Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...  (Read 999 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CorFit Chris

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Gender: Male
    • InsideOut Recording & Promotions
If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« on: December 29, 2016, 11:58:42 AM »
Ok, I have been posting lots of questions on this site lately as I have become very active taping this past two years, and I have received so much great feedback from many of you.  So first, I want to thank all of you for your time and input!  It is very much appreciated and has greatly helped open my understanding of the many considerations in achieving quality recordings. 

I am coming full circle regarding my next mic purchase.  As I have stated in a few other posts, I have an opportunity for a gift of new mics with a $2000 limit.  I currently have a pair of AKG 460's with CK61 cardioid caps. In looking for a compliment to these, I have contemplated multi-pattern LD's, Shotgun supercards, and regular hypercards.  I have also thought about just adding a preamp instead (SD USBPre 2). 

Now, I am thinking of going back to a more standard pair of mics as my foundational pair to suit my everyday recording.  Ultimately, I want to have a great small setup of dual pairs of actives.  Being that I don't currently have a single pair of actives, I think this may be my opportunity to get one.

Keeping in mind I already have ck61 caps that are easily turned into actives with the appropriate cables, and that I typically record indoors between 30-50ft from stage in smaller to mid-sized venues:
   1- What would you choose as the best compliment polar pattern (hypercards or supercards)?
   2- What would you choose if you were only recording with a single pair of mics under the conditions I mentioned above (cards, hypers, supers)?

Thanks
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline rocksuitcase

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
  • Gender: Male
    • RockSuitcase: stage photography
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 12:25:54 PM »
1] hypercards- as they will offer more flexibility. PAS, Din DinA, XY all will work within their known limits
2] of course, this is venue, artist, location driven- but my straight up answer is: NOT supercards.           ;D

If you really want actives, grab a pair of active cables and use your ck61's for now. Add a CK63 for your hyper option. Still way under $2k.
Don't forget, this way with both sets of caps, you'll still have the 460 pre-amps (sometimes called 'bodies'), so you could have one set of caps on the active cables and another on your 460 bodies. Therefore you will have 4 AKG caps to use at the same time.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG461/CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline CorFit Chris

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Gender: Male
    • InsideOut Recording & Promotions
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 01:14:49 PM »
1] hypercards- as they will offer more flexibility. PAS, Din DinA, XY all will work within their known limits
2] of course, this is venue, artist, location driven- but my straight up answer is: NOT supercards.           ;D

If you really want actives, grab a pair of active cables and use your ck61's for now. Add a CK63 for your hyper option. Still way under $2k.
Don't forget, this way with both sets of caps, you'll still have the 460 pre-amps (sometimes called 'bodies'), so you could have one set of caps on the active cables and another on your 460 bodies. Therefore you will have 4 AKG caps to use at the same time.

Where would I get new active cables for the AKG caps?  I don't have any external preamps, so would I need a Naiant PFA/IPA to power them and connect to my Tascam DR 680?
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline kindms

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4123
    • The Breakfast
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2016, 02:17:26 PM »
1] hypercards- as they will offer more flexibility. PAS, Din DinA, XY all will work within their known limits
2] of course, this is venue, artist, location driven- but my straight up answer is: NOT supercards.           ;D

If you really want actives, grab a pair of active cables and use your ck61's for now. Add a CK63 for your hyper option. Still way under $2k.
Don't forget, this way with both sets of caps, you'll still have the 460 pre-amps (sometimes called 'bodies'), so you could have one set of caps on the active cables and another on your 460 bodies. Therefore you will have 4 AKG caps to use at the same time.

Where would I get new active cables for the AKG caps?  I don't have any external preamps, so would I need a Naiant PFA/IPA to power them and connect to my Tascam DR 680?

tascam has P48 and will power the actives with a PFA. Im not sure who is still making the collettes for the active rigs these days. I suspect team akg would be a good place to ask.

1- complimentary mics. hmmm I guess if you mean what other caps should you have in your tool box I would answer hypers but to be honest i rarely ever run hypers (LD hypers is what I have) If you mean recording 4 channels and mix the ck61s with another set I would probably say omni's as they will blend well.

2- I would choose cards if I could only have 1 choice. to me I am going to run cards in 2 channel more often than not. I do think that  lot of my response is colored by not having hypers in the early going of my taping career and making do with the cards. i know lots of folks think the hypers are better suited for the narrow longer halls we find ourselves in from time to time.
AKG414 XLS/ST> TCM-Mod Tascam HDP2
Musichall Mambo > VR-2's

Offline rocksuitcase

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3671
  • Gender: Male
    • RockSuitcase: stage photography
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 02:36:07 PM »
1] hypercards- as they will offer more flexibility. PAS, Din DinA, XY all will work within their known limits
2] of course, this is venue, artist, location driven- but my straight up answer is: NOT supercards.           ;D

If you really want actives, grab a pair of active cables and use your ck61's for now. Add a CK63 for your hyper option. Still way under $2k.
Don't forget, this way with both sets of caps, you'll still have the 460 pre-amps (sometimes called 'bodies'), so you could have one set of caps on the active cables and another on your 460 bodies. Therefore you will have 4 AKG caps to use at the same time.

Where would I get new active cables for the AKG caps?  I don't have any external preamps, so would I need a Naiant PFA/IPA to power them and connect to my Tascam DR 680?
Sorry, I meant find a pair used. I'm not sure if anyone is still building them. Hopefully someone else can tell us if new ones are still to be had.
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG461/CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Online Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11239
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 04:11:39 PM »
Microphone pickup patterns which fall between cardioid and bi-directional (fig-8) are typically described as supercardioid or hypercardioidSupercardioid referring to a pattern which is somewhat closer to cardioid and hypercardioid to a pattern closer to bi-directional, at least in "ideal mathematical" geometric terms.  Yet regardless of how they are described by both manufacturers and users, the actual pickup pattern shape of most single-pattern SDs will typically land somewhere in between the two idealized geometric shapes.  Some will be more supercardish, and others more hyperish.  Most SDs in this pattern category tend somewhat more toward the supercard side of things, because that maximizes on-axis sensitivity versus the average sensitivity from all directions in combination, and that's a commonly sought out microphone trait to help minimize pickup of whatever the mics is not pointed at directly.  My point is that the described name of the pattern is not necessarily an accurate real-world description of the actual real-world sensitivity pattern shape, at least within such a small range.  It's more useful to compare polar response graphs (in combination the on-axis response graphs) when trying to get an idea of the differences in pickup behavior between two microphones rather than simply relying on their nominal pattern descriptions, especially when the pattern description is supercarioid or hypercardioid.  Check some polar plots you'll note that most SDs described as "hypercardioids" aren't really as figure-8ish as the term may seem to imply, or to the same degree as the "hypercardioid" pattern position of a switchable-pattern LD which offers more than two patterns within that range.

As an aside - because this kind of loose definition is so common, I tend to write "super/hypercards" when describing the use of any microphone which is more directional than a cardioid in mic setup threads at TS.

It's true that some electrically switchable LD mics (such as the AKG 414 you were considering) allow one to select between more than 3 standard patterns (omni/carioid/bidirectional).  Some have 7, 9, or more pattern positions available, allowing the user to choose between several patterns within that range.  In those cases, describing the selections between cardioid and 8 as cardioid verses supercardioid verses hypercardioid verses bi-directional becomes useful, even if the consistency of any one of those patterns across the full frequency range is likely to vary in shape more than it would with a good quality SD microphone.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Online Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (13)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11239
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 04:45:55 PM »
Quote
If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...

Most tapers forced to choose only 1 pattern would probably say cardioid, which is probably the right answer in general.  Some will say super/hypers and that's based on the conditions in which they find themselves most commonly taping.  Others will say omnis (or subcards), but that's probably the smallest group here.

I do think that  lot of my response is colored by not having hypers in the early going of my taping career and making do with the cards.
^
The history of each taper and the conditions in which they most commonly record will both be strong influences on their opinion.

And with that in mind, personally if forced to give up all my other microphones, I'd keep a two pairs of my miniature omnis.  That's partly because they are my most flexible mics, I can use them in ways I simply cannot use my other mics and do things to make them more directional when needed, and partly because I use them more often than any of my other mics given the conditions in which I record.  But I'm also sure my choice is strongly influenced by the way I started by using a single pair of omnis, and how I expanded my understanding and techniques from there.

If I were doing it again I'd buy the omnis again first, then a pair of super/hypers as my second pair and skip cards.  But that's a personally influenced choice, and makes the most sense for me based on how I prefer to use multiple mics in combination rather than one pair or the other.  If I typically only used a single pair, and recorded in different stuff, in different situations than I do now, and started with a pair of cardioids, I'd probably have a different answer.

Sorry, my last two posts are probably not much help, but are meant more of a note of caution with regards to advice.

volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations > virtual teleportation time-machine experience

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1570
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 04:54:58 PM »
^DPA 4061s were the first mics I bought that gave me the "that's how it's supposed to sound" response.  Tiny little omnis aren't for everyone and every acoustic, but they are certainly nice in the right situation.


Offline pohaku

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 785
  • Gender: Male
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 06:22:58 PM »
Is followinbob currently making AKG collettes and cables?  I see that he is asking for indications of interest in the Retail Space Forum.  Might inquire there.  With a set of AKG active cables, you would only need a set of Naiant PFAs to run them with your DR680.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, 788T SSD CL-8, lynx aurora 8


Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job!

Offline CorFit Chris

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Gender: Male
    • InsideOut Recording & Promotions
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 06:55:43 PM »
Is followinbob currently making AKG collettes and cables?  I see that he is asking for indications of interest in the Retail Space Forum.  Might inquire there.  With a set of AKG active cables, you would only need a set of Naiant PFAs to run them with your DR680.

Thanks
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/orithris
Mics: AKG 460 (ck61 & ck63) | Studio Projects C4 (cards & omni's) | CA-14 cards | SP-SPSM-9
Recorders: Tascam DR-70d  |  Tascam DR-60d  |  Tascam DR-2D
Preamp: CA Ugly
Camera: GoPro Hero 4 Silver

Offline obaaron

  • Trade Count: (42)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1016
  • Gender: Male
  • Wide Awake in San Diego!
Re: If you had to choose only 1 polar pattern...
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2016, 07:57:31 PM »
yes followinbob is still making them...contact Nick to order (schoepsnbox).  grab a set of ck63 hypers and youll be all set. can also grab a set of ck62 onmis for more flexibility as well.  Good luck!
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x | AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox x 2 | Tinybox | Shure FP24 | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 set, JW Mod AKG 460 bodies, AKG CK1x and 3x singles

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.201 seconds with 33 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company