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Author Topic: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..  (Read 1848 times)

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Offline seethreepo

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Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« on: August 25, 2016, 12:26:54 AM »
http://theawesomer.com/making-soyuz-microphones/380726/


neat video. 

anyone ever run one of this companies mics? likely pricey based on the video.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 09:27:05 PM »
This video could have been a lot shorter if they had limited the number of times they used the word "special."

Seriously, this is pure myth-making. They call their microphones hand-made, then they gloat about their high-precision machinery from former weapons factories. There is just no logical sense here at all.

The video shows mostly the machining of capsule backplates. Why should it be better if the holes in the backplate are drilled "by hand" as they claim (although the video shows that they aren't--it is very obviously a motorized drill that they're using). Even if you stretch or suspend the definition, it's not as if they're (say) drilling and then listening, then drilling some more, or some other interactive process in which human perceptions might guide the process to a better-sounding result. Rather, they are trying to execute a specific design as precisely as possible (most of that design being not theirs, but Neumann's).

A computer-controlled drill is far more precise than anything human-guided could be. But they don't have a scale of operations that could justify the cost of such a drill, so they use a less costly, less automated method instead--then they romanticize that for the unwary. With nice music playing in the background, probably recorded with better microphones than the ones they make.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 11:29:02 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline cjc1103

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2016, 12:19:37 PM »
Dude, I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce. Most likely from hanging around forums like Gearslutz too long. Mellow out.
Chris

Mics: Microtech Gefell M300, 3-Zigma Chi HA-FX, Beyerdynamic MC930, Line Audio CM3 and OM1, AKG SE391
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Offline ~Jon Stoppable

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 04:41:30 PM »
Satz has been around like 30 years longer than Gearslutz.  You might want to get a vague idea of who somebody is before you talk trash four months after the fact  ::)

Offline obsidian

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2016, 05:15:39 PM »
... and what's wrong with Gearslutz?  I have been on that site and I get just as much great info there as I do here.

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2016, 12:07:31 AM »
Dude, I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce. Most likely from hanging around forums like Gearslutz too long. Mellow out.

oops
Recording:
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Offline kuba e

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2016, 10:36:35 AM »
Seriously, this is pure myth-making. They call their microphones hand-made, then they gloat about their high-precision machinery from former weapons factories. There is just no logical sense here at all.

Ha Ha. Yes, the machinery look like they have produced tanks with them and they are changing production to microphones now.

This is for those tapers who do not remember the Cold War: Russia was terrible in electronics or in the manufacture subtle things in civil field and military industry too. This disadvantage was partly balanced in the Cold War because they were good in the production of heavy machinery, nuclear field or for example in aerodynamics. And they are still good in these fields. Soyuz spacecraft still flying.

I don't know much about the microphones, but I noticed that the most important brands are from Germany and these companies have a long history - Shoeps, Neumann, AKG (exception from Austria), Sennheiser. Why was/is Germany ahead in comparison with the rest of the world? Because precision and talent?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 01:05:54 PM by kuba e »

Offline kuba e

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2016, 11:07:14 AM »
This video reminded me that I have a question about the diaphragm connection to the voltage. If I understood well according pictures, the large diaphragm is energized by joint in the center of the diaphragm. This connection must affect the movement of the diaphragm. I know that Mr. Neumann didn't make mistake, so only theoretical, why is not the voltage connected at the solid edge of the diaphragm?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 11:31:10 AM by kuba e »

Offline DSatz

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2016, 04:27:28 PM »
I can only say that the arrangement shown in the photograph is one possible way to construct a condenser microphone capsule--with the center of its diaphragm used as one of the points of electrical contact (thus forcing the center to hold still relative to the backplate--from which it is of course insulated by a spacer that you can't see in the picture), instead of using the edge of the diaphragm as the electrical contact and allowing the center to move more freely. (Please note the word "more" ...) It is neither a better nor a worse way of doing things.

Of course a diaphragm will vibrate somewhat differently when its center can't move. But the capacitance of the capsule will still vary, in general, proportionally to the excursion caused by sound energy that strikes it. And the diaphragm of a condenser microphone never moves very far in response to sound energy anyway--even when the center is more free to move (there's that relative word again ...) and the sound is extremely loud.

If you take just the diaphragm and the ring that holds it under tension, and separate it from the backplate and the rest of the capsule, you could tap the diaphragm with your finger and produce a tiny sound which would (if the diaphragm has been properly tensioned) have one main resonant frequency plus other, subsidiary resonances. But any finished capsule as a whole must smooth out ("damp") those resonances for the most part--otherwise the capsule would have only a narrow frequency range, and any sounds near its resonant frequencies would "ring" (= continue longer than other frequencies, even after the stimulus stops) each time they occurred in actual sound.

This is why there is always an air chamber behind the backplate, with holes drilled through the backplate to allow the space in front of the diaphragm to "communicate" with the space behind it--even in an omni (pressure transducer), where that rear chamber is sealed off from the outside world. The air behind the diaphragm thus undergoes some friction whenever the diaphragm moves forward or backward. The air has some springiness of course, and the tensioned diaphragm has some elasticity as well. But the friction limits and controls the motion of the air behind the diaphragm, damping the resonances to a very precisely determined degree across the frequency spectrum. The size and placement of those holes form a major part of what gives each microphone its distinct sonic characteristics.

In summary, a diaphragm should never be thought of as an independent "free agent" that is "allergic" to anything that might control or limit its motion. It has a specific role to play in the totality of the capsule's acoustic design, and it plays that role in a way that is greatly influenced--constrained--by the capsule's interior air spaces and passageways. So the center contact point is simply one more thing that limits the diaphragm's motion in this case. It has some effect on the result, but not as much as other design factors have.

--best regards

P.S.: Maybe the word "backplate" confuses people--in German the word is "Gegenelektrode" (= "opposite electrode") which expresses its electrical function alone. But its mechanical/acoustical function is not to be the "back" of the capsule as a whole; it's really more like the middle of it, in a front-to-back sense.

Backplates may also have indentations or grooves that don't go through to the other side. Such refinements contribute to the frequency and time-domain response of the capsule, again influencing the motion of the diaphragm by influencing the air motion in the space behind it.

--I've been describing capsules as if they always have only one diaphragm and backplate, whereas in many designs (though not in the kinds of microphones that I would say are are generally best suited for the kinds of recording that most people here do most of the time) there is a symmetrical arrangement of two back-to-back diaphragms and backplates. Such designs are more complicated in the way they work acoustically, but the basic principles are the same.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 04:38:12 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline kuba e

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2016, 06:02:06 PM »
DSatz, thank you a lot for your explanation, it is very interesting. I can imagine how many attempts had to be done before finding the correct thickness, tension of the diaphragm and the shape of the backplate. Is it possible to say very approximately how many resonance frequencies must be deal in the design of microphone capsule? Can we theoretically assume that the SD capsules have less resonant frequencies and therefore it is easier to design?

with the center of its diaphragm used as one of the points of electrical contact (thus forcing the center to hold still relative to the backplate--from which it is of course insulated by a spacer that you can't see in the picture)
I assumed that the electric contact is attached to backplate through some insulation spacer, but I was not sure.

I found a nice web page where it is explained through photos how LD capsule with two diaphragms is compiled. Your explanation of the backplate together with these photos is perfect. Maybe it will be useful for someone just like me:
http://www.audioimprov.com/AudioImprov/Mics/Entries/2013/2/19_K67_Capsule_Take-apart.html

« Last Edit: December 25, 2016, 06:03:38 PM by kuba e »

Offline kuba e

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Re: Making a Murderer err I mean Microphone ..
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2016, 11:13:03 AM »
I looked into the old electret capsule Primo. It's exactly as you described. I took some pictures of these parts. I made a new post for it to notice Nakamichi lovers too.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=180415.0

 

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