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Author Topic: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do  (Read 2324 times)

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Offline Ringside

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1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« on: July 04, 2015, 01:11:01 PM »
Afternoon all,

At some point I'd like to upgrade my entry level Sony camcorder and get a new beast. Initially I was thinking about trying out a Canon G20, but for roughly the same price there are several 4k options available too, such at the Panasonic VX870.

I toyed with the idea of a DSLR but I find them to be uncomfortable after a few minutes of continuous handheld shooting. (I mainly shoot in bars and small clubs so no tripod)

1080 would be fine, but for the same money I'm thinking it may be worth going with 4k. Especially if it means I can record at 4k, render at 1080 and zoom pan / crop where required, and not lose any quality.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Offline shoestringconcerts

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 01:53:12 AM »
Panasonic FZ1000

don't bother with the VX870, not good in low light
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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 02:38:47 AM »
I just got one of these: http://store.sony.com/full-hd-60p-camcorder-zid27-HDRCX405/B/cat-27-catid-All-Handycam-Camcorders

It does pretty good in low light. Happy so far.
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Offline Datfly

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 07:32:07 AM »
If you are in no rush and like Sony wait a little until this comes out.

The RX10 has, at least to me, the PERFECT flip out screen for what we do. This sounds exciting.
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Offline Bruce Watson

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 09:18:54 AM »
... (I mainly shoot in bars and small clubs so no tripod)

1080 would be fine, but for the same money I'm thinking it may be worth going with 4k. Especially if it means I can record at 4k, render at 1080 and zoom pan / crop where required, and not lose any quality.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

My thoughts include the idea that there's really no free lunch. If it costs the same, you will loose quality. Have to. The smaller pixels points to more noise in low light. The 4x processing required of each frame points toward lower frame rates for the same money. The 4k image with the same size sensor(s) puts a premium on lens quality. Etc. I'm just saying that for the same money, you're almost required to get less image quality.

My other thoughts include the idea that if you're hand holding, just like with a stills camera, you aren't putting a premium on sharpness. So, why the interest in 4k?

The sole advantage I can see is the ability to pan/tilt and crop in post (if your output is going to be HD or lower of course). But, that's a PITA to do if you have to do it all the time. I'm a fan of trying to capture correctly as much as possible to minimize post processing.

You didn't ask for advice, so feel free to reject mine out of hand -- but my advice is to go for a better HD camera, maybe one that can give you higher frame rates (that you can use for slow motion, because everyone looks better in slow motion), or better/faster glass, or better/faster in camera image stabilization, and of course better low light capabilities. The HD cameras are darn good now, while the 4k cameras are all in their infancy still.

EDIT: Oh yes, how could I forget? Get one that that has XLR inputs. If you're going to be recording in a bar, you're going to be recording in a den of RF devices. Even if your camera only gets a scratch track so you can sync to a recorder in post, it helps if the scratch track is listenable. Just sayin'.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 09:21:46 AM by Bruce Watson »

Offline Ringside

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2015, 08:34:05 PM »
Panasonic FZ1000

don't bother with the VX870, not good in low light


I've thought about the FZ1000 after seeing some clips on here, a couple of things that put me off are the fact that in the past I've found DSLR style cameras to be uncomfortable to hold for periods of time, and I believe there's a limit on the video length? That one isn't a mega huge deal, more so the comfort as I wouldn't be using a tripod most of the time.

Offline Ringside

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2015, 08:34:56 PM »
If you are in no rush and like Sony wait a little until this comes out.

The RX10 has, at least to me, the PERFECT flip out screen for what we do. This sounds exciting.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1159880-REG/sony_dsc_rx10_mark_2_digital.html

It does look good, I just didn't want to lay that much money down. In time it would obviously be cheaper but it would take a while I'm sure. My limit is maybe $800.

Offline Ringside

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2015, 08:42:14 PM »
... (I mainly shoot in bars and small clubs so no tripod)

1080 would be fine, but for the same money I'm thinking it may be worth going with 4k. Especially if it means I can record at 4k, render at 1080 and zoom pan / crop where required, and not lose any quality.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

My thoughts include the idea that there's really no free lunch. If it costs the same, you will loose quality. Have to. The smaller pixels points to more noise in low light. The 4x processing required of each frame points toward lower frame rates for the same money. The 4k image with the same size sensor(s) puts a premium on lens quality. Etc. I'm just saying that for the same money, you're almost required to get less image quality.

My other thoughts include the idea that if you're hand holding, just like with a stills camera, you aren't putting a premium on sharpness. So, why the interest in 4k?

The sole advantage I can see is the ability to pan/tilt and crop in post (if your output is going to be HD or lower of course). But, that's a PITA to do if you have to do it all the time. I'm a fan of trying to capture correctly as much as possible to minimize post processing.

You didn't ask for advice, so feel free to reject mine out of hand -- but my advice is to go for a better HD camera, maybe one that can give you higher frame rates (that you can use for slow motion, because everyone looks better in slow motion), or better/faster glass, or better/faster in camera image stabilization, and of course better low light capabilities. The HD cameras are darn good now, while the 4k cameras are all in their infancy still.

EDIT: Oh yes, how could I forget? Get one that that has XLR inputs. If you're going to be recording in a bar, you're going to be recording in a den of RF devices. Even if your camera only gets a scratch track so you can sync to a recorder in post, it helps if the scratch track is listenable. Just sayin'.

Thanks for the lengthy post, well at the moment I'm just throwing ideas around and asking for input.....I was interested in 4K as it seems at some point it may well be quite common place, as 1080 is now.

I agree with what you said about HD vs 4K though, at the same price point, there's obviously some compromise on the "higher spec" cam.

I really need to try out the G20,  I have a feeling that once I've used it, I'd love it. Hmm.

Offline fguidry

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2015, 02:03:51 PM »
As far as HD vs 4K cost vs quality, it's possible that tech progress offsets the cost difference rather than the tradeoffs listed above. There's not a necessary relationship between video resolution, photosite size, and low light performance, for instance. Most video cameras have relatively tiny sensors compared to the 1" of the FZ1000, let alone the m4/3, APSC, or FF sensors.

Fran

Offline BlackLab

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Re: 1080p camcorder vs 4k camcorder.....what to do
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2015, 04:17:18 PM »
If you are in no rush and like Sony wait a little until this comes out.

The RX10 has, at least to me, the PERFECT flip out screen for what we do. This sounds exciting.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1159880-REG/sony_dsc_rx10_mark_2_digital.html

the RX10 just seems to big too take into a concert w/o security issues. I do love idea of better zoom compared to RX100 IV tho

 

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