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Author Topic: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?  (Read 2758 times)

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Offline Modulo3

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Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« on: September 19, 2016, 11:56:43 AM »
Hello.

I've got a new Tascam DR-05 recorder. Since I'm new to recording it's possible I missed something about this in the manual. But I re-checked and still can't find a way to cut into a recording during playback. What I'm trying to do is simple to accomplish with an analog tape recorder: press the play button to review your recording; at any given point stop the playback; hit record to make a voice note (or whatever sounds you want), overwriting that length of the tape; then resume playback of the original recording.
I know this simple operation would require the PCM file on the DR-05 be split, a new recording spliced in at a point, erase the original recording starting at the cut-in time for as long as the new file lasts, then join the beginning of the original recording with the new recording, in turn getting joined with the end of the original. This might take up some resources but surely isn't impossible. Can I do it on-board the recorder without resorting to Audacity? If the DR-05 can't do this (behave like a regular tape recorder), then are there portable digital recorders that can?

Offline Sonus Captor

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 11:55:53 AM »
Hi Modulo3,

I don't know of any recorder with this function.

Offline boltman

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 01:34:55 PM »
You'd have to do this in a DAW.  No overdub on this shaver.

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 02:58:24 PM »
You'd have to do this in a DAW.  No overdub on this shaver.

If you install Firmware Version 2.00, you can overdub.

V2.00 additions
• An overdubbing function that allows the input and recorded signals to be mixed and recorded as a separate file has been added.

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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 05:09:12 PM »
@sonus captor @boltman
Thanks guys. It's what I was afraid of :(

Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 05:24:42 PM »
@dogmusic
Yeah, I looked into the overdub feature and that's not quite what I was looking for. I was hoping for a way to completely overwrite a portion of a file with a new recording as opposed to essentially mixing them together. It looks like the DR-05 doesn't have an overwrite feature at all.

@capnhook
Digital may hold many advantages, but flexibility in areas is sometimes lacking and this is a perfect example. Recordings are now enslaved to a filesystem, making seemingly simple tasks like this more difficult. I'll be looking to see whether there are digital recorders that can do this (I think some of the Marantz recorders might have this capability) although they come at a steep price. Tape might be relatively old hat, but it's flexibility comes from its simplicity. I'm considering making my next recorder an analogue one -- if I can find a 'pro' model at the right price. Cassettes rule :)

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2016, 07:27:31 AM »
@dogmusic
Yeah, I looked into the overdub feature and that's not quite what I was looking for. I was hoping for a way to completely overwrite a portion of a file with a new recording as opposed to essentially mixing them together. It looks like the DR-05 doesn't have an overwrite feature at all.

@capnhook
Digital may hold many advantages, but flexibility in areas is sometimes lacking and this is a perfect example. Recordings are now enslaved to a filesystem, making seemingly simple tasks like this more difficult. I'll be looking to see whether there are digital recorders that can do this (I think some of the Marantz recorders might have this capability) although they come at a steep price. Tape might be relatively old hat, but it's flexibility comes from its simplicity. I'm considering making my next recorder an analogue one -- if I can find a 'pro' model at the right price. Cassettes rule :)

Actually my reply was directed to Boltman who seemed unaware of the DR-05 overdubbing feature. You however want an INSERT feature, like on a cassette machine when you'd hit the record button during playback and get that nice THWAP! on your take.

Pretty soon you'll be haunting the paint stores, looking for single-edged razor blades.  ;D
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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2016, 05:49:35 PM »
Pretty soon you'll be haunting the paint stores, looking for single-edged razor blades.  ;D

Indeed :)

Offline kuba e

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2016, 06:00:15 AM »
Hi Modulo,
it is not exactly what you are asking. But maybe it would be useful for you to use the function Marks. I have tascam dr2d, but i suppose it will be the same with dr05.

You can add marks during recording. Then you can skip to the specific mark when playing it back. Or you can download marks to DAW. Marks are numbered, maximum is 99. You can write your notes on paper and attach to it mark ID.


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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2016, 07:35:49 AM »
I'm not sure the purpose of being able to rewind and insert/re-record a small segment of a recording???

With tape, that was a nice feature b/c media was limited in length.  With digital, length is almost no problem so recorder makers (I assume) built their new machines just record a new track to be inserted later with a DAW???

I'm one of the few that doesn't use Audacity (or any other real DAW).  I only use CDWave so cut tracks.  And I still use SHNTOOLs to "join" tracks together.  Its not as precise as Audacity, but is more so than rewind and re-record on cassette. 

I think if we knew more about what you were recording, and what you desire out of your end-product, we could figure out a way to get there...

Terry

ETA.  I'll play around with my HD-P2.  I do know you can "rewind" tracks for playback in the machine.  You might be able to re-record over a section...



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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 12:37:34 PM »
Hi Modulo,
it is not exactly what you are asking. But maybe it would be useful for you to use the function Marks. I have tascam dr2d, but i suppose it will be the same with dr05.

You can add marks during recording. Then you can skip to the specific mark when playing it back. Or you can download marks to DAW. Marks are numbered, maximum is 99. You can write your notes on paper and attach to it mark ID.

Marks are something I'm going to have to incorporate. I've only been recording for a short time, and one of the misconceptions I had about digital recorders is they could be treated like a simple tape machine. Still, I can't complain. Thanks for the suggestion, Kuba.

Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 12:57:32 PM »
I'm not sure the purpose of being able to rewind and insert/re-record a small segment of a recording???

With tape, that was a nice feature b/c media was limited in length.  With digital, length is almost no problem so recorder makers (I assume) built their new machines just record a new track to be inserted later with a DAW???

I'm one of the few that doesn't use Audacity (or any other real DAW).  I only use CDWave so cut tracks.  And I still use SHNTOOLs to "join" tracks together.  Its not as precise as Audacity, but is more so than rewind and re-record on cassette. 

I think if we knew more about what you were recording, and what you desire out of your end-product, we could figure out a way to get there...

Terry

ETA.  I'll play around with my HD-P2.  I do know you can "rewind" tracks for playback in the machine.  You might be able to re-record over a section...

You hit it right on the head: SD card media is fundamentally different from tape media: SD cards use a filesystem; they encode binary digits, not magnetic imprints; their capacity is huge in comparison to tape; etc. I need to accept things are done differently with SD recorders, even if it's not the way I would like.
To answer your question, what I had in mind was to tape street sounds in a random(ish) order (this is where the ability to FF or rewind, then cut-in at will come in handy -- think of what some people call a mash-up of sounds). I would use this soundtrack with various still images for an art project. But the randomness of being able to rewind the tape to an arbitrary point and record over is critical -- it's the cut-in points I'm after as a kind of juxtaposition of what might be entirely different landscapes.
I've thought about buying an audio interface with digital out so I can get the recordings from a tape recorder onto a computer. The inital medium (digital v. analogue) makes no difference to me. What matters is a machine that allows me do it (and is small enough to carry with me).

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 10:51:26 AM »
Plenty of small digital recorders have a file-split function built-in.  You simply FFW'ds to the spot in the existing recording where you want to insert the new material and split the existing file.

You can record a second file with the new material at any time.  After splitting the first file, you can either simply allow the two files to play back sequentially, by either simply making the new file the next thing you record (in which case the recorder names the new file sequentially), or by changing the file names so that the two files are alpha-numerically sequential in the list of all recordings in that directory of the memory card..  or you can re-join the two separate files into a single file again.  File joining and renaming are also a common function built-in to many small digital recorders.

You can do the same to sequentially play or rejoin to remainder of the original file after your "overwrite edit".  And the recording can either continue from the original split location with no overwriting of the original recording and only insertion of new material, or you can split the original file again at any point where you'd like to return to it, discarding the cut out portion and thus functioning exactly like "punching-in" and overwriting the original recording as you would with an analog tape recorder, except you have total control over how much if any of the original content is "overwritten" and you don't have to throw away the chopped out section unless you want to.

All the above can be done on a number of small recorders without transferring the files to a computer.
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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 12:48:42 PM »
Plenty of small digital recorders have a file-split function built-in.  You simply FFW'ds to the spot in the existing recording where you want to insert the new material and split the existing file.

Hello,
I referred to my Tascam DR-05 reference manual the moment I read your post, to see if my recorder can do just that. Sadly, it appears as though it does not have that capability (divide a file during playback), although it can split (a.k.a. increment track) while in recording mode. But it's the playback splitting I'm after.
Addendum specifically relating to the DR-05: The recorder doesn't add marks to a track when I hit record during playback; it just begins a new file, leaving the original unaltered and unmarked.
You say there are small digital recorders which can divide a file during playback, and can keep the first and last parts of the original, split recording... Could you please name a few? I wouldn't mind too much having a second recorder, but the budget is low ($400 or under).
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 01:20:30 PM by Modulo3 »

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 01:30:07 PM »
But it's the playback splitting I'm after.

Not sure which manual you have, but look up page 85 on the original manual, or page 83 on the REVISED version, and you will see the operation called "Dividing the selected file (DIVIDE). A recorded file can be divided into two at a specified position.".
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2016, 01:48:06 PM »
^There you have it.

Other manufacturer options-
Roland R-05 and R-09HR can divide, combine, rename, trim (divide and keep only the wanted portion), move and copy the files natively.  I think they can also convert WAV to MP3 natively.

Sony M10 can split files, not sure if it can join or rename them as well, but I think it can at least rearrange playback order.

Some Olympus recorders such as the LS-14 and LS-P2 can divide, trim, and erase sections of files.

And there are probably others as well.  Check their user manuals for details to confirm they'll do what you want.  I suspect the Roland R-05 may have more extensive file manipulation functions than most, so you might take a look at that one first if the DR-05 doesn't do what you need.
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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2016, 01:50:52 PM »
But it's the playback splitting I'm after.

Not sure which manual you have, but look up page 85 on the original manual, or page 83 on the REVISED version, and you will see the operation called "Dividing the selected file (DIVIDE). A recorded file can be divided into two at a specified position.".

I was aware of the file divide function, but it doesn't do the job I need: I'm looking for a punch-in/punch-out functionality, like on a tape recorder. The DR-05 can divide the file at a specified point, but doesn't offer the ability to insert a new recording at the point without doing too many key presses. Not to mention, the file is split into two sequentally named files, having an 'a' and 'b' appended to each segment. It doesn't seem to let me put recording between them, say a 'c' file. It's not that this sequence doesn't work , it just doesn't give me a quick way to really "cut-in" without resorting to Audacity. But you're getting close to what I want to do :)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 01:53:18 PM by Modulo3 »

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2016, 02:14:13 PM »
But it's the playback splitting I'm after.

Not sure which manual you have, but look up page 85 on the original manual, or page 83 on the REVISED version, and you will see the operation called "Dividing the selected file (DIVIDE). A recorded file can be divided into two at a specified position.".

I was aware of the file divide function, but it doesn't do the job I need: I'm looking for a punch-in/punch-out functionality, like on a tape recorder. The DR-05 can divide the file at a specified point, but doesn't offer the ability to insert a new recording at the point without doing too many key presses. Not to mention, the file is split into two sequentally named files, having an 'a' and 'b' appended to each segment. It doesn't seem to let me put recording between them, say a 'c' file. It's not that this sequence doesn't work , it just doesn't give me a quick way to really "cut-in" without resorting to Audacity. But you're getting close to what I want to do :)

Again, I was just responding to your not seeming to know that there was a divide file function on the DR-05 (ie., "playback splitting"), not to solve your particular problem, which is that you want an INSERT or PUNCH-IN feature.

You might check out the voice recorders which are made for dictation and could have some onboard insert feature. Or just get a cassette recorder and go Lo-Fi.

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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2016, 02:29:11 PM »
@gutbucket
The Roland R-05 looks nice (it can sample at 88.2 KHz, 24 bits), and the price is right. But the Zoom H5 (which I stumbled upon quite by accident) has a punch-in feature and voice memos. Despite its lack of 88.2 KHz recording, I'll likely go for the Zoom.
Thanks for the list :)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2016, 02:32:50 PM »
Personally, I'd not worry one whit about sampling rates faster than 48kHz.
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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2016, 02:33:26 PM »
You might check out the voice recorders which are made for dictation and could have some onboard insert feature. Or just get a cassette recorder and go Lo-Fi.

I seriously was thinking of going the low-fi route until I came across the Zoom H5 's specs. Seems to do exactly what I want it to. Thanks.

Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2016, 02:42:01 PM »
Personally, I'd not worry one whit about sampling rates faster than 48kHz.

I'll gladly take that advice. I'm aware that 48 kHz sampling is used in cinema (easily syncs to 24 frames of video per second), and I believe that's the audio quality (or some even multiple thereof) found on DVDs, but is there a reason to use it elsewhere? Can regular CD players now understand a 48 kHz @ 24-bits format? I know how naive this all sounds... I'm new to the wide world of digital recorders.
A bit off-topic: what about DSD (Super Audio CD) recorders? Is the sound all that much better with them compared with 44.1 kHz @ 16-bits?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2016, 04:16:05 PM »
48kHz is most common for video.  If combining with video that rate will be least problematic.  44.1kHz is CD compatible.  If burning CDs, recording to that rate will be least problematic.

Sampling rates can be converted on a computer pretty easily and with transparent these days, but if you record at the same rate at which the recording will be used, you simplify your process, make things easier, and introduce less potential for problems.

Recording at 88.2 or 96kHz consumes twice the storage space, and provides minimal if any real advantage.  Those rates simply record higher ultrasound frequencies above the range of human hearing.  Other than being a similar storage hog to high-rate PCM, the primary drawback with DSD is that it is not easily editable.  Some software can cut and fade DSD and that's about it. Usually it needs to be converted to PCM prior to any audio editing.  More trouble than it's worth to my way of thinking, and most listeners don't hear any significant difference.

The bandwidth capability of any analog cassette recorder will easily fit within 44.1kHz/16bit.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 04:18:38 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Modulo3

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Re: Tascam DR-05: Possible to cut-into recording at any point?
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2016, 04:31:42 PM »
48kHz is most common for video.  If combining with video that rate will be least problematic.  44.1kHz is CD compatible.  If burning CDs, recording to that rate will be least problematic.

Sampling rates can be converted on a computer pretty easily and with transparent these days, but if you record at the same rate at which the recording will be used, you simplify your process, make things easier, and introduce less potential for problems.

Recording at 88.2 or 96kHz consumes twice the storage space, and provides minimal if any real advantage.  Those rates simply record higher ultrasound frequencies above the range of human hearing.  Other than being a similar storage hog to high-rate PCM, the primary drawback with DSD is that it is not easily editable.  Some software can cut and fade DSD and that's about it. Usually it needs to be converted to PCM prior to any audio editing.  More trouble than it's worth to my way of thinking, and most listeners don't hear any significant difference.

The bandwidth capability of any analog cassette recorder will easily fit within 44.1kHz/16bit.

That's exactly what I was after. Thanks!

 

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