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Author Topic: Reaper project loses sync on Render  (Read 2058 times)

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Offline Sloan Simpson

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Reaper project loses sync on Render
« on: August 14, 2016, 01:20:20 PM »
Wondering if anyone else has seen this and possibly knows of a cause/fix.

I'm mixing soundboard and audience feeds from last night, so two stereo files. I have a few VSTs running on each track and some on the master bus. None are delays. I've moved the soundboard track over with the Nudge feature until the time alignment sounds good. I render out my FLAC files (render details below), drop them in Winamp and the sources have been mixed down out of sync. I still have the session open in Reaper, so I went back to check the sync, and it still sounds great playing in Reaper.

Source files are 24/48, I'm converting markers to regions with SWS extensions, and using the Auto-Render to 16/44 FLAC with metadata included.

Any thoughts?
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Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2016, 01:31:54 PM »
Hmm, exporting a selection rather than regions seems to be working properly. Which is less than ideal, as I'd like to insert my markers in Reaper and render individual files instead of making a second pass in CDWave.
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2016, 02:42:22 PM »
I'm not a Reaper expert but I had a similar effect on Samplitude twice (both droney stuff). The tracks were aligned perfectly but the time-stretching algorithm made the rendered file go out of sync. Choosing "resampling" instead of "timestretching" solved the issue for me.

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2016, 03:16:43 PM »
I don't have a solution, sorry, but as a long time Reaper user I came here to give a major +1000 to using SWS extensions.  I only recently discovered them and they save a huge amount of time.
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Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2016, 05:06:32 PM »
I forgot to mention I wasn't doing any stretching, as the files were from the same device.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2016, 10:32:49 AM »
I don't have a solution, sorry, but as a long time Reaper user I came here to give a major +1000 to using SWS extensions.  I only recently discovered them and they save a huge amount of time.

I've just realized that using SWS extensions to convert markers to regions, then auto-rendering regions to output single songs is giving me tiny gaps between songs on playback that don't happen when I render a single file and split it with CDWave  :angry2: I was trying to eliminate CDWave from my workflow and do everything in Reaper.

Still no solution to my sync issue, other than that it doesn't happen on every session, and when it does happen, reopening Reaper/the session later fixes it.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2016, 12:53:42 PM »
I don't have a solution, sorry, but as a long time Reaper user I came here to give a major +1000 to using SWS extensions.  I only recently discovered them and they save a huge amount of time.

I've just realized that using SWS extensions to convert markers to regions, then auto-rendering regions to output single songs is giving me tiny gaps between songs on playback that don't happen when I render a single file and split it with CDWave  :angry2: I was trying to eliminate CDWave from my workflow and do everything in Reaper.

Still no solution to my sync issue, other than that it doesn't happen on every session, and when it does happen, reopening Reaper/the session later fixes it.

I don't think they're gaps; I think you're hearing a "tick" at fade out / in at your split points.  By default, when you hit "S" in Reaper to make a split, it does a very fast fade out at the end of the item on the left, with a corresponding fade in on the new item to the right.  You can disable this by going into Options > Preferences > Project > Media Item Defaults and unchecking "Create automatic fade in / fade out for new media items".

The other thing you can do is to split at the nearest zero crossing.  To do this, place your cursor and hit ALT+Z.  Then, just be sure you move your cursor to where that split was made (probably close by) and drop your marker.

To avoid this, you can use the "split at zero crossings" shortcut
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Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2016, 01:07:13 PM »
I don't have a solution, sorry, but as a long time Reaper user I came here to give a major +1000 to using SWS extensions.  I only recently discovered them and they save a huge amount of time.

I've just realized that using SWS extensions to convert markers to regions, then auto-rendering regions to output single songs is giving me tiny gaps between songs on playback that don't happen when I render a single file and split it with CDWave  :angry2: I was trying to eliminate CDWave from my workflow and do everything in Reaper.

Still no solution to my sync issue, other than that it doesn't happen on every session, and when it does happen, reopening Reaper/the session later fixes it.

I don't think they're gaps; I think you're hearing a "tick" at fade out / in at your split points.  By default, when you hit "S" in Reaper to make a split, it does a very fast fade out at the end of the item on the left, with a corresponding fade in on the new item to the right.  You can disable this by going into Options > Preferences > Project > Media Item Defaults and unchecking "Create automatic fade in / fade out for new media items".

The other thing you can do is to split at the nearest zero crossing.  To do this, place your cursor and hit ALT+Z.  Then, just be sure you move your cursor to where that split was made (probably close by) and drop your marker.

To avoid this, you can use the "split at zero crossings" shortcut

I haven't been doing splits, but rather pressing "M" to create markers, then converting the markers to regions. But perhaps your solution above will still work, as a region is probably considered a media item as well. I'll try it, thanks.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2016, 01:22:03 PM »
I don't have a solution, sorry, but as a long time Reaper user I came here to give a major +1000 to using SWS extensions.  I only recently discovered them and they save a huge amount of time.

I've just realized that using SWS extensions to convert markers to regions, then auto-rendering regions to output single songs is giving me tiny gaps between songs on playback that don't happen when I render a single file and split it with CDWave  :angry2: I was trying to eliminate CDWave from my workflow and do everything in Reaper.

Still no solution to my sync issue, other than that it doesn't happen on every session, and when it does happen, reopening Reaper/the session later fixes it.

I don't think they're gaps; I think you're hearing a "tick" at fade out / in at your split points.  By default, when you hit "S" in Reaper to make a split, it does a very fast fade out at the end of the item on the left, with a corresponding fade in on the new item to the right.  You can disable this by going into Options > Preferences > Project > Media Item Defaults and unchecking "Create automatic fade in / fade out for new media items".

The other thing you can do is to split at the nearest zero crossing.  To do this, place your cursor and hit ALT+Z.  Then, just be sure you move your cursor to where that split was made (probably close by) and drop your marker.

To avoid this, you can use the "split at zero crossings" shortcut

I haven't been doing splits, but rather pressing "M" to create markers, then converting the markers to regions. But perhaps your solution above will still work, as a region is probably considered a media item as well. I'll try it, thanks.

Well then maybe you've got the "ticks" because when it renders those regions as tracks, you aren't at zero crossings.

Most of what I do has the applause and other non-music stuff edited out, so I don't really run into this.  Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
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Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2016, 01:24:00 PM »
Just tried rendering regions with that setting unchecked, no difference. Oh well, back to CDWave most likely.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2016, 01:35:58 PM »
Just tried rendering regions with that setting unchecked, no difference. Oh well, back to CDWave most likely.

Did you try the ALT+Z zero crossing split?
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2016, 01:39:25 PM »
Just tried rendering regions with that setting unchecked, no difference. Oh well, back to CDWave most likely.

Did you try the ALT+Z zero crossing split?
I didn't. I'm not sure of the workflow with splits. I ended up using the markers-to-regions/auto-render method because everything else seemed to involve tricky selecting or something.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2016, 03:11:08 PM »
Just tried rendering regions with that setting unchecked, no difference. Oh well, back to CDWave most likely.

Did you try the ALT+Z zero crossing split?
I didn't. I'm not sure of the workflow with splits. I ended up using the markers-to-regions/auto-render method because everything else seemed to involve tricky selecting or something.

I do this all the time.  It's what I have to do because for my recordings I want a fade in / out at the start / end of each track, and fades can only be placed on the boundaries of an item (therefore needing the split).

1. Make sure snapping is enabled, but grid is disabled.
2. Create splits at the start and end of each track.  Adjust fades if necessary.  For tracks with fades, I use S for a normal split.  For continuous / gapless, this is where I'd suggest using the ALT+Z "nearest zero crossing" split.
3. Create markers at split points to mark track in / out.  If you used ALT+Z, zoom in close to make sure that your markers are exactly aligned to your zero-crossing split (snapping helps).

Then you can use SWS to create Regions from your markers, and then Extensions > Autorender > Batch render regions.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2016, 05:38:28 PM »
FYI, I just posted links to some very neat stuff using SWS Extensions to the Reaper Tips thread.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174517.msg2199750#msg2199750
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2016, 06:42:44 PM »
Just tried rendering regions with that setting unchecked, no difference. Oh well, back to CDWave most likely.

Did you try the ALT+Z zero crossing split?
I didn't. I'm not sure of the workflow with splits. I ended up using the markers-to-regions/auto-render method because everything else seemed to involve tricky selecting or something.

I do this all the time.  It's what I have to do because for my recordings I want a fade in / out at the start / end of each track, and fades can only be placed on the boundaries of an item (therefore needing the split).

1. Make sure snapping is enabled, but grid is disabled.
2. Create splits at the start and end of each track.  Adjust fades if necessary.  For tracks with fades, I use S for a normal split. For continuous / gapless, this is where I'd suggest using the ALT+Z "nearest zero crossing" split.
3. Create markers at split points to mark track in / out.  If you used ALT+Z, zoom in close to make sure that your markers are exactly aligned to your zero-crossing split (snapping helps).


Then you can use SWS to create Regions from your markers, and then Extensions > Autorender > Batch render regions.

Just gave this a shot and found that the soundboard and audience files are split at different spots when forced to zero crossing.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2016, 07:34:40 PM »
Ah, well yes that's bound to happen as the zero crossings won't be in the same places.  I didn't realize you had a mix going on.
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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2016, 09:01:42 PM »
Just tried rendering regions with that setting unchecked, no difference. Oh well, back to CDWave most likely.

Late to the party, but yeah, that's the answer. I loved working with Reaper up through the final render, but I had to track stuff out elsewhere (I used Audacity purely because I could easily set it up as gapless, but CDWave works). I screwed with it for weeks and gave up myself. :-\
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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2016, 03:16:20 PM »
I guess this could be the same issue as the one described in this thread on the Reaper forum.
There are a couple of suggestions, too. Probably worth trying out...

http://forum.cockos.com/archive/index.php/t-33130.html

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Re: Reaper project loses sync on Render
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2016, 10:53:01 AM »
Looks like those are something different. I think what's happening (when it happens: it's infrequent and not repeatable) is that timing is off when I'm working, but then is rendered the way it should be. I'm thinking this because when I've noticed this, it will sound in sync but visually the waveforms won't be aligned. The render is happening in the "correct" timing, but listening in Reaper before render is not. Whenever this happens, restarting Reaper had brought it back to proper operation. I guess the answer is that when it seems to take misaligning the files by visual cues to have the audio sound in sync, the glitch is probably occurring, and I need to restart and then try aligning the files again.
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