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Author Topic: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?  (Read 2594 times)

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Offline MakersMarc

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90% running 4v>IPA or Nbox>m10 in my pocket. Thinking of a backup deck, kicking myself in the arse for not grabbing another m10. Not too thrilled with the Roland R05 line in specs, and really not too jazzed up by tascam DR05 or 07. Is there something else out there with M10 dimensions? I know the D100 is bigger due to mics, but If it is a hearable upgrade, I'd be inclined to go that way, since there doesn't seem to be a 4 inch alternative to m10 anyway. Thanks for your opinions!
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 12:35:53 PM by MakersMarc »
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Is D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2017, 11:51:33 AM »
Check out the Marantz PMD620 MKii.
Not sure where it stacks up compared to the others, but it sounds good to my ears.
And it's about the same size as an M10..  but battery life is not even close..  approx. 5hours on a pair of AA's I think.  But it can run on an external 5v battery with the proper cable.

......it more or less functions like the 661.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline beatkilla

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2017, 12:45:23 PM »
Sony PCM D-100 ....How can you go wrong.


24/192,DSD,optical input,independent L/R channel gain control,32gb internal storage,SDHC cards :coolguy::headphones:

Offline jbell

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2017, 02:43:31 PM »
I wish I wouldn't have sold mine!! 
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Offline mnm207

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2017, 08:56:40 PM »
jbell, don't fret--it's getting plenty of use and love.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2017, 10:49:48 PM »
Not sure how noticeable the difference between the Line In on the M10 & D100 is, but the D100 is badass for sure. It does have great specs for a handheld too. Maybe the best handheld specs out there? I just wish it was a little bit cheaper. But IMO, you can't go wrong with the M10 or the D100. The D100 is loaded with options too!
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Offline dogmusic

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 07:37:18 AM »
Not sure how noticeable the difference between the Line In on the M10 & D100 is,

I agree with Bean. The D100 is a fantastic recorder, but you may not hear that much difference if you're recording live bands. The line-in on the M10 is really good.

Perhaps you could still find a used M10 around. Or wait and see what Sony will be doing for a replacement of it.

The Tascam DR-100mk3 is also pretty good at around half the price of the D100.
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Offline jbell

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 02:21:21 PM »
Haven't seen any recordings posted!


jbell, don't fret--it's getting plenty of use and love.
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Offline mnm207

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 06:13:00 PM »
I'm using it mostly for a series of recordings in the NYC subways with Jonáš Gruska's Elektrouši "mics" with the intent of creating an installation piece from them. Nothing's online at the moment.

Some field recordings here: http://michaelmeyerphoto.com/project/ambients--here-and-there/. Everything since September is with your former d100.

Haven't seen any recordings posted!


jbell, don't fret--it's getting plenty of use and love.


Offline jbell

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 06:15:00 PM »
 :coolguy:  Glad it is getting out a lot!! 

I'm using it mostly for a series of recordings in the NYC subways with Jonáš Gruska's Elektrouši "mics" with the intent of creating an installation piece from them. Nothing's online at the moment.

Some field recordings here: http://michaelmeyerphoto.com/project/ambients--here-and-there/. Everything since September is with your former d100.

Haven't seen any recordings posted!


jbell, don't fret--it's getting plenty of use and love.
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Online MJ

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2017, 03:15:50 AM »
Hi

I recorded a Guns N’ Roses show a few days ago withSchoeps  MK4s>Nbox Platinum>SPLIT CABLES>>M10 (recording level at 4 on the dial) and D100 (at 5).  Here is the sample and maybe you find them useful to decide if you should go for D100 or not.

SampleA
https://soundcloud.com/thewallofsoundproject/samplea

SampleB
https://soundcloud.com/thewallofsoundproject/sampleb

I just named the recordings A or B to eliminate the placebo effects of the price differences.  You will know which one is which If you keep on reading this post.  So if you want to try to hear sound differences, please stop reading and take a listen.

D100 is the great recorder, probable the best deck apart from Sound Devices 700 series.  But I am not sure if you will think that D100 input line stage is significant improvement over M10s’because the line input on M10 is also pretty good. 

I bought D100 last month and started taping with it this month.  Some say that you can adjust M10 between 4-6 on the dial without any concern of attenuation or gain noise.  But every now and then I heard some wavering on the bottom and some harshness on the mid-high from my M10 recordings.  Not all the time but surely I noticed some unpleasantness when recording very loud or very quite show.  You might think that It is just my imagination or like my wife said “Only me or dog can tell the differences” but it did bother me to some degree.  So I bought and checked if I got what I needed or I just spent too much on some trivial improvement.

I will keep posting some more samples.

Take it easy
Koichi







Sound  Sample A   D100
Sound Sample B  M10

I just adjusted the volume to almost the same level.
Attached is the pictures of wave form just in case you want to SEE the differences.

Sound A / Sound B / All together
<Main Rigs>
Schoeps MK4s>(Nbox Active cables)>Nbox+ or Nbox Platinum>Izzy (Split) Cables>Sony PCM-M10 or Sony PCM-D100

<Sub Rigs>
(1)DPA4061s>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)>Church Audio Pre>(3.5 stereo mini+Canare cable + 3.5 stereo mini)>Sony PCM-M10
(2)DSM-6S/L>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)> Sony PCM-M10

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2017, 10:57:03 AM »
Koichi, thanks, very helpful. I thought A was the M10 and B a little tighter D100.  :hmmm:
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Offline spyder9

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2017, 12:28:24 PM »
Thanks for the upload.  I own both as well. 

The thing I noticed is the very tight bass, not exaggerated at all.  The music is more "in your face" than the M10 too.  Overall, it reminds me of a Lunatec V2's sound.  The Opti in/out are also nice additions, if that's what you're looking for.   

That said, the M10 is good for what most tapers want in a recorder.  The D100 is for someone who wants to step up their signature sound.  The D100 is not meant for everybody, but once you've owned one, you long for its return......   

       
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 12:32:37 PM by spyder9 »

Offline spyder9

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2017, 12:32:05 PM »
One thing I did notice, the WAV files of the D100 and M10 generate the almost exact shape. 

In this case, I used the same mics, preamp, and band to record.  Each recorder patched out of a Shure FP24.  I'm wondering if they share the same ADC.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 12:35:04 PM by spyder9 »

Offline Gunner

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2017, 01:15:53 PM »
Thanks for the samples MJ, I thought B was the D100 though lol


btw nice recordings, do you plan on uploading the full show soon?


Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 03:31:06 PM »
Is the D100 really cargo pocketable?
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Offline adrianb

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2017, 07:01:51 PM »
Thanks for the comparison MJ. If I say that I prefer the D100 sample, then it's very very marginal or even placebo. From experience, when using a seperate preamp I would always use the M10 in preference to the D100 because of its size. I've always considered the difference in sound quality between the M10 and D100 to be marginal when using the line-in. The extra money spent on D100, which is considerable, is heard from the internal mics and the preamp.

The 5v pip is also valuable when going mic-in, and I've often gone Church Audio mics straight in with no external power and never had any issues ... and since it fits in my jeans pocket I would say cargo pockets are no problem.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 07:03:25 PM by adrianb »

Offline spyder9

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2017, 08:16:11 PM »
Is the D100 really cargo pocketable?

Depends on the size of those pockets.  D100 is much bigger, heavier, and bulkier than a M10.


Online MJ

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2017, 10:59:20 PM »
Hi all
Thank you very much for interesting observation.  First of all, I used ONE Nbot Platinum connected with M10 and D100 by split cables…So the same preamp with different recorders.. Later I will post the picture of the gears.

It was very hard for me to put it but it might be correct to say D100 has more “in your face” or more upfront sound signature.  One thing I noticed is that D100 sounds really smooth.  IMHO, M10 sometimes sounds hash or wavering on either top-end or the bottom.  But as far as tight bass goes, I think Nbox Platinum is the major factor to that differences.

After everything I said on thread linked below,

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170199.msg2208469#msg2208469

I am inclined to believe that D100 has tight bass not because of recorders choice but because of Nbox versions’ differences.  Since regular Nbox or Nbox+ used “old school” preamps which consumes more battery power but gives them a “warmer” sound, you might have had that impression but take a listen to the Bob Dylan samples linked above.  I taped the two nights in a row at the same venue using the same mics with the same recorder from the almost same location (only a few seats away).  Once you listen to the samples, I am sure that you will get an idea.

To record a loud rock show, M10’s recording level was set at “4” and D100’s at “5 or even 6”.  D100 has more gain available, which gives us more chance to remaster it in the post.

If you have M10 already, maybe you do not have to get D100 but if you have a chance to use both of them, it would be cool to use DTS(32 bit) on D100 and 24bit on M10 as a back-up…  The size could not be the issue once you get used to it.  But if you try to use Preamps with M10 and D100, you would be ridiculed for your gigantic alien ass.

I will tape some other shows with Nbox+ very soon and will definitely share some samples here.

As for GNR’s recording, I will probable upload the whole recordings not very soon though.

Koichi
<Main Rigs>
Schoeps MK4s>(Nbox Active cables)>Nbox+ or Nbox Platinum>Izzy (Split) Cables>Sony PCM-M10 or Sony PCM-D100

<Sub Rigs>
(1)DPA4061s>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)>Church Audio Pre>(3.5 stereo mini+Canare cable + 3.5 stereo mini)>Sony PCM-M10
(2)DSM-6S/L>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)> Sony PCM-M10

Online MJ

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 09:44:14 AM »
Here is the picture of one Nbox with two recorders by split cables

Koichi
<Main Rigs>
Schoeps MK4s>(Nbox Active cables)>Nbox+ or Nbox Platinum>Izzy (Split) Cables>Sony PCM-M10 or Sony PCM-D100

<Sub Rigs>
(1)DPA4061s>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)>Church Audio Pre>(3.5 stereo mini+Canare cable + 3.5 stereo mini)>Sony PCM-M10
(2)DSM-6S/L>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)> Sony PCM-M10

Online MJ

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2017, 04:32:41 AM »
Hi
Here is another sample

I recorded a Journey two days ago with Schoeps  MK4s> Nbox + >SPLIT CABLES>>M10 (recording level at 4 on the dial) and D100 (at 5). 

SampleA
https://soundcloud.com/thewallofsoundproject/a-1

SampleB
https://soundcloud.com/thewallofsoundproject/b-1

I just named the recordings A or B to eliminate the placebo effects of the price differences.  You will know which one is which down the bottom of this post.





















SAMPLE A PCM-M10
SAMPLE B PCM-D100

Koichi
<Main Rigs>
Schoeps MK4s>(Nbox Active cables)>Nbox+ or Nbox Platinum>Izzy (Split) Cables>Sony PCM-M10 or Sony PCM-D100

<Sub Rigs>
(1)DPA4061s>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)>Church Audio Pre>(3.5 stereo mini+Canare cable + 3.5 stereo mini)>Sony PCM-M10
(2)DSM-6S/L>(terminated with 3.5 stereo mini)> Sony PCM-M10

Offline adrianb

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Re: Is Sony D100 line input stage a big improvement over M10 line in?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2017, 07:21:56 AM »
Definitely Sample B for me on this occasion, and I managed to avoid knowing which one was which before listening. You can pick out the crowd singing much more clearly on Sample B.

 

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