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Offline ScottT

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What multi-track software are you using?
« on: July 02, 2016, 09:43:23 PM »
I just picked up a 4-channel recorder and am realizing that SoundForge - which I have used since version 4.5 came bundled with my ZA2 soundcard! - isn't up to the task of handling multi-track recordings.   Can anyone recommend what they use or provide an overview what's out there?  I've seen folks mention using Audition, Reaper, and Audacity.  I'm sure they provide the same essential functionality but must have pros and cons.

I run Windows and only perform basic editing other than using a VST plug-in (Waves L3 Multimaximizer).  I work in IT so I'm not afraid of discovering new software...
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Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2016, 09:51:02 PM »
Reaper, hands down best for price.

Non destructive multitrack. VST host. Good bundled plugins. Free, uncrippled trial. $70 purchase price.

I've used Audacity, don't care for it. Own Soundforge, find myself in Reaper unless I need a pencil tool.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2016, 10:55:29 PM »
Reaper, hands down best for price.

Non destructive multitrack. VST host. Good bundled plugins. Free, uncrippled trial. $70 purchase price.

I've used Audacity, don't care for it. Own Soundforge, find myself in Reaper unless I need a pencil tool.

Reaper, +1000.  I've been using it for years, and like it so much better than any other DAW I've tried.  Besides the reasons Scoobie mentioned, it's highly customizable to your needs (many skins and extensions out there), graphical routing matrix to send any input to any output, and best of all, no limitations on track counts (it can do whatever your hardware can handle).

Speaking of extensions, I've recently come across this guide which has been saving me a ton of time using the SWS Extensions for Reaper.  Don't let the "classical music" scare you off - this is pretty much good info for anyone who does "concert" recordings:
http://urosbaric.com/reaper-classical-music-editing

One thing that the blog posts above don't mention about SWS Extensions is how much they speed up track splits and exports for a concert recording. 

1. Drop markers in your timeline for track in/out points and name the markers with track names.
2. Extensions > Marker List (see right window in screenshot below).  You can click on any marker to jump to that point. 
3. Right-click in the Marker List and select Convert Markers to Regions, it creates region for each track between consecutive markers. 
4. File > Render, and make your bounds Project Regions.  It then renders all of your tracks. 
5. You can even use wildcards in the File Name box.  For example: $regionnumber $region will automatically number the tracks by the region number and auto name by the name you gave them.  I prefer to just use $region and I make the marker titles have the track number in them (ex. 01 First Song 02 Second Song etc.), because my markers are usually placed out of order and I don't bother fixing them.

You'll notice for the project I'm showing that there are bunch of unnamed markers.  This was a choir concert of various groups with applause, talking, transitions between groups which I edited out, to produce tracks of just music.  If you're doing the typical concert taper thing of documenting the whole event, you wouldn't have those.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 11:03:49 PM by voltronic »
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Offline Ronmac

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2016, 06:39:19 AM »
Of all the Daws I use I recommend Reaper to anyone looking for an inexpensive and powerful tool. It is also the DAW I use the most.

Offline goodcooker

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2016, 10:53:07 AM »
Wavelab 6. You may even have it already :D PM for details.
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Offline ScottT

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2016, 07:10:46 PM »
I played around with Reaper and Wavelab yesterday.  I was able to load two stereo sources (SBD + AUD) and get them aligned.  Applying the VST plug-in as part of chain of effects was different from what I'm used to (configure the plug-in and apply to the file creating a visibly obvious change to the wave form), but it worked in both programs.  I struggled a bit with a couple basic tasks - I suppose this is part of the learning curve.

I Googled and went through all the menus in Reaper but could not find a simple way to increase the volume of a short segment of audience participation in the AUD source.  Could they make it more confusing?  In SoundForge you click-drag to highlight the portion you want, go to Process> Volume, and move the slider bar up or down to alter the volume of the selection.  I still need to wrap my head around the different vocabulary, because "Take Volume Envelope Automation" seems unnecessarily complex for making a four second passage slightly louder.

I switched to Wavelab where I stumbled a bit over applying fade ins and outs and dropping markers for track separation.  It was getting quite late so I rendered the project as-is and performed the remaining tasks in SoundForge.  The end result is here:  https://archive.org/details/dirtfoot2015-10-16.matrix.flac16

Does anyone use a multi-track editor for the majority of their workflow?  I've always used r8brain, Trader's Little Helper (after FLAC FrontEnd became obsolete with 64-bit operating systems), and the Live Show Tagger/Foobar2000 after I finish in SoundForge.  I imagined that I would ditch SoundForge for whatever DAW I switch to, but maybe I'm just adding one more application to the front end of my workflow.
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Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2016, 08:02:58 PM »
I played around with Reaper and Wavelab yesterday.  I was able to load two stereo sources (SBD + AUD) and get them aligned.  Applying the VST plug-in as part of chain of effects was different from what I'm used to (configure the plug-in and apply to the file creating a visibly obvious change to the wave form), but it worked in both programs.  I struggled a bit with a couple basic tasks - I suppose this is part of the learning curve.

I Googled and went through all the menus in Reaper but could not find a simple way to increase the volume of a short segment of audience participation in the AUD source.  Could they make it more confusing?  In SoundForge you click-drag to highlight the portion you want, go to Process> Volume, and move the slider bar up or down to alter the volume of the selection.  I still need to wrap my head around the different vocabulary, because "Take Volume Envelope Automation" seems unnecessarily complex for making a four second passage slightly louder.

I switched to Wavelab where I stumbled a bit over applying fade ins and outs and dropping markers for track separation.  It was getting quite late so I rendered the project as-is and performed the remaining tasks in SoundForge.  The end result is here:  https://archive.org/details/dirtfoot2015-10-16.matrix.flac16

Does anyone use a multi-track editor for the majority of their workflow?  I've always used r8brain, Trader's Little Helper (after FLAC FrontEnd became obsolete with 64-bit operating systems), and the Live Show Tagger/Foobar2000 after I finish in SoundForge.  I imagined that I would ditch SoundForge for whatever DAW I switch to, but maybe I'm just adding one more application to the front end of my workflow.

In Reaper hit V. click on the line to add points, drag these points to adjust volume in that section.

The main thing to understand, and it's the beauty of non-destructive editors like Reaper is that you aren't ever modifying your original file. The master is untouched. What you are doing is storing a list of changes that you want to make to the file/s. Then when you render, you create a new file with these changes.

Not only can you automate volume, you can automate pans, compressor settings and more. (have a singer's scream that's louder than everything else?Put a compressor on it, and automate the threshold so it only kicks in on the scream.)

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Offline voltronic

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2016, 08:07:11 PM »
I played around with Reaper and Wavelab yesterday.  I was able to load two stereo sources (SBD + AUD) and get them aligned.  Applying the VST plug-in as part of chain of effects was different from what I'm used to (configure the plug-in and apply to the file creating a visibly obvious change to the wave form), but it worked in both programs.  I struggled a bit with a couple basic tasks - I suppose this is part of the learning curve.

I Googled and went through all the menus in Reaper but could not find a simple way to increase the volume of a short segment of audience participation in the AUD source.  Could they make it more confusing?  In SoundForge you click-drag to highlight the portion you want, go to Process> Volume, and move the slider bar up or down to alter the volume of the selection.  I still need to wrap my head around the different vocabulary, because "Take Volume Envelope Automation" seems unnecessarily complex for making a four second passage slightly louder.

I switched to Wavelab where I stumbled a bit over applying fade ins and outs and dropping markers for track separation.  It was getting quite late so I rendered the project as-is and performed the remaining tasks in SoundForge.  The end result is here:  https://archive.org/details/dirtfoot2015-10-16.matrix.flac16

Does anyone use a multi-track editor for the majority of their workflow?  I've always used r8brain, Trader's Little Helper (after FLAC FrontEnd became obsolete with 64-bit operating systems), and the Live Show Tagger/Foobar2000 after I finish in SoundForge.  I imagined that I would ditch SoundForge for whatever DAW I switch to, but maybe I'm just adding one more application to the front end of my workflow.

You can't use the same procedures for Reaper and Wavelab because they are two different kinds of programs.  Wavelab is a wave editor meant for editing mono or stereo tracks, whereas Reaper is a full-out multitrack DAW.

If you were to make a time selection in Reaper and then ask it to do a gain change or anything else to that selected area, it would do that to all of the tracks which have any content at that time, be they 1 or 100.

Using volume envelopes as Scoobie recommends is, IMO, simply the correct way to do this.  It also allows you to get very precise with points, curves, etc. and is very similar to how video effect automation is done in multitrack NLE video software.  You are changing the track volume for that track only, whereas in Wavelab you are changing the volume of the entire project at that time selection.

That said, there is another way to adjust the volume of an isolated section a bit more similar to what you did in Wavelab (but again, it's not worth comparing the two programs).  Every Item in Reaper has it's own adjustments,

1. Mark the beginning and end of the section you want to adjust.
2. Position the cursor at the first marker and hit ALT+Z to split at a zero crossing.*  Do the same at the end marker.
3. You now have a separate "item" to play with.  Hover your mouse over the top edge of the item and you'll get a double-headed arrow.  Drag up or down to adjust the gain of that item.
4. If you right-click the item and select "Item Properties" a window with many more options will appear.
5. When you're done adjusting that item, Shift+Click to select the item you edited and the items before and after, right-click and select "Glue Items".

*ALT+Z is different than the regular "S" split, which does an auto fade in/out by default and will cause you to hear a little pop at your edit point as the volume will go down to zero and then right back up again.  This would remain even when you "Glue" the items back together later.  ALT+Z (split at zero crossing) avoids this.  Know that by doing the split this way, it may not be exactly where you dropped your marker, but will be at the nearest zero crossing in the waveform.

Note that by using this method, you still may hear the edit points.  If you use the Track Volume envelope, there's no edit points to be audible. ;D


The only other way to do this and not hear the edits would be to follow the above steps, through Step 4, and then:

5. Drag your volume-edited item straight down and it will pop into a new track.
6. Hover over the left edge to get a double-horizontal arrow.  Drag left a little bit to extend the track out a second or so earlier.  Do the same on the right side.
7. Drag that item straight up back to where it used to be.  It will automatically crossfade the overlapping sections.
8. Make sure to "Glue" the items back together so you can move everything around later if need be.  Or leave them as separate items to tweak your level adjustments, crossfades, etc.

See screenshots below to see what this looks like.  (The reason the waveforms show "offline" is because I'm using an ASIO audio driver which takes the source tracks offline when the application loses focus - in this case when I'm taking screenshots.)
While the two procedures I've described will certainly work for you, I hope you see that just clicking V and putting some points in to adjust the volume is fairly quick and easy.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 08:13:37 PM by voltronic »
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2016, 04:54:36 PM »

 "Wavelab is a wave editor meant for editing mono or stereo tracks"

^ That's not really true. You can edit and mix as many tracks as you like in the Wavelab Montage VERY easily. I do it all the time.

You are correct in saying that it's an apples and oranges comparison. Reaper is more geared towards mixing and Wavelab is more geared towards mastering.

I don't know if you have used Wavelab much but what you say about gain changing "whereas in Wavelab you are changing the volume of the entire project at that time selection" is just not correct. You can highlight any section of any track (or any entire track, or multiple tracks) with your mouse and only process that portion you selected.

Scott - I use Wavelab for everything up to track splits which I still do in CD Wave Editor. One weird thing is that the volume envelope tool is in the Montage feature.
The gain tools I use most are under Process > Change Level > Find peak level > adjust to suit. You can select any part of the waveform and apply any amount of +/- gain in the pop up window. I sometimes use this to zoom in and knock down a few peaks instead of opening it up in the Montage to use the volume envelope tool and use it instead of normalize to get to -.5 dB before adding some Waves L3.

Hit me up via PM or just ask here in this thread if you need a few pointers on editing functions. If you are used to Soundforge you should be able to wrap your head around Wavelab pretty quickly.
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2016, 05:39:55 PM »
I also use WaveLab v6.11 for doing my 4 channel matrixes, and as goodcooker stated, you can do as many tracks as you want with the "Audio Montage" windows! I just like using WL 6.11 to do the mastering and multitracking, because I can then Dither/Resample with WL once I'm done with my multi-Channel mix, instead of having to switch programs again! I like being able to just use ONE program for my mastering and multitrack stuff and I use WL for ALL mastering and multi-track mixing, and then CD Wave to track and for cue sheets, and then Traders Little Helper to FLAC/make ckecksums, and then MP3Tag to tag my FLACs/MP3s

I have never used Reaper so I cant comment on it, but it sounds like its geared more towards the multi-track mixing part of the game, vs WL being geared more towards the mastering part of the game. That said, I'm used to WL and have been using it for well over a decade already, so I am very used to it by now! I also have SF 10.0a and sometimes use it just for the iZotope 64Bit SRC Resampler[since I cant find it for WL?!?!], but I normally use WL 6 to dither/resample with WL's Crystal Resampler and iZotope's MBIT+ Dither once I have rendered my Multi-Track mix in the Audio Montage!
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Offline voltronic

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2016, 05:43:35 PM »

 "Wavelab is a wave editor meant for editing mono or stereo tracks"

^ That's not really true. You can edit and mix as many tracks as you like in the Wavelab Montage VERY easily. I do it all the time.

You are correct in saying that it's an apples and oranges comparison. Reaper is more geared towards mixing and Wavelab is more geared towards mastering.

I don't know if you have used Wavelab much but what you say about gain changing "whereas in Wavelab you are changing the volume of the entire project at that time selection" is just not correct. You can highlight any section of any track (or any entire track, or multiple tracks) with your mouse and only process that portion you selected.

Scott - I use Wavelab for everything up to track splits which I still do in CD Wave Editor. One weird thing is that the volume envelope tool is in the Montage feature.
The gain tools I use most are under Process > Change Level > Find peak level > adjust to suit. You can select any part of the waveform and apply any amount of +/- gain in the pop up window. I sometimes use this to zoom in and knock down a few peaks instead of opening it up in the Montage to use the volume envelope tool and use it instead of normalize to get to -.5 dB before adding some Waves L3.

Hit me up via PM or just ask here in this thread if you need a few pointers on editing functions. If you are used to Soundforge you should be able to wrap your head around Wavelab pretty quickly.

Yeah, you're right and I was off base.  I was completely thinking of Sound Forge when I wrote that post!  Whoops.
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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2016, 12:03:18 PM »
Reaper is a great program, but there is a learning curve.  I found Kenny Gioia's tutorial videos at Groove3  very helpful and a time saver in learning the program.

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2016, 01:21:59 PM »
Has anyone come across a good ANDROID multitrack?

N-track has been around forever...but I can't find much feedback on their Android app...

http://en.ntrack.com/android-multitrack-studio.php
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Offline SacredMetal

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2016, 09:25:03 PM »


In Reaper hit V. click on the line to add points, drag these points to adjust volume in that section.

The main thing to understand, and it's the beauty of non-destructive editors like Reaper is that you aren't ever modifying your original file. The master is untouched. What you are doing is storing a list of changes that you want to make to the file/s. Then when you render, you create a new file with these changes.

Not only can you automate volume, you can automate pans, compressor settings and more. (have a singer's scream that's louder than everything else?Put a compressor on it, and automate the threshold so it only kicks in on the scream.)


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Offline SacredMetal

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2016, 09:42:54 PM »
Ok, this will possibly sound like a stupid question because my mixing & editing  is not as advanced as you all.

So the question is I have 4-6 tracks recorded obviously and I want to bring them all together in one program, but each mic may or may not have picked up something I want to get rid of. Is there a way to repair all the tracks or select what I wish to work on.

Most of my work when I edit is cut & trim to take beginning dialog and end dialog out. Usually one set of mics may get overloaded so I work only on that track(s) But sometimes I need to clean up all of them at once. Like if I'm at a location or major event and there is another event going on next door. So I may pick up some muffled chatter. That being said, sometimes one mic picks it up more that the others & so forth. But I have found that if I just use a cutoff filter it thins out the gongs sound. So in past (which takes much longer) I clean up the worst tracks 1st, working my way to the better ones next then blend them in & clean up afterwards.

This can take hours upon hours.   :banging head:

Some audience is fine but talking or laughing really ruins the piece especially if from elsewhere leaking in.

So the questions are: do you combine & then repair or work separately. My ole' skool mind is still stuck in razor blades & block land (yes I still know how to do that). :smash:

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Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2016, 11:13:40 PM »
You can repair and make adjustments at the track level, then run other processing on the master bus to tie it all together.

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2016, 01:39:43 PM »
A Windows 10 update temporarily hosed my Wavelab 6 and therefore I downloaded and poked around a little in Reaper.  I obviously do not the patience to work through the learning curve.  It was not intuitive for me at all but I have also only ever used Soundforge and Wavelab which are both very GUI-point-and-click oriented.

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2016, 05:41:06 PM »
Quote
What multi-track software are you using?

Samplitude

I originally bought into Samplitude back in '06 (version 10) because it was one of the few "one stop shops" in which I could do all workflow processing in one program, from editing to mixing, tracking and CD/DVD burning, and because the V10 Mastering version included their Cleaning & Restoration Suite, with advanced spectral-editing, noise-reduction and other tools comparable to Izotope RX.  It's "big brother" program, Sequoia, is well regarded and a common choice of professional mastering services.  Although Sequoia is a much more costly program targeting mastering professionals, the two have grown comparable in most features over the years and these days Samp pretty much does everything audio related most of us will ever need - including advanced support for my multi-channel surround recording stuff.  It seems to be more commonly used for non-mastering work (recording/mixing) in Europe than in the US.  The developers are German, and it seems to reflect the German engineering approach we've come to expect from fine German microphones and cars- excellent performance, thorough features, somewhat complex. 

Like other similarly advanced software it has a pretty significant learning curve and a unique workflow.  Honestly I have not used it extensively enough over the years to really feel comfortable in it, but I've been able to achieve whatever I need, given time to figure it out.  It's an extremely capable audio multi-track and WAV editor primarily, although it's MIDI features (which I've never used) have also grown very extensive.  It was one of the earlier DAW softwares to offer non-destructive editing, and it's "object-oriented" approach is still somewhat unique, although other software may now offer similar functionality.  Basically all editing, eq, effects, time-stretching , routing, and whatever else can be done at "object level" as well as at the "track level".  Those applications can "move with the object" wherever it is copied or moved in the project.  It's a highly flexible approach, once one knows their way around the program.

I'm currently evaluating a 30 day trial upgrade to Samplitude X3 Pro (basically version 14), which includes a new more advanced version of the Cleaning & Restoration Suite as well as SoundForge Pro (Samplitude's parent company Magix bought Sony's audio software catalog last spring), high-quality built in eq's and dynamics, and a bunch of stuff I'll rarely use such as a large sampler library, an advanced guitar/bass amplifier modeler, and advanced effects suites.  It also includes native Dolby digital encoding, unfortunately DTS encoding is not built-in.

The non-Pro version does not include the advanced version of the Cleaning & Restoration Suite, but does include less advanced versions of the same tools which may be applied at object level, nor does it include SoundForge Pro (not yet sure how the integral editing features of Samp and the editing features of SoundForge compare/overlap - I'm not a SoundForge user), and includes a less extensive sample library.  It may not include the virtual amp modeling and affects suits, which we'd typically not use for what we are doing anyway.

I've recommended Reaper to many, based on it's abilities and very low cost, but have not used it myself.  At this point I have enough accumulated knowledge about Samplitude work processes that I feel switching to something different may be more painful than productive, and the $300 upgrade price from my current X (v11) license seems to the X3 Pro version seems reasonable when the inclusion of the  Izotope_RX-like Advanced Cleaning & Restoration Suite is figured in.  For new non-upgrade licenses, I think the standard version is currently $300 and the Pro version $600.  Not sure of cross-grade incentives.

It's Windows only.  The trail version I'm currently assessing has run fine so far on a Win10 machine.   I run my original V10 installation on a WinXP laptop.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 07:06:07 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline voltronic

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2016, 06:59:48 PM »
Ok, this will possibly sound like a stupid question because my mixing & editing  is not as advanced as you all.

So the question is I have 4-6 tracks recorded obviously and I want to bring them all together in one program, but each mic may or may not have picked up something I want to get rid of. Is there a way to repair all the tracks or select what I wish to work on.

Most of my work when I edit is cut & trim to take beginning dialog and end dialog out. Usually one set of mics may get overloaded so I work only on that track(s) But sometimes I need to clean up all of them at once. Like if I'm at a location or major event and there is another event going on next door. So I may pick up some muffled chatter. That being said, sometimes one mic picks it up more that the others & so forth. But I have found that if I just use a cutoff filter it thins out the gongs sound. So in past (which takes much longer) I clean up the worst tracks 1st, working my way to the better ones next then blend them in & clean up afterwards.

This can take hours upon hours.   :banging head:

Some audience is fine but talking or laughing really ruins the piece especially if from elsewhere leaking in.

So the questions are: do you combine & then repair or work separately. My ole' skool mind is still stuck in razor blades & block land (yes I still know how to do that). :smash:

Still learning processes in my spare time.

My typical workflow:

1. Foobar2000 - analyze tracks with the TT Dynamic Range Meter to get a .txt file showing peak and RMS values of each file.
2a. Audacity - limit applause or other non-musical peaks, amplify all tracks if necessary (by same amount) so that peak level of loudest track is just under 0 dB.
OR
2b. iZotope RX - Declick module for applause reduction, then Gain to raise track level if necessary.  (If I recorded a live concert with omnis then I typically need to do a lot of applause reduction, and RX does a better job.)
3. iZotope RX - Spectral Noise Reduction to reduce steady-state background noise.  Typically needed for most of my indoor recordings because of HVAC noise; usually not needed for outdoor.
4. Reaper - everything else
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Offline noahbickart

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2016, 01:58:58 AM »
How do I import 2 stereo tracks into a reaper project?

Do I have to separate stereo files to mono before importing?

Does anyone have a simple aud + sbd workflow for reaper they could share?
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Offline voltronic

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2016, 06:29:40 AM »
How do I import 2 stereo tracks into a reaper project?

Do I have to separate stereo files to mono before importing?

Does anyone have a simple aud + sbd workflow for reaper they could share?

Just drag and drop them in.  If you select two or more files and drag them in together, Reaper will ask if you want them starting at the same time on separate tracks or arranged sequentially on one track.  Nothing special has to be done with stereo tracks.  You'll just notice that in a mono track there is one waveform, while in stereo of course it draws two.  It's automatically detected; nothing for you to do.

As far as workflow, I recommend anyone using Reaper for concert recording take a look at the links I compiled below.  SWS Extensions and the workflow improvements they allow can save you a lot of time, especially when it comes to tracking and rendering.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174517.msg2199750#msg2199750
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2016, 08:48:22 AM »
I have mainly used WL for the last 12+ years or so, and sometimes use SF Pro to do the Resampling/Dithering with iZotope and that's it! WL does everything else! I've used CEP & Samplitude back in the day as well, and WL/SoundForge have always been my favorite 2 programs for editing audio! As always, YMMV! I've never used Audacity, but I am going to DL it and check it out soon, BUT, WL is my FAVORITE for 2 reasons!
#1 It can work with HUGE 24/96 WAV/BWF files UP TO 4GB! Unlike every other program out there that typically has a 2GB limit ;)
#2 Unlike some programs, WL has real-time editing, meaning that you can hear the changes in settings INSTANTLY, instead of having to save the file first before listening to the changes ;) When I need to EQ something, I want to hear it in REAL-time, without having to save it first!!! This is an awesome feature, and SF has this as well! I'm sure other high-end programs like WL/SF have this feature too, but I do remember someone saying that Audacity DID NOT have real-time editing. However, like I said, I've never used Audacity so I can't verify that as of right now!

Here's my workflow:

WL 6.11[You can add a lot of stereo tracks and align them individually with WL's "Audio Montage" if doing a Matrix]. But I use WL when I need to Matrix something, and add Fades + Gain[which is every set I tape] or  JUST when I need to Dither[using MBIT+] a 24/44.1 file to 16/44.1 ->>>
SF 10.0[JUST when I need to Resample + Dither a 24/48 or 24/96 file to 16/44.1] using iZotope 64-Bit SRC + MBIT+ Dither ->>>
CDWave 1.98[For Tracking & Cue Sheets] ->>>
Traders Little Helper[FLAC'ing/Level 8/Fix SBEs/Verify/FFP/MD5/ST5 & makes Torrent Files lol] yeah TLH does a LOT for me haha ->>>
MP3Tag v2.79[Tag FLACs] ->>>
.FLAC16 or .FLAC24 and BAM done 8)

If anyone needs a Trial Period exe for WL v6.11, just shoot me a PM! It's a 30-day free trial for WL v6.11 that isn't pirated or anything! So just hit me up if you're interested and you have Windows! It's verified to work on Win10 and the newest "Anniversary Update" FWIW so just LMK  :coolguy: >:D
« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 08:57:35 AM by F.O.Bean »
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Offline ScottT

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2016, 06:43:25 PM »
I've never used Audacity, but I am going to DL it and check it out soon

I posted this thread originally before I started using my 4-channel rig.  I tried a number of programs but never decided on any one in particular.

I attended two festivals the past three weekends so I finally have new 4 channel material to process.  Coincidentally, this week I had a used laptop fall into my - uh, lap - and I decided to put Linux (Mint) on it.  Audacity is available for Linux so I installed that, and figured I should put the program on my main Windows machine as well.  I spent quite a few hours last night working up a New Mastersounds set in Audacity, and I think I can make that program work for me.  None of the others I tried seemed as intuitive for the way my brain is wired.
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2016, 02:38:46 AM »
As you're on Linux (Mint), do yourself a favour and try Ardour (plus the free CALF and Invada plugin suites). Ardour v4 is in the official repositories for Mint / Ubuntu. The current version (v5) can be downloaded from the official website. It's pretty similar to Samplitude or ProTools. The only drawback I found so far is the timestretch / resample function which only lets you stretch the tracks visually (instead of defining some specific timestretch factor manually). The amount of features can be quite overwhelming for a newbie, but it's absolutely worth putting some effort in getting familiar with this software.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 02:44:23 AM by if_then_else »

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2016, 03:15:58 AM »
Reaper, hands down best for price.

Non destructive multitrack. VST host. Good bundled plugins. Free, uncrippled trial. $70 purchase price.

I've used Audacity, don't care for it. Own Soundforge, find myself in Reaper unless I need a pencil tool.

Nope. Audacity, at FREE, is better FOR THE PRICE, due to something called an ASYMPTOTE!
Audacity runs on mac/win/lin and is free as in FREE.

I do EVERYTHING I can in Audacity. At times, I've used legal versions of Protools project, Digital Performer, and presently have a legit version of SoundForge, but I choose to do whatever I possibly can in a free, open-source solution whenever possible.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2016, 08:06:16 PM »
Reaper, hands down best for price.

Non destructive multitrack. VST host. Good bundled plugins. Free, uncrippled trial. $70 purchase price.

I've used Audacity, don't care for it. Own Soundforge, find myself in Reaper unless I need a pencil tool.

Nope. Audacity, at FREE, is better FOR THE PRICE, due to something called an ASYMPTOTE!
Audacity runs on mac/win/lin and is free as in FREE.

I do EVERYTHING I can in Audacity. At times, I've used legal versions of Protools project, Digital Performer, and presently have a legit version of SoundForge, but I choose to do whatever I possibly can in a free, open-source solution whenever possible.

Seriously, an asymptote:lol:

Reaper or any other full-out DAW has far more capabilities as a multitrack recording / editing program, so you really are getting a lot more for the money you spend.  That said, I still use Audacity regularly.  I like to do limiting and global level adjustments on individual tracks there before exporting as a new file and popping into Reaper for all the actual editing.  Mostly because I find the big waveform view easy to work with.

Where Audacity quickly hits the wall in functionality for me is in a project where I need to do simultaneous edits on more than two tracks.  In Reaper, I can quickly drop markers, select multiple tracks at those marker points, split them all at that point, draw fades on all of them simultaneously, adjust the shape of said fades globally or individually for the sound I want, easily crossfade edit, automatically convert the markers to regions, which can then be auto-rendered out to tracks (see my earlier post about SWS extensions above).  Then there's the many other useful things you can do, like use snapping for selection points and aligning individual items, draw automation envelopes, customize the signal routing, create nested sub-mixes, etc.  That's just barely scratching the surface.  Audacity, great as it is, either cannot do those things at all, or makes them very difficult to do in a multi-track project.  Even making a simple mid-side matrix in Audacity is cumbersome.  If they would finally update the interface and put in a mixer view, that would help things.

The other big reason I need a "real" DAW is I do lots of MIDI sequencing projects, which Audacity cannot do.

So yes, Audacity is great for what it is, but it you cannot compare it to a full-featured DAW; it's not even close.  Now, if it does everything you need, there's no reason for you to look elsewhere.
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Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2016, 09:17:17 PM »

The other big reason I need a "real" DAW is I do lots of MIDI sequencing projects, which Audacity cannot do.

So yes, Audacity is great for what it is, but it you cannot compare it to a full-featured DAW; it's not even close.  Now, if it does everything you need, there's no reason for you to look elsewhere.

So lets not compare it that way! MIDI isn't particularly relevant to most of us.

AUDACITY is still the best entry product  - especially in a hobby where there's lots of guys who never made it beyond DAT>CD processes.

It's all you need for most rock band 4 channel efforts...and the perfect companion for todays 4+ channel recorders.

Its better than "good enough" - but it may not be "the best"

The fact that it functions -mostly- the same across various platforms expands the user/knowledge base.

One of the best of the old Open Source projects!

Once you start recording multi-track to PC (like more than 4 channels) - then a real DAW becomes mandatory.

But for traditional AUD+SBD or 2+2 AUD mixes - it has all you need.
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Offline SacredMetal

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2016, 08:09:52 PM »
Trying Reaper now

Ableton
Audacity from time to time

Was using Audition but switched to RX5 which after some time using it I am finding it much more robust!!! :headphones:
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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2017, 03:10:24 PM »
I use Nuendo 3.0 for multi-track mixing. Sound Forge is my preferred editing/mastering software, which can do just about anything you want to a two track audio file. The Clip Reduction plugin to Sound Forge regularly saves my butt when levels are clipped. I'm planning on upgrading my computer to Windows 10, and since Nuendo upgrades are really expensive, I'm looking at getting Samplitude Pro because it bundles Sound Forge with it. I tried Audacity, and was horrified at how crude it is compared to Nuendo. Also it doesn't include ASIO capability because ASIO is actually proprietary (written by Steinberg). You can recompile Audacity with ASIO support, but that's way to o much trouble. n-track is not much better. Reaper is sophisticated and by all accounts a good deal for $70, but I never liked how it does things. The problem is after you get used to one DAW program, in takes a big learning curve to change to some other DAW package.
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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2017, 12:29:37 PM »
Adobe Audition 3.0.1

Adobe gave it away for free a few years ago.  Still a rock to this day.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 10:09:53 PM by spyder9 »

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2017, 05:37:32 AM »
<snip>
Where Audacity quickly hits the wall in functionality for me is in a project where I need to do simultaneous edits on more than two tracks.  <snip>

I wonder if "grouping clips" is what you're wanting to do in Audacity? Couldn't be easier to deal w/several tracks at once.
Open Audacity Help and search for 'Grouping Clips'.

I use this often with mixing two or more tracks and it speeds the workflow a bunch. I also use Multitrack on single sources when I want to apply EQ, envelopes, dynamic processing... in one pass. Handling 2+gb files is also a big advantage of Audition... that and having picked it up free when it was offered.  There are other sites offering AA3.01 for free download. Fingers crossed... The Adobe site has shut down the original 2013 activation server.


« Last Edit: February 15, 2017, 05:39:26 AM by Ben Turnbull »
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Offline voltronic

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2017, 03:11:53 PM »
<snip>
Where Audacity quickly hits the wall in functionality for me is in a project where I need to do simultaneous edits on more than two tracks.  <snip>

I wonder if "grouping clips" is what you're wanting to do in Audacity? Couldn't be easier to deal w/several tracks at once.
Open Audacity Help and search for 'Grouping Clips'.

Never tried that - I'll have to check it out.  An example of what I'm talking about though is selecting multiple tracks, splitting them all at the playhead, and then drawing a fade in/out simultaneously on all tracks, or in some cases dragging the ends of one group of items from separate tracks onto the beginnings of others for a crossfade.  This is extremely easy to do in Reaper, and I imagine it is also in Audition.
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Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: What multi-track software are you using?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2017, 07:43:09 PM »
^ These  might help... If they're too fuzzy I can enlarge them a bit yet.  If you can't find the tool pallet with the group button on it (pic 2), CTL-G works as well, once you've selected the tracks to tie up. The last slide might seem to suggest that the fade is applied, reversed, at the other end of the file... not so. A separate mark and apply fade is required, but it fades in the opposite direction.

Cross fades are a large piece of cake, Huge in fact.
HTH... I have more.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 05:02:43 PM by Ben Turnbull »
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