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Author Topic: Zoom F8 - Part 2  (Read 46824 times)

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Offline Sonus Captor

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2015, 11:55:02 AM »
My Tascam DR-70 has digital pots too, but doesn't produce any audible stepping noise.


Offline scorsesefan

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2015, 01:05:59 PM »
My Tascam DR-70 has digital pots too, but doesn't produce any audible stepping noise.

To my knowledge it was only an issue with the DR-60D MK I.

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2015, 02:16:51 PM »
My Tascam DR-70 has digital pots too, but doesn't produce any audible stepping noise.

Implemting click-less digital gain is complicated. There are huge application notes and patents dedicated to the issue, so it's hardly trivial. It's cool that the Tascam has implemented this feature on the 70-D, but was that really a good use of development resources when the unit can barely record a show without the memory card taking a shit? That's rhetorical, of course.

The real point I'm trying to make is that the F8, for as good as it may be, is still unquestionably being sold at a low-end price point and purely in the consumer, not professional, market. I don't disagree that click-less digital gain should be a requested feature, but to complain about this missing feature "is not acceptable" is absurd.



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Offline Sonus Captor

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #78 on: December 29, 2015, 03:37:06 PM »
No comment...

stevetoney

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #79 on: December 29, 2015, 07:13:19 PM »
I just checked my F8 for trim knob noise by recording my living room's background sound (quiet with no music or TV sounds) with Schoeps mics plugged directly into the unit (no preamp) while moving the trim knobs on channels 1 and 2 up and down a number of times both rapidly and slowly/gradually.  I then loaded the file on my DAW and amplified the pertinent sections.  On playback I heard plenty of room background noise as I moved the gain knobs up to max level and back down again, but no zipping or clicking sounds. 

This certainly wasn't an extensive test by any means.  Simply three or four quick cycles through the complete gain range both fast and slow...first on channel 1 and then on channel 2.  The resulting file was three minutes long.

I record live music and have used the unit now to record two festivals and a good number of shows.  Although I suppose it's possible that any noise that might have happened could have been masked by the volume of the music, I haven't heard any noise issues thus far on any of my recordings. 

Others might reach different conclusions if they conduct more extensive testing and/or record in low-decibel environments, but as far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 08:03:34 PM by tonedeaf »

stevetoney

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #80 on: December 29, 2015, 07:21:57 PM »
My Tascam DR-70 has digital pots too, but doesn't produce any audible stepping noise.

This is the Zoom F8 forum, but with respect to the DR70D, you might want to check the DR70D history forum.  Plenty of users have reported digi-noise issues on the pots on their recorders, me included.  This was discussed back prior to the hulabaloo started about the approved cards.  My digi-noise issues don't show up until the gain settings are at mic-in on the input menu and the level is at the one of the two higher gain settings.  To prevent this, I've only used Line In on the input menu. 

stevetoney

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #81 on: December 29, 2015, 08:00:44 PM »
I loaded V2.0 earlier today and played around with it a bit.  Change is good, but I'm not sure I like all of the changes, especially the change that allows the trim knob to control mixer settings.  I don't see the point since the select encoder does the same thing.  It makes it frustrating if you've changed the setting to 'mixer' but then forget to switch it back.  You start recording and go to adjust levels and they're disabled due to this selection.   

I really don't like how they implemented the channel ganging control at all.  I mean, it's definitely nice to have and an improvement, but right now IMHO it's VERY cumbersome to implement and I think one more tweak is needed to make it work right. 

So, in order to implement ganging, you go into the Input Menu and choose Trim Link.  Whenever more than one channel is highlighted under a Group A, B, C, or D choice in the Trim Link submenu, the first channel in that group controls the levels of all the channels in that group.  The channels in that group cannot be controlled individually until the channels are un-linked by deselecting all of the channels in the Trim Link submenu, or by choosing 'Clear All' at the bottom of the submenu. 

So, let's say you're running four channels and the show starts.  Almost everyone I know would want to leave channels un-linked for the first part of the show so that all of the channels can be set so they're peaking around the same point.  Fortunately, the user is now able to open the Input menu while recording and call up the Trim Link submenu to choose to link all four channels.  However, unfortunately at this point, the user must select each of the four channels in the submenu to include in the ganged group (rather than say having them already pre-set and simply toggling the preset group ON).

So, the show progresses and you've changed to ganged level controls.  Now let's say your level on one of the channels starts to diverge from the levels of the others and you need to tweak a single channel.  The only way I can see to do this is to go back into the Trim Link submenu and, either one-by-one clear all of the selected channels from the groups or go to the bottom and select 'clear all'.  Now, since there are no channels highlighted in the Trim Link submenu, channel linking is now disabled so you can adjust the one channel that needs adjustment. 

Now that you've got the channels balanced again, next thing is you want to go back and re-link all of the channels again, right?  Well, in order to do that you've got to start all over again and redefine the channels you want assigned to the linked group.  That's just very cumbersome.

A much better design would have been to implement a channel linking ON/OFF toggle on the shortcut menu so that once you set up your groups in the Trim Link menu, you don't have to re-enter them every time you want to implement channel linking.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 05:37:16 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline acidjack

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #82 on: December 29, 2015, 11:00:44 PM »
^ Once again, really appreciate the input. Trying it out tomorrow.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun
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Offline dactylus

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #83 on: December 29, 2015, 11:13:18 PM »
Very interesting.  Some things have really changed in the last 24 months!  Thanks for the input tonedeaf.
hot licks > microphones > recorder



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Offline scorsesefan

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #84 on: December 29, 2015, 11:25:02 PM »
I just checked my F8 for trim knob noise by recording my living room's background sound (quiet with no music or TV sounds) with Schoeps mics plugged directly into the unit (no preamp) while moving the trim knobs on channels 1 and 2 up and down a number of times both rapidly and slowly/gradually.  I then loaded the file on my DAW and amplified the pertinent sections.  On playback I heard plenty of room background noise as I moved the gain knobs up to max level and back down again, but no zipping or clicking sounds. 

This certainly wasn't an extensive test by any means.  Simply three or four quick cycles through the complete gain range both fast and slow...first on channel 1 and then on channel 2.  The resulting file was three minutes long.

I record live music and have used the unit now to record two festivals and a good number of shows.  Although I suppose it's possible that any noise that might have happened could have been masked by the volume of the music, I haven't heard any noise issues thus far on any of my recordings. 

Others might reach different conclusions if they conduct more extensive testing and/or record in low-decibel environments, but as far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue.

Thanks, Tonedeaf. You've been a great resource for feedback on the unit...

Offline Sonus Captor

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #85 on: December 30, 2015, 03:27:20 AM »
I just checked my F8 for trim knob noise (...) but as far as I'm concerned, this is a non-issue.

Good to hear. Thanks yery much for testing!

Offline IronFilm

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #86 on: December 30, 2015, 04:09:23 AM »
Another review of the F8 with pics of it showing a couple of other common ones (well, at the low end.... such as Tascam DR-70D) so you can see its relative size:
http://www.lightformfilm.com/blog/zoom-f8-impressions/

Offline Ukiah Bass

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #87 on: December 30, 2015, 04:27:51 PM »
Installed firmware 2.0 and tested the Trim Link (ganging) feature.  Easy to use. I implemented it with two channels for a stereo X/Y pair of Telefunken M60s.  Perfect application, and it worked perfectly.  So far I'm very pleased with the F8.  It's a big step up from my H6, which I've used extensively for live performance recording.  The F8's preamps sound much better than the H6 in recording tests of my bass. Using the F8 will be a solid step up in recording quality.

Offline Jonmac

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #88 on: December 30, 2015, 05:54:47 PM »
I loaded V2.0 earlier today and played around with it a bit.  Change is good, but I'm not sure I like all of the changes, especially the change that allows the trim knob to control mixer settings.  I don't see the point since the select encoder does the same thing.  It makes it frustrating if you've changed the setting to 'mixer' but then forget to switch it back.  You start recording and go to adjust levels and they're disabled due to this selection.   

The mixer setting is required by the Film and Video people, who want to send a real time controllable mix to a camera or separate stereo track, without changing the levels of the recorded ISO tracks.

A facility essential for the Film and Video recordists, who are the main target for the F8, but of little use to the taper community.






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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: Zoom F8 - Part 2
« Reply #89 on: December 31, 2015, 08:01:12 AM »
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/F8d

$899.99

Demo unit...but, its Sweetwater...

(posting this here instead of retail - since its only 1 unit.)
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TASCAM DR-70D/Tricorder

 

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