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Author Topic: IEM Antennas  (Read 2365 times)

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Offline buddyrich9

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IEM Antennas
« on: October 09, 2016, 05:15:01 PM »
Hi everyone,
       At the risk of starting up a flame war.  Ethics aside, I was looking to discuss peoples go to antennas for handheld scanners for iem taping.  I just bought a newer icom receiver but can never decide on my go to antenna.  Wondering what others preferences are.  I've actually heard the "800mhz" radio shacks are decent.  I'm also thinking about trying an actual body back antenna from shure, etc.  Seems like telescoping is in the majority.  Any tips tricks anyone wants to share?  Pm's welcome  :bigsmile:

Offline John Willett

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2016, 10:54:49 AM »
The main problem to doing this (other than the ethical one) is where the IEM system uses noise compression that is compressed in the transmitter and expanded in the receiver (eg: Sennheiser HiDyn or HDZ systems) where you will be recording the compressed signal with no way of expanding it back out.

Offline buddyrich9

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2016, 12:10:07 AM »
Interesting..  I see they also have more bandwidth and ranges vs the older units also.  I'm surprised Shure hasn't jumped on that band wagon.  I'll have to check one out I'd be curious as to how they sound.


Offline buddyrich9

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2016, 12:27:23 AM »
I only mention the RS 800 because I hear they work very well in the 400-600 range also in the 900's on those rare occasions. I've tried a bunch of antennas over the years but have recently gotten back into taping and figure there has to be a stronger method.  A lot of people seem to be using telescoping, which is also great for stealth.  I have a Watson 889 on the way.  I had a 881 which worked pretty good so this give me high hopes.

I also ordered a couple of the RA whips…  They'll fit the scanner w/out adapters and could be "field tunable".  Also, they claim not to fold in on themselves and pop right back straight which would work great for getting it into shows.  Has anyone tried one?  Is the reception any good?

Just curious as to what others setups are.  Anyone using dipoles or fins for mobile setups care to share?

Offline voltronic

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2016, 12:29:46 PM »
Maybe I live a sheltered life, but I'd never heard of doing this.  Are any of these IEM mixes any good from a concert listener perspective?
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Offline fsulloway

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2016, 02:06:00 PM »
the only ones I've ever heard sounded like crap and some even had a click track on them. Basically what you're picking up is an individual band members personal in ear mix. As you can imagine they're not very balanced. For instance the singer's mix is probably almost all vocals etc. I have heard a few halfway decent matrix recordings from U2 and I believe this used to be a big thing with Dave Mathews tapers back in the day.
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 05:49:18 PM »
I am listening to a decent one of the Rolling Stones from last Friday night that was done for kicks.  If done correctly (big if), mixed properly and matrixed with a good audience they are quite good.  Most of those do not make it into general circulation for obvious reasons.

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2016, 10:48:44 PM »
If you are talking about the hearing-impaired assist mix, that's probably going be a heavy on the vocals and key solo instruments, and very light on low frequencies.  It could be a useful source to mix with an audience recording with low vocals, but it will be very compressed and limited already, so a delicate touch would be advised.

 :shrug:
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Offline hoserama

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2016, 10:34:25 AM »
If you are talking about the hearing-impaired assist mix, that's probably going be a heavy on the vocals and key solo instruments, and very light on low frequencies.  It could be a useful source to mix with an audience recording with low vocals, but it will be very compressed and limited already, so a delicate touch would be advised.

 :shrug:

ALDs and IEMs are very different beasts. ALDs are typically just a mono soundboard mix with some EQ/limiting applied, whereas an IEM is artist specific.
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Offline 108 Ohms

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2016, 05:43:54 AM »
If you are talking about the hearing-impaired assist mix, that's probably going be a heavy on the vocals and key solo instruments, and very light on low frequencies.  It could be a useful source to mix with an audience recording with low vocals, but it will be very compressed and limited already, so a delicate touch would be advised.

 :shrug:

ALDs and IEMs are very different beasts. ALDs are typically just a mono soundboard mix with some EQ/limiting applied, whereas an IEM is artist specific.

Of course the compressed audio can be expanded, but it really would help to know the exact algorithm that was used, and the manufacturers ain't tellin'.

The post above nails the biggest concern, and that is that each IEM is meant to subtract the user's contribution to the mix.
I've heard some full-bodied, otherwise great sounding recordings of the Dead that may lack one drummer or the other, or perhaps lacks a guitar or keys.
There were stadium shows where I remember an occasional lot-rat with a scanner listening the shows which he didn't score a ticket for.

That was before digital radio, code and frequency hopping, and other security measures were used to secure the signals from illegal users and to prevent security radios, taxi radios, cellphones, CBers, etc. from jumping onto the mixes.


 
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Offline ~Jon Stoppable

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2016, 09:38:21 AM »
The post above nails the biggest concern, and that is that each IEM is meant to subtract the user's contribution to the mix.

Not usually, every musician wants something different but singers usually want plenty of themselves.

Offline hoserama

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2016, 08:23:17 PM »
Of course the compressed audio can be expanded, but it really would help to know the exact algorithm that was used, and the manufacturers ain't tellin'.

The post above nails the biggest concern, and that is that each IEM is meant to subtract the user's contribution to the mix.
I've heard some full-bodied, otherwise great sounding recordings of the Dead that may lack one drummer or the other, or perhaps lacks a guitar or keys.
There were stadium shows where I remember an occasional lot-rat with a scanner listening the shows which he didn't score a ticket for.

That was before digital radio, code and frequency hopping, and other security measures were used to secure the signals from illegal users and to prevent security radios, taxi radios, cellphones, CBers, etc. from jumping onto the mixes.

Well with ALDs, they intentionally apply limiting so that it just amplifies the quieter sounds (for the hearing impaired) but don't get blasted by the loud noises. Sucks for recording, but if done correctly it is helpful for the end user. With IEM, they do use compression/expansion as a form of noise reduction, and it's manufacturer specific.

They haven't transitioned IEMs over to digital signals yet, so no encryption going on yet. Adding another digital stream appears to add too much latency to the performers ears, so the technology isn't quite there yet.
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2016, 01:35:13 AM »
Handheld scanners don't work for me. Too much static and drift.  They are interesting to take to show to hear stage managers boss around people, lighting grips, and other stuff, but for serious recording, they don't work. 

My favorite was hearing the stage manager speak to Stevie Wonder during a show.  "Stevie, the next song is "As" and you have to move to your left to the piano.  Wait a minute, stop.  You're getting too close to the edge of the stage.  Mike can you get out there and escort Stevie to the piano?"

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Offline MJ

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2016, 11:57:30 PM »
I just bought a newer icom receiver but can never decide on my go to antenna. 

I have my own Icom receiver and a Shure antenna, which I do not use without help of my friend.  One thing I learned about IEM recording is that you should have a good antenna.
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Offline guitard

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2016, 10:19:46 AM »
My favorite was hearing the stage manager speak ...

I've heard some IEMs in which the stage manager gives the lead singer hints in between songs about what "spontaneous" banter he should use to intro the next song.  Something like:

stage manager:  "1975 third album"
lead singer:  "Alright.  This next one is from ninety-seventy .... something (looks at guitarist and asks) what was it '73 ... or '74?  Oh wait.  I remember now. It's from our third album that came out in 1975."
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Offline hoserama

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Re: IEM Antennas
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2016, 02:08:15 PM »
Aerosmith (or more specifically, Steven Tyler) is terrible for this. Steven gets prompts from stage manager before every song, and then has the first line of the song read to him for several tracks (including Walk this Way, which they've been playing for 35+ years).

I remember doing Aerosmith and dialing into the IEM feeds many moons ago. It was the final show of the tour and the last two shows were late added shows to original tour list. As such, they got a new monitor engineer for these two shows. The WHOLE show, you could hear the band just ripping the guy to shreds on the talkback mic. "We need the drums to be fucking CRISP! Don't you know what drums are supposed to sound like?!"

The best part was for the final song with Walk this Way. Right before the song starts, we hear crew talkback "Joe Perry guitar is down, repeat, no guitar, no guitar." They start the song anyways and when it comes to the signature guitar riff from Perry, you just hear Steve Tyler mime it under his breathe into the microphone. This goes on for two verse and then they finally got the guitar rig back up, although it still sounded messed up.

At the end of the show, Steven goes "Thank you Sacramento! It was a great show and a great night!" or something along those lines. These washed up rock stars couldn't wait to end the show and go on their winter break after that miserable show.

And that's some of the fun with IEM recordings that you'd never get with stealth microphone recordings.
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Antennas: Lots of those
Cables: Lots of those
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