:16:07 PM »
Jbosco is right here. While it may work well and still sound terrific, this is a less than ideal solution.

Isn't that the whole point of my post...?

I let the other guy have the RCAs...I was making the best of it...
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 11:17:48 PM »
Unless there are only two speakers on sticks,

Yes - exactly 2 - mono mix
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2015, 11:20:34 PM »
But, even better is to be friendly with your resident sound engineer

I am the resident sound engineer.

This was a restaurant/tavern...the band did their own sound.
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Offline PH

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2015, 12:45:53 AM »
Life in Rewind,
I think it's great you found a way to grab a feed that sounded great, that's why we all tape.

Until your last replies, you didn't mention any of the specifics of the room, the band, the engineer, the PA, or any details about the situation... so it's only natural for others to point out that even though all of the above conditions were exactly as you explained them in your situation, that it would not be advised for other tapers to try this. Not to mention, unless a taper understands exactly what they are doing/patching....it could be problematic for the sound/band. Also, being the "senior taper" as you described yourself, you should have a set of splitters for your bag so that both you and the "newbie taper" could get a patch. Sounds like the newbie beat you to the board. jk.

Again, glad you made a great tape but I think it's important to point out for others wanting to try this, that it is in fact, a less than ideal solution and there are at least 3 other methods (mentioned here already) that would work a lot better. YMMV
Cheers, Phil
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 01:20:31 AM by PH »

Offline jbosco

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2015, 07:56:33 AM »
Just remember that the signal you get probably won't be the same as a soundboard out, generally speaking the signal will have passed through lots of processing for the house sound, most notably the audio will have gone through a house eq which will probably alter the sound in a way you won't want, it will probably also be compressed in some fashion and will most likely have gone through a crossover stage as well, so the mix could be missing the low end.

It's the exact same signal that the soundboard sends to the speakers...i.e. "the house sound"


And that's the problem, even if there is no compressor or crossover in the signal chain, I'm sure it's been equalized to make it sound good in the room, have you ever heard what a PA sounds like in a room when the system eq is "flat", generally speaking it won't sound very good, this will alter the sound in a way that probably won't sound good as opposed to taking the line out from the board which bypasses all the system processing.  Trust me it's what I did for a living for over 20 years.

This was in restaurant - I was sitting right in front of the band...there was no "lots of processing" - nor was there a "house eq" - and further more - there is no "crossover" in play...

Excuse me for trying to explain signal chains and why this might not be the ideal taping method, my bad, please except my apologies.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 07:58:26 AM by jbosco »
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2015, 08:33:46 AM »
Just remember that the signal you get probably won't be the same as a soundboard out, generally speaking the signal will have passed through lots of processing for the house sound, most notably the audio will have gone through a house eq which will probably alter the sound in a way you won't want, it will probably also be compressed in some fashion and will most likely have gone through a crossover stage as well, so the mix could be missing the low end.

It's the exact same signal that the soundboard sends to the speakers...i.e. "the house sound"


And that's the problem, even if there is no compressor or crossover in the signal chain, I'm sure it's been equalized to make it sound good in the room, have you ever heard what a PA sounds like in a room when the system eq is "flat", generally speaking it won't sound very good, this will alter the sound in a way that probably won't sound good as opposed to taking the line out from the board which bypasses all the system processing.  Trust me it's what I did for a living for over 20 years.

This was in restaurant - I was sitting right in front of the band...there was no "lots of processing" - nor was there a "house eq" - and further more - there is no "crossover" in play...

Excuse me for trying to explain signal chains and why this might not be the ideal taping method, my bad, please except my apologies.

It was never presented as an "ideal taping method" - it was presented as a backup plan for less than optimal conditions. (i.e. - other guy using board patch)

I assumed everybody knew what a powered speaker was...its a full range speaker with an amplifier built into it...like the previously mentioned EONs or very common Mackie 450.

If you're using it for the house mix - you send it the house mix. (just an XLR between the mixer and speaker)
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Offline jbosco

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2015, 09:08:32 AM »
Just remember that the signal you get probably won't be the same as a soundboard out, generally speaking the signal will have passed through lots of processing for the house sound, most notably the audio will have gone through a house eq which will probably alter the sound in a way you won't want, it will probably also be compressed in some fashion and will most likely have gone through a crossover stage as well, so the mix could be missing the low end.

It's the exact same signal that the soundboard sends to the speakers...i.e. "the house sound"


And that's the problem, even if there is no compressor or crossover in the signal chain, I'm sure it's been equalized to make it sound good in the room, have you ever heard what a PA sounds like in a room when the system eq is "flat", generally speaking it won't sound very good, this will alter the sound in a way that probably won't sound good as opposed to taking the line out from the board which bypasses all the system processing.  Trust me it's what I did for a living for over 20 years.

This was in restaurant - I was sitting right in front of the band...there was no "lots of processing" - nor was there a "house eq" - and further more - there is no "crossover" in play...

Excuse me for trying to explain signal chains and why this might not be the ideal taping method, my bad, please except my apologies.

It was never presented as an "ideal taping method" - it was presented as a backup plan for less than optimal conditions. (i.e. - other guy using board patch)

I assumed everybody knew what a powered speaker was...its a full range speaker with an amplifier built into it...like the previously mentioned EONs or very common Mackie 450.

If you're using it for the house mix - you send it the house mix. (just an XLR between the mixer and speaker)

Most of the other engineers I work with would not do it that way, we would send it to an EQ at a bare minimum first, probably a compressor if for nothing else speaker protection at least, and in the case where there are subs, a crossover to split the signal to feed the bass bins.  All this could just be done with a simple and cheap DBX DriveRack, or separate pieces, but hey, we could be doing it wrong.

I'm glad this worked out for you, happy taping!
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2015, 11:07:57 AM »
At vibes last year in the VIP tent they have the daisy chain setup. I looked at it for a while thinking it might be possible. Not really necessary there as they generally supply a board feed.
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2015, 11:17:55 AM »
Sorry for the above snarks guys - I should have spelled it out a little better in my first post. :-X
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Offline jefflester

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2015, 04:26:25 PM »
Someone else incorrectly mentioned that only "powered" systems will pass a signal. Any sort of monitor with a thru pass feature will work, it will just pass what it was sent down the line.
I've done it off a non-powered floor wedge. Of course in this case the signal is very hot, since it's amplified speaker level. I did it at a low-key (pizza parlor) Steve Wynn show where I was already running mics, but I had my DAT deck (TCD-D100) as a spare so I decided what the hell I'd run the 1/4" speaker out from the wedge into my deck. I can't remember if I had an attenuator or not and in hindsight if I didn't I could have blown the input stage of the deck. As it turned out, it was definitely distorted, but it was vocals only and not so bad that I couldn't mix it together with the mics for a nice effect. This was ~5 years ago and I still haven't gotten around to finishing that file set and uploading to LMA.
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2015, 09:19:38 PM »
Someone else incorrectly mentioned that only "powered" systems will pass a signal. Any sort of monitor with a thru pass feature will work, it will just pass what it was sent down the line.
I've done it off a non-powered floor wedge. Of course in this case the signal is very hot, since it's amplified speaker level. I did it at a low-key (pizza parlor) Steve Wynn show where I was already running mics, but I had my DAT deck (TCD-D100) as a spare so I decided what the hell I'd run the 1/4" speaker out from the wedge into my deck. I can't remember if I had an attenuator or not and in hindsight if I didn't I could have blown the input stage of the deck. As it turned out, it was definitely distorted, but it was vocals only and not so bad that I couldn't mix it together with the mics for a nice effect. This was ~5 years ago and I still haven't gotten around to finishing that file set and uploading to LMA.

You needed one of these!

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DI100.aspx

"Allows direct connection to speaker outputs with up to 3,000 Watts"



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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2015, 07:44:10 AM »
Can someone clarify something for me? 

Is this thread promoting secretly tapping into venue's sound systems to get mono SBD recordings without a band/venue's knowledge? 

If so, that's IMHO shameful.  There was a bootlegger from the 70's that explained in an article that he used this same basic technique secretly for years on large venue speakers at Led Zep concerts and such.  He made a living selling bootlegs out of Italy for decades until the internet happened and stopped most bootlegging.

If not, then the thread seems mis-titled.

(PS:  I'm sorry, I really don't want to be THAT guy, but then again is that what taperssection is about?  If we don't self police this type of discussion to make sure it's clear that it's above board then what are we here for?)

« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 08:19:25 AM by tonedeaf »

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2015, 08:40:41 AM »
Read the thread. 'SECRET' is tongue in cheek, facetious, or generally in jest. The point of 'secret' was that many folks here don't know of these outputs, and that it may be worth seeing if your local FOH speaker jockey would let you use them. Most places that use these setups won't be pumping much more than vocals and some guitars through them, so a proper tape would be this patch + stage lip or aud matrix. As a former (recovering) sound engineer, I can promise you that if someone plugged into them without permission: a) it will be noticed and b) when the offending taper has been found badly beaten in the dumpster, that c) nobody will know how he got there and d) someone will eventually get around to calling an ambulance. Unless there's cake. Then it will definitely be after the cake.


Can someone clarify something for me? 

Is this thread promoting secretly tapping into venue's sound systems to get mono SBD recordings? 

If so, that's IMHO shameful.  There was a bootlegger from the 70's that explained in an article that he used this same basic technique secretly for years on large venue speakers at Led Zep concerts and such.  He made a living selling bootlegs out of Italy for decades until the internet happened and stopped most bootlegging.

If not, then the thread seems mis-titled.
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2015, 09:23:36 AM »
"Secret" - -definitely a cynical, tongue-in-cheek take - like - "I've taped hundreds of shows with bands using speaker-on-a-stick PAs why the fuck didn't I think of this sooner"

Just pointing out a something that seems to be overlooked by tapers - and could be VERY useful.

No stealth implications - although - I see how "secret" could be misconstrued.

My taping world consists of local bar bands...

Almost all of these bands use speaker on a stick PAs...no engineers, no eqs - if you see an eq, its probably for the monitors.

And, in most cases I'm friends or at least acquainted with the musicians.

For the record - I am the Production Manager and Sound Engineer for The Pennsylvania Opry.

http://www.paopry.com/

We have a 250 seat theatre - running the Behringer X32 feeding a pair of corner mounted Mackie 450s and a set of Community Subs. The Mackies run full range - we use no eqs for the house - or monitors (6 mixes) All effects are from the X32.

Fortunately, we have the speakers mounted about 15 feet above the floor - keeps those pesky bluehair stealthers from climbing up there with their XLRs!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 09:37:58 AM by Life In Rewind »
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2015, 04:19:48 PM »
Change the word "SECRET" to "newly discovered," "overlooked" or something similar.  It looks like a pretty useful idea whatever you want to call it. 

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2015, 09:17:01 PM »

Then it dawned on me - they were using powered speakers - that have an output (for chaining pairs together)...grabbed an XLR cable...POW! - soundboard feed right at my table.


At the club I record at they own 4 passive Yamaha s215v's that I always have access to and since the sound guy is almost always on the run or running behind I need a backup, Although it may not be an ideal way to go, I'd still like to know if I can use the parallel outs on the back of these into a portable recorder. they have XLR and 2- 1/4" outs. I've never tried it out of fear of zapping my mic. but if it's possible I can always use it as a backup source when the SB connection is unavailable or produces bad results from accidental changes made by the sound guy.

Offline PH

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2015, 09:31:17 PM »
Yes you can use them. You need to be downstream of the last speaker in the chain.
I'm not sure what you mean by "zapping your mic" as you wouldn't plug your mic into the speakers.
You will get a mono version of the post-processed signal coming from FOH. 

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2015, 01:58:35 AM »
Yes you can use them. You need to be downstream of the last speaker in the chain. You will get a mono version of the post-processed signal coming from FOH.

thanks, very useful info. I panic without a good backup in place

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2015, 07:06:33 AM »

Then it dawned on me - they were using powered speakers - that have an output (for chaining pairs together)...grabbed an XLR cable...POW! - soundboard feed right at my table.


At the club I record at they own 4 passive Yamaha s215v's that I always have access to and since the sound guy is almost always on the run or running behind I need a backup, Although it may not be an ideal way to go, I'd still like to know if I can use the parallel outs on the back of these into a portable recorder. they have XLR and 2- 1/4" outs. I've never tried it out of fear of zapping my mic. but if it's possible I can always use it as a backup source when the SB connection is unavailable or produces bad results from accidental changes made by the sound guy.

For passives you probably need a DI box...the "Secret" is for powered speakers - i.e. speakers with amps built in and pass though connections.
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Offline ero3030

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2015, 07:30:15 AM »
JGB- Lunt-Fontanne theatre october 15-31 1987.  Tapers patching outta the speakers down by the bathrooms if i remember correctly.  I have my oringal poster framed on my wall from then.  Was young and in ahh with all the sites and sounds.  Would do it all over again!!! Ed
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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2015, 08:47:12 AM »
JGB- Lunt-Fontanne theatre october 15-31 1987.  Tapers patching outta the speakers down by the bathrooms if i remember correctly.  I have my oringal poster framed on my wall from then.  Was young and in ahh with all the sites and sounds.  Would do it all over again!!! Ed
Yep.  Old trick.
The Dead put speakers in the Long Beach Auditorium entrance vestibule area so that people could dance without having to take up aisle space; this was around that same time frame..
The speakers were set up outside the music hall, in the entrance area.  When I went in, I recognized a group of tapers hanging out mighty tight to the speakers.  I've never heard any recordings of them, but i know they're there.  The Dead did do stereo mixes, so I wonder if they were only getting part of a mixed stream?
My favorites were when Healy did the secret FM broadcasts during the 1987 summer run, when there was no taping due to the other bands in the lineups (Dylan, Lindley, Santana).  All you needed was a recorder and a small walkman-like tuner, and you were in there. Dead-Air 100.3 FM
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 08:49:32 AM by m0k3 »
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Offline PH

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2015, 10:04:56 AM »
As has mentioned before..... The signal has nothing to do with the speakers being "active or passive" or powered or unpowered. The signal will be passed to the output if it has one. Virtually every monitor has an output/pass through.

Also, a DI box will have zero effect on the signal coming out of a monitor/speaker. The only advantage to that would be converting the signal from TS to XLR, but completely unnecessary if your recorder can take a TS or TRS signal.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 12:14:54 PM by PH »

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2015, 02:20:58 PM »
As has mentioned before..... The signal has nothing to do with the speakers being "active or passive" or powered or unpowered. The signal will be passed to the output if it has one. Virtually every monitor has an output/pass through.

Also, a DI box will have zero effect on the signal coming out of a monitor/speaker. The only advantage to that would be converting the signal from TS to XLR, but completely unnecessary if your recorder can take a TS or TRS signal.

Isn't a passive speaker going to be pushing a much higher voltage? Maybe Im assuming the wrong thing here...

I've seen guys use DIs on tube amps speaker outs...
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Offline dakapc

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2015, 12:51:28 AM »
As has mentioned before..... The signal has nothing to do with the speakers being "active or passive" or powered or unpowered. The signal will be passed to the output if it has one. Virtually every monitor has an output/pass through.

Great thanks for the in/out power/unpowered info.

I was with the poster above thinking it would have a lot of wattage passing through it (long time car stereo installer) so based on that old experience I was in the mindset of passing through the speakers the wattage would come through in attempt to run the next speaker in line and "ohm down" the power source as in car audio.

nothing to lose here, I have 2 old zoom h1's, I will run from the speaker xlr out via xlr to 3.5mm cable with the built in adjustable attenuator and see what happens.

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2015, 01:15:31 AM »
As has mentioned before..... The signal has nothing to do with the speakers being "active or passive" or powered or unpowered. The signal will be passed to the output if it has one. Virtually every monitor has an output/pass through.

Also, a DI box will have zero effect on the signal coming out of a monitor/speaker. The only advantage to that would be converting the signal from TS to XLR, but completely unnecessary if your recorder can take a TS or TRS signal.

Isn't a passive speaker going to be pushing a much higher voltage? Maybe Im assuming the wrong thing here...

I've seen guys use DIs on tube amps speaker outs...

I vote down any attempts to patch into passive speakers without explicit house permission and testing long before doors You are changing the load on the speakers.

Active speakers have line level outputs that could be patched. You are however working on the back panel of house equipment, with filter switches, volume pots, other processing, and the potential for affecting the show negatively.

Think of it as a board patch in a more/less convenient location. If you don't have permission, don't do it. I know crew who would not take kindly to finding a recorder patched into their PA.
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2015, 07:54:01 AM »
As has mentioned before..... The signal has nothing to do with the speakers being "active or passive" or powered or unpowered. The signal will be passed to the output if it has one. Virtually every monitor has an output/pass through.

Also, a DI box will have zero effect on the signal coming out of a monitor/speaker. The only advantage to that would be converting the signal from TS to XLR, but completely unnecessary if your recorder can take a TS or TRS signal.

Isn't a passive speaker going to be pushing a much higher voltage? Maybe Im assuming the wrong thing here...

I've seen guys use DIs on tube amps speaker outs...

I vote down any attempts to patch into passive speakers without explicit house permission and testing long before doors You are changing the load on the speakers.

Active speakers have line level outputs that could be patched. You are however working on the back panel of house equipment, with filter switches, volume pots, other processing, and the potential for affecting the show negatively.

Think of it as a board patch in a more/less convenient location. If you don't have permission, don't do it. I know crew who would not take kindly to finding a recorder patched into their PA.

^^^Agree^^^ (even if it is safe for your recorder) -  Way too risky to plug into passive speakers - you could really screw up the whole show if you had a bad cable or such...or turned on phantom, etc.

This "secret" approach is really best for small bar/club taping where you know someone in the band and/or permission and easy access to the connection. (like the speaker is right next to you table.)

Also - should make sure your patch cable is taped down with no possibility of a trip pulling the speaker/stand over.
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Offline dakapc

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Re: SECRET soundboard patch...
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2015, 09:44:24 PM »

[/quote]

^^^Agree^^^ (even if it is safe for your recorder) -  Way too risky to plug into passive speakers - you could really screw up the whole show if you had a bad cable or such...or turned on phantom, etc.

This "secret" approach is really best for small bar/club taping where you know someone in the band and/or permission and easy access to the connection. (like the speaker is right next to you table.)

Also - should make sure your patch cable is taped down with no possibility of a trip pulling the speaker/stand over.
[/quote]

I am friends with the owners and the promotions guy, he actually gets me all the permissions from national bands to record, so I won't have to worry about permissions, typically he has me come in 2 hours before doors to set up cameras so that will give us ample time to try it out at the next soundcheck before a show.

I feared there might be repercussions/risks that's why I asked, so I will use extreme caution and see what happens at the next soundcheck.

alternately, I do have the speaker specs so I could replicate the scenario with my speakers at home that are the same ohms and receiving a lot of power. if it's a hit or miss I will post that info back here once I am sure the results are consistent.

 

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